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Deletion review for Ravichandran C

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Ravichandran C. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. He is a very very notable person from my state, (Kerala, in India). Pls reconsider the action. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kannansivaram (talk • contribs) 15:33, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Draft; Raphael Roettgen

Hi Nomadicghumakkad,

A while ago, you reviewed this draft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Raphael_Roettgen.

You said that the article needed more external/independent references. I've done some editing in the past few days and added more independent/significant sources to the references, can you please check out if the article is suitable for Wikipedia now?

Thanks! LeoM0037 (talk) 12:17, 17 June 2021 (UTC).

Hey LeoM0037, give me some time to get revisit and get back. For ease, it will be very helpful if you can mention the new sources here. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 17:14, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi LeoM0037, I am not able to find any new sources that will help cross the notability mark. Can you help with WP:THREE? If that won't help, we will try to evaluate it at WP:BASIC since it is a biography. Also, what is your connection to the subject? You must make yourself aware with WP:COI and declare any conflict of interest that you may have with the subject. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 06:44, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Decline Draft

I want to appreciate you for taking your time to review the draft https://en.m.wikipedia.org/Draft:Kakofoni_Groups

I have made adjustments to it, please kindly peruse.i Looking forward to a positive outcome. Weldone sir... Epcc12345 (talk) 20:26, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Hello Epcc12345, I think it is still not there yet. It should qualify WP:ORG or WP:NCORP. I think the best way to make it less distracting to judge notability is WP:THREE. I would encourage you to read it and get back to me with your top three sources and we can discuss them. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 09:32, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for the feedback, I believe below

https://www.newtelegraphng.com/scottish-lottery-partners-kakofoni-group-to-promote-african-arts/

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2021/06/african-arts-in-scotland/?amp=1

https://independent.ng/kakofoni-group-promotes-african-culture-with-artworks/


reference should meet demands and also consider as well it holds the largest African art in Scotland, Uk. Looking forward your positive response and hopefully fruitful outcome / acceptance. High Regards• Epcc12345 (talk) 16:59, 17 June 2021 (UTC)


Hello Epcc12345 , I seemed to have miss this one. Please give me some time to get back. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 06:54, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi,Nomadicghumakkad Ok. thank you once again.Epcc12345 (talk) 15:41, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Hey Epcc12345, so I read through these. I feel that most of the content here is inclined towards Johfrim Art and Design and the subject is coming only as an announcement in connection to Johfrim Art and Design and hence missing WP:CORPDEPTH. But, that's just my opinion. I would encourage you to go to WP:TEA to have a broader opinion from other community members. I myself refer to WP:TEA whenever in doubt since it has seasoned editors willing to help you out. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 09:26, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Draft:Smallcases

Hi. I remember you reviewed this page I created so I thought I will come to you for help. It was moved to drafts because it was not ready and it looked like advertising. Can you help me fix this? Can you also advise on other pages like Draft:Shahed 121 and Draft:Financial Services Commission (Jamaica)? Aloolkaparatha (talk) 15:18, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi Aloolkaparatha, thanks for reaching out. I will need some time to get back on this. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 17:19, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Hello Aloolkaparatha, phrases like Also, compared with Portfolio Management Services where there is a minimum investment amount of Rs 25 Lakhs, smallcases don’t have any minimum investment. can be considered advertorial. It reads like you are trying to say that this is superior than the other. The article also doesn't give a very balanced view on the subject and can be considered slightly partial. You can rewrite certain portions and then it should be okay for mainspace. I must also ask if you have any WP:COI with this subject or any other. If yes, please declare so. For Draft:Shahed 121, is is written a bit out of context. The lead should talk about the subject first and then the related incidents should follow. Like the other editor said, it needs a structural overhaul. For Draft:Financial Services Commission (Jamaica), this is written better than the other one. But again, some structural and language improvements can help a lot. An editor has marked it as a promising draft which means it has good potential. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 06:53, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi, plz check the pages. I have modified them as per what you said. And to answer your other question, I don’t have any COI with any topics I am writing about. Aloolkaparatha (talk) 17:33, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi Aloolkaparatha, Looks okay to me. I think it will be best for you to first create articles in draft space and then move them to mainspace. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 08:03, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

On nabbing COI

As a follow up from this conversation, I came across this article and opened an AFD here because of the obvious non notability, now please take a look at the article closely, I mentioned to you to read WP:ADMASQ if you haven’t done so, you can do that now, assuming you have done so, can you spot the COI in the article? Celestina007 (talk) 23:30, 17 June 2021 (UTC)


Hey Celestina007, thanks for this assignment! The first thing is the picture! It was told to me by another experienced editor sometime back. It is uploaded by same person who has created the page. Second, the user name of this person says they involve in web development and copywriting services. Third, the creator and subject are from same city. Fourth, the creator has written ethnicity but the IMDB source given doesn't have ethnicity. So how did they get to know about this information? It is also reading very advertisment like since they are saying they are founder/CEO of non-notable company. Mentioning profits like this also is problematic. Also His tweets are often featured in news media articles showcasing biotechnology and US politics.. What else I am missing? Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 06:40, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Good job. You are on the right track lad. Celestina007 (talk) 19:05, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
I see the ability to detect COI was what caused you to lose your npr temporal rights if you promise me by that you aren’t a bad faith editor I don’t mind teaching you the basics. If you are really interested in anti UPE. Via email I can teach you some tricks. Celestina007 (talk) 19:46, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for the encouragement Celestina007! I don't think any bad faith editor would invest painfully long number of hours to respond to each and everyone and help with whatever knowledge they have. I promise I carry no bad faith. I have not used emails before. Will check how it works and ping you back. Sorry for delayed response. I have a backlog of messages to respond to that need lot of attention and reading. Also struggling to archive my talk page. I decided to steal the code from Hatchens (another editor I admire) but it's not loading properly. Can also be my bad internet. Anyhow, will soon touch base again. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 10:15, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
Nomadicghumakkad, stealing code is not prohibited... :-). Let me check it out for you. - Hatchens (talk) 15:03, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
Hey Hatchens , I think the code loaded finally! And many threads on talk page disappeared. I just don't know where did they vanish! Please check whenever you find time. Sorry for bother. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 06:55, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
Nomadicghumakkad, the code seems to be ok. But, archive pages are not visible. Not an expert but let me check and update. - Hatchens (talk) 16:31, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

Request on 14:01:09, 21 May 2021 for assistance on AfC submission by Philbutler


Hi. First of all, thanks for your efforts in reviewing this entry for Shiji. I am at a bit of a loss as to what more I need to do.

Please, I have cited a great many sources. Much of the information about this hotel services group is in Chinese from the early years, so not as easily researched as other similar organizations. I added a few new sources by staff writers as opposed to contributors at media like Forbes, per previous suggestions.

Looking at the hotel groups I used as examples, my Shiji sources are more numerous and higher ranking than those at for Wyndham Hotels & Resorts, and others. As another for instance, Holiday Inn, a much older organization, is sourced using press releases from IHG.

If you could please suggest, I am doing my best to become a better Wikipedia editor.

Thanks very much for any assistance, I know how busy everyone is. Philbutler (talk) 14:01, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Philbutler (talk) 14:01, 21 May 2021 (UTC)


Hey Philbutler , thanks for reaching out. The quantity of sources don't matter but the quality does. My sugestion would be to first read properly WP:NCORP and after that give me WP:THREE. It will help us first understand if the subject is notable or not and then we can do rest of the things. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 17:47, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you Nomadicghumakkad, I so appreciate this. There are so many worthy subjects out there, it's always been a goal of mine to do more here. I will follow your lead on this Shiji page. Philbutler (talk) 07:59, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Dear Nomadicghumakkad, Thanks for the help and the opportunity to provide the three top sources. I am sorry it took me so long to reply. The first source is by Forbes staff writer Russell Flannery concerning Alibaba's huge investment in the Chinese conglomerate. [1]

The second source is Wall Street Journal staff writer Katy Stech Ferek discussing then President Donald Trump's demand that Shiji sell-off of recently acquired StayNTouch Inc. [2] This was an unprecedented presidential order and made many of the mainstream headlines.

