User talk:Omicron360

Re: Pierre Plantard Wikipedia entry

Hi. My name is Stephen Anderson and I recently learned about some sort of discussion about attributing me as a source for the Wikipedia entry on Pierre Plantard. I'm the editor of the Observer, the Journal of the Rennes Group. I am assuming that the controversy involved the part about Pierre Plantard attempting to show himself to be the Great Monarch predicted by Nostradamus. I wrote about this in an article in the Observer, a version of which appears on-line as "Pierre Plantard: The Great Monarch" at http://www.perillos.com/plantard_monarch.html. If the question is whether Plantard used the pseudonym Chyren (one of the Nostradamian names for the Grand Monarch), that point has been mentioned in several works before me. However, if it is a matter of showing that M. Plantard made a concerted effort to interpret several Nostradamian prophecies as if they referred to him, and actively sought to fulfill others to cast himself as this Grand Monarch, then I am not aware that anyone else pointed this out before I have, and I would prefer that credit be given, unless it can be shown that others have been there before me. Wfgh66 sounds like Paul Smith to me, someone in the Rennes community who seems to believe that anyone who disagrees with him in the slightest is totally wrong. If you read the article, you will see that it is well-researched with appropriate references, and makes no unverifiable statements. The article itself cannot be considered "fringe", though it deals with one man's belief in a fringe subject, it is NOT the opinion of this author. (In other words, I obviously do not believe that M. Plantard was the Great Monarch, or that any real Great Monarch exists, which should be clear from reading the article.) I consider myself a skeptic, and I believe Mr. Smith is making assumptions based on some articles written several years ago when I was new to the field, the same of which could be said of him as well, he having once been a believer. Submitted for your consideration, Omicron360 (talk) 23:10, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Hello Omincron. The dispute arose when I wrote that "Plantard had his hidden agenda was to use this hoax to build a cult of personality and cult of intelligence around himself in esoteric circles" based on the following passage in your essay:

“ I suspect that Plantard knew he would never actually be put on the throne of France, but the point was to be recognized by certain people, presumably certain esoteric types (as the average Frenchman would likely have never heard of the Grand Monarch), as the prophesied monarch (for whom it is not necessary to actually rule, and in fact mundane rule might have interfered with his actual aims!),(1) perhaps as a ploy to allow himself unlimited access to certain esoteric circles, which he could then command and perhaps actually achieve some real power, or find some esoteric secrets that actually meant something. Not a bad plan, actually.

In other words, he (like many occultists) wanted to find out what secrets the other occult groups were concealing, and that if they thought he even might be the real Grand Monarch, they would want to court him and reveal what they knew as inducements to get him to ally with them.

Why would anyone want to go to all this trouble? Because the esoteric scene is very incestuous. A lot of occult groups spend a lot of time worrying about what the other groups know and how to find out what they know. As a result, there is a lot of infiltrating, multiple memberships, and occultists starting their own groups to lure people in who might know something. The lure of secret knowledge has a very strong appeal. Therefore, few occultists belong to just one organization. They try to cover all the bases and join as many as they can, hoping that the new one is the one where they will learn all the really good secrets. It is a modern-day version of polytheism, where the ancients “hedged their bets” and joined all the mystery cults they could, and paid homage to every god, just in case. This inter-mixing allows for cross-pollination of ideas and accounts for some of the very strange bedfellows one sometimes finds.

Pierre Plantard realized that by setting himself up as Grand Monarch, he could bring them to him, and thereby bring together the scattered pieces of any great esoteric truths that might be held separately by different groups.

”

Since this is all speculation on your part and your essay cannot be considered a reliable source, I had to delete it. It's too bad because I agree with you. That being said, if you can find a reliable source that says the same thing you did, I will be glad to put my sentence back. --Loremaster (talk) 20:47, 4 November 2009 (UTC)