User talk:Mesfin/Archives/2022/June

Ge'ez script

Thanks for your careful explanation on my revert on Tigrinya language! I checked, and indeed Ethiopic script redirects to Ge'ez script, an article that apparently you created 17 years ago. Based on that, I think I can let it go, as we apparently lived with this for many years now. I'm still somewhat surprised by your justification for using Ge'ez instead of Ethiopic. You seem to be aware that Ethiopic is the term used in the English literature for this script in almost all places. When not, people may refer to the Amharic expression of 'Sabaean Fidel', which is what I mostly hear in Ethiopia. Nowhere, though, except here in Wikipedia, do I see the use of Ge'ez when talking about the script. Now when you say that "this practice is confusing and wrong to those who use Tigrinya. Ge'ez script is the correct term here", then I need to remind you that this is the English Wikipedia, and it should reflect the use in the English-language scholarly literature. WP:CRITERIA states that "Article titles are based on how reliable English-language sources refer to the article's subject." Whether this confuses or even offends people of other languages cannot determine the nomenclature we use in Wikipedia. On the Tigrinya Wikipedia editors are of course free to use the names used in that language, but I don't quite see how that should determine our usage here. LandLing 18:14, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Hello. I thank you for your interest in the Horn of Africa and this resulting dialogue.

I would first describe the use of term Ethiopic in English literature not as replacing Ge'ez, but as used interchangeably with it (Ethiopic being just a favoured English term FOR the Ge'ez language itself). You will notice that the use (and favouring) of "Ethiopic" is done by foreign writers who are producing texts for other foreign writers. Locals exclusively use the term Ge'ez, even when writing in English. It is probably favoured due to Ethiopic being easier to pronounce (for non-locals) and Ethiopia being an internationally recognizable country (known outside of linguistic contexts); while Ge'ez is merely a native word used by locals who come from these concerned areas. Most literature addressing the existence of these two terms often describe it as such too:

The Ethiopic syllabary originally evolved for writing the Semitic language Ge’ez. Indeed, the English noun “Ethiopic” simply means “the Ge’ez language.”

— The Unicode Standard, Version 14.0, [1]

In reflection, while I can see why this is done, as adding -ic to roughly ethnic regions/peoples is a practice seen in Amharic (Amhara + ic), Arabic (Arab + ic), Turkic (Turk + ic), etc.; however in these cases the original word is preserved in a manner that replacing Ge'ez with the entirely different word (Ethiopia) does not. Frankly, there are problems with treating these two words as interchangeable. Ethiopia is not Ge'ez, nor is Ge'ez Ethiopia.

While socio-politico-cultural precision and scope are not the most important thing to (mostly) historical writers who write about foreign dead languages, precision and scope of these terms used are VERY IMPORTANT to those of use who use and come from these areas. There will be an never-ending push back (edit war) from every random Wikipedia users if the Ge'ez (language or script) is described or defined in the old English term of Ethiopic. Preserving the misnomer of Ethiopic will be a constant effort that can and should be avoided. It should be recognized as an alternative usage but anything more then that will attract constant corrections from interested locals.

I can assure you that the practice of using Ge'ez script follows all the criteria of WP:CRITERIA of: Recognizability, Naturalness, Precision, Concision, and Consistency in ways that "Ethiopic" can ever hope to be. I could understand objections on the case of nomenclature if the article was titled "Ge'ez Fidel", or simply "Hahu", but Ge'ez script is a well known, agreeable, and effective manner of describing this writing system which was originally developed for use of the Ge'ez language. Cheers. Mesfin (talk) 11:49, 5 June 2022 (UTC)