Finally, this Shiji deal assessment by PhocusWire editor Kevin May is an independent analysis by one of the travel technology industry's most respected experts. [3] I included this last one because top-tier mainstream media does not typically do the far-reaching analysis of technology companies like Shiji. Particularly not Chinese companies. The hospitality news space traditionally covers almost all industry news.

Again, thank you so much for your help on this page. I will continue working per your suggestions. Philbutler (talk) 06:59, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Hey Philbutler, thanks for bringing these here. Give me some to get back. 09:20, 19 June 2021 (UTC)


Hey Philbutler, here are my thoughts:

  • [4] - Definitely interesting. My challenge is that it is more focussed on the founder. There is surely some commentary on the company and there is an independent take on it. I am leaning towards counting it as first of (probably) many but might want to take a third opinion before fully committing to it.
  • [5] - this one is not really focussed on the company and there is no independent opinion or analysis of the company. Being in controversy such as this is helpful but not sufficient enough to qualify for WP:NCORP
  • [6] - The focus is on deal and what it means for Airbnb and for Shiji. So I have a feeling this won't qualify either.

That being said, my gut says that this is a notable company but we might have to work a little harder to find right sources to establish that. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 07:43, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

Thank you Nomadicghumakkad, I see what you mean now that I can correlate your advice directly with the guidelines. I appreciate your help on this. I am limited in time, even though I am semi-retired, but all this will help me be a better editor of more interesting subjects. The problem with this company, and many others, is that the media no longer devotes that much time to deep analysis, even for industry leaders like Shiji. I will continue searching. Hopefully, I can find some deeper description/analysis of the company. I just thought it strange that one of the world's biggest (maybe the biggest) data services giants is not here.

Again, thanks for all your help.Philbutler (talk) 14:16, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

No problem Philbutler. I am here if you need help. I will also try to find some time to check if some other sources exists. Sometimes books.google.com is very helpful to find coverage that is not otherwise in media. 14:21, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Decline of Draft: Vyla Rollins

Hi as per your comment about WP:Academic Vyla would fall under: 3. The person has been an elected member of a highly selective and prestigious scholarly society or association - "is an Associate Fellow of the British Psychological Society, and a Fellow of Royal Society of Medicine and a Member of the Association of Business Psychologists."

Regarding the "This submission does not appear to be written in the formal tone expected of an encyclopedia article." I shall look into this further and edit where possible. Yikmo21 (talk) 15:12, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Hello Yikmo21, thanks for highlighting this. Can you also provide evidence that these societies elect their fellows or members since the emphasis is on election. Also, please remove all unsourced material. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 15:15, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

How is it that so many, of those seen in Category:Fellows of the Royal Society of Medicine do not say exactly how they became a member/fellow etc. Also looking at the other criteria does "5 The person has held a named chair appointment or "Distinguished Professor" appointment at a major institution of higher education and research (or an equivalent position in countries where named chairs are uncommon)." also be relevant with the role of Executive Director within the London Business School? Yikmo21 (talk) 15:34, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Hey Yikmo21, I would advise you to read WP:OTHER and not make arguments that are based on other pages. Still, to clarify, those others might be getting their notability from somewhere else AND might be a member too. I don't know how they are chosen, so please read this argument in that light and context only. I don't think ED is equivalent to a distinguished professor. ED is a more administrative role from what I know. There is also C7 which says highest administrative position holders are notable. Is ED highest at LBS? Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 15:39, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

ED is the highest within Leadership Institute part of the LBS, I am not sure if this counts but if you look at ranking under the UK seen Lists of academic ranks UK then one could argue that it is equivalent and Vyla would be considered as chair and as LI is both research and teaching it could be concluded that it is equivalent. Yikmo21 (talk) 16:38, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi Yikmo21, C7 would work if she was top administrative head of entire university and not a particular department. I don't think we can draw the conclusions that you are drawing. Also, I would like to invite you to WP:TEA for a broader opinion on this. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 17:22, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Review of Rory Sutherland

Thanks for reviewing this draft. The stated reason for AFC decline was that the subject has not shown significant coverage in reliable secondary sources. Three of the sources are long-form articles, significantly about this subject, all reputable publishers with sound editorial policies. Irish TimesWired MagazineLondon Times. My impression is that these definitely meet the standard required for notability in a biographical article. Could you kindly advise how you have applied the standard? --Salimfadhley (talk) 09:23, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Hello Salimfadhley, thanks for reaching out. We all can make mistakes (not saying I indeed made a mistake here). My thoughts below:

  • [7] - I find this very interviewish (like many others cited). This definitely has some content that is independent view of the writer of this article and can count towards WP:BASIC. But I don't think it contributes to WP:GNG.
  • [8] I don't understand what this longish write up is. From what I understand, the subject wrote this. So it has no value for WP:GNG or WP:BASIC.
  • [9] I need subscription to read the full piece but my sense is that it is similar to first. Interviewish. May count to WP:BASIC

All of this with an assumption that all three are reliable sources (which seems to be but I have not done any investigation). Please feel free to present more sources and we can discuss. I am also obliged to ask your relationship with the subject. Can you please help us and clarify on that? Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 15:06, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Yes, the paywalled article is also an interview. I have a copy, but I see your justification now. I'm sure I will be able to find some more articles that aren't interviews. --Salimfadhley (talk) 16:13, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
Thank you Salimfadhley. I am happy you were able to see things with my perspective. Also, reminding to clarify your relationship with the subject. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 16:21, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
I have no commercial connection with this subject. I did work for the company of which he is currently vice-chairman from 2018 to 2000, it was my first job straight out of University. During my employment at Ogilvy I met him a bunch of times because he was a senior manager in the London office where we both worked At the time he was the head of creative for Ogilvy London, and I was a nobody! He left a very good impression on me. I have not worked in marketing (or a related field) since 2002. Let me know if you have any questions and please advise as to what disclosure may be necessary. --Salimfadhley (talk) 17:56, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
Hey Salimfadhley, thanks for clarifying. I think this should be sufficient for now. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 11:48, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Declination of Ronnie Jupiter

Hi Nomadicghumakkad, I am MarkieC07. I am inquiring regarding the declination of a recent draft I created, Ronnie Jupiter. For the record, I believe Ronnie is a musician with enough notability to be included on Wikipedia, according to the criteria stated on this page (guidelines on the notability of music-related topics). If you look at under the section "Criteria for musicians and ensembles", there are several criteria that were satisfied. Here are my arguments below:

Criteria 1: Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself. This criterion includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, books, magazine articles, online versions of print media, and television documentaries except for the following:

  • Any reprints of press releases, other publications where the musician or ensemble talks about themselves, and all advertising that mentions the musician or ensemble, including manufacturers' advertising.
  • Works consisting merely of trivial coverage, such as articles that simply report performance dates, release information or track listings, or the publications of contact and booking details in directories.
  • Articles in a school or university newspaper (or similar), in most cases.

Argument: If you look at the references I provided, there is a reliable newspaper article source I provided: https://www.thesundaily.my/style-life/entertainment/ronnie-rocks-on-GJ7856383 (Reference 3). This article was published by The Sun (Malaysia), a newspaper brand in Malaysia. If you look closely at this article, you can easily see it's a reliable source fulfilling the criteria.

Criteria 9: Has won first, second or third place in a major music competition. Argument: According to this source - https://www.nst.com.my/lifestyle/groove/2018/04/359830/showbiz-ronnie-crowned-fly-fms-flydol-2018-champ#:~:text=KUALA%20LUMPUR%3A%20Flydol%20Ronnie%20won,FM's%20Facebook%20Live%20on%20Thursday (Reference 4), Ronnie won champion in the Flydol 2018 singing competition, a competition hosted by Fly FM, a Malaysian radio station. This is a major competition as Fly FM is a notable, national-level radio station. Additionally, this article was also published by New Straits Times, a reliable newspaper article, again fulfilling Criteria 1.

