User talk:M.Billoo2000

Welcome!

Welcome!

Hello, M.Billoo2000, and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
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• How to edit a page and How to develop articles
• How to create your first article (using the Article Wizard if you wish)
• Simplified Manual of Style

Since you've shown some interest in editing topics related to Pakistan, we hope you'll stay and add content to Pakistan-related articles. Pakistani topics are generally underrepresented on Wikipedia and you can help counter this imbalance by becoming a regular contributor and by joining or watchlisting Pakistan-related discussions (for example, Notice board for Pakistan-related topics). Again, welcome!

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or . Mar4d (talk) 17:43, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

Critical response?

Summaries of critical response

Hi M.Billoo, re: this, summaries of critical response need to come from specific voices from reliable sources. So you'd have to find a source like IBT or TOI that says, "the film received mixed reviews". Otherwise, editors could just find a bunch of negative reviews, stuff them into the article, then describe the overall critical response as negative. We can't cherrypick reviews, then try to interpret how all editors felt based on those selected reviews. Hope that makes sense. Regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 01:02, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

Burying negative reviews?

Hi M.Billoo, re: this, I'm curious why you're reordering reviews in descending rating order. I feel like I may have asked about this at Dear Zindagi or one of the other articles. This tends to look like we're burying negative reviews so that nobody sees them. It seems very weird to me. I suppose I can understand it a little more if a film was widely praised and there is simply insufficient negative reviews to populate the bulk of the section, but for a film with mixed response, or even a film that was received poorly, this automatic ordering by rating seems counterproductive and a bit promotional. Just a thought. Thanks. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 20:02, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

I don't think there's a hard rule on that. Sometimes you'll find box office in a reception section. See Mad Max: Fury Road. Sometimes box office gets covered in Release with no sub-section. See Hellraiser: Bloodline. It really depends on what makes the most sense for that particular article. We typically use sub-sections when there is sufficient content do so. If all we have are three sentences on release, domestic gross and international gross, then sub-sections don't really sense. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:57, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Quotation refactoring

Hi M.Billoo, regarding these changes, it's important that you understand the rules of how to include quotations in English prose. We can't just pull out sections of a quotation without making some indication that we've made changes to it, and especially when it may fundamentally change the meaning of what the person said. So for example, in this quotation if you wanted to remove a portion from the middle:

"The best way to enjoy Raees then is to manage expectations first. This is an uneven film. In places, you will applaud and whistle. But you might also find yourself utterly exhausted."

We still have to indicate that we've removed it, by using ellipses like this:

"The best way to enjoy Raees then is to manage expectations first. ... In places, you will applaud and whistle. But you might also find yourself utterly exhausted."

You could also do it like:

"The best way to enjoy Raees then is to manage expectations first." Ray also felt the film was uneven, commenting, "In places, you will applaud and whistle. But you might also find yourself utterly exhausted."

In this quote though, I don't see why we'd remove the observation that the reviewer felt the film was uneven, that seems directly tied to the rest of the observation.

Re: this quote:

"While the film is engaging, what lets it down are some of the contrived and ridiculous twists in the second half. But the climax packs a punch and that misgiving — 'where is this film going?' — is erased."

I don't think it was a good idea to remove "in the second half", because that fundamentally changes the meaning of the quotation. If the second half was bad in the reviewer's opinion, removing that specific information will now make the reader think that the entire film was bad.

Lastly, there are times when we have to change a quotation so that it makes sense grammatically, or to fix an ambiguity in the language so that we know who we're talking about. In those cases, we use square brackets [ ] to indicate a portion has been changed. For example, let's assume someone said the following about Raees:

Smith wrote, "It lacked energy and his attention to detail was weak."

From that selected quote, a reader doesn't know what "it" is or who "his" is, so we'd fix that by writing:

Smith wrote, "[The film] lacked energy and [Dholakia's] attention to detail was weak."

This way, we have fully disclosed to the reader that we modified a direct quotation for some reason. I hope some of this helps. If you're still not sure of how to do this, I urge you to find a grammar website that helps, or maybe there are some YouTube videos that can help with direct quotations. This is an important academic skill to have. Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:50, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

PSL

Hi. You drew my attention to List of anthems about Pakistan Super League recently.

