User talk:Betty Logan/Archive 10

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Betty Logan. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 5

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Archive 8

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Sorry for butting in...

Hope my comments to Huggums weren't out of line? I'd really like to see them succeed here, but...well, I think the comment I left spoke for itself. I'm glad you're trying to help them, though right now they seem to be their own worst enemy. Unfortunate. DonIago (talk) 16:48, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

He's under some pretty tough sanctions so I can understand why he's not happy about it. He feels he has "served his time" and his punishment is being unjustly extended but there was considerable opposition to him being unblocked (including another admin). 5 albert square took a punt on him and many admins wouldn't have done given the level of opposition. He needs to earn some goodwill from the community before the sanctions are reviewed. Betty Logan (talk) 17:11, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

That was the sense I'd gotten, for better or worse. I just hope he can live with being unhappy but keeping it under his hat for awhile versus being unhappy and chomping at the bit over it. DonIago (talk) 03:21, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

I couldn't help but notice the conversation here, as it's on my watchlist. This is a perfect example of how misunderstood my position is, and of what a totally foreign type of subculture Wikipedia is to me. I honestly believe the whole thing has more to do with Wiki-politics/culture than it has to do with my ability to collaborate, or the actual level of trust anyone has with me.

The reason I say this is because hardly anybody actually listens here. They just follow Wikipedia norms in a sheepish manner, without questioning if there could be a better way, or thinking for themselves about better ways to accomplish things.

I say that because if anybody had listened to me from the very beginning, then they would know that this notion that I'm somehow unhappy about my unblock could not be further from the truth.

I don't know if anyone reading this has been lengthily blocked before, but I can tell you from experience that I'm very happy to be unblocked, and to have talk page access again. The difference in freedom is unbelievable.

It's just that I disagree with so many aspects of the unblock conditions, in terms of consensus, procedure and from technical violations standpoints.

These violations were not in my favor, but in favor of those "Standard Wikipedia norms" I spoke about earlier. This is just fundamentally wrong. Anyone who does not see this and realize it must be what I would probably call, "Wikipediliazed" (A term I just now came up with on the fly that is a variation of the term Institutionalized).

I have actually espoused these feelings since before my unblock, while discussions were still in UTRS, but immediately made them public at the very moment of my actual first comment upon returning from being unblocked...See diff here.

It is for this reason that I see fit to forgive anyone of the ignorance of their misperceptions, because they did not have the admin rights that are required to see what was going on at the UTRS in order to get the full picture and formulate a correct opinion.

Can I live with it? Sure. It seems I don't have much choice if I am but a single person attempting to reason with so many people who have been "Wikipedialized" in the confines of a system that is well known for showing favoritism to admins, and not being so partial to newer users.

That is the system I chose to join, so I guess I have to operate under those "rules", even if they technically are not actually the real rules, but are just the unspoken ways of how this system really works around here. (That's the Wikipedia subculture I spoke about earlier that is such a foreign concept to me.)

If anyone would like to tell me, "You just don't get it", then let me save you the trouble and freely admit that I really don't get it, and I truly wonder if it would even be the right thing for me to have any desire to "get it"... Huggums537 (talk) 13:13, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

Huggums...to be brutally honest...TL;DR. You seem well-meaning, and I believe you want what you believe is best for the project, but I'm not heavily invested in this and I don't want to be heavily invested, and consequently I'm disclined to spend the amount of time and effort necessary to review blocks of text such as the above. I wish you all the best, but I think you're asking a lot of editors/admins when you respond at such length, and my concern, which perhaps I didn't verbalize as clearly as I might have, was that the merits you outline in such lengthy responses may be outweighed by the fact that you're going to such lengths in the first place. If I had one suggestion for you, it would be that you be more concise when expressing yourself. Cheers. DonIago (talk) 16:52, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