Criteria 10: Has performed music for a work of media that is notable, e.g., a theme for a network television show, performance in a television show or notable film, inclusion on a notable compilation album, etc. (But if this is the only claim, it is probably more appropriate to have a mention in the main article and redirect to that article. Read the policy and notability guideline on subjects notable only for one event, for further clarifications). Argument: In 2019, Ronnie performed If I Ain't Got You by Alicia Keys in Asia's Got Talent, a notable network television show. Here is the source, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiI9CkG5SUA which I also included in Reference 1.

Considering all these criteria mentioned above, I strongly urge you to review the draft thoroughly again and accept the submission. If you think my arguments are not valid and the draft needs to be declined again, kindly state clear reasoning where I was wrong in mentioning the arguments above in my talk page. I wish you have a good day ahead. MarkieC07 (talk) 17:34, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Hello MarkieC07, thanks for reaching out. This is definitely a new area for me. Your detailed note here will be very helpful for me to re-review this. Thanks again for that. Please give me some time to assess again. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 12:19, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Hey MarkieC07, so I did a recheck. Let's cover it one by one.

  • I don't agree that Flydol is a major/notable competition simply because Fly FM is notable. Notability can't be inheritied. So any or every show that is being streamed at any notable channel should not become notable automatically.
  • I don't think they include reality TV shows for Criteria 10. This way, hundreds of people coming in hundreds of singing reality TV shows will become notable. Asia's Got Talent is a reality TV show. Also, if this becomes true, criteria 9 would start to lose meaning. What's the point of C9 if C10 will cover everyone singing at TV reality shows?

Hi Nomadicghumakkad, sorry for the extremely late reply, I was busy with my other errands. Thank you for your clarification, I appreciate it. Regarding Criteria 9 and 10, what you said makes sense, but I will reach out to WP:TEA soon for additional feedback. I would appreciate it if we could adhere to Criteria 1 together to achieve the minimum requirements for notability to be included on Wikipedia, so here are some additional articles I had found on the web. (Do note that all the articles are written in Malay, so you could use the translate function on the web browser to read them in English).

Article 1: https://says.com/my/seismik/ronnie-jupiter-asia-s-got-talent

This article was published in Malay by Says Sdn Bhd, a Malaysian news website. The English title is "Get Three 'Yes', This Sabahan Boy's Song Captured the Jury's Heart in Asia's Got Talent!"

Article 2: https://www.sabahpost.net/2019/02/15/ronnie-tambat-hati-juri-asias-got-talent/

This article was published in Malay by Sabah Post, a popular news portal in Sabah. The English title is "Ronnie Tethers Jury's Heart in Asia's Got Talent".

Article 3: https://sintoknews.com/nyanyian-merdu-jejaka-sabah-menawan-hati-juri/

This article was published in Malay by Sintok News. The English title is "Sabahan man's melodious singing captivates the jury".

Also, regarding what you had mentioned here: For WP:BASIC, we need more than 7 or 8 links. Can I confirm that this is true again, as I do notice some biography pages on Wikipedia such as Peter Bence and Costantino Carrara, only had around 3-4 sources but managed to get their Wikipedia page. May I know the reason why?

Lastly, I had tried my best to search for these additional articles about Ronnie on the web, so I hope we could work together to achieve the minimum requirements for Ronnie to be included on Wikipedia. Have a good day ahead. MarkieC07 (talk) 17:01, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Hello MarkieC07. I have been away for a while and hence couldn't respond earlier. Thank you for bringing these local language sources in light. I always feel that we miss so much here because there is a language barrier. Would it be okay if I take some time to translate these articles and read them? Thanks for your patience. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 10:03, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Hey MarkieC07, [10], this seems to have some merit if we can establish that this is a reliable source. [11], this one seems to be a rewrite of previous one honestly. Same goes for last one [12]. I would like to take an opportunity to remind you that sources should be intellectually independent of each other. If they are talking about the same thing but in different language, they can't be considered separate sources. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 09:44, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Hey Nomadicghumakkad, no worries at all regarding the late reply as we all have our important errands. I've noted the latest issue and will keep that in mind. So, would you say Ronnie is notable enough to be included on Wikipedia according to Criteria 1, with the sources from The Sun (Malaysia), New Straits Times, the video from YouTube, as well as the recent source from Says Sdn Bhd? If they're good, I'm hoping it could be accepted (it's alright if it remains unverified), and I would continue to add on articles in the future to increase the notability. Ronnie is a growing and very well known musician in Malaysia, so I believe within the next few years his notability would increase - would it be fair enough for now? MarkieC07 (talk) 10:38, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi MarkieC07, The Sun Malaysia was not considered a reliable source. See the discussion here [13]. [14] This is only an announcement of winning. There are only a couple of lines on him. Can work for WP:BASIC. [15] - Again, can count for WP:BASIC since it is full of quotes that he is saying and not him being discussed by the source. I think we should wait out. He is surely a promising singer and is likely to get more coverage in coming time. And if he wins Asias Got Talent, he would anyway qualify for WP:NMUSICIAN. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 07:52, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi Nomadicghumakkad, thanks for getting back again. I appreciate your help and politeness regarding Ronnie Jupiter's draft these while. Unfortunately at the moment, I think that's all the sources I could obtain from the web. Ronnie did not win Asia's Got Talent 2019, but he's currently very active in Malaysia's music industry so I'm sure there would be more reliable articles written about him as time proceeds. It is also fair enough of you to inform other reviewing editors regarding our entire discussion here, so regardless of not the draft is declined again, I would accept it for now. Meanwhile, would it be good if we continue to work on this topic as time proceeds on, as in I would continue to update new sources here, and you would check to make sure they're reliable, to improve the notability criteria for Ronnie Jupiter? MarkieC07 (talk) 13:29, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Hey MarkieC07, the only objective to inform other editors was to save their time so that they don't do the same analysis that I did here. It didn't mean to influence their view or opinion or reject. Good faith needs to work both ways. Yes, please do. I really appreciate that you have not decided to give up and leave the project. I also hope you will make contributions beyond this subject to the Wikipedia project. I am here to help and give you my two cents whenever needed. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 17:06, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your wise words again Nomadicghumakkad. I would like to write about another Malaysian musician next. I had navigated through the web and found quite a several articles written about her. Being able to contribute to Wikipedia is my pleasure and I would begin the draft in the next few days and would be happy to work with you regarding any improvement or notability criteria. Thank you once again and have a nice day. MarkieC07 (talk) 19:17, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Draft:Zane Smith (musician)

Hello. I have a question about the Zane Smith article you just declined. The artist's music notability satisfies criteria requirement 1 of the Notability (music) guidelines "Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself.[note 1]"

The latest article added to his DRAFT page is a newspaper publication by the Atlanta Journal Constitution. Both web and print articles are independent, reliable and considered significant coverage unlike previous sources which are verifiable but not as significant as this newspaper interview. — Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])

Hello, can you present those sources here? Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 02:42, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Rajat Verma

Hello Nomadicghumakkad, Rajat Verma article was created by me (via ip, 1,2 months ago I logged into this account of mine, due to forgot password). I got this article reviewed by an NPR @CptViraj: and its main title was Protected by Administrator @Ohnoitsjamie: from making the article. I made it with the consent of both. So I request you to transfer it back to article space. –– 𝚅𝚁𝙹𝙱𝚊𝚗𝚍𝚑𝚞 07:53, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

I will wait for your reply! If your answer is no, I'll move it back myself. –– 𝚅𝚁𝙹𝙱𝚊𝚗𝚍𝚑𝚞 07:57, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Hey 𝚅𝚁𝙹, I don't think this is meeting WP:NACTOR in it's current state. You can surely move it back to mainspace; no one can stop you from that even if there is a difference of opinion. However, if you are moving it into main space without establishing how it qualifies WP:NACTOR or WP:GNG or WP:BASIC, it can be nominated for deletion via AFD. So just work on it more so that it is ensured that guidelines are met and hence there is no risk of deletion. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 10:32, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

@Nomadicghumakkad: Thanks for your opinion. I have already given my opinion in the above talk. So I'll move it back to the article space. –– 𝚅𝚁𝙹𝙱𝚊𝚗𝚍𝚑𝚞 10:58, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Draft:Yalgaar (film) is notable

