User talk:J Greb/Archive Jul 2011

Marvel Comics images

I removed Category:Marvel comic book covers and Category:Marvel Comics covers from the category "Marvel Comics images", because all of the other subcategories there deal with images, not with covers. The category header even states that it "does not include cover art presented without titles, logos, trade dress, or copy", yet it is listed under a category that does include those images. Besides, both of these categories are already listed as subcategories of Category:Comic book covers. Why should they be listed in both places, when none of the other categories that deal with covers are listed under Category:Marvel Comics images? Fortdj33 (talk) 11:24, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

OK... look at the full headers of both parent an sub cats:

"This category collects images that are scans, screen captures, photos, and/or illustrations of characters and related intellectual properties for which Marvel Comics holds the copyright and/or trademark."

and

"This category collects cover images that are scans, in whole or in part, as published by Marvel Comics. This includes material either owned at the time by Marvel or licensed from other companies. This does not include cover art presented without titles, logos, trade dress, or copy."

The former includes everything we are likely to have a file/image of and that is a Marvel property/product. That includes scans of covers.

The latter is more specific to avoid cover art only getting added to the category but it still contains images that fall under the parent category.

- J Greb (talk) 17:06, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

I think I understand, thank you for clarifying. I'm not trying to cause any problems, I just want to do my part in cleaning up some of the redundancy, with the files that are part of WikiProject Comics. Let me know if there's anything more that I can do. Fortdj33 (talk) 19:13, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

A brownie for you!

Just for cautious reasons and respect. I hope you don't treat my different opinions the wrong way. I know you (and I) are user's that try to resolve differences. Jhenderson 777 19:59, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Guardians by Igle.jpg

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IMDb query

I don't really know how to do this talk stuff. If IMDB isn't accurate, why do they link to it for just about every single movie? Also, besides IMDB watch the end credits and see who is top billing. How about if you make another edit that is disruptive? -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Smartestmanonearth (talk • contribs) 22:21, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Smartestmanonearth (talk) 22:50, 7 July 2011 (UTC)Do I respond on this page or on my page?Smartestmanonearth (talk) 22:50, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

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List of The Amazing Spider-Man comics

Do you think I did enough cutting from the article to remove all plot dumping? Spidey104 17:39, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Film MOS

Don't know if you're watching my talk page or not. But, the poster should be the original theatrical poster of the country of origin.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 18:11, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

See the page note above when you added. <g>

But any way, that's what I thought. That makes what 3 right out of a lot wrong for the editor in question.

- J Greb (talk) 18:15, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

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Orphaned non-free image File:New Batman Adventures cast.jpg

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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 05:09, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:New Batman Adventures cast.jpg

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A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	Thanks for updating some of the G.I. Joe character articles with the proper banners and navboxes! Fortdj33 (talk) 02:44, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Justice League Elite 1 coverart.jpg

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Grant Morrison photo

Hi. Your opinion on what would be the best photo for the Infobox in the Grant Morrison article is requested here. If you could take the time to participate, it would be greatly appreciated, but if you cannot, then disregard; you don't have to leave a note on my talk page either way. Nightscream (talk) 01:30, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Hostess Comic Ad Character Category

Just wondering why my Category entries for Hostess comic ad characters are being dropped.
I am trying to create a comprehensive list, which is difficult when major characters like Aquaman and Batman are getting dropped.
Please let me know if I am doing something wrong.
Thanks Imapaqrat (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:28, 21 July 2011 (UTC).

Hostess Comic Advertisement Campaign

Why do you have such a dislike for the Hostess Comic Ads being documented on wiki? These ads ran for almost 7 years and were sanctioned by Hostess and the Comic Book publisher. It is considered one of the most memorable comic ad campaigns in history. Although the ads are cheesy at today's standard they are iconic and a part of Comic Book and Hostess History.

The Human Torch Hostess ad with Icemaster is one of Frank Millers earliest comic book art.

You have even dropped the Catergory from Catman (comics) which specifically mentions the Hostess Ad in the page itself.

I have spent 100s of hours searching through 10s of 1,000s of comic books to compile the world largest collection of Hostess Comic ads.

I would like to resolve this with you so that I can continue to document the existence of Hostess Comic ads.

Please let me know if you are willing to work with me on this.

Thanks --Imapaqrat (talk) 00:55, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

You've been pointed to one big issue on your talk page - WP:VRS which deals with the absolute need for an artice to be based on reliable, verifiable secondary sources that show that a topic is in fact notable. No sources what so ever have been provided with your edits. This echos the comments to your post at Wikipedia:New contributors' help page/questions#Linking to a Facebook Fan page.

It is also very likely that the article would be tagged for merging into Hostess (brand), especially if you are creating a section there that duplicated the list article. If the campaign can be covered in full within the parent article, a separate article is unneeded. That section would still need to be based on reliable, verifiable secondary sources.

If you are relying on your own work with the primary sources, which your statements indicate, then you are engaging in original research which has no place on Wikipedia. If you want to publish this type of primary research, please do it elsewhere.

re: Catman. You're right - an unsourced, one line piece of trivia mentions the use of the character in an ad. A line that is questionable for inclusion in the article. However, that does not justify adding the category to articles that never mention Hostess or the add campaign, adding it to fictional objects, or vehicles, or places, or real places. Adding the information about the campaign, much less the category, would need reliable, verifiable secondary sources showing that the publisher licensing the character for the campaign was notable. Not just that the adds ran.