No worries. I was thinking about one day responding to the TLDR essay with a humorous counter-essay of my own entitled, "Too inconsequential; didn't evaluate". I'm not begging anyone to give a hoot, it's up to each person if they choose to or not. I appreciate the suggestion. I choose to express myself as much as I feel is needed. I hope my brevity here proves my ability to be concise enough. Thanks. Huggums537 (talk) 21:29, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

You're very welcome, and I wish you all the best! DonIago (talk) 14:07, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Disruptive editor at List of James Bond villains

Guess what? That IP's back again at List of James Bond villains! Just letting you know. --Ted Edwards 13:03, 13 January 2019 (UTC) I've also told Bishonen, who's previously blocked the IP. --Ted Edwards 13:04, 13 January 2019 (UTC) And Bishonen's blocked them for a month. Phew! --Ted Edwards 13:18, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, Ted. Relieved to have missed the drama; nobody needs that on a Sunday. Betty Logan (talk) 13:26, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

No problem! Although I haven't reverted their last edit, because that would mean I would have breached WP:3RR. That may sound pedantic but I'm like to be strict with myself, otherwise I would break it left, right, and center. Wondering if you could do it? --Ted Edwards 13:30, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Done. Betty Logan (talk) 13:34, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Turbo: A Power Rangers Movie#Critical reception

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Turbo: A Power Rangers Movie#Critical reception. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 10:01, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi!

Just wanted to say thanks for your help with Huggums -- 5 albert square (talk) 21:43, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Not sure it counts as "help" when he seemingly managed to piss off every admin on Wikipedia but I appreciate the sentiment! Betty Logan (talk) 23:50, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Number order

But that's a rank, How can two films with same budget can be in different rank ? Wiki KuthiVaiyans (talk) 00:52, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Entries on the same budget should have the same rank. But similarly, if two entries share a rank then the next entry needs to skip a rank i.e. if you have two entries at #10 then the next rank is #12, not #11, because there are already 11 entries in the chart. Betty Logan (talk) 02:04, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

18 March

Would you please mind if you reply my opinion in Talk:Motion_picture_content_rating_system? I wrote it 2 days ago (16 March).Zenkaino lovelive (talk) 03:43, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

partial revert

Hi, Betty Logan. Is there some reason my edit was partially reverted? Angela Maureen (talk) 01:05, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

Per my edit summary "partial r/v to MPAA wording" i.e. I have restored the actual wording used by the MPAA rating in the given source. This is also the grammatically correct conjunction for how the rating operates. Changing the "and" to an "or" alters the semantic meaning of the rating i.e. the rating could be used to bar 17 year-olds but allow in those under the age of age 17, or conversely permit 17 year-olds and bar those under the age of 17. The rating is intended to prohibit both audiences aged 17 and audiences under the age of 17, not one or the other, which is why the "and" is the correct conjunction to use. I appreciate it is only one word but it alters the meaning of the sentence. The rest of your changes were fine though, so thank you for those. Betty Logan (talk) 03:33, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

the rowspans on snooker world rankings look terrible.

it looks much better the way I had done it — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.251.229.38 (talk) 03:17, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

I don't agree. When players "share" a position it is always clearer when rowspans are used. This is also common practice on other snooker articles such as Maximum break. Betty Logan (talk) 03:31, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

Table color schemes

Hello, Betty! I'm just letting you know that I responded to your points at Talk:Motion_picture_content_rating_system#RfC: Should we install a color scheme with 9 colors in the comparison table?. If you're still interested in helping out, please let me know and we can organize something.Zenkaino lovelive (talk) 04:46, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

It is an RFC. We don't organize anything. It is a community decision now. Betty Logan (talk) 04:58, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

The RfC is working. Can I change color right now? See:User:Zenkaino_lovelive/sandbox Zenkaino lovelive (talk) 00:50, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

You don't seem to understand. The point of an RFC is to hand a dispute over to the community. We can't change anything now. It is up to the community to decide what happens. Betty Logan (talk) 09:23, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	Thanks for the correction. I truly apologize for my mistake and will do my best to not repeat it. Sc2353 (talk) 00:54, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