Hi, I had check the page again and I had found that there are some sources that prove the page is notable. So please review again and check references of the page. Thanks KungfuPanda2008 (talk) 18:36, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

Hey KungfuPanda2008, while it seems to have a list of notable actors, I couldn't find evidence that would fulfil WP:NFILM. Adding some reviews will do the trick. Or, providing enough evidence that this meets any other criteria of WP:NFILM. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 02:38, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

You can see the 1st reference of this page. Which is about the film and published by The Times of India, which is a reliable source. KungfuPanda2008 (talk) 11:13, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Hello KungfuPanda2008, one is not sufficient. You need at least three! Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 16:02, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Okay, I will find. KungfuPanda2008 (talk) 16:04, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

You are advancing and have successfully entered into stage two

Please read this pedantically. ~ Celestina007 (talk) 23:18, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

Oh my, thanks for thinking of me as worthy of this. A perfect read with the morning coffee. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 03:10, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

Celestina007, what I conclude from reading this is that apart from checking what we have discussed already for UPE, COI etc, we also need to keep a look out for spam links or other spammy activities which are not necessarily the entire article but hidden in it. This will include check of any and all the links provided as external links or used as references. What else I am missing? Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 16:34, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
@Nomadicghumakkad, indeed, asides upe, there is spam proper, which is the inclusion of websites into multiple articles for the purpose of promoting that website. Furthermore, you are correct, both references and external links could be used for spamming see WP:REFSPAM and WP:ELSPAM. Celestina007 (talk) 20:21, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Draft:TM (motorcycle manufacturer)

With all due respect you have not been thorough with your assessment of the subject article. A simple google search for "TM motorcycles" will show that TM is well known throughout the motorcycle industry and internationally. See the following articles about their products: Canada, United Kingdom,USA, Californiaas well as many product reviews TM MOTORCYCLES FOR 2021, Dirt Bike Magazine, Enduro 21, TM supermini. While i'm aware that FaceBook is not considered a reliable source, the fact that there are pages for almost every country regarding TM motorcycles indicates that notability is not in question. This article is about a well known company. Two of the three references within the article are from published, 3rd party reliable sources: Dale Spangler of Dirt Rider Magazine and Jim Harmer of Dirt Bike Planet. The third reference is the company history from TMs own web site in Italy translated into english.

The purpose of creating the subject article is to provide a stub as a target for all the internal links throughout wikiproject Motorcycling linking to TM (Motorcycle manufacturer). Please refer review of this draft article to someone with wikiproject experience having to do with motorcycles. If another editor wants to expand the article with descriptions of products there is ample opportunity. That is not my focus, this article is exactly what I intended it to be, a stub. -- Cdw ♥'s ♪ ♫(talk) 04:39, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Hello -- Cdw ♥'s ♪ ♫(talk) 04:39, 29 June 2021 (UTC). Thanks for reaching out. The article in it's current state is not suitable for mainspace because the source it has. Would you be able to add the sources you are mentioning here at the page and I will have another look? It is important that we use reliable sources to establish notability. Hope you will understand. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 06:43, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Regarding Draft:Gopinath Ravi

Hi Nomadicghumakkad,

Hope you are doing good and safe. Thanks for spending your time to review my article.

This is my article Draft:Gopinath Ravi https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Gopinath_Ravi

You have declined this draft. But I feel he is notable person and have enough citations for that.

He is famous model and actor. He won Mr India 2021 title in a famous pageant Rubaru Mr India and acted in a movie. He is going to represent India in Master of Misters pageant in USA. He is famous personality in instagram. Many top newspaper published about him. Also he appeared in most of the news channels & recent trending in many famous youtube channels too.

Citations: Many Newspaper company who are all have verified page in Wikipedia published about him such as Deccan Chronicle , The Times of India, The News Today (India) , Dinamalar

1) http://epaper.deccanchronicle.com/epaper_main.aspx#2489028

2) https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/tamil/movies/news/i-had-to-hit-prabhudeva-sir-with-an-iron-rod-for-my-first-shot-in-the-film-gopinath-ravi/articleshow/83283852.cms

3) https://newstodaynet.com/index.php/2021/04/12/tn-man-wins-mr-india-asia-pacific/

4) https://m.dinamalar.com/cinema_detail.php?id=96959

And still there are more citation about him which I have mentioned in the article.

If I'm correct, I request you to recheck the article.

Correct me if I'm wrong and clarify it by giving clear explanation please.

Thanks in advance. Kamesh Aravind P (talk) 17:14, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

Hello Kamesh Aravind P, thanks for your message and note. My thoughts below:

  • Mr Rubaru is not a notable pageant so winning that doesn't give much.
  • WP:NACTOR says Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions.. I don't see how any of the roles done so far are significant.
  • All sources are either announcements or interviews. I am not seeing any source that actually discusses his work as an actor. Hence, they don't contribute to notability

I would suggest to find more sources that discusses him and add those. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 06:47, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Request on 05:14:50, 24 June 2021 for assistance on AfC submission by Spacetake4345


Hi Nomadicghumakkad! Got your message on the first article page. I read the COI policy on Wikipedia after you asked me to. Talking about my connection, I don't know him personally nor I get anything in return to create this article. I believe, this guy happens to be a healthcare industry personnel in Chennai and I have interest in healthcare sector. So, I am finding healthcare topics to write on wiki. Anyways, please guide me on my first article.

Spacetake4345 05:14, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Hey Spacetake4345, thanks for clarifying. To get clarity on notability, can you present the three best sources that are in accord with WP:GNG? You can read WP:THREE for more guidance on which three to choose. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 10:20, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Thanks for your response. As u asked, I believe there are few articles which I thought are reliable sources, those are


please check this one.


So far, we have got the Entrepreneur source for WP:BASIC and TOI for WP:GNG. Surely need more. Would you like to present any more? Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 16:48, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

Found this one - which I think has good coverage but not sure if this will fit for notability. - https://asiaone.co.in/dr-gsk-velu/ this one too - as I read the secondary source of wiki - do u think this will help? https://indiamedtoday.com/ambassador-of-republic-of-estonia-visits-maxivision-eye-hospital/

This link covers all his positions - why I shared this because there is editorial dignity in this source. - https://www.theleadersglobe.com/magazine/trivitron-making-advance-healthcare-accessible/

Check this one too - https://telanganatoday.com/maxivision-to-clock-rs-200-crore-revenue-next-fiscal

This is an interview taken by the editor, which matches to Wikipedia editorial dignity. Still, need your review, https://mediexpose.com/dr-gsk-velu-health-news-et-healthworld/

and this entrepreneur one - http://entrepreneur.wiki/GSK_Velu


Hello Spacetake4345, as opposed to what I thought initially, this might have some value. Please give me time to analyse what you have presented properly and get back. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 16:06, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi Spacetake4345, none of the sources from the new set that you have provided seem to be reliable. Telangana Today is more of a company announcement and is not in-depth in relation to the subject since the subject is only making statements. I would also like you to invite to WP:TEA and post there to have a more broad and diverse opinions on it since my view could not be 100% correct. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 06:50, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Further response Uday Phadke

Dear Nomadicghumakkad

With respect, Uday Phadke is not primarily an academic, but an entrepreneur, which is why, for instance, he was appointed Entrepreneur in Residence for several years at the Judge Business School, Cambridge University. So your suggestion of academic referenced publications doesn't really help. What I can do, I think, is provide more evidence of the significance of business community interest and engagement with him as an expert and the Triple Chasm model, which has given rise already to two books, to be followed later this year I believe with a third. Jeter1956 (talk) 09:11, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi Jeter1956, okay, please do that. Also, you didn't answer about your question on what's your connection with Uday. And, please don't start a new section whenever commenting and you can just add below the last thread. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 09:34, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Dear Nomadicghumakkad

