User talk:Dineshkannambadi/Archive5

Wonderful pictures you have come up with lately. Really beautiful, especially of the architectural details. The architecture one is georgous. --Mattisse 23:57, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

DYK

Any type of article at all is permissible, as long as it is new or 80% new content. That article would be eligible, except that it is old. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 02:42, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Maps

I saw you need some maps (in Matisse's talk page). You can also ask User:Planemad for maps. He has drawn many maps of India. If you provide him with the source, he may be able to create maps. Also, I left some comments in the running FAC. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 04:21, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

circumabulation

Did I change anything about it in your article? I did a lot of research when I wrote the general article on the term, but as far as your article goes, I try to stay away from any meaningful changes. I just concentrate on grammatical correctness. But maybe I should move on to something else since it is in FA review. Sincerely, Mattisse 03:05, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Circumabulation is a topic that I find extremely interesting, but as with anything Indian I guess politics rules. I don't understand your last message to me. Sincerely, Mattisse 03:16, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Clockwise

Clockwise is right to left. Maybe if it were explained why that is important. It took me a long time to even understand what circumambulation was (as it is mentioned so many articles but never explained).Then another long time to understand how temples were built to accommodate this religious practice. And I understand the general importance of ritual in any religion and I will just have to leave my understanding there, I guess. Sincerely, Mattisse 03:51, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! :)

Hi Dinesh, I hadnt noticed that you'd 'vandalised' my user page. Ironic isnt it? You've given me barnstars for diligence and vigilance and I hadnt noticed the vandalism of my own page :D . Thanks anyway. Vandalism humbly accepted. Sarvagnya 07:26, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Origin of Rashtrakutas

Vamsha section

Hi Dinesh, I just did a minor cpedit of the Vamsha section. I have a question. In the section you first say that the inscriptions are silent till about 860, you then say, "While one inscription of King Dantidurga claims that he was born to the Yadava Satyaki, 1800 coins of King Krishna I (772), his successor calls him Parama Mahesvara ". If King Krishna was his successor and he lived in 772(that is before 860), ....?? I dont understand. Can you please clarify. Sarvagnya 07:59, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Race

I made this minor edit a few days ago and I think that the edit is fair. But today when I was editing the Vamsha section, I again came across the term 'race'. The context here is slightly different from the edit i mentioned above. My question is, is 'race' the term that all historians use to translate 'Surya vamsha', 'Chandra vamsha' etc.,.? Because I feel that 'race' is slightly inaccurate. When these kings talk of their Vamsha I am more inclined to think that they're talking about their ವಂಶ. I am not sure they would have meant race. Do the historians think otherwise? Sarvagnya 08:05, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Rashtrakutas and Rashtrakutas of Manyakheta

Hi Dinesh, looks like you're working on OoR right now. I actually have left this section blank with an {expand} note. You may have noticed that I removed some info from the lead which I meant to move to this section. If you can bring that info that I removed into this section and add a few more lines, it will be good. Basically, from what I understood from the article, there were many lineages that called themselves Rashtrakutas starting from Ashoka's period. So we have to point out to readers that by Rashtrakutas, by default we mean 'Rashtrakutas of Manyakheta' and that the other lines(for example from Ashoka's period) who called themselves Rashtrakutas may or may not have been Rashtrakutas at all... I am sure I havent put it properly but I hope you understand what I mean. Or please correct me if i understood wrongly. Thanks. Sarvagnya 01:37, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

No no. what i meant was, I felt the lead was too long and went into too much detail, so i removed half of it and created two new sections("lang of R" and "R and R of M"). While I 'populated' the "lang of R", I did not put anything in the other one. I just wanted you to take a look first because i was a little confused. Sarvagnya 03:17, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Ya I agree. "Lang of the R" doesnt sound right and I also felt so. But I thought that lets get the material in first and then think of a better way to present it. The way I see it, we should present to the reader the role that studies about the "Lang of the R" has played in understanding their origins. Maybe we should move it under ==Research== or something. I just was confused about the dates etc., so i didnt want to continue before you took a look. Sarvagnya 04:10, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

p.s Sarvagnya 04:19, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Point taken. Looks fine. Maybe we can do away with the 'Early R' section. I'll take another look later tonight or tommorrow. Sarvagnya 04:49, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Hoysala architecture

Hi! I have made some more comments in the FAC. IMO, the best would have been a schematic diagram of the temple structure. Do you have any schematic diagram? You can scan, and send it to somebody who are deft at creating images, in case you are unable to do it yourself. Bye the way, I am sorry if I sounded foolish in the FAC comments. Basically, I am finding the article pretty tough!--Dwaipayan (talk) 17:42, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

What about?

I think the section "Temple complex" needs an introduction, something like this:

A Hindu temple is a place of contact between the gods or deities and man. The focus of a temple is the centre or inner sanctum where the image of the diety resides so temple architecture is focused on moving the devotee from outside to the inner sanctum through a series of chambers and halls (mantapas) that are increasingly sacred as the diety is approached. (The mention the main parts of the temple). etc.