James Bond bio

Greetings. I noted that you indicated that the second half of the sentence added is not in the source. My copy of Moonraker has a a footnote towards the end indicating that the date of the Moonraker test launch (thus the day Bond defeated Drax) was November 1954 (I forgot the exact date). Was that footnote not from Fleming? Emperor001 (talk) 11:59, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, the way I interpreted your edit was that the date itself was not explicitly given. Rather than use vague phrasing such as "indicate" perhaps it would be better if you simply incorporate the above in the article to avoid potential confusion. Betty Logan (talk) 12:14, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Just changed the wording a bit. Emperor001 (talk) 14:56, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

What is the problem with me adding a list of world number one snooker players by weeks ?.

Can season's not be broken down into weeks ?. Don't disrespect me by calling my work a mess btw ok. This has been broken down into weeks by World Snooker and others previously. DooksFoley147 (talk) 13:17, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Are you saying this is not a mess: [1]? Anyway, in answer to your question, Hendry was not #1 for 471 weeks in a comparable sense to Selby's 321 weeks. I get the sense you are a young person who is a new fan of snooker, and you possibly don't understand how the old ranking used to work. But the point is that under the old system a player only had to be ranked #1 after the world championship to be ranked #1 for a full year, but in the modern system the rankings are updated after every tournaments. It is a false comparison, because Hendry literally only had to be #1 for one week out of 52 to get a full year at #1, whereas Selby has be #1 for 52 weeks out of 52 to get a full year. There is a full explanation at List_of_world_number_one_snooker_players#Players_ranked_number_one_at_the_start_of_the_season. That is why why we have two separate tables, one for the annual updates and one for the rolling ranks. The only way in which the two eras are comparable is on a seasonal basis, which is why we also have a list showing the ranks of each player at the start of every season. Betty Logan (talk) 16:32, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Notice of noticeboard discussion

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is "Concerns Regarding User:Bbb23 and Possible Misuse of Admin/CU Abilities". Thank you. Notifying you as I mentioned your name. Nil Einne (talk) 10:22, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

revert

@Betty Logan: noticing your revert, I do not quite understand:

Removal of the file position because the file is placed automatically on the right side of the article if not explicite indicatedn. IS that no longer valid now?
Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Linking#Duplicate and repeat links ... Generally, a link should appear only once in an article, but if helpful for readers, a link may be repeated in infoboxes, tables, image captions, footnotes, hatnotes, and at the first occurrence after the lead ... Is that no longer valid now?

Thank you for your time. Lotje (talk) 05:17, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

These films already have links right next to the images so the extra links in the captions are unnecessary! Betty Logan (talk) 05:23, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

As per the article on Douglas Fairbanks in Robin Hood ...was one of the most expensive films of the 1920s, with a budget estimated at approximately one million dollars. Should that film be added to the article you think? Lotje (talk) 05:57, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

The exact cost of Robin Hood was $930,042.78, so while it was very expensive for its time it never held the record. Betty Logan (talk) 07:06, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

Revert question

Hi, @Betty Logan:

I saw you reverted my change to the Gone with the Wind (film). I'd like to make sure I'm following best practices going forward, but I wasn't quite clear on which ways the link violated Wikipedia's External Links policies. I appreciate your help!

Thank you, Sldevine (talk) 20:45, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Links that can be added fall into three categories, as explained at WP:ELYES. Your link doesn't satisfy the first two by definition and I don't see how it satisfies the third one either. Betty Logan (talk) 20:55, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Revert on Century breakturies

Hi, why did you undo my edit on Century break, it was corect, John Higgins has got 753 centuries moving him up a tier to be with Hendry, I removed the source because it no longer applied (the source said he was on 700) but my change of information was correct so why did you revert. SSSB (talk) 13:34, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Read WP:Verifiability not truth. If the information has changed then update it with a WP:Reliable source, but please don't change it and leave it unsourced. Being out of date is preferable to being unsourced. Betty Logan (talk) 13:37, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

