User talk:Ilmari Karonen/archives/13

Speedy deletion of Template:Ahnentafel-compact2

A tag has been placed on Template:Ahnentafel-compact2 requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section T3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a deprecated or orphaned template. After seven days, if it is still unused and the speedy deletion tag has not been removed, the template will be deleted.

If the template is intended to be substituted, please feel free to remove the speedy deletion tag and please consider putting a note on the template's page indicating that it is substituted so as to avoid any future mistakes (<noinclude>{{transclusionless}}</noinclude>).

Thanks. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:26, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Template:Ahnentafel-compact3

A tag has been placed on Template:Ahnentafel-compact3 requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section T3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a deprecated or orphaned template. After seven days, if it is still unused and the speedy deletion tag has not been removed, the template will be deleted.

If the template is intended to be substituted, please feel free to remove the speedy deletion tag and please consider putting a note on the template's page indicating that it is substituted so as to avoid any future mistakes (<noinclude>{{transclusionless}}</noinclude>).

Thanks. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:26, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Template:Ahnentafel-compact6

A tag has been placed on Template:Ahnentafel-compact6 requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section T3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a deprecated or orphaned template. After seven days, if it is still unused and the speedy deletion tag has not been removed, the template will be deleted.

If the template is intended to be substituted, please feel free to remove the speedy deletion tag and please consider putting a note on the template's page indicating that it is substituted so as to avoid any future mistakes (<noinclude>{{transclusionless}}</noinclude>).

Thanks. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:26, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Sorry

To trouble you but you are the most helpful techy I know... Why is updating the interwiki list a manual process which gets forgotten about? Does Brion have to do this? As far as I can see the list updates every few days but the database updates are very slow/ not even monthly. Shouldn't it all be automatic? See http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Interwiki_map and https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12763 --BozMo talk 11:15, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Geni = Genisock2

I feel that a sig that linked to two separate accounts would give even more room for confusion.Genisock2 (talk) 11:04, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Hmm

"If you should happen to have an open bottle of vinegar in one hand while spilling sodium hydroxide on the other, by all means rinse with the vinegar first."... Risk of scalding burns from this? Especially if the NaOH was very conc?--BozMo talk 22:09, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Hmm indeed... probably not, if I did my math right. Looks like neutralizing concentrated (30M) NaOH with 10% (1.66M) vinegar ought to raise the temperature of the resulting mix by only 21K. Less if the NaOH isn't so concentrated or if you use excess vinegar, but ultimately it's the water-to-acetic acid ratio in the household vinegar that limits the temperature increase to less than about 22.3K. Even a stoichiometric mix of 5M acetic acid + conc. NaOH shouldn't heat up by more than 60K — nasty enough, but no worse than spilling hot coffee (25°C + 60K = 85°C). Especially when compared to the chemical burns from the concentrated NaOH in the first place. Besides, 5M acetic acid isn't something you should be washing your hands with anyway, NaOH or no NaOH. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 08:50, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Not completely convinced, since neutralising is not a likely immediate outcome. Doesn't the main heating come from the dilution of the NaOH by the water and the acid just gives you an extra unhelpful few dozen degrees? Caustic soda plus water gets to temperatures which will ignite wood. It would have to be a pretty big bottle of vinegar to neutralise a reasonable quantity of conc NaOH. Either way the priority is as much water as you can possibly get in whatever form, I think.--BozMo talk 12:55, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

You mean if the NaOH is in solid form? If you get solid NaOH on your skin, I'd say the first thing to do would be to brush as much as possible of it off with something dry — unless the NaOH is in very fine powder form, most of it won't cling to dry skin. Anyway, the enthalpy of dissolution of solid NaOH is somewhat less than the enthalpy of neutralization (44.45 kJ/mol vs. 55.90 kJ/mol). (There should be some heat released from the dilution of concentrated aqueous NaOH, but I can't find the necessary figures to calculate that on Wikipedia; in any case, it's likely to be rather less than the heat of dissolution from solid form.) Of course, the difference is that it only requires a rather small amount of water (or vinegar) to dissolve a mole of NaOH, so the heat can be concentrated in a smaller total mass; that's exactly why one should use copious water (or other liquid) for washing off caustic chemicals.