To be honest, it's not really my sort of article. It does highlight that each team seems to be creating new anthems for each season - is that the case do you think? I plan on overhauling the team pages again once the league is finished for the year and it would be useful to know if this is the case. I'd also like people to think about moving the detail of the 2017 season to season articles - as Islamabad United in 2016 for example. That will let us take some of the masses of detail out of the individual season.

As well as that, the draft articles could use some work. I've mentioned this on the 2017 draft talk page - could you tell me your thoughts there about that idea?

With regard to the anthems article, I think it might be better to name it List of anthems of the Pakistan Super League. I *think* that would be a slightly better English language name - perhaps the article can be moved to that name? I think it has some mileage and it's a useful holding page for this sort of information if they really are going to release new songs each year.

I'd be keen to know your thoughts in general. Blue Square Thing (talk) 18:03, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

@Blue Square Thing: Hi! Thanks for your kind response. Hmm... I too agree, page name should be like that; "of" instead of "about". Earlier, we've discussed that anthems' info should be on individual team / league articles instead of main (like in '2017 Pakistan Super League' instead of main 'Pakistan Super League', because they might be creating several new anthems each year and page will go long only by mentioning song names. But then I think that all the anthems should be listed together too. Should I move?

As I am saying on most of my edit summaries that (for example) 'Karachi Kings in 2017' article coming soon, similar as 'Karachi Kings in 2016', you are right for moving the info in new page. Shall we (other good users too) start working?

I saw your message on PSL draft 2017, you asked about order of picking players. You also said that it should be arranged in PSL draft 2016 page. I agree that too, but it is hard for me to arrange. I am unable to find any news reference for that, but soon will try as I can. PSL has officially shared 2017 video, but not of 2016. Well, you have put forward a good point, thanks again! M. Billoo 21:08, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

@Blue Square Thing and Mar4d: Another point I want to raise is teams' colour scheme given in Wiki. Template:Cr-PSL should be updated, showing accurate colour schemes of every team in every year. Like for Lahore Qalandars in 2016 colour was "black base with red stripes", but for 'Lahore Qalandars in 2017', it is "green base with dark bluish stripes" (this is what I understand, it might be any other dark colour). Template should be used as {{Cr-PSL|lhr2016}} for old and {{Cr-PSL|lhr}} for latest. Next year, this one 'might' become {{Cr-PSL|lhr2017}} and new one {{Cr-PSL|lhr}}. This might take a long time to work, but it might help too. Hope I have cleared, sorry for my weak English. M. Billoo 18:39, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

I get what you're saying. Though I'm not entirely sure how to do it. Obviously the template will require the addition of a parameter that allows it to display the themes used in a season. As far as I know, Lahore were the only team that changed their kit. It can be done but you may need to ask a template expert to make the necessary changes. Mar4d (talk) 18:56, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Also, some of those colours are done poorly and may need to be refined. In the Karachi and Peshawar colours for example, the lines don't look straight. And Quetta's strip doesn't look gold. Mar4d (talk) 18:57, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

@Mar4d: You're right, only LQ's color was changed. I earlier had left a message on Template Talk:Cr-PSL but didn't get reply, instead I saw updated version in most of the pages. Also, team IU color should be interchanged. Thanks! M. Billoo 19:04, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

So now we need two people. A template expert and a graphics expert :p Mar4d (talk) 19:05, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

@Mar4d, Anjana Larka, and Wiki id2: I saw these 2 users' contributions on Template:Cr-PSL, maybe they can help. Also, I edited color on KK and LQ's fan userboxes, if they are correct then I would liketo say that all 5 should be similar. M. Billoo 19:14, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

I'm lousy with graphics templates (OK, lousy means bad). I don't particularly use them (or like them if I'm honest) so I might take a look if you guys can't get it sorted.

