User talk:Kanguole/Archive 6

Archive 1

←

Archive 4

Archive 5

Archive 6

Archive 7

Help me with citations

Reason why I do not add any citations is because my phone does not contain a tool bar for me to add citations for wiki. If I were to give you links would you yourself please edit it in for me? TaipingRebellion1850 (talk) 23:00, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Do you have reliable sources on this topic? Kanguole 23:59, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

This page has the topic of an Lushan Rebellion from the book "better angels of our nature" check out the link. https://bedejournal.blogspot.com/2011/11/steven-pinker-and-an-lushan-revolt.html?m=1 TaipingRebellion1850 (talk) 23:59, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Pinker's book is already discussed in the article. He's not a historian, and his use of this figure has been heavily criticized.

Perhaps it would be better to discuss this on the article talk page. Kanguole 00:11, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Here's a book that gives the lower estimates of 13 million "100 Deadliest Episodes in Human History". Please work something out with me. Here is the link https://necrometrics.com/pre1700a.htm TaipingRebellion1850 (talk) 01:53, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Matthew White (from whom Pinker got the 36 million figure) is also not a historian, but even he admits that the An Lushan figure is problematic. The explanation he gives for his 13 million figure is completely ad hoc. Kanguole 10:40, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 15

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Proto-Japonic, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Shuri. Such links are usually incorrect, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of unrelated topics with similar titles. (Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.)

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 06:10, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Inquiry

Tokharistan Buddhist mural, 5th-6th century CE

Hi Kanguole! Thanks for your information on Beckwith. I'll try to distinguish between the factual and the "fringe" in his publications (there is still a lot of valuable stuff in what he writes I guess, even though he seems to be sometimes an "iconoclast" in some of his opinions). Since you seem to be well-read, I am trying to identify the attached image (precise location mainly, as this is quite obviously Tokharistan, 5th-7th century CE). If I had to guess, I would say Tavka Kurgan for example, but I have no definite idea. Would you happen to know something? Best! पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 13:16, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

@पाटलिपुत्र: Looks like part of File:Mural from Kalai Kafirnigan, Museum of National Antiquities, Dushanbe, Tajikistan.jpg. Kanguole 14:31, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Whoaaa... Thanks!! पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 21:24, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Linguistic homeland

Hi Kanguole! Maybe you have seen the discussion around Linguistic homeland. The participants so far agree that we don't need detailed content forks in that article when the information is better kept in articles about the respective language family. Essentially, we try to condense everything into short bullet-list entries. Do you have ideas about how to handle the sections "Korean" and "Japonic" (and maybe others)? I think you have the best knowledge about it inorder to check what is salvageable per WP:DUE, and how to put the mainstream view into a one-liner. The whole page itself has suffered from much junk information (e.g. the Kra-Dai looked in parts even worse than anything produced by WorldCreaterFighter). –Austronesier (talk) 11:01, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

ArbCom 2020 Elections voter message

Hello! Voting in the 2020 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 7 December 2020. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate in the 2020 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:43, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Comprehensive schools in Surrey

A tag has been placed on Category:Comprehensive schools in Surrey requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for seven days or more and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 15:06, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Baekje language

Hello, as you are one of the few other editors on Baekje language, could you please take a look at this page and ita content. User Cronpix is continuing a strange argumentation (which smells like Korean nationalism) on deleting evidence for Peninsular Japonic presence. I have once again reverted him per WP:Npov but it is unlikely that he stops. Baekje and Baekje language seems to be his solely articles of interest which add to his controversial motivation. Thank you in advance and Happy Christmas!-81.10.217.91 (talk) 13:42, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Preparatory schools in South Yorkshire

A tag has been placed on Category:Preparatory schools in South Yorkshire requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for seven days or more and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 15:03, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Lama Bai

Hi. Do we have any sources that Lama Bai is a distinct language? The ISO change request mostly discusses Panyi, and their evidence for Lama seems to be a speaker who sees the Lama and Panyi as being ethnically distinct. — kwami (talk) 19:35, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

@Kwamikagami: The only sources for that I'm aware of are Ethnologue (editions 17 and later) and the ISO change request (also from SIL). The Glottolog note cites only Ethnologue and the change request (the info from Voegelin & Voegelin is in the E16 entry), but it is clearly incorrect in saying that E17 and later have an entry for "Lama (Myanmar) [lay]" (as E16 does), because these editions have "Bai, Lama [lay]", describing the same Bai language with 60,000 speakers in Yunnan that the change request does. So the sourcing in favour is thin, but the sourcing against (the Glottolog note) is broken.

