User talk:ElvisTheMan

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Donald A. Walker (October 19)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Greenman was:

This submission is not adequately supported by reliable sources. Reliable sources are required so that information can be verified. If you need help with referencing, please see Referencing for beginners and Citing sources.

The comment the reviewer left was:

See WP:COI. Entire sections are also unsourced.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Donald A. Walker and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Greenman (talk) 22:36, 19 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, ElvisTheMan! Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! Greenman (talk) 22:36, 19 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I need more specific feedback. I provided 3 references --- a link to this professor's page at the university he taught at, a link to the History of Economics Society page listing him as a past president, and a link to his resume on his university's website. What else do I need to substantiate?

I looked at the Wikipedia page for a friend's father, who also was a professor, and he only has 4 references. Here is the link to his page. Why is mine lacking in comparison to his?

Katsumi Nomizu ElvisTheMan (talk) 19:35, 26 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Other stuff exists. Some of it is crap. Nomizu is tagged as needing references. Unless the examples you are looking at are rated B-class or better, not worth mentioning as justification. David notMD (talk) 18:38, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Walker image

Are you really claiming that you took that photograph? That it is your "own work"? If not, delete it. David notMD (talk) 19:50, 27 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Donald A. Walker (July 30)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Theroadislong was:

This submission's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article—that is, they do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject (see the guidelines on the notability of people). Before any resubmission, additional references meeting these criteria should be added (see technical help and learn about mistakes to avoid when addressing this issue). If no additional references exist, the subject is not suitable for Wikipedia.

The comment the reviewer left was:

better sourcing required

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Donald A. Walker and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Theroadislong (talk) 11:48, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The first time I submitted this article, I did not understand how Wikipedia worked. It was rejected because I did not have any external sourcing by third parties. I was told that I need to have links to journal papers and books the subject had published.

I provided 7-8 such sources --- journal articles that were highly cited, a chapter in a book about Economist Paul Samuelson in which the subject provided his lifelong correspondence with Samuelson, who was his mentor.

You have rejected the article (within like 2 minutes) for the exact same reason, claiming there isn't 3rd party sourcing. For me to address your concerns I obviously need to know what specific issues you had with those journal articles and book chapter. If you don't tell me which ones you checked, and what problems you had with them, there is no way I can address your concerns. ElvisTheMan (talk) 16:48, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Your draft was declined NOT rejected. The “Early life and education”, “Academic positions” and “Personal” sections are entirely unsourced. Theroadislong (talk) 16:58, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You also had written:

This submission's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article—that is, they do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject (see the guidelines on the notability of people). Before any resubmission, additional references meeting these criteria should be added (see technical help and learn about mistakes to avoid when addressing this issue). If no additional references exist, the subject is not suitable for Wikipedia.

What do you mean Walker did not have significant coverage. Some of his academic papers were cited in 130 or more other papers. Can you be specific? I spent HOURS finding papers to add to this, and there are many more. I did this because the previous reviewer told me if I could find papers he had written that were cited by many others, that would show he was an impactful academic. Now you're telling me something else. How the hell can i take you guys seriously? You declined this article so fast that I don't believe you even examined the sources.

If you can't answer my specific questions, is there another person I can work with who can give me clear direction that does not contradict what I was previously told? ElvisTheMan (talk) 21:58, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why can't you simply add sources to the unreferenced content as requested? You can ask for other opinions here Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk. Theroadislong (talk) 06:03, 1 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I originally had his bio on the Indiana University of Pennsylvania website, and I was told that wasn't a valid source.

What other source do you suggest? He's a bloody PROFESSOR, for God's sake. He was the President of the History of Economics Society. A top Economic Historian. Time Magazine didn't do profile articles on him. The NYT Sunday Magazine didn't cover him.

We should be able to trust that the University that hired him VETTED him, and confirmed he received his PhD at Harvard, for God's sake. And that they therefore published this information on their website. They awarded him the first University Professor prize they ever gave out. They wouldn't do this to a fraud.