What do you think? --Mattisse 20:02, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

floor paln

I asked around about software and got some suggestions. But when I tried to download them they weren't compatible with my OS. I think it would help immensely, and also some general information. I tried to deal with the "Deities" section but may have made some mistakes. I think the whole article needs to be reorganised. (I've been looking through my Indian temple books.) The art and architecture and relationship to religious beliefs is all intertwined. Do you know of a good profile of a temple so people would get the picture of the outer wall (colonnades), gates, hallways, shrines, inter sanctum etc. Also, what about the star shaped platform and the east west stuff? (Maybe I know just enough to be dangerous now!) --Mattisse 20:15, 23 February 2007 (UTC).

Temples were generally built facing east or North (ocassionally).My bokk organizes it more or less the way we have it,

• History of Hoysalas (brief)
• Dedication and names of Temples
• Plan of Temples
• Sculptures
• Deities

We just brought Deities up to where dedication is. Architecture is a very specialised subject and we need to read more books (Henry Cousens, Percy Brown etc) to get a better picture about organization. I had planned to buy there books middle of the year to coincide with my trips to Chalukya temples. At this point we need to be careful not to rip apart too much, as always I am being careful, not stubborn.Dineshkannambadi 22:47, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

let me look first

Because I did several copy edits after the move. So let me try to copy them as I just can not do them over. --Mattisse 23:33, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

So how many of my edits would you be undoing, looking at the history? I did the move a while ago. I can't tell. I would do the paragraph move over but not the rest. --Mattisse 23:37, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

I can't tell what happened

Where did the conflict occur? --Mattisse 23:38, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

accidently responded on my own talk page

(copied) If it is just the last edit then I'll save the paragraph I'll save the last edit about horizontal treatment - the whole paragraph and then reinsert it - is that the only one? --Mattisse 23:46, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

O.K. then, but be sure that is it. Which section were you working on? Mattisse 23:54, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

You can save the edit conflict in a text editor

Then just enter the changes where they need to go. References and things you don't have to do over. Just copy them in where they should go. --Mattisse 00:05, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

The article looks O.K.

I'm sorry that you took out the part about the circambulation being a physical acting out of the spiritual journey in Hinduism, as that is so central to the design of the temples. Maybe I'll beef up the circambulation article and get into that as it is so interesting. It connects it all. Sincerely, --Mattisse 00:51, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

No I don't see it

It is very frustrating. To see hard work and a sincere desire to understand go down the drain is disheartening. I worked incredibly hard today to no real end. I think I'll stay out of it for a while. Sincerely, --Mattisse 02:58, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry!

I apologise for being too tired last night to deal with the situation. I will try to do better. Sincerely, Mattisse 13:30, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Map

No problem. Just point me to the source. But no promises, have got my hands full but will eventually do it-- ^{PlaneMad|YakYak} 16:13, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

religion

I wrote very quickly a short article called Devotional cult because the link sect under the Deities section was not helpful, in my opinion. Looking at the comments, like secular vs religious etc., I am thinking some small explanation of Hinduism is helpful, as it seems to me that Hinduism is not exclusively a religion the way westerners define religion. So I am trying to interject a little cultural anthropology. Hope this is O.K. Sincerely, Mattisse 18:24, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Yaksha

It is used in the book The Hindu Temple by George Michell and reissued by the University of Chicago press. He has a lot of good stuff in the book that would improve the article. But take it out if you want. I'm just for the first time understanding what is going on in a Hindu temple so my pleasure is in the learning. Sincerely, Mattisse 23:13, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

O.K.

I have no objection. Make it the way you want. Sincerely, Mattisse 23:43, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Insight

What I have been realising recently is that everything about Hinduism on Wikipedia is written from a religious point of view -- hence all those edit wars and the boring (to me) Hindu articles that go on and on like a religious text with no insight or perspective. To me Hinduism has suddenly become interesting because I see that it is not only a religion but so much more. My Hindu Temple book also goes into the secular uses of a Hindu temple -- which you pointed out to me long ago in the discussion over naming a temple by the town it was in. You said a Hindu temple was integrated into the community, a vital part of community functioning and should be named after the town in most cases.

My book also goes into how temples were designed and contracted, the construction overseen, etc. It says that although Hoysala kings commissioned them for religious purposes, they paid no attention to the architecture details. Skilled local craftsmen could use their own individuality, hence there was more variety and creativity. And there were specialised artisans for every aspect. Artisans tended to be run by families who passed the skills down through the generations and were independent and professionally run. In the later period, the style became more formal and the temples more uniform -- I'm just getting to that part now in my book so I am not sure why. Sincerely, Mattisse

Feedback

Commented landscape image on Gokarna page. Thanks! I will add references to Vijayanagra empire origin soon. If you are planning to make this FA or something else, please let me know. I will proiritise to work on it early. mlpkr 16:53, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

where

How do you know we got big support? What did they say? What kind of changes did they like? --Mattisse 18:45, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

I am getting resistance on my Devotional cults in India article and will have to work on it. They tried to merge it with Bhakti and Bhakti movement. My India: A History book has a pretty good explanation of Hinduism running through it's 600 pages at a level I can take. --Mattisse 18:52, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

What direction should we be going in? --Mattisse 18:55, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

The temple article is done? --Mattisse 19:07, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Western Chalukyas