Anyway, I've been assuming that we're dealing with such amounts of NaOH as might reasonably end up on one's hands after an accidental spill (and the natural "get it off me!" shaking reaction), which is rather less than even the contents of a typical vinegar bottle. If, on the other hand, you have the misfortune to get a gallon of concentrated NaOH dumped on your head and clothes, you're not going to be trying to rinse it off with vinegar anyway — you're going to be running around in blind panic and screaming your head off, hopefully with sufficient presence of mind to head in the general direction of the nearest shower or pool of water. In any case, I stand by my conclusion that ordinary household vinegar, if applied quickly and in sufficient amounts, should be perfectly safe and effective for washing NaOH off skin — just not particularly more effective than an equivalent amount of plain water. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 12:45, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Ok, you win. I was thinking of a cup of liquid NaOH which was conc enough to be viscous or powder onto wet skin, as might be tipped down a drain to unblock it. But I cannot see that the question is likely to be of much use. My vinegar bottle has this sort of drip nozzle on it so I would die of boredom before burns anyway. Incidentally wouldn't you have to be informed to scream? People who have had glove leaks often don't seem to notice until the damage is considerable? --BozMo talk 12:53, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Could well be, I haven't tried it myself. I've managed to expose my hands briefly to about 2M–5M NaOH, and it indeed just made the skin feel soapy; I didn't wait around to see what leaving it there for longer might've done. Anyway, if you literally did have a bucket of the concentrated stuff dumped on your head, I'd expect you'd probably notice. (BTW, if I remember my lab classes correctly, I don't think pure conc. NaOH(aq) is particularly viscous — it's the other stuff in drain cleaning fluid that makes it like that. I guess the worst-case scenario might be pouring fine powdered solid NaOH over wet skin.) —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 13:10, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Downsize help

Hi,

Of what I can see you have some experience with Wiki templates. I am trying to import the Downside template to the Romanian Wikipedia, but I ran into some problems. First I translated the title, but it gave me an error, so I leaved it with the original title, but the error was still there.

The error is that even though the template page looks fine, there is no effect in the actual pages, where it's being used. I can't figure it out, and i would really appreciate it, if you'd help me.
The Romanian template page is here. At the moment, the template's name is in Romanian. If possible, i'd like it to stay like that. Thanks in advance! diego_pmc (talk) 14:42, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

The {{downsize}} template does nothing on its own — it only adds a marker which is detected by some JavaScript code in MediaWiki:Common.js. However, it looks like the Romanian Wikipedia already has the same code installed (look for the text "ÎNCEPUT repararea titlurilor cu iniţială mică"), so I'm not sure why it doesn't work. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 15:25, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the answer. I can't edit the page anyway, so I'll ask some Romanian admin, to see what's wrong. diego_pmc (talk) 15:55, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

'tyop'

Nyuck nyuck nyuck... HalfShadow (talk) 19:28, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Fixing userscripts

• I noticed your edit in «Scripts/Logs link» and I thought maybe you could make another edit and remove (now duplicate) "user logs" link (as I mentioned here) —AlexSm 20:50, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I've removed the special case and generally simplified the script. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 21:29, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

• I guess you didn't notice this message a couple of months ago; enhanced watchlist moved to table design since then, but in any case, I think it would be nice to mention that your watchfilter script is not only obsolete, but simply doesn't work with "Enhanced Recent Changes" option. —AlexSm 20:50, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

And thanks for this note too. I've marked the script as obsolete and no longer maintained, and added an explicit note about the bug to the copy on WP:JS. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 21:29, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Search scripts