I will add the other references. Please also see my reply to you on June 7 where I set out my connection to Uday Phadke, which you have possibly overlooked. Jeter1956 (talk) 17:17, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Hey Jeter1956, consolidating my thoughts here. Almost all sources given and searched nudges us towards him being academic. I don't see any sources that will help him qualify WP:GNG or WP:BASIC. If we are trying to evaluate his notability as a businessperson, we will need to see sources that discusses his role as a businessperson and provide a detailed commentary on his work. I feel, WP:Academic is the right route to evaluate notability for this subject. As per WP:Academic, one of the ways to satisfy Criteria 1 is Criterion 1 can also be satisfied if the person has pioneered or developed a significant new concept, technique or idea, made a significant discovery or solved a major problem in their academic discipline. In this case it is necessary to explicitly demonstrate, by a substantial number of references to academic publications of researchers other than the person in question, that this contribution is indeed widely considered to be significant and is widely attributed to the person in question. The Triple Chasm Model might fit this definition since it seems to be an original concept. Now, if we are able to prove that Triple Chasm Model is significant and is attributed to subject, we should be good to go. [16], I see Triple Chasm being mentioned repeatedly on GS which is a good sign. But, all these papers have Uday Phadke as a contributor. Since the criteria says by a substantial number of references to academic publications of researchers other than the person in question, the subject is failing to satisfy it. If you can demonstrate that Triple Chasm Model is being referred by other academics frequently, we would be good to go. And, like I always say, WP:TEA is where you can get more advise from other editors who are much more seasoned. So feel free to reach out there. Will be good if you can tag this thread of ours there so that others can know what has been discussed and established already. Sorry for missing your response to COI issue. I missed seeing it. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 09:40, 19 June 2021 (UTC)


Dear Nomadicghumakkad

I have added further references as I said I would to validate Uday Phadke's role as an entrepreneur. As I have explained, his primary focus is not academic but technology based innovation and entrepreneurship. I believe I have provided a substantial number of references to support this (many more than many biographies contain), and do not have any COI constraints. Please review them further and let me have your comments. I think your suggestion to open a discussion on TEA may be a sensible step if you feel we require further guidance.

Jeter1956 (talk) 17:47, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Hey Jeter1956, since you insist, rather than going through all sources again and figuring which ones are new, can you provide WP:THREE here? Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 17:18, 22 June 2021 (UTC) Dear Nomadicghumakkad

The three that I would pick are references 2, 20 ,22 which are all third party, highly respected institutions that validate Phadke's status as an innovation expert, and give us good reason to provide an account of his innovation paradigm, which students and entrepreneurs have found to be powerful and instructive. Jeter1956 (talk) 14:21, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

  • [17] - This is profiling. Most probably, the content is provided by subject or related people. Not independent.
  • [18] - same as above.
  • [19] - ET carrying a PTI release. Neither independent nor in-depth.

I think you need a crashcourse on WP:IS & WP:RS.

Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 06:56, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Regarding Draft:Rolf_Engen

Hello, Nomadicghumakkad,

I am new to Wikipedia, so I am still becoming accustomed to the processes and general approach here. I went through the Rolf_Engen article and made adjustments per your request regarding tone, peacock terms, etc., and I have added citations where they were listed as 'needed,' as well as to other components of the article.

Is there anything else I can do to improve this further? Thank you for your assistance and guidance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Christopheraweed (talk • contribs) 20:30, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Hello Christopheraweed, maintaining NPOV was a starting point. I will recheck in a bit. But we are still not certain on notability part. I would request you to present WP:THREE. It means three best sources that contribute max to notability. Once we assess that, we can sort other things. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 12:10, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

-

User:Nomadicghumakkad - thank you again for your help guidance on all this! - it's extremely helpful -

Understood, and please do let me know if there is anything else I can do to improve the neutrality or formality of the article.

As to notability: the subject here (Rolf Engen) is certainly a bit of a legend, particularly in the US professional volleyball community. Top 3 sources are difficult to select/discern, but I would mention A) the International Volleyball Hall of Fame (https://www.volleyhall.org/rolf-engen.html); B) USA Volleyball, which is the US national governing body for the sport (https://usavolleyball.org/story/volleyball-legend-rolf-engen-passes-away/); C) certainly the LA Times, which features pieces on him over the years relating to his work for the 1984 Olympics and other area achievements (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1991-10-25-sp-329-story.html); D) WineBusiness, which is the largest North American wine industry publication (https://www.winebusiness.com/news/?go=getArticle&dataId=201676); E) Volleyball Magazine (https://volleyballmag.com/engen-080218/); and more.

Indeed, many of his contemporaries (many of whom had far less of an impact on the game) are already in Wikipedia, and I've already cited some of them as well, including with quotes about Engen, e.g. Rudy Suwara (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Suwara); Al Scates (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Scates); Eugene Selznick (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Selznick); and Rolf Engen is already referenced on the Volleyball Hall of Fame Wikipedia page, but has no operative link for lack of a dedicated article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volleyball_Hall_of_Fame). He's also referenced on the Hawaii Rainbow Wahine page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Rainbow_Wahine_volleyball), and elsewhere.

Anyway, I hope this all helps - again, please let me know if I can do more to improve this article for Wikipedia's standards.

Thank you!

Hey Christopheraweed, thanks for bringing this to my notice. My thoughts consolidated below:

  • WP:NSPORTS is not a criteria I am overly familiar with and exploring it. But as I notice, WP:NCOLLATH says Were inducted into the hall of fame in their sport which seems to be the case here. So yes, as per this criteria, the subject is notable to be included on Wikipedia
  • Ideally, there is no need for further investigation and we can start cleaning up to meet WP:NPOV and WP:VER. But, I still would want to state that none of the sources you cited seem to be very reliable apart from LA Times
  • I would suggest that you ensure that none of the content here is unsourced and all advertising language is taken care of and ping me. I will look at it and accept it.

Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 10:18, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

User:Nomadicghumakkad - thanks again - I went through it again a couple times over the past week or so, added more citations from LA Times and OC Register and a couple other sources, and cleaned up the language, tone, and phrasing. As always, let me know if there is anything else I can do to improve or clean up the piece further. Thank you

Hey Christopheraweed, I still feel this has WP:NPOV concerns. See below for example:

  1. Engen was often called the face of fine wine in southern California for the six decades during which he was most active You need to quote it verbatim from which publication is saying it. You can't draw conclusions yourself.
  2. Engen was later a founding director of El Dorado Bank in Tustin - subsequently acquired by Commerce Security - which he helped to supervise for twenty-five years Very generic statement when you say 'supervise' and 'help'. Does the source say 25 years?
  3. Engen began to develop other wine businesses later in life, developing and filing patents for various wine tools, dispensers, preservatives, and services, including Wine Bar Dispensing Machines, Wine Life Preserving Spray, Vin Air Airline Wine Dispensing, Winequest Kiosk Wine and Food Pairing Recommendations, Compu-wine Wine Style Icons, Wine Consultant for Paragon Restaurant Group, and Ambassador for The Progressive Wine List Are you sure all these items are given in the source?
  4. With the success of the first store in Tustin (later expanded in 1956) Who decided it was successful? What does success mean?

Are you getting my drift? All such generic statements need to go. It has to be truly factual and only what's written in the sources can be written here in your own words. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 04:40, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Rotten Tomatoes

Hi! I saw you tell someone that RT can't be used to establish notability because it's user submitted content. This is both correct and incorrect, to be honest. The basic gist is this:

  • The audience score cannot establish notability and generally shouldn't be in the article unless there's a lot of coverage about said score. The reason for this is that these are the reviews and ratings that are submitted by random users. It's fairly rare that these would merit being included in the article. I think that Saving Christmas is one of the rare few times that an audience score is usable.
  • The critic reviews that make up the tomatometer generally can establish notability. The reason I say generally is because while the critic reviews typically will be considered RS on here, there are some critics who aren't considered RS. While the reviews are user submitted to a degree since the reviewer wrote them and has a profile on the site, they're in a much different category than the user reviews. The reason for this is that while anyone can be a random user on RT, not just anyone can have their reviews contribute to the official tomatometer.