I think I have sources for the 2016 draft probably - CricInfo has some decent articles that will let us patch things together a little better anyway. In terms of the yearly articles, why don't you start them and I'll weight in at some point and try and rationalise them and deal with any written English stuff. The pages we developed for Kent County Cricket Club in 2016 might also be worth a look in terms of some of the ways in which the game logs themselves have been done. I'm not a fan of the tables on the PSL ones from last year. Blue Square Thing (talk) 19:37, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Karachi vs. Lahore

What are your thoughts on the famous Karachi Kings–Lahore Qalandars rivalry. Apart from the hype that pervades whenever these two sides meet, I have gone through a selection of sources from the two seasons along with the TV ratings. I am convinced that it could become a decent article. Mar4d (talk) 13:23, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

@Mar4d: Hi! I was too thinking of this... As the both cities; Karachi and Lahore, are also facing some political fights (in development and other things), but the biggest reason I think is the TV rating fight between two media groups; ARY (of Karachi Kings) and Geo (of Lahore Qalandars).

If you are on facebook, you might see many posts that the two cities are fighting; Khi says that it has sea and Lhr says that it has rain (seasonal and weather fights). These are two largest cities of Pakistan, and the strict 'muqabla' between the citizens is due to that which city is better (developed) large (I think :D).

Also, LQ is the second most expensive team after KK, maybe 'it' is due to this jealousy that who proves to be more expensive, hahaha... Or the both teams might be thinking that they would get stronger by having strong player like Gayle, who proved to be best in IPL, and as he has played for both the teams here (maybe the reason of 'rivalry' is his 'sorry work' in PSL).

Sorry for the late reply, as I was busy on something else. Well, I will try to search and collect some more points soon, but one question is that why this wiki-article has been deleted? Earlier I was notified that it was redirected to "Ab Khel Jamay Ga", but was then restored... Thanks! :) M. Billoo 18:31, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, you raise some interesting points. It is my understanding that as both cities dominate the cricket structures in Pakistan, there also tend to be other issues like one city's players supposedly getting 'preferential treatment' over the other. This of course dates back to the Imran Khan-Javed Miandad era. It would be interesting to explore some of these points within the context of the rivalry, with reliable references of course. I will work on this over the next few days. Mar4d (talk) 18:50, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

YouTube refs?

Hi M.Billoo2000, Glad to meet you. Eh, the reason I removed them from Wikipedia is the fact they are illegal on WP. They point to user generated content which is outside editorial control. Anything that is not under editorial control is not allowed. That included, facebook, youtube, blogger, linked in, all social media sites, personnel blogs and so on. scope_creep (talk) 23:34, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Also I meant to say, it is a form of advertising, which is also not allowed, per WP:NOTADVERTISING. It is using WP as a host to advertise a product. scope_creep (talk) 23:41, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

@Scope creep: Hi! Thanks for your kind response, I understand what you say. Is there any need to prove through refs the film soundtracks and Coke Studio, because they are already linked to article? And which songs need to be proved by refs? By the way, I was already working on page's code to add some more info about lyricist, musicians and some more refs, which will take some time. Thanks! M. Billoo 00:18, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

WP:NOT is worth taking a looking. scope_creep (talk) 00:37, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

@Scope creep: A few days back, I was notified that Sadads has reviewed my-created-page Rahat Fateh Ali Khan discography. But he didn't said anything about YouTube or other refs. Similarly I have put in Atif Aslam discography, but no one said anything. Just wanted to let you know. M. Billoo 13:18, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Hi I didn't do a deep review of the quality of the content, I only reviewed whether or not I think the article is reasonably notable and thus warrants inclusion in the encyclopedia. Sadads (talk) 22:34, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

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Hi M.Billoo2000, Can you take the youtube references out of this please, and any other article which you have written. Thanks. scope_creep (talk) 00:48, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

@Scope creep: Why have you removed music video names, you were only talking about refs. Can I re-add names only, they were official. Well, I will try to find more refs. Please, Thanks! M. Billoo 00:55, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Sorry about that. I must have deleted them by accident.scope_creep (talk) 01:08, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

---

@Scope creep: Hi! See this edit by Admin Materialscientist, they didn't say anything about YouTube refs on page Atif Aslam. So, I am putting back some official refs on the pages I removed on your message; 'Ali Zafar discography' and its subpages. Thanks! M. Billoo 05:07, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi M., you have put a whole bundle of youtubes ref back in, on the word of somebody who clearly doesn't understand WP:NPP. These are illegal reference types of Wikipedia. Please take them out. If you keep adding illegal content you will be blocked. Any user generated content, that has not been fact checked by an editorial board, is considered illegal on Wikipedia. You have used a assertion by another editor who is page reviewer, who doesn't know the correct policies to push your own viewpoint, which is considered disruptive. Please fix it immediately. And can you take them out on any other article you have done. scope_creep (talk) 10:29, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