There are various sources with surveys of the region, but I'm not aware of any judgements of mutual intelligibility. Wang (2006) does say the people of the Nujiang (upper Salween) valley are called Lemo 勒墨 and those of the Lancang (upper Mekong) valley are called Lama 拉瑪, but is more interested in innovations than mutual intelligibility. Allen (2007) was an intelligibility survey for SIL, but has no sample sites in the Lancang valley. Kanguole 21:13, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

IPA tones

Kwamikagami has been changing all numerical Chao tones into tone sticks in articles on East and SE Asian languages, which I strongly recommend against doing. This is the equivalent of converting IAST into IPA on all Indo-Aryan articles.

However, we have now settled on creating a template for tonal East/SE Asian languages, like Template:IAST. We just need a key mapping all MSEA/Sinologist characters to IPA. Your input would be appreciated at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Languages#IPA tones. Lingnanhua (talk) 00:00, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

April 2021

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Qing conquest theory. This means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be although other editors disagree. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus, rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Points to note:

1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made;
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes and work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. No consensus reached on talk page. Zinnober9 (talk) 00:23, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

David Christian Book a history of Russia central Asia and Mongolia in vol 2 and vol 2

It covers the history from the first settlers of Mongolia to demise of mongol Empire. Not as u mentioned from 1200 something....read the book completely and come to conclusions. I've also posted few link and there r many links and books and archeological evidence and research on afanasievo culture in Mongolia is there. Even in Mongolian musuem as well.

Don't remove the article that I've posted. Let other people also known weather the article that I've posted is right or wrong....let others to share also ....it seems u r not comfortable with the idea and fact about Indo-European cultures in Mongolia. Anyways there are already many such articles already in Wikipedia about Indo-European cultures in Mongolia. Hope this Wikipedia is not your fief, that u remove it as soon as I publish...thak you.... Annishiskrishna (talk) 13:39, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

@Annishiskrishna: The link that you added is clearly volume 2, A History of Russia, Central Asia and Mongolia: Inner Eurasia from the Mongol Empire to Today, 1260 – 2000. Kanguole 13:46, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Sometimes probably all the link may not available.... but atleast it gives the idea about the whole existence of the book in thier respective volumes....at least readers while browsing will get to know about it completely....so simply don't remove...rather u should have also said that it is volume 2 Annishiskrishna (talk) 13:50, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Sorry it is in volume 1...not 2. Typing error Annishiskrishna (talk) 13:50, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

And yes when u click the link. It shows both. Volume 1 and volume 2. Both... I've checked it repeatedly... Annishiskrishna (talk) 13:52, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

@Annishiskrishna: It shows two parts of volume 2: "Part I : Inner Eurasia in the Agrarian Era: 1260–1850" and "Part II : Inner Eurasia in the Era of Fossil Fuels: 1850–2000". Kanguole 13:54, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

But part one seperately is also there Annishiskrishna (talk) 13:59, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

@Annishiskrishna: The two parts of volume 2 are at that link (as above). Volume 1 is not. Kanguole 14:05, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Actually there are two separate volume. One begin with prehistoric and the second u already know....in Amazon website it is showing... probably out of stock right now...and by the way there r many journals already available on net. Annishiskrishna (talk) 14:08, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Japano-Koreanic

Hi Kanguole! Just curious: do have this page on your radar? And what's you take on Francis-Ratte & Unger (2020)? I find the whole OUP volume by Robbeets quite challenging for our gauging of what is mainstream. –Austronesier (talk) 13:48, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

@Austronesier: messes like that page just seem too much trouble to clean up. Regarding Francis-Ratte & Unger, I was rather put off by Table 39.1. Vovin is scathing about Francis-Ratte's thesis (and Robbeets) in his chapter in the Oxford Research Encyclopedia of Linguistics (another example of lax OUP editing). I agree about the book: it's a very odd mixture. I don't understand how the general editors could have commissioned the volume. Kanguole 18:36, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Maybe an Oxford Guide of Nostratic edited by Bomhard and Starostin the Younger is already in the making? :) Anyway, the list of volumes in preperation looks promising. I have seen bits of the Uralic and Atlantic guides, and a bit more than just bits from the Malayo-Polynesian guide.