		The Where Has Your Script Been All These Years Award
		It is my honour to present the very prestigious Where Has Your Script Been All These Years Award to Ilmari Karonen and PhilKnight for their work on search scripts leading to the "search links" user script. Thanks, Merzul (talk) 14:31, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Re: AN

If you really feel keeping Category:Gaelic Athletic Association clubs in County Sligo or Category:Eyptian rabbis or Category:FIPS 10-4 (whatever that is) around is vitally important, I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree. --MZMcBride (talk) 04:31, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I certainly don't think keeping such categories around is vitally important. I just don't see what the "great need" to delete them is, either. Sure, I might delete such unused categories myself if I come across them and have nothing better to do, but if not, I don't really see how their continued existence would harm anyone. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 04:45, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Your RBAG

A left you a few questions, Enjoy! --Chris 12:49, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Rabbit and hip dysplasia (human)

Thanks so much for your help with that picture. It just didn't look right. I had a peek at your user page and noticed you speak both Finnish and Swedish. If I may bother you with a task of contacting someone at those Wikipedia sites. I'm cooperating on the Hip dysplasia (human) page. It is a condition that occurs with higher frequency in some northern ethnic populations. I was wondering if they have a "Village Pump" or "Science reference desk" where we could ask someone some questions, but of course there's this language barrier to making contact. If I could burden you with asking a couple of questions there I'd be very delighted. What would be most valuable currently would be:

• Any notable historical local surgeons or doctors, events, discoveries, or treatment procedures with dates, description and reference.
• Any specific ways of treatment that are different than elsewhere. (with sources)
• When was the condition first recognized there (as a medical condition). (with sources)
• Are there any local traditions that would encourage hip dysplasia. (swaddling, cradle board etc.) OR were other risk factors identified locally (referenced)
• Study/studies of incidence (how often it occurs per X births) in different local ethnic populations (with sources)

The sources can be in the local language, but have to be wikisafe. I hope we can find one or two people who are able and willing to help out. Thanks in advance for your effort. Please feel free to leave questions or comments on the discussion page of Hip dysplasia (human) or on my talk page Lisa4edit. --Lisa4edit (talk) 06:37, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

I'll try looking into this, but it would be easier if I even knew what hip dysplasia was called in Finnish (or Swedish for that matter). I have a hunch that synnynnäinen lonkkaluksaatio (lit. "congenital hip luxation") may be the relevant term, but I'm not sure if it has the exact same scope or means something slightly different. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 23:41, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Cato Research AfD

I've dropped a note on the creator's talk page with a link to the relevant guidelines. I think the company might well be sufficiently notable, it's always hard to tell when it's obviously written by their PR department. Regards, Espresso Addict (talk) 02:34, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Nitrogen prices

"I hear the low-grade 78% stuff is really cheap." Damn, you cracked me up with that one. I don't normally praise jokes at the reference desk, but that line really made me laugh. Thanks. -- HiEv 15:06, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

RE ANI Prison IP

Thank you for taking that post seriously Ilmari Karonen. I was a bit surprised at how casual other people seem to have been about it. I've been on WP for nearly 2 years and I've seen a lot more fuss made of less-serious looking edits. Anyway thanks for notifying the server admin - as I said on ANI I don't know how to do this (and the reason I didn't push for somebody else to do so was becuase I was being told that the issue wasn't serious). Thanks again for looking at it--Cailil ^talk 00:23, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Re: Wally West

Thanks for your help! I had considered the archive solution, but was concerned that doing so might be "bad form". I wanted to make sure that I moved the content in the right way. Based on your advice, I'll go ahead and archive the old talk page. --GentlemanGhost (talk) 21:35, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Cannot create a subpage in my userspace

Hi. I've complained that I cannot create subpages in my userspace. Can you help? --Петър Петров (talk) 11:03, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

(Note: The next answer is moved here from my talk page so all the talk stays on one place. --Петър Петров)

Sorry about that, it was indeed my mistake. I've fixed the problematic rules so that they're no longer applied to user pages. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 14:08, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

