User talk:Mkbdce
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February 2010
Please do not add original research or novel syntheses of previously published material to our articles as you apparently did to Mahabharata. Please cite a reliable source for all of your information. Thank you. –SpacemanSpiff 00:16, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
DATE OF MAHABHARATA
Archaeological evidences:Most scholars agree that at least some of the references to the Sarasvati in the Rigveda refer to the Ghaggar-Hakra River.The Sarasvati River is one of the chief Rigvedic rivers mentioned many times in mahabharata.•Recent archaeological discoveries indicate that the Sarasvati river ceased to be a sea flowing river by 3500 BCE, and had dried up around 1900 BCE.The Rg Veda and hence mahabharata too, cannot be dated later than 1900 BCE.because in mahabharata it is refered many times and there is no description of its drying up completely.so it may be asummed that a very deep core portion was written during period of 1900bc-1500bc. The Mahabharata says that the Sarasvati dried up in a desert (at a place named Vinasana or Adarsana).[12] According to the Mahabharata, the river dried up in order that the Nishadas and Abhiras might not see her.[13] The Mahabharata also states that Vasishtha committed suicide by throwing himself into the Sutlej and that the Sutlej then broke up in a 100 channels (Yash Pal in S.P. Gupta 1995: 175). This myth seems to be related with the changing of the course of the Sutlej river. Recent research indicates that the Sutlej flowed into the Ghaggar-Hakra river in ancient times. According to Hindu tradition, the Sarasvati flows in a subterranean channel and joins the Yamuna and the Ganga in the "Triveni Sangam" at Prayag (Allahabad). The Mahabharata also records that the Sarasvati joins the sea impetuously (Mbh. 3.88.2). Balaram, elder brother of Krishna took a journey, starting from Dwaraka, along the banks of Sarasvati and visited a number of holy places during the wartime. During his pilgrimage, Balaram visited Vinasana, the place where the Sarasvati disappears in the desert (Mbh. 3.80.118; 9.36.1; 3.130.4). In Mahabharata 9.53.11, Balaram visited karapacava (where the Yamuna originates) shortly after visiting Plaska Prasravana (where the Sarasvati originates). The Mahabharata also records that the Sarasvati, after having disappeared in the desert, reappears in some places (e.g. Mbh. 3.80.118). According to the Mahabharata (3.81.115), Kurukshetra is south of the Sarasvati and north of the Drishadvati. The Mahabharata also states that the Sarasvati is the first creation among rivers and that it flows to the ocean (Mbh. Anus’a_sana 134.15). According to the Mahabharata, Puskara in the Sarasvati river region was during the Tretayuga period the most sacred site on earth.[14] Oghavati was another name of river Sarasvati according to Mahabharata 9.38 2.Geoghraphical analysis:Geoghraphy of dried up channel of saraswati ghaggar river completely matches with description given above.In the epic all states,river and mountains are matched with current geography,so it proves that it is not a imagination of the writter.In Mahaprasthanika Parva of mahabharata (17.1.31)it is mentioned "Proceeding on, those heroes reached the sea of red waters. Dhananjaya had not cast off his celestial bow Gandiva",presently it i known as red sea and The Red Sea is a seawater inlet of the Indian Ocean, lying between Africa and Asia.In Mahaprasthanika Parva of mahabharata (17.2.2)it is mentioned"Those princes of restrained souls and devoted to Yoga, proceeding to the north, beheld Himavat, that very large mountain.Crossing the Himavat, they beheld a vast desert of sand"it is probably the vast gobi desert in china.The kingdoms and rivers has shown in epic india in wikipedia.so the epic deals with a very vast asian geography.In adi parva of mahabharata(1.90.26) it is mentioned that king matinar performed yagya in Fire altars at the bank of saraswati river,At Kalibangan fire Vedi (altar)s have been discovered, similar to those found at Lothal which S.R. Rao thinks could have served no other purpose than a ritualistic one.none of any river in the world having ancient city of fire altars along its bank including ganga,yamuna,indus.this shows that saraswati river was main vedic river in vedic time.in whole mahabharat shiva ling worship was also famous,phallic symbols resembling the Hindu Siva lingam have been found in the Harappan remains.so mahabharat can be dated in a period of 1500bc-600bc. 3.Languages&inscriptions analysis:one of the communication or spoken language during mahabharat time was brahmi,mahabharat(1.76.12). in india brahmi as a writting languages was develeoped by 900bc-800bc.The recent archeological findings at Adichanallur, Tamil Nadu by ASI have indicated that the Tamil-Brahmi inscription may have dated from as far back as 7th-8th century BC.there is no where mention of any writting language in mahabharata.sanskrit is no where mentioned as spoken or writting language in mahabharata.but as a writting languages ,one special undeciphered(not easly deciphered)writting was used by vidur and it was sent to yudhister,mentioned in mahabharata(gita press) (1.144.20)&(1.146.6). now oldest manuscript in brahmi belong to period about 300bc and inscription belong to 800bc.in case of sanskrit oldest surviving manuscript is MS Spitzer, the oldest surviving Sanskrit philosophical manuscript dated to the first century, that contains among other things a list of the books in the Mahabharata. From this evidence, it is likely that the redaction into 18 books took place in the first century. An alternative division into 20 parvas appears to have co-existed for some time. The division into 100 sub-parvas (mentioned in Mbh. 1.2.70) is older, and most parvas are named after one of their constituent sub-parvas. the copper-plate inscription of the Maharaja Sharvanatha (533-534) from Khoh (Satna District, Madhya Pradesh) describes the Mahabharata as a "collection of 100,000 verses" (shatasahasri samhita).