As for the Comparison of Japanese and Korean-article, I'd probably better unwatch it. Hopefully I'll still get to hear the blast when someone takes on the task to TNT it. –Austronesier (talk) 18:32, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

RfC notice

This is a neutral notice sent to all non-bot/non-blocked registered users who edited Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Linguistics in the past year that there is a new request for comment at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Linguistics § RfC: Where should so-called voiceless approximants be covered?. Nardog (talk) 10:53, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Late Shang

Hey, I stumbled across User:Kanguole/LateShang when working on History of music#Xia, Shang, Zhou and Warring States and found it very informative. I don't know whether you plan to continue with it, but I would certainly encourage you to do so!—it would be a tremendous addition to WP. It seems that most dynasty articles lack much (if any) information on music (even the FAs Han dynasty and Tang dynasty!) I'm considering taking a crack at a music section in the Shang dynasty article at some point... I could attempt to do the same at the Late Shang, should you decide to pursue it further. Aza24 (talk) 21:44, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

@Aza24: Thanks. I'm slow, but do intend to keep pushing it along – there's a lot to it. I know very little about music, but you've been doing great work at History of music, and the Chinese history articles do have a gap in that area. It seems the main source for Shang (mostly Late Shang) is Tong's thesis. It's very detailed, though he does seem to have a tendency to go for a musical interpretation of obscure characters, and I'm not sure how widely accepted these are. Kanguole 22:32, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Indeed Tong's work is monumental, but yes I've noticed as well that he has a preponderance of individual interpretations, something which I've had to treat carefully. Thankfully there is much to be found as well in both Music in the Age of Confucius, many Grove articles and a few other sources. Since I'm here—I finished working on Cai Lun and am now looking for a new interesting Chinese history biography (preferably a non-Emperor/Warlord) to spend some time on. I was considering Boyi and Shuqi, but if you have any suggestions, I'm all ears... though, I realize this is a broad scope! Aza24 (talk) 22:45, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Dravido-Korean languages‎

Thank you for your contribution to the wiki. Anyway, I've completed a wiki revision to the Byeonhan confederacy. Would you like to take a look at this? Jhp3822 (talk) 04:40, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

Subsections in the language list of Dravidian languages

Just a heads-up, this April 2020 edit of yours broke some links to the sections you removed, such as from the redirect South Dravidian. Maybe the redirect should be retargeted to Dravidian languages § Classification, but a more durable and therefore preferrable solution, I think, would be to add aliases (anchors – see #3) for the sub-branches to the section title "Classification". --Florian Blaschke (talk) 14:17, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

@Florian Blaschke: Thanks for the heads up. I think I've fixed all the broken links. Hopefully "Classification" should be robust, since it's a recommended section name for language articles. Kanguole 15:15, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

True. It just occurred to me that of course, anchors could also be added at appropriate points within the section (before every {{tree list}}). --Florian Blaschke (talk) 12:51, 14 October 2021 (UTC)

ArbCom 2021 Elections voter message

Hello! Voting in the 2021 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 6 December 2021. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate in the 2021 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:24, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Taiwan Talk

@Kanguole: Hello, just wondering whether it's good to go ahead & finalize our wording in this discussion or whether you're still on the fence or plan on proposing changes. WikiwiLimeli (talk) 10:53, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

@WikiwiLimeli: I've responded there. Kanguole 11:08, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	Thanks for your kind attention. 589q (talk) 03:14, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Schoolsfinder

Template:Schoolsfinder has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:04, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Dravidian languages

Why "Iranian platue" should be particularly mentioned when the cited sources and the section Dravidian_languages#Proposed_relations_with_other_families mentions multiple hypothesis involving Ural, near East and others?