@Scope creep: Hi! If you are warning me, it's OK. Let us first not talk about I PoVs. Earlier, I had a talk with Admin Cyphoidbomb too, he said that adding official YouTube refs is allowed. If there is any doubt on which is un-official, so it can be removed, but not official ones. It's not what I am saying by myself, Thanks! M. Billoo 10:39, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

You could be right. I have tended to apply blanket bang, but do need a link to see what it is. I have kicked it up to an admin, see what he says. Can you fix the bare urls. See when you edit, you will see a cite button on the bar. When you click on it, it has some drop downs on the left hand side, cite book, cite news, cite web. It open a dialog, that when you fill in the fields, creates a proper ref. Better than fields of bare urls which need to be fixed by somebody else later. scope_creep (talk) 10:49, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

@Scope creep: Verified YouTube channels for established reliable sources are typically OK. If CNN has a YouTube presence (for example), that would be OK. In contrast, since the community doesn't consider Koimoi a reputable source, (for example) linking to a verified Koimoi YouTube video would typically not be ideal if the content was controversial. The two things we're concerned about are linking to potential copyright violations and linking to poor references. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 13:56, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: Hi admin! I have one more question. I have collected some official videos on YouTube as a playlist for wiki-article Masty (album). Well, I think it would not be allowed, but better to take an advice. I don't want to promote my YouTube account, I just want to link back to the article only once after the links were lost due to the above messages. Similarly, this for Jhoom (album). Or is it better to put back the links separately, or to find some official playlists? Hope for your kind response as always, Thanks! M. Billoo 01:11, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for asking and for being conscientious about promotion. You don't need to add references for the track listing, as the album itself is assumed to have a printed track listing. For instance, in film articles we don't need to add references for the plot or the cast list, because we assume the primary source (the film) can be used to find the cast credits and to glean general information about the plot. So in this case, I'd recommend omitting the links. Regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 01:56, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

@Scope creep: Hi! Please can you re-check on these tags that you have added? If something's still wrong, please notify me :) Thanks! M. Billoo 04:09, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

@Scope creep: Hi! Can these tags be removed, or the page still needs some update? Please reply, Thanks! M. Billoo 20:21, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

@Scope creep: Hi! Well, as you have earlier removed the similar tags from a page, so I am also removing the tags from this page too: Ali Zafar discography. I am messaging you third time, if you think there is still some problem in page, you can freely share with me so I could try to improve. But if you don't reply, I would consider the matter has been over and the tags can be removed. As you are an active user, I hope for your kind response this time. Thanks! M. Billoo 06:35, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

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Hi Billoo, it is formal to leave a message on the talk page of a user, if you want to leave me a message for them, as you would face message. A messages are always at the bottom of the page, how else are you supposed to find later. Putting stuff in the middle of the page makes it difficult to find, and is outside WP policy. As regards the articles, the reference are still broken, and it still needs a copyedit. scope_creep (talk) 07:49, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

@Scope creep: Hi, Thanks for your response. Sorry for that arrangement, I merged the similar messages on my talk page under single head, so that a conversation remains in one place. For the page, do you mean to say that the two refs I combined into one *ref* template several times? I did it so that they take a less space in table cell, or due to same date entry. It's OK, I will fix it, soon about after an hour or two, I am going to update the page, and will notify you here, so you could check and reply. BTW, I think if one is notified of the message, clicking on notification automatically shows him the message under the respective heading with the # symbol in link address. Thanks! M. Billoo 08:29, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

@Scope creep: Hi! Check this please. Thanks! M. Billoo 15:14, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

@Scope creep: Hi! OK, I am removing the tags, Thanks! M. Billoo 12:56, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

Excellent, you differentiated your vision, and have choosen Wikipedia as an encyclopedia, which it truly is, instead of the corrupt view of WP as a platform to push commercial interests. scope_creep (talk) 13:11, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

Pakistani cinema project

Hi...I noticed you're part of the Pakistani cinema task force. I've fixed quite a bit up on the Cinema of Pakistan article and the template. However, one thing I'm noticing is there is lack of emphasis being made on which industry is producing what. Cinema of Pakistan actually has around 5 industries:

• Lahore cinema industry (Lollywood)
• Karachi cinema industry (Kariwood)
• Pashto cinema (revival in progress with some new films)
• Sindhi cinema (collapsed, revival being planned)
• Balochi cinema (collapsed, hasn't revived yet)

There's a few problems I'd like to highlight:

• First is the lack of differentiating between "Lollywood" and Pakistani cinema. Lollywood exclusively means Lahore cinema industry so I don't understand why some Urdu films being produced in Karachi are being called "Lollywood" films. This would be like an English film being produced in the UK and it being called "Hollywood". I think we should make an effort clearly highlight the difference.

• Pashto cinema has actually been making quite a few number of films now but they are not highlighted in the "List of Pakistani films for (insert year here)". Or maybe I missed it.

Let me know what you think. --PAKHIGHWAY (talk) 01:22, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

@PAKHIGHWAY: Hi! It will take time for me to work on it due to lack of info, thanks for sharing. I thought I had replied, but it seems some internet problem due to which message was not sent. I am saving it in my reminders' list, hope you understand, Thanks! M. Billoo 14:45, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

@PAKHIGHWAY:: My two cents on your first question. I think it's a misconception that "Lollywood" only applies to Lahore cinema. It of course has its roots in Lahore, but it is generally identified as the national/mainstream cinema of Pakistan. An equivalent would be Bollywood which, although centred in Mumbai, is considered the mainstream cinema of India. There was of course a period in the 1980s when Lollywood resorted to Punjabi films and hence it picked up a more regional identity. But that has changed as Urdu films are back. The Kariwood article seems to be more about the local filming scene in Karachi. It's like having an article on the Islamabad filming scene which created movies like Slackistan. By and large, the national industry for Urdu and Punjabi films is still Lollywood, and most reliable sources attest to that, in addition to Pakistani film awards, industry people and the self-identification used during marketing of films. Mar4d (talk) 15:07, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

@Mar4d and PAKHIGHWAY: As far as I know, current films after Khuda Kay Liye are not under Lollywood title, they are just Pakistani films. So our national industry is Pakistani film industry. Indian people like to use and say the word Bollywood, which I have noticed after editing some Indian film articles, but then I had a conversation here. We can take a look at interviews of Ali Zafar, Fawad Khan and similar who have worked in both the cinemas for some further information that what title is used where. Similarly, India has not only Bollywood, they have other language ---woods too. M. Billoo 15:57, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

@Mar4d and M.Billoo2000: I understand where you're coming from, however all of the newer films being produced (Urdu productions) that are making a huge statement are mainly in Karachi now. Lahore hasn't really produced a meaningful Urdu film in ages now. In fact the last meaningful Urdu films to come out of Lahore were Khuda Kay Liye and Bol, both of which were produced by Shoman Productions (Shoaib Mansoor's company, based in Lahore). If we look at the List of highest-grossing Pakistani films, almost all of them are Karachi based productions. Jawani Phir Nahi Ani by Six Sigma Plus (Karachi), Bin Roye by MD Films (Karachi), Waar by MindWorks Media (Islamabad), Wrong No. by YNH Films (Karachi), Actor In Law by Filmwala Pictures (Karachi), Janaan by IRK Films (Islamabad), Ho Mann Jaan by The Vision Factory (Karachi), Lahore Se Aagay by Showcase Productions (ironically Karachi based), Choorian (1998) by Pak Nishan Films (Lahore), Bol by Shoman Productions (Lahore). So out of the top 10 highest grossing Pakistani films, 6 are Karachi based productions, 2 Islamabad and 2 Lahore. All of the 6 Karachi productions were released between 2013 to 2017. I think it's suffice and safe to assume that Karachi has rightfully taken its position as the leader in Urdu cinema. Lahore still makes films, but they're almost exclusively Punjabi films. They tried producing some Urdu films over the years, and they were utter disasters. Islamabad is an oddity, but I view them as an extension of Karachi's scene. And there also seems to be an emphasis from Karachi based producers to not use the term "Lollywood"...it's almost like they deliberately do it, and to be honest I cannot blame them. At the same time does the Karachi scene identity with the "Kariwood", that I'm not sure about...but I do know for a fact that Lahore and Karachi are indeed two different camps. --PAKHIGHWAY (talk) 16:43, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