My personal recommendation is when notability tends to hinge on a RT link, that you first take a look at the link. If the reviewers look to be RS on here (such as Film Threat, Eye for Film, Jackie K. Cooper) and if there's enough of them, you could consider the link as contributing to notability. If the reviewers look dodgy, you're unsure, or if there are no reviews, ask them to expand the section to have more information than just the tomatometer. If it's just that you want them to expand the section in general, you can ask for that as something that needs to be done before the article is completed. The basic gist though, is that RT can be used to establish notability, it just depends on whether there are critic reviews and who those critics are. It's a weird little dynamic, so I just wanted to pass that along. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 14:20, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

  • It's one of those "Yes, but technically no" type of situations. The reason I wanted to pass it along was because it's relatively common for people to just put down the RT link, as they don't want to write out the full reception section. There's more about it here. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 14:22, 30 June 2021 (UTC)


OMG ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡)! Thanks for your kindness to drop at my talk page and inform me about this crucial information. This definitely will help me future work. And I am also sorry for being ignorant and making assumptions about RT. Will keep this in mind from now on. Yes, Wikipedia is full of riddles but when you closely look, they actually make a lot of sense. I am always amazed how we are lucky to have access to years of wisdom of so many people consolidated here. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 15:24, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

  • No worries and no need for apologies! Like I said, it was a "yes/no" situation - and I don't mind passing along info! I was lucky to have people help me out when I first started editing and to be honest, there is still a lot rule/guideline-wise that I have to learn even after being on here for so many years. I like being able to pass along what others have helped me learn! ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 17:41, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

I received your mail

I could have replied you their but for some reason every now and again my email does this thing where I can’t find the “reply button” okay let’s start, in such scenarios what you do is go to the article itself, perform a WP:BEFORE and if you find the article to be lacking in terms of notability, you nominate it for deletion, because more often than not such articles are always non notable WP:ADMASQ's. What you can do also, is move the article back to Draftspace. Either-way you would have successfully removed the rubbish junk from mainspace. Celestina007 (talk) 10:29, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Celestina007. Will soon get to this. No problem on email. I don't think we necessarily need it anymore. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 16:07, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

Definitely we could discuss here on wiki except it’s something very serious along the lines of WP:OUTING then an e-mail should be used. Celestina007 (talk) 16:20, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
Celestina007, I am at a moral dilemma! Help. Draft:Geneva Gay clearly a highly notable academic. Her GS [20] demonstrates number of citations I rarely come across. Respect is oozing out of my soul for them since I myself have academic background. But the creator is blocked and likely closely connected (might just be them). I constantly feel like improving and accepting this page. Would this be fair? Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 16:27, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
If the subject of the article meets the required SNG & you feel you can clean it up to the point where WP:NPOV is satisfied, then please by all means clean it up and accept it. This is one of the fundamentals of AFC. Celestina007 (talk) 14:04, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
  • off topic - This is off topic, really off topic but I find it bizarre and regaling that you somehow always message me when I’m about to undergo surgeries. I’d be editing until I can’t, if I stop editing abruptly, it’s because general anesthesia has been administered, in any case until then, I’d be here to answer more questions(if you have any). Celestina007 (talk) 14:19, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
Feeling horrible to realize this Celestina007. Please take some time off and recover well. I know Wiki editing is sort of meditative and helps anchoring oneself (at least for me which is one of the reasons I do it), but, you know how it can also have a bad impact on mental health because of unnecessary conflicts and differences of opinions - specially for the work you get involved in. So please, please & please take good care of yourself. We will see you soon. Sending lots of love, hugs and positive energy. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 15:25, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for the support, i appreciate it, although my editing here has no effect on my real life health, it never did, surgeries are second nature to me and that is due to my own unwillingness to quit playing basketball. That’s that for that. Im not fully recovered yet and have only been allowed access to my mobile device for a short while. A quick note; you seem to have covered the basics on COI you need to acquire NPP rights however wait a little longer as stated by Rosguill (if they have asked a specific time must pass before you reapply please ensure to do precisely that) before reapplying, continue with your works and when in doubt leave me a message or mail me. Thank you for your works and words of encouragement. Celestina007 (talk) 16:44, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
I wish you a very speedy recovery Celestina007. And I will also try to train my mind for things on wiki not impact my off-wiki life. Rosguill had advised a year which isn't little' but I respect their decision. I still greedily sweep through New Pages Lists and try to find obvious COI or promotional articles and deal with them and might continue to do that if it's okay. Thank you! See you soon! Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 02:59, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Request on 18:25:24, 30 June 2021 for assistance on AfC submission by Kathynof


Dear Nomadicghumakkad,thank you for your feedback on my AfC Sandra L. Richter. I have made some edits, removing the "major works" language and editing the selected publications, podcasts, etc. as you suggested. Also, can you further explain what you mean by things that are "not properly sourced" and provide an example? Would you mind having another look at the article at your convenience?

Thank you. Kathynof

Kathynof (talk) 18:25, 30 June 2021 (UTC)


Hello Kathynof , thanks for reworking on this and shorting the Bibliography sections. Looks much better. More notes below:

  1. The opening paragraph has no source. I understand that the lead can be a summary of what's written below but you still need to provide sources.
  2. This is also unsourced She has served on the board of the Seminary Stewardship Alliance under Blessed Earth, the American Bible Society: Scripture and Translation Committee, the Institute of Biblical Research Program Committee, and on the Editorial Board for the Bulletin for Biblical Research.
  3. In Bibliography, you should either provide a source verifying that this work exists or an ISBN Number.
  4. Avoid saying things like International Speaker. In today's time, anyone can call themselves that and it's nothing but puffery.

How do you know her? Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 03:16, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Heads up

Hello! Just an FYI that I came across Draft:Leo Regan, cleaned it up and published it. I could not find the random sources you mentioned in the reviewer comment. I did check all the sources mentioned in the filmography, which were about his films. My conclusion was that he meets WP:NARTIST part 3: has created a body of work that was the subject of multiple independent reviews. Thanks. --- Possibly ☎ 22:39, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Hey Possibly, thanks for notifying. What I meant was, his film Scars was linked with Scar, The Doctor Who Hears Voices was a redirect to Rufus May, film cold turkey was linked to Cold Turkey. To me, it looked like an attempt to give an impression that there were multiple notable works while in reality they were not having their own pages. On second thoughts, this can also be out of ignorance of a new editor.
I think to make it more obvious that this subject is notable, we can add a review section and some extracts of reviews of his work. What do you think? Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 03:10, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Ok now I understand waht you meant about random linking! Sure, go ahead with the review section if you want to do that. I read all the reviews and there is zero doubt in my mind that he's notable. --- Possibly ☎ 03:18, 1 July 2021 (UTC)


I am trusting you on your assessment of notability already and hence not questioning your judgment Possibly or reassessing when I say we should add some reviews. I was saying more from other editors' point of view who might come to the page and might just start thinking the same way I did (unfortunately). I will give it some time and add some reception then. Thank you and happy editing. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 03:22, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Move of older article to Draft

You should not be unilaterally moving older articles to the Draft space. I have reverted 3 moves you made that moved a 3, 5 and 6 year old article to Draft space. WP:DRAFTIFY talks about when an article should be moved to Draft. There are two times, WP:DRAFTIFY#As a result of a deletion discussion and WP:DRAFTIFY#During new page review. These three article were neither of those. ~ GB fan 10:24, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your note ~ GB fan. I have understood it now and I am also happy that I have an opportunity to discuss this with someone experienced. I did this since I have seen many editors move old pages to drafts when they are suitable for mainspace in current state but can be. My questions are as follow:

  1. Can only unreviewed pages be moved to drafts and reviewed pages can't be moved (provided they are not at AFD)?
  2. Can any one draftify such unreviewed pages or it should be people with NPP rights only?
  3. What if a page is reviewed, but later it is found out that there is a Conflict of Interest (I suspect at least one of these three pages has this problem)? Should this still not be draftified and should we simply put a tag if it has been reviewed in past?