My edit only restored the original wording as appeared on long standing version before [1] and if you check a little more earlier version, you will find that it used to stay above the last para on the lead.[2]

I hope you restore my edits. 182.77.123.221 (talk) 02:11, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

moved to the article talk page and answered there. Kanguole 22:59, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Hey

I'm here to ask why did you remove the file that I put into Vietnamese language, it's just about the native speaker recording himself speaking native language. Like in Thai language, Indonesian language,.. it always contains a video of a native speaker speaking their language. I wonder why did you remove that file out. Thanks! - Victor311 (talk) - 04:53, March 28th, 2022 (UTC)

@Victor311: Sorry, that was a mistake. I've put it back, but in the Phonology section, where it seems most useful. Kanguole 08:33, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

"Gold–Silver Ratio" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Gold–Silver Ratio and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 April 14#Gold–Silver Ratio until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. NotReallySoroka (talk) 00:04, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 19

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Goguryeo language, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Mohe.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:13, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Comprehensive schools in Wiltshire

A tag has been placed on Category:Comprehensive schools in Wiltshire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:53, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Shang terminology

Hey Kanguole, I hope all is well with you. Do you know if the Shang called their rulers kings, as in wáng (王), like the Zhou? I assume such information is unavailable for the Xia. Best – Aza24 (talk) 04:04, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

@Aza24: Yes, they did use 王, e.g. File:Shang dynasty inscribed bone.jpg. Dì 帝 referred to the head of their pantheon, though the origin of the term is unclear. Its use for 'emperor' is much later, though a couple of occurrences in later oracle bones refer to an exalted ancestor. The last two Shang kings are conventionally known as Di Yi and Di Xin, but this is because the first part of a king's name was assigned posthumously and known from records of sacrifices made by later kings, which we don't have for these two. So we use the names Sima Qian used for them. (As it happens, the king referred to in the inscription above is believed to be one or other of these two.) Kanguole 08:49, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

Thank you very much! Kanguole, I have been working with another user on an better formatted, sourced and written list of Chinese monarchs (see User:Aza24/List of Chinese monarchs), inspired by the recent List of Roman Emperors FL. We have a few more dynasties to finish up, but are largely uncertain on how to treat the Pre-Qin periods (and have done the least work on that part of the list). We considered just starting with Qin, but it seemed to inappropriate for a list entitled "Chinese monarchs", not "Chinese Emperors". In addition, given the Xia's general uncertainty, we considered starting with Shang, but it still seemed too unusual to have the first Chinese monarch of the list be Tang of Shang. I am much more comfortable with beginning with Xia and Yu the Great, but then I wonder if giving Xia leaders that much prominence unfairly legitimizes their already dubious historicity. I know this is a lot to throw at you!—but I would be most grateful for your insight on this matter, and any other thoughts you might have on the list's current state. Aza24 (talk) 20:17, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

@Aza24: There's a tension between wanting a consistent presentation and the messiness of history. One solution might be to list emperors and go from Qin to Qing. Regarding what you have, the dates of the late Shang are approximate, but those before Wu Ding are completely speculative, though their names are mostly confirmed in the oracle bones. The Xia rulers, on the other hand, aren't named until Warring States texts and may be completely legendary. Kanguole 21:24, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

It is tempting to just change the scope from Qin to Qing, but I'm concerned that such a page change might be more effort than it is worth. I'm leaning towards Shang-Qing and having a brief blurb over the Xia and earlier dynasties (probably in paragraph form instead of list for those ones). I'm wondering about the Shang Wu Ding+ dates; I see the Shang dynasty article uses the radio carbon dates from Liu et al. (2021). In the list I'm considering presenting both these dates and the XYZ project ones (p. 18). Am I safe to assume that the dates in Loewe & Shaughnessy 1999, p. 25 are outdated?—how they were arrived it is explained on pp. 23–24. Best – Aza24 (talk) 22:04, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

@Aza24: The XSZ project dates are probably more commonly cited these days. The CHAC dates were tentative anyway, and they're not hugely different.

In general, I suspect no evidence can be found to do better than very approximate dates. The most accurate dates are probably the Zhou conquest and the end of Wu Ding's reign, both of which are based on correlating astronomical events with contemporaneous inscriptions, but even with those there is some uncertainty. There's also approximate agreement on the reign lengths of the last two kings, based on counting ritual cycles in oracle bones. Whatever you use, you'll need c.