- J Greb (talk) 01:32, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Have you not ready any Bronze age comics? Have you not seen that those ads exist? If you wanted to take a few minutes and search the web about Hostess Comic Ads, you would see dozens of thread related to them. Since nobody has 'cited' them before, I guess they don't exist. I'm done. The Wiki Nazi win again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Imapaqrat (talk • contribs) 01:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

J Greb, are you the Nazi, or is it me? Drmies (talk) 02:22, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm glad you guys think it's funny. It took one day for you to run off a new Wiki person. Is that what you're trying for?--Imapaqrat (talk) 03:03, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, but I don't like being called a Nazi. No one wants to run you off, but it seems that you don't understand one of our core policies--WP:V. Things are properly verifiable only by reference to reliable sources, and that means published, secondary information in those things that are deemed reliable, as set out in WP:RS. And I don't like being called a Nazi. Drmies (talk) 03:07, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

@Drmies

Or any other editors that have chimed in.

@Imapaqrat

I'm sorry you feel that working within the guidelines is to constraining. I'm sorry you are confused about "exists" and "notable". I'm very sorry you feel the need to throw a snit.

FWIW, "running of a new Wiki person" wasn't the intent. Pointing out what should be behind Wikipedia contributions and edits was. Again, I'm sorry if that is found to constraining, but it is what it is.

And Drmies does have a point - you managed to roll what amounts to a personal attack, an uncivil statement, and Godwin's law into one post. Not the best way to win friends and influence Wikipedians.

- J Greb (talk) 03:17, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Imapaqrat, one of the things you could consider is to add references to that unverified section in the main article. A quick Google search brings up a number of books that maybe aren't exactly the Brittanica, but it's better than the nothing there is right now. Now that would be useful to readers, much more useful than doing something which only causes grief and agony. Good luck, Drmies (talk) 03:55, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Alien

" J Greb (talk | contribs) (You have been BOLD and been REVERTED. Please DISCUSS and show consensus before trying again)" I don't like your tone. The guy who reverted me before didn't bother to discuss, though I had already laid out my reasoning on the Talk page. Though now it's 2:1, I will lose, of course. Barsoomian (talk) 05:03, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

1. As the person wanting the bold change, generally it is you who has to garner consensus for it.
2. Edit warring in edit summaries is never the way to go.

Please look at WP:BRD.

- J Greb (talk) 05:06, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Using edit summaries to send patronising messages is not a friendly way to communicate. It's almost guaranteed to offend and create ill will. I was being stubbornly reverted with no discussion on the Talk page. Though I've been editing for years I have no idea how someone can both revert me and lecture me about "edit warring" with a straight face. Regardless, looking at your Talk page above I noticed recent activity, your comment: "Long and short: The article you are adding the category to do not support it. They do not mention the trivial use of the character in Hostess ads. They are unlikely to mention it. Please do not add it." This seems rather a contradiction with your attitude to the Alien template. Barsoomian (talk) 05:22, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

OK

• Sorry if it sounds patronizing, but the general consensus is that if you make a bold change and it is contested you got to the talk page to suggest the change.
• Yes, you were being stubbornly reverted. And you were stubbornly insisting on your way. That is an edit war.
• Last I checked categories and navigation boxes, while similar in some ways, differ widely in content inclusion guidelines. Among those differences is content that is included within an article. It is more routinely used in the evaluation of categories added to an article than articles listed within a template.
• Placing a litmus test of "That article has to mention the others" or "Each article listed in the 'box has to mention the other listed articles" doesn't work since it makes the 'box redundant.

- J Greb (talk) 05:43, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

It's not just WHAT you wrote but that you made it in the edit summary. And I have no way to respond to that characterisation where it will be seen. You have painted a label on me. If you want to send me a message, that's what personal talk pages are for. And why the hell do you keep telling me to "go to the talk page"? I DID go to the talk page after the first revert as you obviously know. My "co-edit-warrer" did not. So by ignoring me, he wins, as apparently my reverts are warring, his aren't. As for the actual question, what you've said amounts to "there is no rule for inclusion". So I must deduce an unstated policy and then achieve consensus to change it. Or just write it off as yet another page run by a closed clique. Barsoomian (talk) 07:43, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

I'll bite... which characterization?

That you edit boldly? That's not a bad one.

That you were reverted? That's an observation, not a characterization.

That the situation was looking like edit warring? Is there a polite way to say that?

As far as Mgiganteus1 is concerned, you do have a point. And I have pointed him to the temapl talk page discussion at this point.

- J Greb (talk) 16:15, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Your first action was to revert and label me as the guilty party. You didn't chide Mgiganteus1 for reverting without discussion.

And thanks for alerting Mgiganteus1. Since then he's gone off to revert me on sundry unrelated articles. He still hasn't bothered to discuss anything though. It seems I'm being "taught a lesson" for butting in.

I feel like I've walked into a bar in the wrong part of town. Barsoomian (talk) 17:25, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Jokerdeath.jpg

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Hello (Fast & Furious 5)

J Greb, would you be willing to take a look at this user with a view to banning him for 24 hours or more? He keeps removing content from the lead of Fast Five that both I and Milahanna keep undoing. We have warned him in stages repeatedly and the user continues to ignore these. The content in question seems to make me think its a fan boy who doesn't like the film.

If you don't think banning is fair, let me know and I'll try RfP but I don't think its bad enough to get protected.Darkwarriorblake (talk) 14:06, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Best (worst?) case, they are IP hopping after getting the "final warning". Blocking the IP would garner nothing. If the pop over to a 3rd IP in the next day or two, then page protection might is one route. Requesting a range block at WP:ANV is another. - J Greb (talk) 16:07, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I will see how it goes. It's easy to see if its the same person or not since it is the exact same edit each time. If it continues I'll go to Rfp or ANV, thanks for the advice. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 19:19, 31 July 2011 (UTC)