No problem, I welcome your efforts against vandalism and thank you for what you are doing. Keep up the good work! --Петър Петров (talk) 15:07, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Gyromitra esculenta help

Hi, I noticed you are in Helsinki (I was waiting for someone from Finland to turn up editing this article!). If you have a digital camera i would be extremly grateful for any photos of this mushroom sold in a shop, market or as a tinned product to further illustrate the article. Also if there is any information in Finnish on how to eat it (general recipes). I am trying to work the article up for FAC. All input gratefully appreciated :) Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:34, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the great work you've been doing with the article. It's just getting to be about the right time of the year for fresh false morels, so I'm going to keep my eyes open and try to snap a photo. As for preparation, after boiling they can be used much like any other mushrooms. A common preparation method is to gently sautée the mushrooms in butter in a saucepan (perhaps with some onions) and then add flour and finally milk to yield false morels in bechamel sauce, or, if more fluid is added, a false more soup, both of which can be further flavored e.g. with parsley, chives and maybe some black pepper. (For a specific recipe, see e.g. [1].) A false morel omelette can also be quite tasty. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 22:06, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Cool. I am in Australia so it is a little bit tricky for me to take photos... :) Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:57, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Just as an update, it seems false morel season has started: I just saw some in a store today. I snapped a picture with my cell phone, but of course, being a cell phone and not a real camera, the image quality sucks. Not that the setting was that great either, they were just tucked in a corner of the vegetable shelf. I think I'll go mushroom shopping with my dSLR later this week and see what I'll get. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 23:17, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

(A gentle reminder..) - any luck with some photos from the shops? Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:49, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

PS: I added your cooking note, trying to make it as neutral and encyclopedic as possible - thus:

In Finnish Cuisine, false morels may be cooked in an omelette, or gently sautéed in butter in a saucepan, flour and milk added to make a bechamel sauce. Alternately, more fluid can be added for a false morel soup. Typical condiments added for flavour include parsley, chives and black pepper.

Now I presume the link is a ref for this but I can't speak finnish....Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

These are the last two things before I'll take it to FAC, I just had a very helpful Catalan-speaking person sort out another bit of info so just about ready to roll....Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:14, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Erks. Great photos - added now. I just need a more 'official' ref for recipes - all english guidebooks do is try to dissuade folks eating them, so need a ref on ways they are eaten :( Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:06, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I can try to find some English recipes, or translate some Finnish ones. To start with, here's a quick translation of the page mentioned above:

Although the false morel, when fresh, is quite poisonous, when correctly prepared it is nonetheless a tasty ingredient for cooking. There is unlikely to be much health risk if one consumes correctly prepared false morels only a few times a year. The false morel is well suited for flavoring soups, and it makes a tasty false morel stew to be served as a side dish. The stew may also be served e.g. with fried or smoked salmon, it can be used to fill various kinds of pies, and it also makes an excellent coating sauce where called for. Also in an omelette it makes a tasty treat. The possible used of false morels depend only on the creativity of the cook. For example, finely chopped false morels may be added to crêpe mix, with the crêpes after frying stuffed with e.g. smoked fish or a mix of smetana and roe. Here are a few basic recipes for the use of false morels in cooking.

False morel stew

• 80 g butter or margarine
• chopped false morels
• (chopped onion)
• 80 g wheat flour or mixed wheat and e.g. graham flour
• 1 l cream-milk or e.g. vegetable bouillon
• salt
• (ground black pepper)

Melt the fat in a saucepan, add the correctly prepared and chopped false morels and onion. Sweat briefly in fat, then add the flour. Mix evenly and add the liquid. Stir and let stew until done. Check the taste and add spices as necessary. The stew can also be easily turned into a soup by adding more liquid.