Liu et al's methodology has problems (see Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Mathematics#Confidence levels in Bayesian analysis) – it's probably safer not to lean heavily on it. Kanguole 22:56, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Comprehensive schools in South Yorkshire

A tag has been placed on Category:Comprehensive schools in South Yorkshire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:00, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Late Shang

By coincidence I saw your draft: User:Kanguole/LateShang. Impressive work! BR/--Bairuilong (talk) 05:32, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

@Bairuilong: Thanks! It's going quite slowly. Kanguole 09:24, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

I am actually consider if I should write the corresponding article for Swedish Wikipedia. ;-) --Bairuilong (talk) 14:21, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

Svg map of Yuezhi migrations

Hi Kanguole! I've tried to update this Svg map File:Yuezhi_migrations.svg with an initial position of the Yuezhi further east (Gansu area). However, it seems my converter doesn't deal with Svg colors... Is there a way you can review the map and re-colorize it? Thank you! पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 11:23, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Regarding the dates, it would probably be better to lower the date for Bactria to around 100 BC, and for northern India to around 50 CE. Best पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 06:04, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Puyo languages and Gaya language

Puyo languages are generally classified as 'Koreanic' in linguistics, following the view of Korean linguist Ki-moon Lee that ancient Korean originated from the common ancestral language of Buyeo and Han.

It seems a bit wrong to classify this hypothetical language family as 'Unclassified'.

And for Gaya language, I think it is good to refer to the language related items of the English version of 'Gaya' Wikipedia.

Linguists, including Vovin and Janhunen, suggest that Japonic languages were spoken in large parts of the southern Korean Peninsula. According to Vovin, these "Peninsular Japonic languages" were replaced by Koreanic-speakers (possibly belonging to the Han-branch).[7][8]

The later Gaya language likely belonged to the Koreanic Han languages.

The genetic diversity in the Gaya Kingdom region is linked to Jomon-related ancestry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.230.224.218 (talk • contribs) 02:09, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

It would be better to raise these issues on the article talk pages. Kanguole 07:13, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Middle schools in Leicestershire

A tag has been placed on Category:Middle schools in Leicestershire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:07, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Shang navbox

Shouldn't {{Kings of Shang}} have the Yin period begin with Wu Ding? Or am I mislead here? Aza24 (talk) 05:09, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

@Aza24: The historical period begins with Wu Ding, but the Yin period traditionally begins with the change of capital under Pan Geng. (The name "Yin" and this change of capital are not attested in contemporaneous documents, but this is the later tradition.) Kanguole 12:42, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Ah I see! I tried a subgrouping on the template now—do you think this is an improvement? Aza24 (talk) 19:20, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

@Aza24: I'm a bit uneasy with the mixing of terms from archaeology and traditional history. "Early Shang" usually refers to the Erligang period, while "Late Shang" is the Anyang period, and there is also a "Middle Shang" covering the Xiaoshuangqiao and Huanbei sites. But there is no evidence say how these align with the king list. Kanguole 08:58, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

To make it even more complicated: Keightley (2014) define "Early Shang" as Erlitou, "Middle Shang" as Erligang and "Late Shang" as the Oracle bone-period. BR --Bairuilong (talk) 13:37, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

About the Baekje and Jeju languages

Hello, I am sorry to disturb you. I ask for your help because you are a specialist in Koreanic languages. This paragraph on the German language Wikipedia says Baekje language is the ancestor of Jejuan. The source cited is Vovin (2013), but I don't find the exact citation and the page. Maybe this information is available in Unger (2009)? I can't access this book. Can you help me? I am sorry. Rishāringânu 14:38, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

I don't thing there's anything in Vovin (2013) to support that. I don't recall Unger mentioning Jeju at all. Kanguole 16:03, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply.

Indeed, Vovin does not say it clearly, he only says that the language of Tamna was replaced by a Koreanic one. Where can I find Unger's book for free? Or, if you have it in PDF, can you send me it by email? I think it makes sense, the kingdom of Baekje may have replaced the hypothetical Tamna language after centuries of domination (although I do not support this theory). But we have not yet found a source claiming it.

Also, are there any sources mentioning Usan language, other than Sean Kim? I would like writing an article on it if there is one.

Yours sincerly, Rishāringânu 17:48, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

I don't have a copy of Unger (2009) – I consulted a physical copy in a library. I don't know of any sources about Usan. Kanguole 18:15, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Oh I see. I think I will subscribe to Academia to read the book. I'll keep you informed if I have any information.