So if his own university is not a valid source, just give me a few examples of sources that would be acceptable to you, since you are the one declining. ElvisTheMan (talk) 22:22, 1 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The university is fine to use as a reference for his qualifications, but the "Personal" section requires sourcing, where did you get the content from? Theroadislong (talk) 08:11, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I used to be an Editor and Publisher of Finance and Economics college textbooks, and I met him at an American Economic Association conference in the '90s. I contacted him last year when I realized there was no Wikipedia article about him, and he was ill, so he had me communicate through his daughter, Valerie.

I corresponded with her beginning in July, and at the end of that month her 18-year-old son, Donald's grandson, died in a freak accident.

Donald died in January, 2023. This is his obituary, which mentions that he was married to Patricia, and had a daughter and a grandson. It does not cite the year they were married.

Could I use the obituary as a source, and just remove the year they were married since the year is not given in the obituary? ElvisTheMan (talk) 08:29, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is the obituary, which was published in the Indiana Gazette, which is the newspaper in Indiana, PA, which is where Indiana University of Pennsylvania is located --- the university he taught at: https://www.indianagazette.com/obituaries/dr-donald-anthony-walker/article_302636ff-985d-5940-92e8-c4fe0e4018fa.html ElvisTheMan (talk) 08:35, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

AfC notification: Draft:Donald A. Walker has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Donald A. Walker. Thanks! Theroadislong (talk) 16:59, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You say his early life and education sections are unsourced.

This is the Wikipedia article for a friend's dad, who was a professor of Mathematics. His early life and education sections are totally unsourced. Katsumi Nomizu

This is the article for Harvard Economist Greg Mankiw. His article has 4 sources for the claim that his parents were Ukrainians, and all 4 are from him --- his claiming this in an interview with Bill Kristol, him mentioning this in his own blog.

The next line mentions where he grew up NJ, and worked in Republican politics, and the source for this is an article about him, which cites Mankiw as the source of this information.

So I still need you to clarify what type of source is acceptable, because neither of these articles about a professor meet the criteria. I got this information off of the Indiana University of Pennsylvania website, and I was told that was not a valid source. It seems more valid that Mankiw just telling an interviewer this, because the institution OBVIOUSLY would have vetted his education. ElvisTheMan (talk) 00:11, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

See other crap articles exist for that argument. Theroadislong (talk) 07:16, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is like some kind of ego game. Jesus. I asked a straight-forward question, I really would appreciate an answer, not a link to 15 articles that aren't directly related to what I'm asking.

Can you give me an example of a valid source for a professor's early education? Specific examples? As far as I know, Harvard university does not publish lists of people they graduated. What other source would be valid proof that he received a PhD at Harvard?

If I were to delete the information about his early life, would that be okay?

And it's a valid question to ask why I was told that I need third party sources, not sources created by the subject, to validate the veracity of something, and yet the Mankiw article provides 4 sources to validate his parents were Ukrainian, but when you look at them Mankiw himself was the source. This inconsistency in the application of Wikipedia's policy suggests it's subjective, and that there really isn't a hard and fast policy.

Also, if Nomizu's article needs sources, then why was it published? Can my article be published and include a note saying it needs sources? ElvisTheMan (talk) 21:47, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Managing a conflict of interest

Hello, ElvisTheMan. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about on the page Draft:Donald A. Walker, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a conflict of interest may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. We ask that you:

avoid editing or creating articles about yourself, your family, friends, colleagues, company, organization, clients, or competitors;
propose changes on the talk pages of affected articles (you can use the {{edit COI}} template);
disclose your conflict of interest when discussing affected articles (see Wikipedia:Conflict of interest#How to disclose a COI);
avoid linking to your organization's website in other articles (see Wikipedia:Spam#External link spamming);
do your best to comply with Wikipedia's content policies.

In addition, you are required by the Wikimedia Foundation's terms of use to disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution which forms all or part of work for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation. See Wikipedia:Paid-contribution disclosure.