My two India history books barely mention the Western Chalukyas (Later Chalukyas). Why is that? --Mattisse 20:08, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Yali, Makaratorana, and Kirthimukha

What are these? Yali has a big disambig page. Do you mean Makaratorana (mythic beast)? Is Kirthimukha a diety? --Mattisse 20:16, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Yali (Hindu Mythology)? --Mattisse 20:27, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

I linked Yali (Hindu Mythology). The other two I can find nothing on anywhere -- books, web etc. --Mattisse 20:42, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Kirthimukha

Kirthimukha - Done very quickly. --Mattisse 21:10, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Yalli (motif)

Yalli (motif) - maybe this is better for Yalli. Do you have a photo? --Mattisse 21:31, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Re:Barn Star

Thanks a lot for the barn star Dinesh. I'm very happy to get barn star from a featured editor like you. Thanks againGnanapiti 21:55, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Rows of elephants

horizontal layer of a procession of elephants

One of my favorite pictures and described even in the article. But you never want to use it! (I've suggested it before. --Mattisse 21:56, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you

Too tired now to say much, other than I appreciate your consideration and will look tomorrow. I've been reading my Hindu temple book again all evening and I'm beginning to grasp the whole which I never knew before as Buddhism was always more interesting when I was young. Now I see much of what you were saying before. I do want to mention one aspect, long ago, to acknowledge our cultural differences -- that you said I was calling hill people hillbillies (which I was not!). I am wondering if you are aware that so-called "hillbillies" are fashionable now in the United States, if you look at who is famous politically and artistically, as well as NASCAR even etc. In a way it parallels India in a minor way. (I'm also trying to defend my "Devotional cult" article as the more I read about Hinduism I see that it is made up of devotional cults (the way I interpret it). Sincerely, --Mattisse 02:52, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Image you just added

Too tired to look now, but isn't that an example of what you described above in the article as going over the lintel? I'll look tomorrow. --Mattisse 03:20, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Looked at comment

I agree with it. There are many ways to go. What you suggest or integrating some of it more into the article. Since I have been reading my temple and history books, I have become fascinated over what a business enterprise building a temple was -- and the various roles of architect, contractor, artisan guilds etc. Though I know you wish to move on and get it over with, there are so many ways to explain India through this article (while defending my Devotional cults in India article too!. I feel like there is a whole story not being told on Wikipedia, though I credit you greatly for your approach (which was such a relief to me and why I got involved in your articles). Too tired to say more tonight but will look into it tomorrow. I feel like there are problems, once a real editor looks at it that should be fixed by us now. Sincerely, Mattisse 03:08, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

"age" of Kannada

I have changed the statement to say what you intend. See oldest language for further explanation. regards, dab (𒁳) 07:30, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Amoghavarsha

Are the requirements the same as for FA? Where does it say what the requirements are? (I am very tired today and can barely think.)--Mattisse 16:25, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Re:Hoysala architecture

I just looked at it. I believe, that comment was on the alignment and orientation of various pictures in that section. Let me try playing around a bit there. Thanks for informing me. - KNM ^Talk 16:27, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Hoysala moving around

I moved things so that topics were kept together. I moved some sculpture to vimana because it was talking about the vimana plus the whole vimana section was about the tower and nothing else. I moved some deity stuff into Sculpture because it mentioned things not explained until later (a FA editor complaint) plus it was describing sculpture.

I originally put my elephant photo to illustrate vimana base but switched it for one I guessed you liked better. I tried to put photos where they were being explained in the text.

I think the section under Research can be integrated into much of the article. A lot of the craftsman material can go under sculpture as that is mostly what is talked about. And the other places can be found for the rest, I believe. Remember, you can just revert back to before I started! Sincerely, --Mattisse 19:25, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Amoghavarsha

"On more than one occasion he abdicated his throne to find more time for religious activities, though this is a debated issue." What part of this was debated? That he abdicated his throne or that it was to find for time for religious activites? Sincerely, Mattisse 20:13, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Moving around

Did you read my message of explanation? I was trying to address some FA editors concerns, like words being used before they were defined further down. Also, by moving what I did into vimana I wanted to address more than just the tower because you call it a shrine. By moving what I did into mantapa, I was hoping the open vs closed confusion was clearer. So I moved for organisation and clarity. Also, I like to keep the explanation of something (especially something unfamiliar to many) all in one place. But you may not agree with my moves. Also, I wanted to cut the deity section down and some of it really did describe sculpture. Sincerely, --Mattisse 21:32, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

reply

I wrote a long reply and Wikipedia lost it! Now I can't remember what you asked. Look at it with an open mind as a new reader. Just a little more work and it can be very good. Tell me what you think. Sincerely, --Mattisse 21:46, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

floor plan

That looks easy to do -- of course I don't know how to do it.

--Mattisse 22:08, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Shrine

temple profile

Would this be a better photo to use to better explain how the tower and the shrine etc go together? Move it up higher in the article to the place where those editors could not picture it. --Mattisse 22:28, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Temple complex - sentence I was going to add

I was saving the following sentence to put back in. Hope I didn't cause you too much trouble moving things around. I see you have been working hard!