Have a good evening, Rishāringânu 20:33, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Hello, I think I found the paragraphs to which the German-speaking Wikipedia refers:

"[...] the interesting case in question is the possible replacement of a Japonic language by a Koreanic one in Chejudo. [...] It is very well known that until the fifteenth century Chejudo was an independent kingdom with only a tributary relationship to Korea. [...] Chejudo was probably conquered by Koreans well before the fifteenth century,but its original Japonic legacy continued to survive for some time in the original Japonic name for the island as well as in the place names and some specific Chejudo dialect words." (Vovin, 2013, p. 236-237)

The first Koreanic speakers to conquer Tamna was the kingdom of Baekje (speaking Baekje language). But Vovin may be talking about the Goryeo (Middle Korean speaking) dynasty. It's ambiguous. Knowing Vovin's theories and books, I think he is implying that it is Baekje Kingdom, but my analysis is probably not right. Moreover, today the majority believe that Jeju and Korean both descend from Middle Korean.

What do you think ? Rishāringânu 06:48, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

He says he's not sure of the timescale. We shouldn't guess at his meaning if he doesn't make a clear statement. And even if he does make a clear statement, it should be presented as his view rather than a bald statement of fact. Kanguole 10:51, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

I agree and of course that was not the goal. My project is to renovate the section on the classification of the Koreanic languages ​​on the French Wikipedia, because it is where I am mainly active.

Thank you for all and good day. Rishāringânu 11:48, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Good afternoon ! After days of research, I finally found the citation. It is not in Vovin (2013), but in Vovin (2015) at page 250. Sorry for inconvenience. Rishāringânu 15:53, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Varieties of Chinese

Hello, Kanguole! It seems that you may not understand mean and consideration of mine in that article. There is a proper term "zh:东南丘陵" used to describe the mountainous (mainly hilly) and coastal Zones of China, whereas “more mountainous southeast of mainland China” could refer to many zones and obscure information we want to express because there are many definitions for mountainous southeastern China depended on which axis you choice and geography of China is manily rug and hard for unfamiliar readers to find scarce plain and distinguish boundary between the zone and other rug parts of Southern China. Necessarily, it needs some more specific terms, such as Southeastern Hügelland (东南丘陵) to make readers not confused.--波斯波莉斯 (talk) 08:45, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Comprehensive schools in Staffordshire

A tag has been placed on Category:Comprehensive schools in Staffordshire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:15, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Sino-Uralic

Hi Kanguole! The Sino-Uralic article has become a soapbox for the pet theory of a single researcher. I have removed one source which was inserted to push the claim of "positive interest", although it was just a conferece summary. Since I cannot fluently read Chinese, I want to ask you for help to have a look at the Chinese sources to check if they really substantially cover the Sino-Uralic hypothesis. Austronesier (talk) 22:58, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

@Austronesier: The Jiang Jicheng et al reference is basically an annotated bibliography, saying this of Gao:

近年来,Gao Jingy(2019)利用语源学方法论证汉语与乌拉尔语系同源。这与人类的基因研究有某种对应,如汉族中有乌拉尔族特色的N单倍群,该研究值得关注。

Google translate does a pretty good job on that. I don't have access to the Feng Zheng reference. Kanguole 23:37, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

ArbCom 2022 Elections voter message

Hello! Voting in the 2022 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 12 December 2022. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2022 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:42, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Comprehensive schools in Tyne and Wear

A tag has been placed on Category:Comprehensive schools in Tyne and Wear indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:04, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

Old Japanese 露出・被覆 vowel pairs

Hello Kanguole, re: your recent edit at Old Japanese, I was curious about your inclusion of 毛 in the list. Perhaps I'm just blanking, but for the life of me, I can't think of any cases where this manifests as ka-. See also wikt:Talk:毛#Etymology_/_reconstruction, where I discussed this some with another editor at EN Wikt who is quite keen on reconstructing Proto-Japonic. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 23:10, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

@Eirikr: Vovin says the only uncontroversial occurrences are ka-sasi 'hairpin' (citing Shirafuji) and sira-ga. The latter doesn't look like a covert form, and I can't find the former in the ONCOJ corpus. I think I'll drop it. Kanguole 23:22, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

Vovin's mention is interesting; I'm not familiar with any ka-sasi, only kanzasi -- then again, probably kanzashi, since the earliest cite I can find is the mid-Heian, when I think ⟨si⟩ had already affricated to /ɕi/. in monolingual JA references that I've seen, they all source かんざし to older かむさし, as a shift from かみさし, where かみ is unsurprisingly 髪.