False morel pie

• 2 dl wheat flour
• 1 dl graham flour
• 150 g margarine or butter
• ½ tsp salt
• 1 dl water

stuffing:

• 700 g false morels
• 1 small onion
• 50 g butter
• 3 dl cream
• salt
• pepper
• a dash of sherry

Mix the base ingredients into a pie dough. Prepare the false morel stew as above. Spice it and let it cool. Roll two thirds of the dough flat and line the pie form with it. Press the dough so that you get a few centimeters of dough edges. Add the cooled false morel stew into the form and place a dough lid rolled from the rest of the dough on top of it. Poke holes in the cover and smear with butter. Bake at about 200 °C for 30 to 40 minutes.

The awkward grammar and wording is partly from the original and partly from the translation; the original seems to assume you already know how make a basic bechamel sauce and how to bake a pie, and just gives a rough overview to refresh your memory. You'll note that there's very little in either recipe that's specific to false morels; they're just generic recipes for mushroom stew and pie. I'll try to translate the prologue of the page, which does discuss false morel preparation in more detail, too, but I'll have to take a break now. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 14:40, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I've added a translation of the paragraph immediately above the recipes. Also, the images below are captioned "False morel soup"[2] and "Rolled gravlax with false morel stew"[3]. The remaining text above the translated section consists mostly of a copy of the official false morel preparation instructions and some generic tips for mushrooms hunters (only pick mushrooms you know, etc.), while the bottom half of the page deals with wild celery and doesn't mention false morels at all. I also added a few wikilinks, and clarified one translation: the verb "kuulottaa" is probably closer to sweating than sautéing, though the distinction is pretty fine (and certainly you can do either). —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 17:33, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the translation. The main issue at the moment is I want to take it to FAC and it helps to have a published book as a source. Generally, a personal website would be frowned upon, though I would have thought it would be ok for something as mundane as a recipe, hence I wasn't worried about whether it was in finnish or english, just that I needed a book. I will slot the page in as a reference anyway and cross my fingers... (though I am appreciative of the translation and one day when I come to Finland I may try them :) Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:23, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Re: WP:AN notice

Hi, do you know if Wikipedia or Commons allow more than 1 featured picture per subject? OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 23:31, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Frankly, I haven't the faintest idea. The criteria don't seem to say anything about it: the closest WP:FP? comes is to say that featured pictures should be "among the best examples of a given subject that the encyclopedia has to offer". Commons:COM:I says that "normally there should never be two featured pictures that are just different versions of the same image, so if a better version exists the original version should be delisted", but I don't think the two turtle images are quite similar enough for that to necessarily apply.

In this particular case (and this is really more addressed to Mbz1 directly), I'd suggest bringing the issue up at commons:Commons talk:Featured picture candidates; I'm sure the folks there will be more familiar with the process. If you ask me, though, one possibility might be to try a special "nomination to replace", with voters asked to express the preference to either keep the currently feature image, replace it with the ostensibly better one or, possibly, to feature both. Or just let the current nomination run its course; things may sort themselves out on their own now that the issue has been brought to wider attention. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 23:56, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Common.js breakage

That last edit of yours to MediaWiki:Common.js introduced some syntax errors, including a line that read:

for(new importScript, importStylesheet, and family

I've reverted it for now, would you mind taking a second look at it? —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 01:51, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry about that. I must have pressed Ctrl+V by accident just as I was saving the edit. I'm not picking up any script errors now. Are you? —Remember the dot ^(talk) 02:02, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Seems to be working fine now. Thanks! —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 02:11, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you.--Mbz1 (talk) 15:46, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Edittools error on Safari

I get the following error on Safari 3.1 when I enter the edit window. I don't remember encountering that error yesterday. Yesterday the tools seemed to work:

Value undefined (result of expression token.indexOf) is not object. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Ilmari_Karonen/edittools.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript&nocache=test002 (line 150)

--TheDJ (talk • contribs) 08:40, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! I have a suspicion that it might've been caused by the for-in loop over str.split(' ') iterating over something it shouldn't have, so I changed it to a for(;;) loop. Did that help? —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 08:51, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, now it works again. Good work. --TheDJ (talk • contribs) 09:55, 23 May 2008 (UTC)