User talk:EVS-VR

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ManyAreasExpert (talk) 21:33, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Russians at War documentary

I like what you have written better than the previous version. You have been much more careful in documentation.Complexity1 (talk) 03:46, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I compared two versions, your is a good version for a fresh start. It has a proper structure and many more sources than the current version. Other editors can add their comments using the new version. The new version should should just add information about Windsor festival that the film was shown there despite of protests. I also advise contacting the senior editor who protected this page, to discuss the current standoff between editors. I agree with editors who think that the page is outdated and doesn't include reception by journalists who watched the film and published their opinions. 64.229.151.157 (talk) 02:20, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of ANI discussion

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 12:28, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked as a sockpuppet

Wikipedia's technical logs indicate that this user account has been or may be used abusively as a sockpuppet of User:Complexity1 per the evidence presented at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/UrbanVillager. It has been blocked indefinitely from editing to prevent abuse.

Note that multiple accounts are allowed, but not for illegitimate reasons, and any contributions made while evading blocks or bans may be reverted or deleted.
If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you should review the guide to appealing blocks, and then appeal your block by adding the following text below this notice: {{unblock|Your reason here ~~~~}}. Note that anything you post in your unblock request will be public, so you may alternatively use the Unblock Ticket Request System to submit an appeal if it contains information that must be private.

Administrators: Checkusers have access to confidential system logs not accessible by the public or by administrators due to the Wikimedia Foundation's privacy policy. You must not loosen or remove this block, or issue an IP block exemption, without consulting with a checkuser or the Arbitration Committee. Administrators who undo checkuser blocks without permission from a checkuser or the Arbitration Committee may be summarily desysopped.

Izno (talk) 21:27, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

EVS-VR (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

Your reason here

Guess who are sockpuppets here? Stoptheprop, of course!

The sockpuppet of User:Manyareasexpert, the Stoptheprop (there is not even a user page with this name!) applied to block me as a user, and received an immediate approval for that without any time for me to review, respond or discuss. These users implied that User:Complexity1 is my sockpuppet. However, simply from the history of that user's edits it is clearly not true. That user was editing Wikipedia long before the film was made. That user wasn't me, and I am not them. If that user also has the anti-war attitudes and also saw the film, they might be willing to edit the page when hearing that there is a revert war going on around its page. It is not the reason to block either me or them. Meanwhile none of those who applied to block me saw the film. So, dear administrators, is it according to the policy of Wikipedia, to block occasional editors who know the matter and spent time verifying sources by the request of editors who don't know the matter of the page and delete proposed information from sources? The argument about sockpuppeting is ungrounded and is used simply to shut me down as an editor. Please check where the other editor was editing from, when and what pages.

Moreover, my version of the Russians at War film cited many sources - why the administrators didn't consider that some of these sources have supporting Wikipedia editors, like Complexity1? The reasons for denial of my appeal wasn't given, but should be given.

The main argument of those who initially wanted to block me was that other editors’ text is similar to mine. Of course it is similar: when I offered my version of the page on the Talk page of the film, that was the idea - that other editors, who have a right to edit the page, will use my text. Then, by suggestion of other editor, I posted the updated text on my own page, because I couldn't post it myself. And so other editors did use my text. This is not sockpuppeting, this is cooperation and respect to other editors' contribution.

For those who don't know what this is about:

There is a revert war going on at the page of the anti-war documentary Russians at War, in which User:stoptheprop, User:Manyareasexpert suppress postings of the opinion of Western journalists. These editors have a history of pro-Ukrainian edits so clearly shouldn't be in charge of the edit of this page due to WP:RUSUKR. To object their numerous reverts of edits I reached out to the senior editor Daniel Case, who blocked the Russians at War page, for assistance. However, before Daniel had a chance to intervene, the User:stoptheprop submitted this block request, immediately granted by User:Izno FYI: As a critic from Roger Ebert described it, the film "became … the subject of mass protests outside the venue (of the festivals) by supporters of Ukraine believing it to be mere propaganda (none of whom had seen the film), and even members of Trudeau’s government excoriating the festival for playing the film at all ^[1]. The film was screened only in Venice, twice at TIFF under strict security and in Winsor but Ukrainian protests suppressed its public screening at other festivals. None of the Wikipedia editors who call it "propaganda" (User:0lida0, Stoptheprop, User:Manyareasexpert) have seen it – they don’t deny it.