List of most expensive films

Could you please explain why you reverted my edit? That wasn't original research, I added reliable sources.--Mazewaxie 16:26, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

You added sources for the individual films and added them up. There are several reasons why you cannot do this:

Sometimes the costs are shared and may be counted twice in individual budgets or not at all, which is why you need a source for the joint production cost.
Sometimes costs can be incurred after the joint production is finished, say for example if re-shoots are required. This famously occurred on Superman 2.
The existing source actually gives four figures: 260, 270, 285 and 360. Who knows which one is correct? As the lead explains for the purposes of ranking the lower-bound figure is used when there are conflicting estimates.

Hope this clarifies the issue. Betty Logan (talk) 16:38, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

I got your point, but if you look on the internet "$281 million" is the most frequent figure, and its not even mentioned in the article right now.--Mazewaxie 16:59, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

The chart ranks by the lowest sourceable estimate not the most frequent because that is open to personal judgment depending on which sources you look at. If you have a source that actually gives a figure of $281 million as opposed to three separate figures that add up to $281 million then I would recommend adding it to the accompanying note, which does already include other figures: List_of_most_expensive_films#cite_note-lord_of_the_rings-120. Betty Logan (talk) 17:13, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

I added it, I hope its ok. Happy editing!--Mazewaxie 17:37, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

Since I see you giving templated 3RR warnings to regulars who haven't violated it, I felt I should come by to let you know that yesterday you violated 3RR on List of highest-grossing films, with a total of 6 reverts within 24 hours. Reminder that 3RR cuts both ways. -- ferret (talk) 14:09, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

@Ferret: A sequence of reverts count as a single edit and are sometimes necessary during the course of reverting an edit if the edits were subsequently made to the edit you are reverting. I could have made just one big revert but this would have wiped out correct and legitimate edits, so a piecemeal approach was more appropriate. I think if you review my edits you will see they were conducted in good faith with proper reasons behind them. The "three" reverts I made yesterday related to the following:

Reverting original research that violated Wikipedia's rules on verifiability: [2] (three continuous reverts and one edit). My revert was not contested and you will see I am actively involved in good faith discussions on the talk page in attempt to resolve this issue with the adjusted table.
Reverting the addition of an image: [3] (two continuous reverts). Again this was not contested, and this is also an issue under discussion on the talk page.
Reverting the addition of sortability to one of the tables, that does not actually sort the table [4] (1 revert). This is a contested revert, and the only edit I made yesterday that could constitute edit-warring.

I realize it is also your prerogative to warn editors for edit-warring but the only revert that could constitute edit-warring on my part is the revert to the sortability of the table i.e. reverting a revert. However, as you will see from the discussion on the talk page there is no consensus to add sortability to the table, mostly because it does not sort. If an editor is a regular then I am sure you will agree with me that the regular should also know they should take the dispute to the talk page, which is why I left an edit-warring notice. The edit-warring noticeboard actually recommends that you warn an edit-warring editor using this notice if you intend to report them. There is a discussion on the talk page regarding this issue where another editor supports my position. I reverted this editor twice and started a discussion about the issue; the editor trying to force through the issue has now pushed through the edit three times and is yet to join the talk page. If the other editor does not join the discussion within 24 hours I intend to revert him again in accordance with the two views expressed at the discussion, and if he reverts after that without joining the discussion I will report him for edit-warring. I am confident that an admin will see that I have taken reasonable steps to resolve the issue because at the end of the day WP:Communication is required. I hope I have provided sufficient context for my actions and you are satisfied by my response. Betty Logan (talk) 18:13, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Ronnie O'Sullivan's Current Ranking is missing from his infobox !