I suppose it's possible that かみ might reflect some putative 被覆形 ka- of 毛 + some unknown element -mi... but given the apparent paucity of any other likely instances of 毛 as ka-, I'm loath to claim the existence of a ka- form on such meager evidence.

Thanks for looking into it!  :) ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 00:19, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Comprehensive schools in West Yorkshire

A tag has been placed on Category:Comprehensive schools in West Yorkshire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:34, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Comprehensive schools in Yorkshire

A tag has been placed on Category:Comprehensive schools in Yorkshire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:34, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

Notice of talk page discussion alerts re ISBNs

I've posted "Interested editors [in ISBN hyphenation] are invited to look at WT:ISBN#Hyphens in ISBNs" on various related talk-pages – S. Rich (talk) 02:38, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Dialectology: grammar fix

Hello, can you point me to which definition of "treats" you intended by removing "on" in "Dialectology treats such topics as divergence of two local dialects from a common ancestor and synchronic variation." Thanks.-- Quisqualis (talk) 14:56, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

@Quisqualis: Shorter OED 2a: "verb trans. Deal with or represent (a subject) in literature, art, etc." I had never seen "treat on", but I see it is there as 2b. Kanguole 15:24, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

I'm in the US and had never before seen "treat" used that way. I suggest that we use "deals with" instead, for the sake of future, younger readers. Shall I go ahead?--Quisqualis (talk) 15:42, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

@Quisqualis: Sure, that should work in both varieties. Kanguole 15:57, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

ISBN hyphenization ANI discussion

Hello. Please note -- I commented on the talk pages of 2 of the WP editors who contributed to the ANI discussion. This was better than "replying" in the ANI to merely rehash the arguments. Thanks. – S. Rich (talk) 03:33, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Closing the ANI

I think we can agree to disagree. Since you favor hyphens in the ISBNs, you should go ahead and "format" them in articles that interest you. I simply ask that the result is a consistent citation style throughout the article. On the other hand, I favor consistency in article citations -- even if that means removing hyphens. I'll make an editing judgment as to which way to go article-by-article. Today I worked on Operation Rolling Thunder. It has 29 ISBNs. Three of them had hyphens. Rather than "format" 26 ISBNs to provide hyphens, I simply removed hyphens and achieved a consistent citation style. Regarding the ANI, no Admin is going to come along and say "S. Rich, stop removing hyphens!" So I recommend we both stay away from the ANI thread. If no one comments for 6 days it will automatically archive. Also, I'll try to use the format ISBN template where I see it can promote consistency. Thanks. – S. Rich (talk) 00:36, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

@Srich32977: You should respond there, not here. Kanguole 08:27, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

@Kanguole: Ang-yang-ha-sa-yo. I just did some ISBN-hyphenation converts on 'Communications' into a Clean and Consistent, citation-style. (At least I hope so.) Would you please review my edits and follow-up with any additional needed corrections? Kam-sa-ham-ni-da. – S. Rich (talk) 07:06, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

@Srich32977: As User:Izno said, consistency does not justify removing correctly-placed hyphens. You should stop doing that. (Also, there's no need to ping a user when writing on their talk page, and my username isn't Korean.) Kanguole 10:09, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 14

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Mandarin Chinese, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Ili.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:36, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Bactria

Is not just the history of North Afghanistan alone it is the history of the entire country of Afghanistan some parts of Uzbekistan and Tajikistan is not important, but the majority of Afghanistan is even Afghan Tajiks are more genetically close to Pashtuns then they are to Tajiks of Tajikistan itself as well as Pashto the language of the Pashtuns is said to be descended or quite close to Bactrian itself. 2402:E280:3D48:133:DCBE:D886:B3F0:CB7C (talk) 09:26, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

moved to Talk:Bactria#Most of modern-day Afghanistan?. Kanguole 16:11, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

2402:E280:3D48:133:5D33:FCF:F227:147B (talk) 18:26, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Low German

Low German is Seen by Most linguists as an independent language. The middle Low German Language is totally seen as Independent language cause it ass mot just an Abstand language but also an Ausbau language. So please don't remove this. (-: Westfäölsk Meyewiärker (talk) 15:33, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