Also, editing for the purpose of advertising, publicising, or promoting anyone or anything is not permitted. Thank you. Theroadislong (talk) 08:37, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is getting ABSURD. You're just throwing things at me that seem to be irrelevant. So let me spend yet another half an hour explaining to you how your assertion is silly because it does not apply to this situation.

First, I did not say I was a friend of Donald Walker's or had a relationship. I said I met him at a conference 25 years ago at a conference. That was 25 years ago. That would be like saying I met Bill Clinton at a party 25 years ago, and that I therefore have a relationship with him. It's distorted and doesn't apply to this situation. I had not been in touch with him since then. My point is that this was how I first learned about him.

Second, I got his email last year from the school's website and emailed him to ask him about his life for the personal section of the article BECAUSE I THOUGHT PERSONAL SECTIONS WERE REQUIRED --- they seem to be in every article, and I had no source for this. He forwarded the email to his daughter and she replied. She explained that he had cancer and was dying, and that she could answer my questions.

Third, I am not an Economist, so I am not an expert in the subject matter. In fact, I found it quite boring. I was interested in the publishing industry and it was a job I accepted to be an editor. I had actually wanted to be an editor in Religion or Psychology, but there were no such jobs available at that time. So there is no way for my perspective to be distorted. Prior to that I worked at a newspaper, and then at a computer magazine. I also worked at a market research magazine.

Fourth, I got out of the publishing industry in 2004 --- I got an MIS degree and then actually went into market research. So I was involved in Finance for 4 years, and Economics for 3 years, and then moved on. I am have not been involved in the subject matter for 25 years, and I avoid it whenever possible.

So can you answer the previous question? This is crazy --- I've dealt with like 6 different people on Wikipedia over the past year, and everyone has a different opinion and judgment about what I need to do, and I NEVER, EVER get specific suggestions on what I need to do. It's like nobody knows what they're talking about, and there is no common standard. ElvisTheMan (talk) 12:50, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I was an Acquisitions Editor, not a Development Editor. As an Acquisitions Editor and Publisher, my job was to manage the Economics list as a product manager would --- it would be like being a product manager or brand manager at Proctor & Gamble. You manage a portfolio of products, and my portfolio was the line of books. I was not dealing with the subject matter directly --- I was not reading and editing the manuscripts, we had Development Editors who did this. Those people got to know the subject matter much better than the Acquisitions Editors. ElvisTheMan (talk) 13:04, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Personal sections are not required and especially not if the content has come from a primary source, ie. him or his daughter. Articles are based on what independent reliable sources have published, if nothing has been published about his private life then we don't write anything about it. Theroadislong (talk) 12:57, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, so this brings me back to Donald's obituary. Can that serve as a source regarding who he was married to, and that he had a daughter and grandson? But just leave out the year they were married, since it is not mentioned in the obituary? Or, is an obituary not a valid source? ElvisTheMan (talk) 21:32, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes certainly an obituary is a reliable source. Theroadislong (talk) 22:07, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I dropped the ball after our dialogue back in August, so I am getting back to this to finish it up.

Could you point me to an article that explains how to do references and citations? I used to know how to do them, but it seems I've either forgotten, or, something has changed. ElvisTheMan (talk) 18:08, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Donald A. Walker has been accepted

Donald A. Walker, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.

The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on its talk page. Most new articles start out as Stub-Class or Start-Class and then attain higher grades as they develop over time. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

Since you have made at least 10 edits over more than four days, you can now create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for creation if you prefer.

If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk. Once you have made at least 10 edits and had an account for at least four days, you will have the option to create articles yourself without posting a request to Articles for creation.

If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider leaving us some feedback.

Thanks again, and happy editing!

BuySomeApples (talk) 18:22, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Donald A. Walker

I went through the Donald A. Walker draft and fixed all the issues with badly cited, uncited or unencyclopedic info before approving. Just wanted to give you a heads up. Thanks! BuySomeApples (talk) 18:24, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much. I did notice that you removed his birthdate. Is there a reason for that? I can cite/reference his obituary for that. ElvisTheMan (talk) 13:56, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't see it in the obituary used in the article but if you have another source for it that works. BuySomeApples (talk) 02:00, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]