Hello Betty I noticed Ronnie's "current ranking" is missing from his page in his infobox whereas all other player's have their current ranking intact. Can you tell me how to edit "current rankings in the players infobox as I never see it in there ?. I only ever see "High Rank". how do you edit it so please ?. Regards 92.251.173.108 (talk) 14:11, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Did you get my message ? 178.167.211.161 (talk) 16:53, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

I see the ranking when I go to his page. It is between "Highest ranking" and "career winnings" in the infobox. The rankings are updated automatically so editors don't need to worry about it. If there is a problem it is best to drop a note at the snooker project. Betty Logan (talk) 21:28, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Lists of highest grossing films.

Greetings Mrs. Logan. I have recently found inflation adjustment box office articles on IMDb and found them to be pretty sensible. Guinness method of inflation adjustment was quite faulty placing Titanic behind Star Wars even with the former's much much bigger box office gross and success outside the United States. In the US, I found The Numbers adjusted list to be much better consolidated since theatrical admissions in the Box Office Mojo list for E.T. and The Sound of Music were overestimated, because of faulty calculation in the former movie's case, and lack of sufficient theatrical ticket prices data in the latter. With all due respect, I hope that you consider my edits on this page to be genuine and in good faith. Thank you Movieboxoffice MovieBoxoffice (talk) 13:04, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

IMDB is not a reliable source and you provide no evidence that Guinness' inflation adjustment is "faulty". You also provide no evidence that the data provided by The Numbers is more accurate than that at Box Office Mojo. If this were indeed the case the source would need to be switched over for the whole chart and not cherry-picked for a few films. Betty Logan (talk) 13:15, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Stephen Hendry article

Just because you don’t like Stephen Hendry does not mean you should set out to sabotage his page. “Arguably the greatest...” is a neutral term which the mainstream media use all the time. If you continue to breach the 3 edits rule you risk being banned. Alwaysrightman (talk) 15:54, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

The mainstream media use the term because more often than not they don't have facts to back up their claims. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not the mainstream media. "Arguably" is WP:EDITORIALIZING and is probibited. Betty Logan (talk) 16:36, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Battlefield Earth (film)#Regarding a certain detail in the plot

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Battlefield Earth (film)#Regarding a certain detail in the plot. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 06:02, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

List of highest-grossing films

In this edit I only changed Middle-earth series to Middle-earth series. It somehow automatically changed "title= " too. It was not my intention. Sorry.--Mazewaxie 09:31, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

I don't know why but it changes this automatically. Maybe because I use wikEd? I'm sorry for that, I'm not doing that on purpose.--Mazewaxie 16:15, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

I have picked this up at Talk:List_of_highest-grossing_films#The_Towering_Inferno_source with a fuller explanation of the problem. Maybe you should explain at the talk page exactly what is happening and somebody may have a solution. Betty Logan (talk) 16:21, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

Hi, I'm sorry for my mistake, I misread an article and thought that Captain Marvel ended its worldwide run. Anyway, how can I know when a film end its run worldwide? Here it seems that Captain Marvel isn't in cinemas anymore. --Mazewaxie 11:07, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

The worldwide chart on BOM uses US release dates. You can see which countries it is still playing on the "foreign" tab: https://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=intl&id=marvel2018a.htm. It was still playing in Brazil, Finland and Germany as of last week. We won't know if it is still playing this week until next week's box-office update. However, it is not a big deal if the film stays highlighted for a couple of weeks after it closes. It is more problematic if the highlighting is removed, people stop checking it, and we miss further updates. Betty Logan (talk) 14:48, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

List of natural horror films

Betty logan Those changes reflect some of cinemas most renowned films belonging to the genre . If people click onto the movie title they will be redirected to its main page . Do you think people are unaware of jurrassic park, jurrassic world, Godzilla , Godzila ( 2014) and Anaconda . This "unsourced content" argument by editors is becoming tiresome. I won't try and make those changes again and I'm done with it all . Everything must be according to experienced editors wishes and if you argue with that then they get insulted and start with threats . At least you didn't. Hpdh4 17:30, 13 July 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by HPDEATHLYHALLOWS4 (talk • contribs)