High-budget Pakistani films

See this. A Pakistani list would be nice, though some solid references would be good to start off. I've read in multiple sources that Yalghaar is the most expensive Pakistani film made in terms of its budget. This is quite interesting, and I wouldn't be surprised if future films have similar budgets. Let me know your thoughts. Mar4d (talk) 11:30, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

@Mar4d: Hi! Many Pakistani filmmakers don't like to reveal their film budget, for example see this and this. (User:M.Billoo2000/sandbox#Pak exp films)

It's hard to find many info about a Pakistani film but info about Bollywood films are reported by many major news sources. The list I mentioned is may be known to you too, or might be I have missed some, but rest films known to me go below it.

I would say we have to wait until we have proper info of atleast 15 films above Rs. 10 crore expense. After it, timeline sub-heading could be created too. Still I don't mind if the page is created now, but I think we have less info to share right now. M. Billoo 22:00, 9 July 2017 (UTC) [Updated: 00:41, 7 November 2017 (UTC)]

I was adding material to Jawani phir nahi ani 2 because in almost every film article this material is added that were this film was shot when the shooting spells were started and if its a sequel than it is important to write in that film article that it is the second installment in the any film series if you don't believe me check the article mission impossible fall out or any film article that is a sequel that's why I was adding that material to Jawani phir nahi ani 2 Sabeeh butt (talk) 04:21, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

Hi need your help for creating a page for film daal chaawal releasing on 4 October. How to contact you. My no is 0321-4994012 Zia Bukhari 1 (talk) 16:42, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

2017 Karachi stabbings

Hi M.Billoo2000, I've read your draft about Karachi stabbing, I firstly want to congratulate you on choosing this topic. I've created more than 20 articles on terrorism so I think I can help you. First thing first, change the title of the page from "2017 Knife attacks in Karachi" to "2017 Karachi stabbing". Then add a Template:Infobox civilian attack, if you have any problem regrading parameters of this template, please ask me. Then try to add a lede section. which should state like this,

The 2017 Karachi stabbing were series of knife attacks on women in Karachi, Sindh, Pakistan. The attacks started in late September 2017 and in span of two weeks, xxx women were killed. Some of the attacks were captured on CCTV camera.

In the above lines, replace xxx with number of women dead, you write appropriate week numbers (like I used two weeks). Now create a heading "Background", which should state,

Karachi had been home to target killing in the past. Moreover, women in Pakistan are frequently assaulted. something like this.

Then create another heading "Timeline", and bold dates and then write incidents that occurred on that date just like shown bellow:

25 Septemeber A girl named xxx was stabbed in xxx park near xxx by a man riding on motor cycle. The man managed to escape. The wounded girl was brought to hospital were she succumb to her injuries.

Now create a section "Reactions", in this section create two subheadings first, "Security forces", second "plitical leadership", in "security forces" heading try to add contents about police's efforts to stop attacks and capture knife man, and in "political leadership" heading ,write statements from politicans just like this, Bilawal Bhutto condemned attack saying "this is cowardly act of terror". Beside these, you may create other paragraphs such as "Media coverage" etc. If you have any problem doing this, please ask me. Moreover if you want help regarding style and layout of terrorism articles, check my these articles, Assassination of Ataullah Shah,2017 Harnai bombing,2006 Dargai bombing,2017 Bajaur bombing, August 2017 Quetta suicide bombing, Bahawalpur church shooting, August 2017 Lahore explosion, 2017 Chaman suicide bombing, 2017 Herat mosque attack, 2017 attack on the Iraqi embassy in Kabul, 2017 Panjgur landmine blast, July 2017 Lahore suicide bombing, 2017 Gwadar labors shooting, January 2007 Dera Ismail Khan suicide bombing or simply just just click here see my terrorism related articles. I hope they'll help you. Thanks Amirk94391 (talk) 08:38, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

@Amirk94391: Hi! Thanks for your response. Actually, the attacks were not so hard and painful, so none of them dead. The victims/injurred female citizens were as 15 as of 8 October. Maybe you are right that the title can be changed. One more thing I am confused in that if we change the title to "stabbing", it might (I don't know) create confusion that either some of the victims have been dead. But the title can be given while the draft has been moved to the page (am I right?). I will try to update as I can and will notify you, because you know I cannot do it alone, so Thanks again! M. Billoo 13:26, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

@Amirk94391: Hi! Updated, please check. Thanks! M. Billoo 02:07, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Very well done the article looks good but there's still a few contents to be added.