I was one of the few lucky people who watched this anti-war film. As a person with strong attitudes anti war, I decided to assist this page. After reviewing the film's reception in media, I compiled a comprehensive and well-structured page for this film (with 87 sources and with sections according to other Wiki pages on films). Since the page was blocked, I couldn’t post my version but asked other editors to review sources and use my text if they agreed with it. I am an occasional editor, and so are many other Wikipedia editors, who have a job and don't sit on Wikipedia editing 24 hours. So timing of edits were probably different - this shouldn't be the basis of blocking me or other editors. Meanwhile the page that was kept by User:Manyareasexpert’s dominance was outdated, didn't include recent festivals-related events and had only 47 sources.

I invited anybody to use my text, and so some people did, especially after verifying its sources. Naturally, there is similarity between pieces submitted by various editors if they used my text. The User:UrbanVillager made several attempts to post my version of the page but User:Manyareasexpert, who mainly edited the matter related to Ukraine and so does not have neutrality in WP:RUSUKR, constantly reverts the changes made by User:UrbanVillager. So I saw at least 4 loops of posting texts taken from my version by User:UrbanVillager and reverting the changes by User:Manyareasexpert. To underline: all my sources are Western media specialists and Western journalists, so they are neutral in terms of WP:RUSUKR, whereas all three editors (User:0lida0, Stoptheprop, User:Manyareasexpert) vandalizing the proposed edits show a pro-Ukrainian uninformed (haven't seen the film) bias. Anti-war films shouldn’t be edited by the sides that are involved in the war, as both sides will scream “propaganda”. I believe there are no grounds to block me or other editors, and the bias in this matter by Stoptheprop, User:Manyareasexpert should be investigated instead. The grounds of blocking me and the grounds of the denial of the appeal should be given. I thought Wikipedia doesn't allow pages to be highjacked by biased editors - but here is the example of it. Plus my ability to edit now is blocked. I have been donating to Wikipedia every year but now I am reconsidering it. At the very least, if this continues, I am going to write directly to the Wikipedia owners. It is a disgrace what is happening here: suppression of good sources of information and blocking several well-minded editors by a frankly delusional and politically motivated thinking of Stoptheprop and User:Manyareasexpert EVS-VR (talk) 04:49, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Decline reason:

I've verified the checkuser evidence; it is quite unambiguous. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 05:43, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Please describe the evidence

@User:jpgordon, you wrote that you reviewed the evidence. Can you please list the evidence that was that "quite unambiguous" here, for others to judge? As I wrote, the similarity of the texts in postings is not the evidence: my text meant to be used by others. Similarity of comments is not the evidence as the issue was looping around the same few arguments. In fact, please look at the postings and comments of editors who asked for blocking me: they looped around the same few arguments as well, repeating each other. Thus, if you consider this similarity as evidence - sorry, you miss the whole point of cooperative nature of Wikipedia. Something was said about times of our edits - I personally have two jobs and edit only occasionally, when I see something important should be changed, like what happened to this film. I believe the majority of Wikipedia editors do only occasional edits. So times of edits is a laughable argument.EVS-VR (talk) 18:00, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Any admin with WP:CHECKUSER privileges can verify the findings in Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/UrbanVillager as I did. I didn't need to look at all at times of edits or anything of the sort, nor at the contents of edits. It doesn't matter at all who first called you out for abusing multiple accounts, since you were indeed abusing multiple accounts. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 18:32, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@User:jpgordon This answer does not transparently present reasons for blocking my account. It only says “we, administrators, know”. Somehow if I am not an administrator (like the majority of the public), we can’t see the reasons. EVS-VR (talk) 03:11, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@User:jpgordon Why is this evidence hidden from the public? If Wikipedia is an open site, then any debates about the page should be available to anyone concerned. EVS-VR (talk) 03:18, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Because of privacy issues; we generally do not publicly link IP addresses to user accounts, which would be a necessary part of exposing the evidence. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 03:58, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And most admins don't get to see the evidence either. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 04:02, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jpgordon, you contradict yourself. Previously you wrote that “the evidence is quite unambiguous” but now you say that you can’t see the evidence? Are you taking back your judgement that “the evidence is quite unambiguous”?EVS-VR (talk) 06:07, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You support bad actors

@User:jpgordon, the evidence for bias of those who submitted the request for blocking me on the issue WP:RUSUKR is very unambiguous - please block User:Manyareasexpert and User:stoptheprop from editing the Russians at War. Their history of edits evidently relates to pages on Ukraine so they can't be neutral. They even didn't watch the film, unlike me. If you are neutral on this matter and follow the Wiki's rules why don't you do review this evidence and block them as you support blocking me? Do the right thing in this case. And if you don't block them, you shouldn't block me either.