@Westfäölsk Meyewiärker: The dialect continuum article is about dialect continua, not languages. The West Germanic continuum includes all the German dialects. Kanguole 15:37, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, but Low Saxon must be distinguished by High German and Middle Low Saxon anyway, because it was not a german dialect at all. (-: Best wishes Westfäölsk Meyewiärker (talk) 08:14, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Category:History of the Chinese script has been nominated for renaming

Category:History of the Chinese script has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Remsense聊 21:11, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Appreciation

I've appreciated your longstanding presence on Chinese language articles—I know I've been very active lately, and I'm glad to know if I accidentally make an error, that you will likely catch it, since I'm relatively new to this sort of thing. :) — Remsense聊 13:34, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Why you reverted my edits

I get this updates from websites Bingotedha (talk) 11:39, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

@Bingotedha: Please discuss this at Talk:List of languages by number of native speakers. The lists in that article are taken from single sources, which are cited next to them, to ensure consistent criteria. Kanguole 11:51, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message

Hello! Voting in the 2023 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 11 December 2023. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2023 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:28, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Draft review

hey! as you know I've been trying to restructure the Chinese characters article to be the best it can be, I've appreciated your input an awful lot, and I think the new structure is in place at Draft:Chinese characters now.

If you have the inclination, would you want to take a look? I'm not planning on swapping it in one edit, but doing it in logical sections so as to make it easy to review like we've previously talked about. But I want to make sure it's sound so I don't spend another few months iterating on it, hahaha. Thanks in advance! Remsense留 03:33, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

New article scopes

Hey! I think I've realized what new articles are sorely needed. It's tough since the categories don't 1∶1 align with the traditional Chinese ones, but I think some article scope centered on xiaoxue (小學) is what I want to write. Chinese philology seems apt enough, right? Remsense诉 14:54, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

@Remsense: I guess so. This looks like a big topic. Kanguole 11:21, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

I am glad I am learning about it, the historical context of many individual efforts (Shuowen Jiezi, etc.) is much clearer to me now. Remsense诉 13:13, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

I need to give you one at some point, so!

		The Chinese Barnstar
		I'm very lucky that I can contribute and learn while surrounded by editors like you. Thank you so much for your work on China- and Chinese-related topics, it's a real inspiration for me.

Remsense诉 02:30, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Reminder to vote now to select members of the first U4C

You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki. Please help translate to other languages.

Dear Wikimedian,

You are receiving this message because you previously participated in the UCoC process.

This is a reminder that the voting period for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) ends on May 9, 2024. Read the information on the voting page on Meta-wiki to learn more about voting and voter eligibility.

The Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) is a global group dedicated to providing an equitable and consistent implementation of the UCoC. Community members were invited to submit their applications for the U4C. For more information and the responsibilities of the U4C, please review the U4C Charter.

Please share this message with members of your community so they can participate as well.

On behalf of the UCoC project team,

RamzyM (WMF) 23:09, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Discord

Howdy, finishing up the Ryukyu stuff today. However, I just had the thought; have you checked out the WP:DISCORD? Me, Remsense, and a few other folks have been working together on some Chinese archaeological and history topics there, and I thought that might be the kinda thing you'd be interested in joining. And I for one would love to have you and your expertise on Shang topics there to poke sometimes! :) Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 18:26, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

@Generalissima: Thanks very much for the invite, but it isn't really my thing. Very happy to talk about these things anywhere on the wiki, though. Kanguole 21:49, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Fair enough! One question I had; in Cambridge's The Archaeology of China (Liu & Chen, 2012), it makes reference to the Erligang state, the Erlitou state, etc. is the idea that the Erligang and Erlitou cultures can be analyzed as cohesive states universal, or is that still debated? Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 22:47, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

It is common, though perhaps Erlitou is a bit controversial. Bagley even calls Erligang an empire. Campbell is a bit skeptical and apt to use scare quotes around "state", but I don't think I've seen him address the issue directly. Kanguole 23:01, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Late Shang

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Late Shang you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Generalissima -- Generalissima (talk) 23:01, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for July 26

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Western Zhou, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page King Cheng.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 09:18, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

@DPL bot: I disambiguated the link. Thanks for working on that article, Kanguole. It's one of those topics I keep meaning to get round to but never do. Folly Mox (talk) (talk page stalker) 09:27, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

@Folly Mox: Thanks. There's still lots to do there if you do find the time. Kanguole 09:32, 26 July 2024 (UTC)