"Pillars and wall sculptures are the most exquisitely crafted features of Hoysala temples."

--Mattisse 23:37, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Images at bottom

Two of them are used in the article, so I will remove them. Then there will be no problem. I will do that now. --Mattisse 23:42, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

fix centered photos - put to right

Moved temple to top - images are just commented out and can easily be returned to where they were. Just seems like there should be a full temple at the top, since the article is about temple architecture. --Mattisse 00:17, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

This way the reader starts out with a image of what the article is about, and will know a little more what to expect. (my opinion) --Mattisse 00:20, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi,

Went through http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayakas_of_Chitradurga

Excellent work!

Can you also put up a separate page on this Bedar warrior community? It will be useful for Indians and foreigners unaware of our southern history.

vimana

I am not clear about the difference between a vimana, and sanctum sanctorum (garbhagriha). Is the inner sanctum in the vimana? Or what? Sincerely, --Mattisse 01:56, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

The vimana is the whole thing; inner shrine, outer walls, tower on top.Dineshkannambadi 01:57, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

image size

What size are the images supposed to be? --Mattisse 01:57, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

I can start removing commented out stuff any time. --Mattisse 02:28, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Now that we know how to build a page on architecture at a basic level of expertise, it is very tempting to start very serious work on Vijayanagara Architecture. But I want to visit Hampi once more, feel the aura again, inhale the minor details I may have missed last time, visit Anegondi the original capital which is only 20kms away from Vijayanagara before we start on it. The topics for which I dont have images for are the Palaces (Anegondi) and hero-stones (5 types) all which came with their own elaborate carvings and reliefs. There are some types of pillars for which I dont have images. There are also a whole new Vijayanagara style temples built (in Malabar style) in coastal Karnataka which I have not visited. Now you know why Karnataka contributes 612 out of 3600 national monuments in India.Dineshkannambadi 02:40, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

I think this one has beautiful images. I look at them over and over. Maybe when you go, you could also capture some of the odd details, like the folk images, masks, motifs. --Mattisse 02:47, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

File:Chennakeshava mainshrine.jpg

Chennakeshasva

This is quite a picture also. --Mattisse 03:11, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Kavirajamarga and Amoghavarsha

Dinesh, Excellent job done on these two articles. I just came across these two, while looking into some other article. Significant expansion have been done on both the articles. I believe, Amoghavarsha is now eligible for DYK and went ahead and hence nominated with the below hook. Please feel free to update, if you want.

• ...that Kavirajamarga, the earliest extant literary work in Kannada language, was written by the king Amoghavarsha I who was a famous poet and a scholar?

Thanks - KNM ^Talk 03:03, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Amoghavarsha or Amoghavarsha I?

Do you want him called Amoghavarsha or Amoghavarsha I? If the later, then the name of the article should be changed. Since this article is a redirect from Amoghavarsha I, I would have to apply through procedures to have it changed which is not a big deal.

Which ever way you go, the name should be consistent. In this article, per MoS, I started with Amoghavarsha and then kept it that way throughout. I notice in some other articles (the few I followed links to) he is called Amoghavarsha I.

Is there a Amoghavarsha II? Sincerely, --Mattisse 16:42, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

So the name of the article should be changed? --Mattisse 16:48, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't know. Maybe it doesn't matter since the redirect brings Amoghavarsha I here. And the I looks strange in the text sometimes. Perhaps when he becomes king we can say he was crowned as Amoghavarsha I.

Also, he was born on his father's journey (his mother was with his father on the journey) or while his father was away on his journey north? --Mattisse 16:56, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

In another article you wrote, you say he was called Sharva until he was crowned Amoghavarsha I. Actually I don't see a need to change the name in this one. --Mattisse 17:14, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

(unindent) Do you have suggestions on Amoghavarsha that I should do? --Mattisse 18:55, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

I took all the Amoghavarsha I out in the article so it is all Amoghavarsha but no I am thinking after reading your friend's note that I should put them back in. --Mattisse 18:59, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

sthamba buttalikas

Does sthamba buttalikas have a hyphen? You have it one way in the text and another in the image caption. Also, I need to fix that sentence a little. --Mattisse 00:25, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I try not to change content, but sometimes I misinterpret what you are saying. I don't take offense when you let me know, so feel free. Sincerely, --Mattisse 02:51, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Re: Amoghavarsha I

Are you planning to create articles on Amoghavarsha II and Amoghavarsha III ? Or is there enough information in the history literature about these two kings? If yes, then we should be removing the redirect from Amoghavarsha I toAmoghavarsha. Instead we should be creating a disambig page to list out all these kings. Further, we can put in a redirect from Amoghavarsha to Amoghavarsha I, as he is/was most notably called as Amoghavarsha only and not Amoghavarsha 1. This could be combined with a dab message on top of the Amoghavarsha I article saying, Amoghavarsha redirects here, for other kings having the similar name, please see Amoghavarsha (disambig) page. Hope I did not confuse you much. :P I can take care of all these things, and get ready the stubs for you to fill in the info. All I need to know as of now is, you have some info, alteast for stubs, on I and II kings. Thanks. - KNM ^Talk 05:50, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

yakshas

See Kubera which says yakshas are Hindu! Sincerely, --Mattisse 22:37, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

DYK

On 1 March, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Amoghavarsha I, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--Yomangani^talk 23:21, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Sculpture

This sentence is under deities:

"The most striking sculptural decorations are the horizontal rows of exquisitely detailed, intricately carved images of Gods, Goddesses and their attendants on the temple outer wall panels."