The story of Russians at War and this blocking of my editing should be known to the public: a brave girl in Russia tried to make an anti-war film with the risk of going to jail (there is a law against it in Russia), sneaked it to the frontline and spent 7 months in severe discomfort staying with Russian solders, filming whatever she could. She wasn't even hoping to get alive being also a citizen of a NATO country and cooperating with a Canadian film company. Then Canadians and French helped her to finalize this anti-war film, but Ukrainians, without seeing the film, did everything possible, including high level politicians to press the festivals to cancel it - read the page at Talk to see the sources. The financing of the film was cancelled by Canadians. Then the Russian media, seeing just a teaser, also put the film down as much as they could: they don't want anything anti-war. Plus Trofimova faces at least two sentences in Russia, plus Ukraine already put her on the list of threats to the country's defense. The high price to the life of documentalists in war should be respected, and the matter of war journalism should be handled with great care, which is not the case here. That was the consensus in Venice Film Festival, when I saw the film, and other anti-war people at the festival felt that we have to help her. Why it is so hard to believe that several editors can be involved then, copying each other's text to submit the edits?

Now the girl feels betrayed by both sides, feeling that 2 years of her life and risks for her and for the solders that she filmed were for nothing. Grounds to feel suicidal... All this only because Ukrainians somehow think that prohibiting mentioning anything Russian helps Russian isolation in the world and what - helps them win the war? They didn't even allow each other to go to see the film when it was screened at TIFF, buying tickets but not going, to make sure that the theater has empty seats. Their screams about "Putin's propaganda" comes from people who didn't watch the film - please read comments of Western journalists who watched the film, they all say that the film portrait Russian Army not in a very favorite view. So, dear administrators, you are on the side of editors who violate WP:RUSUKR and simple moral values, as as anti-war and pro-human life. If you want to keep me blocked for no reason - do your worst in public, but also block pro-Ukrainian editors from editing the film's page, according to WP:RUSUKR.EVS-VR (talk) 18:00, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you are fair, editors. please investigate

Dear @ Jpgordon, @Daniel Case, @Izno, ‪@User:Chaotic Enby

I kindly ask you (since I can’t do it) to also block Stoptheprop, 0lida0 and ManyAreasExpert for:

1) actively interfering in the editing of the page (Russians at War and WP:BF. The evidence: the prior history of edits, vandalism of the Russians at War page as they consistently reverted from the more expanded and structured version back to an earlier version; now I see that Stoptheprop is requesting restoring the outdated old version of the page with only 47 references and a blended structure, thus reverting from the existing page with 83 references and a more clear structure in line with the format of pages about films. They clearly also had a vendetta against those who carefully collected all of the sources and citations related to the film.

2) for violation of WP:RUSUKR since these three editors mainly edited the material related to Ukraine and so are not maintaining a neutral position with regards to edits.

3) for WP:MEAT, WP:MEATPUPPET, the pattern in these editors’ actions. Knowledge about the film’s existence, and especially about its page was not well-known when they immediately emerged for editing after the film’s premiere. It is very unlikely that these editors could learn about this film or about this page after its release just by chance: they must belong to some very special group involved in the industry or in the Ukrainian community (the Russian community still doesn’t know about the existence of this film). In other words, the three named editors knew about the film and its page immediately after the film’s release as they were “in the loop”, helping each other, and thus not being neutral editors.

In this context, if you see disputes between two groups of editors, it would seem that both groups, not just one, must possess some degree of familiarity between their members. If this is a crime in my case, it should also be a crime in the case of the three editors that I named. Therefore, these three editors should not have a right to edit Russians at War and now should be blocked.