1. Infobox

you need to add these template as follow:

| partof = [[Domestic violence in Pakistan]]

| map = {{location map|Pakistan Sindh#Pakistan|lat_deg=24.861462|lon_deg=67.009939|label=Karachi}}

| coordinates = {{coords|24|51|41.26|N|67|0|35.78|E|display=inline, title}}

You aslo need to modify these templates |date = {{Start date|2017|09|25}} – ongoing ({{Age in days|25 Sep 2017}} days) remove parameter victim. thats all from infobox.

1. Lede

It should be like this, "The 2017 Karachi stabbing is ongoing series of attacks carried out against women in Karachi, Sindh, Pakistan. Starting in late September 2017, these attacks have left 15 women and a guy, injured. Security forves believe that all these attacks are carried out by a single man."

1. Attacks

 Done

1. Police reports

This section needs to be splited into another section. From the start of this paragraph, i.e from "The first three victims reported their case on 28 September", to the last line of this paragraph,this section is all right. Butt from the next line that reads, "As reported by some victims and seen in CCTV footages" this should shifted into new section called perpetrator'.

1. Reactions

This sections too needs to be split and its some of its contents need to be shifted into other appropriate sections. Starting from the top of para. "These created panic in the area, and forced many women to stay in home." if an attack have created pain in the area then its the aftermath of the attack not the reaction. So before Reaction create a para Aftermath, and rewrite the above sentence as, These attacks created panic in the area and women preferred to stay at home. The second sentence also needs to be reworded and shifted into Aftermath section. The third sentence, "Even the CCTV footages couldn't managed to help", well as we've mentioned above that attacker was captured by CCTV cameras, its trivia that the footage didn't help. The next sentence should be in Reaction section, but be rewritten as, "Following the fear spread by these attacks, the female students at Karachi University demanded additional security and consequently the attendance low was down. The Vice Chancellor of the University, however, rejected such demand for an additional security." The next sentence needs to be written in simple past tense, as "The use of helmet while riding a bike within the premises of the university was banned, and female students were advised to use point busses instead of using public transport." Next para should be written as, "Chief Minister of Sindh, Syed Murad Ali Shah directed provincial police chief IGP AD Khowaja to immediately bring the culprit forward. He also directed the police to get the survivors' help for making the suspect's sketch." else every thing is good. Amirk94391 (talk) 13:14, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

---

@Amirk94391: Hi! Please check again, can you give some touchings there and arrange the references? Also, you said, "The Vice Chancellor of the University, however, rejected such demand for an additional security." He actually rejected such reports within the university. Thanks! M. Billoo 14:15, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

@M.Billoo2000: excellent job on the article, now just simply write "The Vice Chancellor of the University, however, rejected these reports." Also link Karachi University. What type of arrangement do you want in references? They seems good.Amirk94391 (talk) 14:22, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

@Amirk94391: However, all the sentences there are sourced, but arrange like which sentence is by which reference. I mean to say I have either put a lot of refs in one paragraph, and other seems to be empty of refs. Also, please help in categorization. Thanks again for your kind help! M. Billoo 14:27, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: 2017 Karachi stabbings has been accepted

2017 Karachi stabbings, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.
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jcc (tea and biscuits) 21:52, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

@Jcc: Hi! Very thanks for reviewing the article and accepting its creation! I need some help in it, the references I used there might have a long gap between one another. I mean that if one paragraph has 3-4 refs, than other might has 0 refs. Though, I added each info through those refs, but for verification the article needs some serious help. Hope you understand my weak English, Thanks again! M. Billoo 21:56, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

@M.Billoo2000: If it helps, the sources don't have to be in English- or online. They can be in other languages or newspapers, not just online. It might be easier just to remove paragraphs that you can't cite- but where are you getting the information from in the first place then? jcc (tea and biscuits) 21:57, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