Does it belong there? Or should it go under Sculpture? Also, when you say "show traces of Chola art in the Chalukyan touches", could you be more specific? I've been trying to figure out what touches fall in this category."

I feel like the Sculpture section needs more organisation and flow, but I can't seem to be able to do it myself. Also the first paragraph there repeats itself about detail and precision etc. and I can't seem to fix that either, as my books don't go into this issue much.

Sincerely, --Mattisse 00:27, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

O.K. I think I am burned out on the subject for now also. Lets take a break! --Mattisse 01:16, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Hoysala architecture

Yet another FA!! Whoa!!! Congratulations, Dinesh! (yet again, I'm the first one to do so :)) he..he..he..)

Wish to see many more FAs from you. Keep up the wonderful job! THANK YOU!!! - KNM ^Talk 04:04, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Dinesh, congrats on yet another FA. Amazing job...4 FAs in as many months..-- Naveen ^(talk) 04:18, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations to the Annavru of wikipedia on yet another FA! Keep it up! Sarvagnya 05:24, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations on another FA! Blnguyen (bananabucket) 04:35, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Barnstar

Congratulations on raising Hoysala architecture to FA status. Kind regards --Mcginnly | Natter 13:13, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

See Architecture or Architecture Project for more information. A list of recipients is also at Architecture.

This award was introduced by the WikiProject Architecture on 14 November 2006.

Greetings

Happy Holi !! And congrats for the FA!--Dwaipayan (talk)

Hoysala

I saw that. Thought you knew! I was just sitting here feeling so inferior in knowledge to you. I thank you for the opportunity of working with you. It has been a pleasure. Sincerely, --Mattisse 21:28, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

P.S. I called an upper caste Hindu yesterday! That is a first. --Mattisse 21:36, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Let me know the time table. Am I an upper cast Hindu in attitude? --Mattisse 21:40, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

DYK nom on Mayurasharma

Dinesh, Great job on expanding Mayurasharma article. The article deserves, and needs, more attention and much detailed expansion. I have just nominated it for DYK in DYK nominations page.

• ...that Mayurasharma was the founder of the Kadamba Kingdom of Banavasi, the earliest native Kingdom to rule over what is today modern Karnataka state, India?

Feel free to update it, if you want. Thank you! - KNM ^Talk 02:10, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Why it is under March 4th? Because it was significantly expanded on that day. We have to nominate only under the article creation date OR under the article major expansion date.

When it will be accepted? Depends. Unless any reviewer / DYK updating admin has any concerns over the nomination, it would be accepted. Typically in a day or two. Thanks - KNM ^Talk 02:48, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Mayurasharma

Tomorrow, first thing. --Mattisse 02:29, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Kadamba

The Kadamba article says they came from present day Uttara Kannada district. Is that congruent with what you are saying? (Just checking!) --Mattisse 17:00, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Rashtrakuta page

Dinesh: You wrote:

Hi, as you are aware, I have been making many inputs to the Rashtrakuta page with the intent of taking it to FA status. With this intent there are some issues I want to discuss with you.

I will take a look at it. Rashtrakuta history of much greater significance than what is commonly believed. Thanks for your efforts.

• At the bottom of the LEAD section, I have mentioned the names of many branches/ descendents of this empire and I can verify all of them with my books except the branch from Mayuragiri in Maharashrta (Rashtraudha dynasty). This info was brought in by a user who was later banned for sochpuppetry (I think). Can you please find some info for this kingdom, create a reasonable stub page for it. I will be creating stubs for all other branches/descendents per wiki FA format and will move in your "King lists" into these stubs along with some more info. It is not acceptable to wiki FA reviewers to have lists on the main page. I have learnt this from the 4 featured articles I have successfully authored. So please dont be annoyed when the lists are removed and moved into respective pages.

Rashtraudha dynasty was an important branch, and is well documented.

• A few of the citations in the listed branches/descendents section dont seem to be from English language books and a few others may not have the page number, publisher info etc. None of these citations are from me (citation #77-83). Non-English books are not recommended when English books are plenty and available. Fortunately, I can provide full citations to replace most of the existing citations from my English language books, so this is no problem. In case I cant find a citation or two, I may ask for your assistance.

However, if I am wrong and all books are in English, please add the complete book info in the reference section the way I have done. If you are busy, I will take care of it anyway.

Many books are not available in English. It is, after all, Indian history. I agree when there are books in Enlish, we should use them.

• You mention in the "branch list" the Rashtrakutas of Kannauj. In the middle of this list you also mention,(Lost Shravasti to Gahadavalas in 1128). So are the Gahadavalas different from the rulers of Kannauj?. I have read entirely about the early history of Rashtrakutas (6-8th century) and imperial history from Manyakheta (8-10th century). I will start on the Gahadavala chapter soon and also on other descendents/branches. Just needed this clarification about the rulers of Kannauj.