I also ask for the removal of the block from my editing. The fact that other editors supported my text is not sockpuppeting, it is called cooperation in editing (one editor makes a draft, another editor verifies sources, and whatever is verified, is submitted again). This matter is exceptional, being not readily accessible to the public. This film was seen only by a small number of journalists, specialists and members of the public (maybe a few hundred around the world), and limited only to special locations (Venice, the Toronto area, plus a small city in Nova Scotia). Most importantly for me was to make sure that the page has truthful information. Please compare the version of the page on Talk and the existing Russians at War page.EVS-VR (talk) 06:07, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi!

Stoptheprop and 0lida0 are already indefinitely blocked. Regarding your block appeal, you point that The fact that other editors supported my text is not sockpuppeting, it is called cooperation in editing. This is not the reason why you were blocked. A CheckUser technically confirmed that your account was related to Stoptheprop and Complexity1, and likely related to Volunt.

Since the block was placed by a CheckUser based on technical information only they can access, only them or another CheckUser can remove your block – of the four people you pinged, only Jpgordon and Izno are CheckUsers. But, as a very first step, you'll have to be honest about whether you are indeed connected to the other accounts that were technically linked.

More generally, if you wish for your block appeal to be seen, I recommend you to use the template {{unblock}} so that administrators (and, in this case, CheckUsers) will be more likely to see it. This is more likely to be fruitful than repeatedly pinging the same users, who might not be disposed to reply to you after that many pings. (See also WP:NOTTHEM about a less-than-successful unblock strategy) Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 13:20, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much, @Chaotic Enby, you are probably most helpful editor in this mess explaining to me what is going on :) Indeed, I see that the StoptheProp and 0Olida0 are blocked. Just a couple of notes: I think you made a typo saying that the CheckUser linked me to Stoptheprop, it can't be as that editor was the one who submitted the request to block me, and overall was critical to all my edits. I am also skeptical about my link to Volunt, so far I can't recall how it could happen and with whom. Complexity1, on the other hand I've met, and so do many of his students, children and grandchildren passing through his office. He is the least person to break any law, a reliable and accurate scientist, probably still thinking that Wikipedia runs like regular encyclopedia. I bet blocking of his account and public humiliation of him doing something bad came as a shock to him. However, he or I are not anybody's or each other's puppets, we found almost by accident that we watched the same film and I didn't like the page that other editors offered. There was no conspiracy, or fake accounts. The world of academia simply is not that big, and if we work in the same disciplines, inevitably we meet one day, especially during politico-cultural events. I didn't expect him to be involved at all in editing Russians at War, and I didn't expect this page would take that much efforts from me either.

I thought I would add references to publications about the film, and that would be the end of it. I didn't believe that Ukrainians would go on with protests for every single festival where film was scheduled to be shown, so the film's history was expanding and expanding. For me it was like a heavy suitcase without the handle - pity to drop as I invested some initial time, but getting heavier and heavier to handle. Speaking about Complexity1 - we were not in contact when he suddenly emerged with the check of the references. Perhaps he was monitoring the page and, as a supervisor of what youth is doing, decided to verify my claims.

Motivation to engage in editing this page is simple. The reaction to police blocking of demonstrators, and enhanced securing during TIFF's screening of Russians at War was universal among the audience and in a striking contrast to protestors' attidudes "I am not going to watch this film, I prevent others, and I know what it is without watching it". I bet anybody would react to such contrast, wanting to get involved in fixing this misunderstanding, and they don't need to be anybody's sockpuppets. Thank you for your recommendations regarding unblock. Today is the end of my working week, and I hope to write something to administrators and use that template either tonight or tomorrow. Thank you so much again! EVS-VR (talk) 23:26, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Apology to Complexity 1

Dear @Complexity, I just read your reaction to the block on your Talk page. I was wondering why you didn't react earlier but you've mentioned that you did not receive notifications. Perhaps you can check your email again and the spam mailbox? Regardless, I want to apologise for the likely stress caused by this block to you, and I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for your participation in editing Russians at War page. I wanted to post it on your Talk page but I am blocked myself and can only post it here. I believe you did nothing wrong, and you had only the best intentions. Thank you again for everything. EVS-VR (talk) 23:43, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

^ "TIFF 2024: A Canadian Perspective on This Year's Festival-of-festivals". Roger Ebert.

[1] "TIFF 2024: A Canadian Perspective on This Year's Festival-of-festivals". Roger Ebert.

[1]