•Dion Chrysostom, Greek Sophist writes in 100 CE, that the Indians possess an Iliad of 100,000 verses. Together with its appendix, the Harivamsha, MB does add up to this total. Thus the MB, of the current volume was surely completed by 100 CE.•Panini's grammar (500 BCE, a most conservative date) knows the Mahabharata. The language of the Epic does not always follow Paninian constructions, which also suggests that it is prior to Panini.Panini's grammar (c. 400 BC) knows the Mahabharata. Also, the Epic, in its long descriptions of the religions of the day, does not mention Buddhism, so we can be certain that it was substantially complete prior to 400 or 500 BC. The language of the Epic does not always follow Paninian constructions which also suggests that it is prior to 500 BC. Many of the characters of the Mahabharata are mentioned in the Vedic texts that, on account of being considered sacred, have not suffered interpolations and should thus represent historical persons. Krishna, for example, is mentioned in the Chhandogya Upanishad. Other names occurring elsewhere include Vichitravirya, Shantanu, Dhritarashtra, Janamejaya, and Parikshit.The famous Aihole inscription of Chalukya King Pulkeshi II says: the temple was constructed 3735 years, after the Bharat War. Aihole inscription was written in 634 CE. Thus the date of the MB war by this inscription is 3102 BCE. This inscription was written too long after the MB war, and hence this is not given much credence.mahabharata does not mention about morya,budhda,magadha dynasty.so it is clear that the most of the part of mahabharata might be written before 600bc-300bc in sanskrit and 1200bc-800bc in brahmi.it may be asummed that manuscripts belonging to this period may be lost or destryoed,because manuscript in sanskrit belonging to period 100ad still survived today. now core portion may be dated period belong to 1500bc-1100bc to satisfy geographical and archaeological factors.In ancient india knowledge was transfered from one to another by oral tradition.so during 1500bc-1000bc it would be transfered oraly in brahmi and from 800bc-300bc,it may be written into brami script. 4.Foreign history: •Dion Chrysostom, Greek Sophist writes in 100 CE, that the Indians possess an Iliad of 100,000 verses. Together with its appendix, the Harivamsha, MB does add up to this total. Thus the MB, of the current volume was complete by 100 CE. SO The Mahabharata is presumed to predate the Greek epic Iliad, and some episodes of the Mahabharata are syncretistically said to identify with the story of the Iliad. Christian Lassen, in his Indische Alterthumskunde, supposed that the reference is ultimately to Dhritarashtra's sorrows, the laments of Gandhari and Draupadi, and the valor of Arjuna and Duryodhana or Karna. This interpretation, endorsed in such standard references as Albrecht Weber's History of Indian Literature, has often been repeated. so at last i am concluding my topic by considering all these factors into consideration: Date of bharta compostion is 1500 bc-800bc in brahmi by oral traditon.800bc-500bc is written form in brahmi script.and 500 bc-100ad is written form in sanskrit.100ad-300ad final form as we see in present
Please stop. If you continue to violate Wikipedia's no original research policy by adding your personal analysis or synthesis into articles, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. –SpacemanSpiff 00:22, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
Sock accounts and edits to Mahabharata
A few notes:
- It seems that you are using the IP 115.240.99.41 (talk · contribs) and Mkbdtu (talk · contribs) to make edits to the article Mahabharata and its talk page. Please see wikipedia's policy on using multiple accounts and stick with one to edit the page.
- Your edits on the page are being reverted since they violate wikipedia's policy or reliable sourcing, proper use of primary sources, and original research - most of your text seems to be copied from other wikipedia articles and then used to reach novel conclusions about the dating of the epic. Instead of relying on such arguments conceived by anonymous wikipedia editors, we prefer to simply state the rough consensus of the scholars in the field. Also note that a detailed recounting of the facts and analysis that leads the experts to their conclusion is undue in this summary article, which needs to cover a large amount of material in a few thousand words.
If you wish to discuss these further you are welcome to post at the article talk page, but keep your posts short, to the point, specify what changes you propose to make to the article and the sources you can cite to back up those changes. Finally be aware of wikipedia policies against edit-warring and particularly the 3 revert rule, since repeatedly making similar disputed edits can lead to one being blocked from editing. Cheers. Abecedare (talk 00:52, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
Mkbdce (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
Respected administrators,,i request you to give me last chance as a editor because ,i have understood that why i was blocked and i shall never repeat my mistakes ,i will not continue to cause damage or disruption,give me last chance,i will keep my promise ,i will make useful contributions instead,I am already doing work under Dbachmann. so,please unblock my account,give me last chance,i will give a lots of contribution to wikipedia and no disruption will be caused by me further.thank you.
Decline reason:
Checkuser verified sockpuppet of banned user. You've long ago exhausted the community's patience. --jpgordon::==( o ) 16:53, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.