Thanks.Dineshkannambadi 22:38, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

There is some ambiguity in the relationship of Rashtrakutas and Gahadavalas that remains unresolved.

I have also temporarily removed the subarticle include for The great Karnataka Expansion which I shall reinsert after providng all the citations. It should be perhaps be renamed. The word great somehow seems extravagent.(I am from Karnataka)Dineshkannambadi 01:34, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

It was in fact a great expansion. Much of North India was conquered by several groups from Karnataka, from Punjab to Bengal. This conquest changed the course of history in North India, and created what we now know as the Rajput period. Today Indian history tends to be north-centric, it can be hard to accept that there was a period when the south dominated the north.

--Malaiya 00:11, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Re:Mayurasharma

Sure. I saw the cpedits and references you have added. They are very appropriate. I think more light needs to be shed on Shilashasana claims. I'll try to find more information about this. Gnanapiti 03:28, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

DYK

On 8 March, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Mayurasharma, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--Carabinieri 18:59, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Bangalore break-up

Hello Dinesh. I work on en:wikitravel [1] and we need to districtify Bangalore, i.e. split it up into 5-9 districts. If you could help me, I'd be extremely grateful. The district names should sound natural and cover the entire city. You can contact me at any of the following -

• upamanyu.mallik@gmail.com
• upamanyu_mallik2000@yahoo.co.in
• My wikipedia user talk page [2]
• My wikitravel user talk page [3]

The Bangalore talk page on wikitravel [4]

Thanks — Upamanyuwiki 16:12, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Origins of Western Chalukyas

[5] This link, is this copied from you or independently researched? The article mentions a "consensus" over the origins of the Western Chalukyas. Sincerely, --Mattisse 19:08, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it is copied from you, I see. Sorry. --Mattisse 19:09, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

a quote

"The sculpture in Hoysala temples is a reminder of the virtuosity of the craftsmen as well as of the superb planning that integrated this essentially decorative feature with structural elements. The star-shaped plan with its series of reentrants provided the sculptor with an extended canvas." --Mattisse 02:24, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Quote

Not scholarly, like your books but helpful to me with beautiful pictures:

Thapar, Bindia, Introduction to Indian Architecture, Periplus: Singapore, 2004. --Mattisse 14:39, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

It has a good Bibliography. It also says that the narrative friezes bearing the name of the sculptor in Hosyala temples "are probably the first instance of signed works of art in India." --Mattisse 14:55, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Hoysala architecture

To which citation are you referring? Thanks! --Mattisse 21:03, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm still not understanding about the citation. Is it all taken care of? Thanks! --Mattisse 22:59, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

The citation from the quote above? Under "Notable craftsmen"? Thanks, --Mattisse 23:03, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

That this is the first signing by craftsmen? Thanks! --Mattisse 23:05, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Archiving suggestion

Just recently I started having my talk page automatically archived. Unfortunately the bot that did belonged to Essjay, the guy who just got fire -- and he took his bot with him.

I just got this new message which you might want to consider also:

---

Talkpage archiving

Just doing the rounds of talkpages previously archived by EssjayBot III. Just to let you know that Misza13 has created MiszaBot III to perform the same function. You can request this Bot's services at User:MiszaBot/Archive requests. Werdnabot is presently blocked following a malfunction on the 6th and Werdna doesn't appear to be around to deal with the problem. WjBscribe 01:13, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

---

Please, please, please consider it! It's wonderful. Really! Just click on that request link. Sincerely, --Mattisse 01:40, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Re:Chavundaraya

DYK nomination looked good, as well as your recent expansion on this article! I did minor copyedit to the hook, and updated the credit info. Basically that usage of <small> etc tags are required, only if the creator is different than the nominator, which is not the case here. Rest all is fine. Thanks! - KNM ^Talk 03:58, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Indian script

I readily admit I don't know what I am talking about in that article. When your history and architecture articles referred to "inscriptions" I didn't know what you meant at first. So I gathered some Indian script articles together and have not had time to really write it yet. But what link and book are you referring to? The link goes back to you user page.

Where is your photo of the rosewood ceiling motif? Your pictures are scattered all over the place and I have lost that one. Sincerely, --Mattisse 15:52, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the article. It looks quite interesting. You know that I am no where near capable of writing a scholarly article on the subject as you are. Also, I was thinking more generally, but an article on Tamil inscriptions might be worth it. There are articles all over the place on inscription in Wikipedia but no central way of finding them easily and no overall explanation of their use. Sincerely, --Mattisse 16:20, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

P.S. Thanks for rosewood location. Re DYK -- I have a hard time keeping up with all the projects you are involved in. --Mattisse 16:20, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

(unindent) You improved it considerably last night and changed some words I objected to, like "multifaceted". What part goes into the DYK? I takes me a while to get adjusted to the heavily-Indian articles where practically everything is unfamiliar. Sincerely, --Mattisse 16:25, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Chandragupta

Chandragupta goes to a disambiguation page, none of which seem correct. My books are not helpful on this matter. Sincerely --Mattisse 18:23, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

If you click on Chandragupta, the name of the article, it goes to a disambiguation page:

People named Chandragupta:

• Chandragupta Maurya. Indian king, Mauryan Empire, 322–293 BC
• Chandragupta I. Indian king, Gupta Empire, 320-335 AD
• Chandragupta II. Also known as Chandragupta Vikramaditya. Indian king, Gupta Empire, 375-414 AD

I guess he needs to be added. Sincerely, --Mattisse 19:19, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

(accidently answered on my own talk page) It means that if his name is linked on another page, the reader will be sent to the disambiguation page. Usually, editors want to avoid that. --Mattisse 20:19, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, since his name is spelled differently, his article is automatically redirected from Shravanabelagola to the page you wrote so if that is the only place, then no problem. --Mattisse 20:42, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

(unindent) Good point to check the history. They have been quiet for a while -- probably time for them to start up again! --Mattisse 21:55, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, what does "filip" mean? It is not in the dictionary. --Mattisse 22:00, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Are you saying that the literature was credited to the kings personally or to the atmosphere they promoted? --Mattisse 22:02, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Is "paramountcy" an Indian word? --Mattisse 22:13, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Chavundaraya etc.

I added a little material plus footnote to last para, of which you may not approve. So you probably better check it out! Also, my Indian inscriptions article has been nominated for DYK! How about that? Sincerely, --Mattisse 11:41, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Rashtrakuta

Am I still supposed to be working on this article? Sincerely, --Mattisse 18:29, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

mixed up

My books seem not to agree with your books completely on the Ellora situation. Apparently there were three different dynasities/kingdoms involved -- not to say the Rashtrkuta dynasty was not important there as it was. Also, the history of the Rashtrkuta is somewhat different in each book. Sincerely, --Mattisse 21:13, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

My book agrees that the grandest was built by them. Yes. But also, the artisan situation was very complex and maybe this would be an opportunity to get into more of that. Sincerely, --Mattisse 23:42, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

From what I understand an architect functioned as an overseer and contractor, a coordinator, not just planning the overall design. He made it happen. However, the individual artisans with their guilds, functioned more or less autonomously, hence the local and individual variety. The specialist who did epics in bas relief, the sculptor, the craftsman specialising in carving pillars etc. -- really remarkably sophisticated. A temple was a huge undertaking. (That is why the guilds suddenly became more interesting to me plus the merchant guilds controlling trade. You don't hear about that much, but that was the heart of it, it seems. --Mattisse 00:06, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Inscriptions

A FA article would have to cover the multiple modes of inscriptions. And the multiple messages they conveyed. And the multiple reasons for making them. (India is layers and layers.) --Mattisse 00:09, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

( copied from my talk page where I answered accidently)

Modes of inscriptions? Do you mean languages?Dineshkannambadi 00:12, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I mean coins, carving in rock, carving on the wall of temples, writing on palm leaves and probably many other ways I don't know about. When you say, "inscriptions show", I wonder what kind of inscription -- besides the languages. Inscriptional evidence is found all over India, from what I can gather. --Mattisse 00:18, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I feel like giving you a list of things to photograph before your trip (coming up soon)! --Mattisse 00:23, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I read somewhere that during India's so-called down period (when it seem overridden with others and not a major power) that this was an enormously productive period because India learned and integrated so much from these invaders, and absorbed it. And these business guilds were major players. Everyone had their role, while the kings and dynasties were off fighting -- you said yourself in the last article that the trade guilds managed to be independent of these partisan politics. All this concentration on religion, (philosophy) or whatever you want to call it , did not seem to get in the way of practical matters. And by the way, my new computer's chat line is in Chennai and they are excellent. --Mattisse 00:34, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Limits

Well, I know you are a human being and have limits (even if they are not apparent) so I don't expect you to pull off miracles, especially at your family's expense. But maybe if we organised prior, your path would be clearer so you could use your time more wisely. (Of course, I am only thinking of myself!) Sincerely, Mattisse 00:41, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Caves and history

I have been trying for a while (and have given up on for now) to shape up my article Indian rock cut architecture. In reference to your question about the Pandyan influence, my book source is Rajan, K. V.Soundara, Rock-Cut Temple Styles: Early Pandyan Art and The Ellora Shrines, Somaiya Publications, Mumbai, 1998. Sincerely, --Mattisse 15:07, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

"The Pandyan creations in cave art form . . ." --Mattisse 15:43, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

"..the nearly three dozen examples of the early Pandyan cave temples (and a priceless monolith at Kalugumalai...)" I am pointing out that the 34 caves at Ellora were Pandyan. --Mattisse 15:50, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Does it have to be built by a king to qualify? --Mattisse 15:59, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

It says they were built with the patronage of traders around the capital of Madurai; the insistent demand of cult groups had seemingly produced these cave shrines for their own Gods. Pandyan cave are reveals several such cults etc. --Mattisse 16:04, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm talking about the 34 Ellora cave shrines you attributed to the other kingdon/dynasty. --Mattisse 16:06, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

O.K. I'll look at the link, but the Ellora complex was built over a 500 year time span (maybe 300 -- can't remember) and involved three different dynasty/kingdoms plus local influence. --Mattisse 16:10, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

