User talk:ItsSaminotLapp

Welcome!

Hello, ItsSaminotLapp, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one of your contributions does not conform to Wikipedia's Neutral Point of View policy (NPOV). Wikipedia articles should refer only to facts and interpretations that have been stated in print or on reputable websites or other forms of media.

There's a page about the NPOV policy that has tips on how to effectively write about disparate points of view without compromising the NPOV status of the article as a whole. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the Questions page, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, to ask for help on your talk page, and a volunteer should respond shortly. Below are a few other good links for newcomers:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Questions or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome!  WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 20:00, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

March 2021

Hello, I'm WikiDan61. Wikipedia is written by people who have a wide diversity of opinions, but we try hard to make sure articles have a neutral point of view. Your recent edit to Sámi people seemed less than neutral and has been removed. If you think this was a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 21:06, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

New message from Cassiopeia

Hello, ItsSaminotLapp. You have new messages at WikiDan61's talk page.
Message added 01:36, 2 March 2021 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Cassiopeia^(talk) 01:36, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

March 2021

You have been blocked indefinitely from editing because it appears that you are not here to build an encyclopedia.

If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text below the block notice on your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.  331dot (talk) 02:11, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Since you seem to only be interested in calling us genocide deniers when that couldn't be further from the truth, and because you have failed to take the advice given to you, I have blocked you from editing. If you choose to abide by the advice you have been given and pick a more collaborative attitude, you may request unblock. 331dot (talk) 02:15, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

I endorse this block. I gave this editor both advice and a warning at WP:HELP DESK and they chose to double down on disruptive editing. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 02:23, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Think about this

I am Jewish. My late father-in-law was born in the U.S. in 1914 to recent immigrant parents from the Russian Empire, later part of the Soviet Union and an area that is now Belarus. In the 1930s when he was a young man, he and his parents were in communication with almost 100 aunts, uncles and cousins in and around the city of Borisov. Then, Nazi Germany invaded. By the end of the war, every single one of his relatives had been murdered by the Nazis. I could tell similar stories about other branches of my family, but that one is stark and simple. I do not take well to being accused of helping cover up genicide denial because that is demonstrably false. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 02:48, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

My people were in those holocaust camps with yours. I would never deny any of the many Jewish genocides. I would never call a Jewish person a slur. I study Jewish history because I believe in keeping all cultures alive. Yours is acknowledged by the world, mine is thrown in my face on Wikipedia. I get shouted at on the internet. My peoples genocides are largely unacknowledged and now there are so few of us that people say "why does it matter?" "What would you even do with Sapmi back?" Did that stop the Jewish people fighting for themselves?

Amos says the worst thing you can do is abandon social justice. That is what is happening here today. He preached elevate the voices of the oppressed. Do not oppress. ItsSaminotLapp (talk) 02:49, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

It is entirely up to you to choose whether you will be a productive Wikipedia editor who accomplishes good things, or a disruptive editor who is blocked forever. Disruption will not be tolerated. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 02:56, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

I put up 14 sources to someone who told me my genocide did not happen and they told me to forgive them instead of even apologizing.

Yes, I was upset. This is a triggering topic to people who understand. I get shouted down literally every time I try to assert that calling us Lapp is offensive.

I don't even care that the article edit was reverted. I do care that this person denied the genocide of my people and then told me to forgive them.

Is that so wrong? I stopped arguing about the article, you admitted the behavior is not OK and then, what? I was told to stop talking.ItsSaminotLapp (talk) 03:05, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Yes, your behavior has been wrong by Wikipedia's standards as a collaborative project. You were told several times that the proper place to discuss the content dispute was Talk:Sámi people and you didn't make a single comment there but instead continued rampaging around in anger. Maybe you can take some time to calm down and take some time to learn about Wikipedia's policies and guidelines and behavioral expectations, and then take some time formulating an unblock request that addresses your behavior rather than your perception of others. Self reflection, in other words. Or you can stomp away in rage. The choice is yours. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:19, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

@Cullen328: Have I shown you rage here? I gave you empathy. I talked about your religion and your religious teachings. I tried to show that I care about the pain you have experienced.@CASSIOPEIA: is the only person to show me any empathy in this entire process.

I just feel completely ignored. I feel like it doesn't matter what I say, I get the same responses.

I am not saying that you expressing rage toward me. My job as an administrator is to protect the encyclopedia and its good faith, productive editors. And your disruptive rage is obvious to everyone you've interacted with. You say that you are ignored but you are getting far more attention than the 99% of editors who work in a calm, non-confrontational way with attention coming to them rarely, maybe in the form of an occasional brief thanks. Wikipedia is not a forum for attention seeking. Why don't you work on an unblock request instead? Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:35, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

@Cullen328: being given attention and being listened two are two completely different things. How would you feel if the article about the holocaust was actually a holocaust denial? Then when you try to talk about it you are told it didn't happen. Then you give proof and the person is just like "huh." Then people just say he did the right thing per Wikipedia's rules. Wouldn't that feel like genocide denial hiding behind rules? How would you respond? It is different for us, because the atrocities committed against your people are so well known, while, my peoples bodies are still in storage from their "genetic inferiority exhibit."

I just wanted acknowledgement of the situation and an apology since the fourth message, approximately. That is being listened too. That is what I would consider "not being ignored." The Jewish faith preaches social justice for all, not just Jewish people. How do you not understand me? How do you not understand my pain? My feelings? How can you, a person with direct ties to the holocaust, tell me that I should be impassive in contradicting genocide denial? The Jewish faith is social justice over all.

Wikipedia is not a website for advocating social justice. It has never been, is not now, and never will be. It is an encyclopedia, and our job here is to neutrally summarize what reliable sources say about notable topics. I've been involved with social justice advocacy since 1968, but I do so off-Wikipedia, not here. Instead of advocating for social justice, we write neutral, well-referenced articles about topics with social justice implications. Exactly as we do for topics related to medical conditions, financial instruments, butterflies, asteroids, cannons, subatomic particles, flowering plants and automobiles. We do not rant and rave about any of that. We strive to write neutrally, collaboratively, and without attacking our fellow editors. When editors depart from those standards, they get blocked. Some are blocked briefly because they correct their behavior. Others are blocked for many years because they refuse to abandon disruption. If you crave apologies or affirmation of your pain, then Wikipedia may not be the right place for you. This website is not a therapy session. I get my personal affirmation elsewhere. If you would be satisfied with improvement of the article Sámi people instead, then that is very possible, if you engage in a dramatic course correction.

Your next step is a well written and properly formatted unblock request. Endless recitation of grievances is counterproductive. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:30, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

@Cullen328: Sorry to hear about your family history and same to you ItsSaminotLapp. Calm down ItsSaminotLapp, do listen to our advice and read the guidelines. Naming calling and ranting are disruptive but learn to be a constructive, collaborative, and civil editor are welcome for it will serve you a long way in Wikipedia. Stay safe and best. Cassiopeia^(talk) 03:13, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, Cassiopeia. The only reason I told that family story here was to encourage this new editor to reconsider their style of interaction with other editors. I despise racism and hatred of all types but believe that the best way to combat that dark aspect of human behavior is to present neutrally written summaries of reliable sources about racism and hatred. I've been doing that type of work for almost 53 years. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:27, 2 March 2021 (UTC)