Answers to these questions will really help me contribute better. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 10:52, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

The links I provided above are to a page that is an explanatory supplement to the editing and deletion policy pages. So when there are questions about this we need to go back to what the policy actually says. In this case the section points to the deletion policy, Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Incubation. That section of the deletion policy says that moving pages o the Draft space is allowed for recently created articles. I can not answer your questions as I am not adequately knowledgeable of all the NPP rules. The only comment is that if the article was not recently created no one should be moving it to the Draft space without a AFD closing that says it should be moved. ~ GB fan 15:05, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks ~ GB fan, this clears my mind and also gives me an insight on how to probe further (that is by reading discussions that formulated the policies). Much appreciated! Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 16:15, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Draft to be created (Talitha)

Hi Nomadicghumakkad, I hope you are coping well with the pandemic and in the pink of health. As informed earlier, after leaving Ronnie Jupiter's draft on hold, I would like to create a draft for another Malaysian artist, Talitha. Before creating the draft, I would like to crosscheck with you regarding the reliability of sources obtained from the web. I will list out each source here in the form of an annotated bibliography, however, you can read them anytime possible (they are all written in English).

Source #1: https://hype.my/2020/194894/interview-talitha-tan-flu-prevention/ Title: Interview: Talitha Tan On Her Debut Album, Coping with MCO & Lending Her Voice To Flu Prevention Bibliography: This article was published by Hype, a Malaysian news portal. The official website is https://hype.my/. The article consists of 13 questions interviewing Talitha. The questions asked aim to give the publisher a good understanding of Talitha's musical journey, which includes her previously released singles, her debut album release, how she had been coping with quarantine (also known as Movement Control Order (MCO)) in Malaysia with her music skills, as well as her genre of music.

Source #2: https://www.brandinginasia.com/talitha-tan-hunts-for-happiness-in-new-campaign-from-berjaya-sompo-insurance/ Title: Talitha Tan Hunts for Happiness in New Campaign from Berjaya Sompo Insurance Bibliography: This article explains how Talitha finds ways to enjoy life throughout the tough living in the COVID-19 pandemic. Some of her hobbies include cooking and car racing.

Source #3: https://paultan.org/2020/12/17/toyota-gazoo-racing-season-4-vios-challenge-gains-three-new-celebrity-racers-plus-new-rookie-class/ Title: Toyota Gazoo Racing Season 4 – Vios Challenge gains three new celebrity racers, plus new Rookie class Bibliography: This article is mainly written about Talitha's hobby for car racing, as mentioned in Source #2.

Source #4: https://www.thestar.com.my/lifestyle/family/2021/03/11/encouraging-survivors-to-speak-up Title: Encouraging survivors to speak up Bibliography: This article is regarding Talitha's experience of sexual harassment, and how she conveys a message to the community by encouraging them not to be silent. This article was also published by The Star (Malaysia).

Source #5: https://www.nme.com/en_asia/news/music/talitha-shows-off-her-moves-in-new-music-video-for-ineedsomeone-2822711 Title: Talitha. shows off her moves in new music video for ‘ineedsomeone’ Bibliography: This article is regarding Talitha's choreography in her music video, 'ineedsomeone'.

Source #6: https://www.bandwagon.asia/articles/talitha-tan-life-quarantine-cats-music-mco-openup-sonaone-malaysia-asia-spotlight-yuna-coachella-laneway-boyce-avenue-sam-tsui-2020-interview Title: Asia Spotlight: "My music-making began in the shower" - Talitha on life in quarantine, with her cats and music Bibliography: This article is regarding how Talitha started her musical journey, her vocal inspirations as well as quarantine life.

Source #7: https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2018/07/15/influencing-as-a-career Title: Influencing as a career Bibliography: This article is regarding Talitha's fitness lifestyle.

Source #8: https://rojakdaily.com/lifestyle/article/4079/top-malaysian-influencers-you-must-have-spotted-somewhere-in-2017 Title: Top Malaysian Influencers You Must Have Spotted Somewhere In 2017 Bibliography: This article is regarding top Malaysian influence in 2017, with Talitha included in the list.

Kindly let me know the reliability regarding these 8 sources before I can proceed - there's more on the web, but I decided to start small first. Also, you can check out Talitha's primary sources in the Google knowledge panel here: https://g.co/kgs/HKaToR, which includes her Instagram profile, Spotify artist page, and many more. Have a good day and stay safe, MarkieC07 (talk) 17:42, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi MarkieC07, please accept my apologies for such delayed reply. I am very happy to see your continued contribution to the project. Let's go through policies one by one:

  1. Would you say it meets any WP:NSINGER criteria? If yes, please let me know which one so that we can evaluate from that point of view. If no, let's move on to next.
  2. Do you think it has three sources that are strong enough to contribute to WP:GNG? If yes, please just present WP:THREE and let's evaluate those first.
  3. If none of the above two apply, we will check for WP:BASIC. For that, of course, I would have to go through all sources you have mentioned here.

Could you let me know about possibilities at WP:NSINGER and WP:THREE first? I am just trying to save my time since I have a long backlog of messages to respond! Looking forward! Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 07:42, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi Nomadicghumakkad, no worries at all regarding the delay. According to the criteria stated in WP:NSINGER, Talitha was placed on Hitz (radio station) on a rotational basis, but unfortunately at this time there is no supporting article. I think we can adhere to WP:BASIC for now, so I can know which sources are reliable. Again kindly take all the time you need, I appreciate your help and have a nice day! MarkieC07 (talk) 19:01, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Draft: YesWeHack

Hi there, and thanks for reviewing my draft 2 days ago. I understand that there is not enough significant coverage in my draft to publish it. The issue I encounter is that the company I'm writing about is French, so full and relatable articles about it are written in French. I was wondering if I could add them? Or if references should only be in English? In the meantime, I've rewritten the article and tried to improve it. Any pieces of advice would be much appreciated! Thanks much. Mathbsnd (talk) 12:10, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello Mathbsnd, French language or any other language is totally acceptable. The only challenge with sources in other language that I particularly face is that it is not easy to determine if it is a reliable source or not. BUT, that doesn't mean that any editor should not use them. So bring them on and we will figure out. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 16:14, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello Nomadicghumakkad, and thanks for your answer. I added a few references in French in which YesWeHack is the main subject, hoping it will improve the quality of press coverage. Should I submit the draft to the AfC process again, or would you have some time to take another look? Mathbsnd (talk) 14:52, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Hey Mathbsnd, sorry for delayed reply. I saw that this got archived here so took a moment to find this conversation. Would it be possible to give WP:THREE here itself? Otherwise, it will take a lot of time for me to differentiate what's new and old. Thanks a lot! Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 07:44, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Hey Nomadicghumakkad, no worries, thanks for replying. Sure, for me, the three best sources are: 1. Cybersécurité : Yes We Hack chasse les bugs en Asie 2. YesWeHack à l'assaut du monde 3. YesWeHack: 'The idea is to be a European alternative to the US bug bounty platforms’ So two in French and one in English - hope it will be better this time. Thanks and enjoy your day! Mathbsnd (talk) 10:18, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

K-Health

Hi, Nomadicghumakkad! I submitted the draft for K Health a few weeks ago after User:Hatchens had cleaned the draft and told me there were no issues of promotional content. Now, I re-submitted the draft again but I’d like to improve it while it is pending review. Can you, please, be specific about promotional content in the draft? I’d appreciate if you detail once reviewing the draft to make it meet Wikipedia standards. Here is the draft for your convenience:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:K_Health Idunnox3 (talk) 01:47, 2 July 2021 (UTC)


Hello Idunnox3, thanks for reaching out. There are specific phrases which are problematic like serial entrepreneurs, but the key challenege is that it looks like company profiling and provides no in-depth understanding of the subject. For example, In October 2020, the company formed a partnership with Mayo Clinic through the Mayo Clinic Platform to accelerate the deployment of virtual care models by leveraging large deep data insight This reads like you only want to show that the subject is affiliated with another notable subject and that's all. It should ideally talk more about the role that the company played in it or expand on it; rather than dropping one thing after the other. The overall feel of the article is advertorial. I see previous comments on sources as well, so it might be best to first evaluate WP:THREE and then make more progress. Can you present three best sources here? Quick tip - avoid funding related news for WP:THREE unless it is qualifying WP:CORPIND. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 03:17, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello, Nomadicghumakkad! Thank you for your quick response. Here are the three articles, that in my opinion, meet the WP:THREE:

All three articles talk about many things related to K Health and "funding is just one of the aspects - they are not focused on that aspect. Also, all those articles are in-depth coverage of K-Health's development, structure, business model and etc. The publications are US national and fully meet Wikipedia's requirements for the reliable secondary sources.