@Jcc: You are right! All the info I added is verified from those references that I cited there. I don't think any paragraph can be removed, but may be arrangement of references is a bit confusing work for me; that which paragraph is taken from which reference, etc… Also, I have checked, if refereces are not properly arranged (that is hard for me), the article might be violating WP:COPYPASTE. Thanks! M. Billoo 22:04, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

2017 Karachi stabbings moved to draftspace

Ok, I've messed up. I didn't check for copyvios- and there's a lot. You'll have to remove everything you've copied and pasted- this will give a good guide. You cannot copy and paste, no matter how you arrange the references. Everything has to be written in your own words. jcc (tea and biscuits) 22:08, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

@Jcc: Hi! Do you know anyone who can help in improving English of the page? I am weak in it. Please also check a comment here: User talk:Saqib#Help: Draft:2017 Karachi stabbings. Thanks! M. Billoo 14:54, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

No, before improving the English you need to get rid of the copied and pasted phrases first, or the article could be deleted at any time. Again, this needs to be done before you worry about improving the English. jcc (tea and biscuits) 20:04, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

@Jcc: I want to say that to avoid being caught in CopyPaste case, there is a need of improving the English and changing the wordings & sentences, instead of removing anything that is sourced. Also, the references need arrangement, for what paragraph being taken from what source. And I am weak at this point, so I need help of anyone who is good in doing this. M. Billoo 01:38, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

@Jcc: Hi! I would like to share that I have made a little touchings in the article, and now it's C-P violation is reduced to acceptable mode. As you already reviewed the page, I think it is ready to be moved on mainspace. I know I cannot make request for review again, because for that I have to wait per WP:Afc. Well, thanks! M. Billoo 21:20, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: 2017 Karachi stabbings has been accepted

2017 Karachi stabbings, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.
The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. Note that because you are a logged-in user, you can create articles yourself, and don't have to post a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for Creation if you prefer.

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jcc (tea and biscuits) 20:36, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

I saw the article was declined and quite frankly I disagree and I've moved it into mainspace. Thanks for the interesting read! jcc (tea and biscuits) 20:37, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

@Jcc: Hi! Thank you so much for reviewing and accepting the article! I too saw it just a few minutes back that the draft has been declined another time today, and I don't understand why. Previously, it was declined due to the violation of WP:C-P, but I soon tried to fix it. Then another editor removed most of the content under WP:NOTQUOTE and WP:NOTNEWS. However, I brought some of the content back that I think does not violate rules. Meanwhile, someone else submitted the article for review. Can you please check some of the edit history and tell me if something more can be brought back? Thanks again! M. Billoo 21:32, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

At a quick look, quite a lot of what was removed by Störm was for copyvio reasons, and some of the quotes were superfluous so I can't say I disagree, but it looks like with the bits you've readded, the article is nicely developed and reads well. jcc (tea and biscuits) 21:37, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Teefa in Trouble has been accepted

Teefa in Trouble, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.
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AmericanAir88 (talk) 03:48, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

@AmericanAir88: Hi! Thank you very very much! M. Billoo 03:51, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

My pleasure! Cannot wait to see what this article brings. AmericanAir88 (talk) 03:52, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

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Jungle Cruise

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DYK for Jungle Cruise (film)

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Social media sites

Hello - would you mind explaining why you're resorting to social media websites as the references for Pakistani pages, particularly those that are considered contentious topics? The article in question happens to be your recent creation - Khul Ke Khel. --—Saqib (talk I contribs) 18:29, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

@Saqib: Hi, thank you for your message. I'm astonished by your use of the word "contentious". Regarding the mentioned page, you're likely referring to References 6, 7, 8, 19, and 32. Three of these are under the #Notes section to clarify production delays, while the last two support the reception. I understand that Wikipedia isn't a marketing platform, and I aimed to maintain a neutral point of view by gathering diverse sources. Please note that each source is a reputable news channel, paper, or same - not any random social media account. Wikipedia doesn't allow speculation, but credible media outlets can support factual information without turning Wikipedia into a news channel (you can refer to this discussion above). If you still believe I made any mistakes, I'm happy to discuss and rectify them, although my availability might be limited. I respect your experience and appreciate your feedback. Thank you again! M. Billoo 01:42, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

I didn't mean to offend you, so please disregard. IMO, social media sites shouldn't be used at all as citations. Happy Eid! — Saqib (talk I contribs) 08:28, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

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