At the moment I don't have scan nor fax, but I'll see what I can do. I am pretty much quoting from the author. --Mattisse 16:14, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Plus I have read elsewhere that Buddhists almost always located their cave temples near centers and crossroads of commerce so in some way were connected with trade. --Mattisse 16:14, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

(unindent) This is a quote from the World Heritage Site description: "Ellora, with its uninterrupted sequence of monuments dating from A.D. 600 to 1000, . . .". Your guy is wrong, I believe. --Mattisse 16:24, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[6] The architect was probably responsible for Kailasa Temple, the last and most spectacular. --Mattisse 16:35, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I saw the link you sent me. please be careful while referening to these blog sites. There coud be altered information there. They are not written by scholars.Dineshkannambadi 17:11, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm getting mixed up

The traders were not from the caves. They were from the cities. (This combination was common as Buddhists, although in caves, were almost always near major trading routes, and in this case, a major port.) I'm frustrated because I put a footnote reference on the Kailash Temple article, with page numbers, and now I can't find it in the book!. Darn.

Another quote from the book:

"If we look at another aspect of later Ellora art, we may see that both Brahmanical religion and Jainism developed at an even pace and drew from a common pool of architectural and sculptural codes under the even-handed patronage of most of the Rastrakuta kings. Both these religions were responsible for this sublime coexistence." p 127

In other articles, you wrote that kings and other wealthy people partonised temples, but they did not care necessarily about the architecture or details. (Maybe I should send you my book!) --Mattisse 17:16, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

O.K.

I will stop consulting the Rock-Cut Temple Styles booK by K.V. Soundara Rajan. --Mattisse 18:10, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I will stop consulting the The Hindu Temple book by George Michell as it says same thing. --Mattisse 18:13, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

This kindom business

I have been pondering this. Is the "Big Dig" in Boston a Clinton dynasty undertaking as it started during his presidency? My now discredited book (Rock-cut Temple Styles) says that that "Ellora's pre-eminent art comprised the earlier part of the Rastrakuta phase, in the period between A.D. 735 and 875."

He connects this with Dantidurga making Ellora his capital. Why?

1. In Ellora there was a continuity of guild activity among artisans, probably enriched by the new influx of artisan who gave a new touch to the art idiom.
2. Buddhism overlapped the Brahnanical, producing a transitional stage of experimentation distinctive from the style of the newcomers, the Rastrakutas, a new vogue. A new phase resulted, innovative in temper, technique, modulations, and cult milieu.

To me this means the culture, the artisans etc., not the kingdom/dynasty were the creators. I don't think the kings cared as long as something was built. Sincerely, --Mattisse 19:42, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I think they did pretty much hand over the money and walk away. These artisans were established guilds, powerful with known reputations. Without them, nothing would have been built. The kings/traders probably did have some overall notions, but my now discredited book describes how the architects/craftsmen/ builders etc. had to constantly readjust the design as they met conditions in the medium (stone) that made their original plan impossible. I doubt they contacted the king/trader at each juncture. Decisions had to be made on a daily basis based on their expertise. The patrons only wanted an admirable finished product which these extremely experienced, talented, and flexible craftsmen/artisans were able to produce. Those kings were off fighting all those wars or writing literary works. You have not described one that was interested in building or engineering or architecture. Their forte was military strategy and diplomacy -- marrying their daughters to the right kingdoms etc., or in the case of traders, travelling to Siraf and enriching India. Sincerely, --Mattisse 19:54, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I find it hard to believe that anyone could be interested in this discussion besides you and me -- both equally stubborn. --Mattisse 20:14, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

White House?

Not very influenced. As they say, "All politics is local." Are you? Sincerely, --Mattisse 20:33, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

All wet

I withdrawn all my objections and comments. Looking into it further, and trying to read my books, I realise I don't understand anything. Sincerely, --Mattisse 23:36, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Reply: Chavundaraya

I know. :-) But, please wait, for just a few more minutes. It is all set for the next update: Template:Did_you_know/Next_update. - KNM ^Talk 00:17, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Agreed!

Onward on your path. Sincerely, --Mattisse 00:55, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

On 14 March, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Chavundaraya, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--Mgm|^(talk) 09:54, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

What's cooking?

Hi Dinesh! How are you? What's cooking in your kitchen now? I mean which article is the next target? :) Happy editing! Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 15:51, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

copper plate

Kannada inscription

Is this a copper plate? Sincerely, Mattisse 22:05, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

hero stone

Do you know of a photo or image of one? I have looked all over the place for one. Sincerely, Mattisse 22:40, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Here's one :) Sarvagnya 01:40, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

You have to orient me!

Altekar is?

Snow is? (You have to shovel it or something? You are supposed to be reading and writing!)

Western Chalukyas to FAC - that is the easy one, right? The first step?

I have been reading about Rashtrakuta - complicated picture! K.V Soundara Rajan thinks there was a power grab.

Sincerely, Mattisse 00:20, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

and you are from (fill in the blanks) ___________. I'm obstinate by nature - hopefully not to an obnoxious degree.

Plus, I would really like to know what a microchip designer does "at the office". Sincerely, Mattisse 00:41, 18 March 2007 (UTC)