Also, I believe that K Health easily passes Wikipedia:NCORP for being a national company of the US in all 50 states and also has presence in Mexico and Israel. The publications also indicate it has 4 million patients, which is quite a significant number. Idunnox3 (talk) 01:46, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Articles for Creation July 2021 Backlog Elimination Drive

Hello Nomadicghumakkad:

WikiProject Articles for creation is holding a month long Backlog Drive!
The goal of this drive is to eliminate the backlog of unreviewed articles. The drive is running until 31 July 2021.

Barnstars will be given out as awards at the end of the drive.
There is currently a backlog of over 1800 articles, so start reviewing articles. We're looking forward to your help!

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for Creation at 21:54, 7 July 2021 (UTC). If you do not wish to recieve future notification, please remove your name from the mailing list.

I have been away

Got back today! And will get to all messages etc. Sorry for such long gap. I have tried to respond to everything but in case something is missed, please start a new thread. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 10:05, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

K-Health

Idunnox3, previous thread was archived and I just noticed that I should not edit those. So starting a new one here. The links you have provided are incomplete. Please recheck and provide again. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 07:47, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Shiji submission by Philbutler

Hi, Nomadicghumakkad, it's me again regarding Draft:Shiji Group and sources. I went back through some of these and found a Skift report by one of the staff analysts that meets all the criteria for notoriety. [21] is an in-depth analysis by the company by one of the industry's leading sources. While Skift does publish paid content, they also do white papers and key research as well. Sean O'Neill is not a contributor and fits in the same category as Forbes or Bloomberg staff writers etc. What do you think about including this as one of the 3 we talked about?

Sorry to be so brief here, I lost a more lengthy reply. Anyway, I am still scouring and looking to find the right references to meet the criteria.

Thanks for all your help.

Philbutler (talk) 15:46, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Hey Philbutler, very happy to see you back! I love it when I see editors returning and participating again. The source looks great in terms of what's written there. I am trying to investigate if Skift is considered a reliable source or not (making an assumption that you are right about Sean O' Neill's affiliation as a staff writer). Seems like the page for Skift was created by a paid editor which ain't a great sign. At the same time, nothing is returning on WP:RS noticeboards [22]. So I think the way ahead to be absolutely sure about this source would be to start a discussion at WP:RS and see what others think. I will do that tomorrow if you'd like. But honestly, going by the content of the source, my gut says this should fly well. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 15:59, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

You are kind Nomadicghumakkad, I appreciate the nod on "trying" even as a semi-retired guy, finding time for everything is pressing. On O'Neil and Skift, I know many of these guys from my time as a journalist writing for various outlets. He used to work for Tnooz and Kevin May, and I know he is highly ethical. That said, Skift does a lot of paid content, as you suggest. This one, if I had to bet, was done as a focus for the industry, which Skift has to do as well. If you would start the discussion, I would so appreciate it. I am learning a lot from all this. It will help me be a better editor for things closer to my heart than corporations. :) Philbutler (talk) 17:08, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Hey Philbutler, I have started the discussion here [23] Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 09:24, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks very much Nomadicghumakkad, it seems like this will be a good discussion for other such situations. I guess every media outlet on Earth can now be considered "paid" one way or another. I think that for us, the issue is to try and identify which reports or information is marketing generated, and which is organic from the standpoint of authentic news or information. Philbutler (talk) 10:30, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

I totally agree with you Philbutler. While the matter on Skift is being sorted, should we evaluate any other sources you might have found? Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 07:48, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Draft: Too Beautiful to Die

Hi, you rejected my draft of the Italian Giallo film "Too Beautiful to Die." Confused. I included several references, more than what I have seen on similar pages about less popular films. In any case, I added a link to the IMDB page of the film, so there are web and print references now, including the link to online reviews I had included earlier. I hope this will suffice! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nyingpo (talk • contribs) 08:38, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello Nyingpo, I see another reviewer also rejected it. Reason is same. I would encourage you to read WP:NFILM and improve accordingly. Also, language is not a barrier. If you have sources in any other language, please do add them as well. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 08:42, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi, I read through the rules, and I am thinking about what to do. Fwiw, it seems pretty arbitrary--I have seen many film pages on Wikipedia that have fewer references than what I included. But I'm not sure it's worth my time to keep pursuing this. Best, n

Rasha Page

I asked the admin to unblock as you shared the concern but someone has to review it properly and the reviewer should request him to unblock. Can you properly check Draft:Rasha Kelej ?Fishandnotchips (talk) 05:01, 11 July 2021 (UTC)Fishandnotchips (talk) 05:12, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello Fishandnotchips, like I made the comment before, topic is notable because of being part of Egypt Senate. But, this doesn't mean any notable draft can be accepted. It still needs to meet our guidelines. Please read WP:VER and source all information that is unsourced. You need to ensure all facts are sourced appropriately. Laundry list of countries also doesn't add a lot of value; might want to work on that. Once these issues are fixed, I can review it and request for unblock. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 15:45, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Request on 21:10:24, 13 July 2021 for assistance on AfC submission by AlbertaTrucker94



AlbertaTrucker94 (talk) 21:10, 13 July 2021 (UTC)


Hello Nomacicghumakkad - as per the comment on the proposed article: - Vancouver Community College is an accredited college - it is a public (government-funded) college in British Columbia, Canada. It is the largest, and the oldest community college in British Columbia and one of the most historic in Canada. Please reconsider as the college does meet your requirements, and is linked in the article as well.

Please reconsider the article for submission as it meets all the requirements you've outlined. Thanks! :)


Hello AlbertaTrucker94 , thanks for reaching out. I am not familiar with Canadian Education System yet. The Criteria says significant accredited college or university. College can mean different things in different countries. My advise would be to have it double checked if Vancouver Community College qualifies the criteria. I can initiate a discussion at WP:TEA for this if you'd like. If other editors - who are more experienced with WP:Academic confirms that it does, the subject will meet notability. After that, we will have to address other concerns like WP:NPOV and WP:VER. Also, how do you know this person? Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 02:51, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Draft: Navi Ferozpurwala

Hi, Nomadicghumakkad, Thanks for your comment on the draft. I would like to bring to your notice that the person is unknown to me as I have interest in Indian music so contributing towards the same field. Meanwhile, I have added more reliable sources to the biography. I hope know its good to go. Pls share your suggestions. I have resubmitted the draft. Pakkapull (talk) 09:52, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello Pakkapull, I didn't see the subject qualifying for any criteria under WP:COMPOSER which also covers lyricists. Hence, evaluated under WP:GNG and WP:BASIC. Most of the coverage here seems to be announcements and there is no in-depth discussion of his work. Would you like to share three best sources according to you that gives notability to the subject? Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 02:54, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Draft: Marc N. Weiss

Hello Nomadicghumakkad,

Thank you for your feedback on the draft. Can you please help me understand what qualifies as a reliable source?

My submission has four citations from The NY Times, five from the LA Times, and three from Wired magazine. Several of these are directly about Mr. Weiss.

What would make these citations acceptable?

Thanks very much.

--AlexanderKopelman (talk) 13:22, 13 July 2021 (UTC)


Hello AlexanderKopelman, you can read WP:RS to understand more about reliable sources. The challenge was that it seemed like some portions were still unsourced. Please read WP:VER. Also, you don't have to give 4 references to cite same information. One (whichever is strongest) is enough. Otherwise, it becomes a WP:REFBOMB. The subject might be notable under WP:Creative. Could you do me a favor? Can you reduce unnecessary references to start with? And source information that's not sourced already? Once you have done that, we will take another look. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 02:58, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

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