Everything must be done in accordance with policy, in this case WP:Verifiability. Some of those films you added may well belong on the list, but others are more questionable. Is Jurassic World really a "horror"? Highly questionable. Wikipedia is for facts not our own opinions, even if they are correct! Betty Logan (talk) 17:34, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Birth years of Millennials

Hello, if you look at the "Date and age range definitions" section, you will find that most of the definitions used state that Millennials were born some time between the early 1980s to the mid-1990s. So that was perfectly reasonable. Nerd271 (talk) 02:16, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

The dates given in the article for the end years comprise 1994, 95, 96, 99, 2000, 2001 and 2004 (with the latter date given by the authors who coined the phrase "millenial"). The current version of the lead encompasses all the dates given. It is not necessary for the lead to become selective, its function is to summarise. The lead has been discussed at some length already and this is the wording that was settled on. If you want to re-open the discussion then please start a discussion on the article talk page. Betty Logan (talk) 02:24, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Well, when summarizing it is often necessary to be selective. Most sources use the period 1981-1996 as the birth years of Millennials. A few stretch it to the late 1990s and only two to the early 2000s. In the lead of the article, it is a good idea to use the most commonly used definition, if there are more than one definition. Nerd271 (talk) 02:30, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

The sources used in the article may favor the 1996 date but that is not necessarily reflective of how much credence is given to that dates in general usage. There is substantial variation of opinion and you would need a source that specifically quantifies usage to draw such conclusions. But regardless, the wording of the lead was discussed at length and reflects the existing consensus, and my talk page is not the place to build to a new consensus. Betty Logan (talk) 02:47, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Category talk page

Hi, following deletion of the category, let me know if it would be useful to archive the talk page Category_talk:Articles_with_images_not_understandable_by_color_blind_users somewhere. – Fayenatic London 18:39, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, but I am pretty sure that everything that needed to be preserved has been copied into H:Colorblind. Betty Logan (talk) 21:15, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

July 2019

Your recent editing history at List of highest-grossing films shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. -- /Alex/₂₁ 02:21, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

One further revert and you will be eligible to be reported to WP:AN3. -- /Alex/₂₁ 02:22, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Just for the record, there were only two reverts and Alex removed the image that was agreed in a discussion on the talk page. Betty Logan (talk) 21:17, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Italics vandalism

Betty, I think I saw an edit where you reverted an IP editor's removal of italics from the film infobox's "Based on" value. I had to revert similarly here. Do you know the backstory for this behavior? Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 17:50, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

It has been going for a week or so now. I have tried to discuss the issue but the problem is the editor's IP number keeps changing so I don't know if he ever gets the messages. I revert it whenever I see it but he makes such huge sweeping changes it is difficult to keep up. I don't know how to resolve the issue really; there is clarly a communication problem, blocking would have no effect and there are too many articles to protect. Betty Logan (talk) 21:21, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for sharing. I'll revert when I see it and track similar edits under the offending IP address. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 21:28, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

~ welcome ~

Hi Betty, Nice to meet you ~ I was going to give a you cup of tea ~ but ~ I see you have been here for a while ~ I added The Terminator to my watch page a few days ago when I had to reference the article here, and I was just checking the last edit and saw a red name ~ which led me to you ~ so here I am ~ if I can do anything for you please let me know ~ once again it's nice to meet you ~mitch~ (talk) 01:29, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

Hi Mitch, nice to meet you too. Betty Logan (talk) 11:52, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

List of highest-grossing openings for films

Dear Betty Logan, would you like to take a look at the page List of highest-grossing openings for films. At the moment, I think many users are processing incorrect information. I am not very well known in the English wikipedia but I saw your name in the history of the page, and with your Wikipedia-experience I think I can best ask you this. If I use this [link] I get other data for example at: The Lion King. Maybe you could help me out and control the page. Thank you in advance. RuedNL2 (talk) 21:25, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

That's the correct link but the source says that The Lion King had an opening of $246 million, not $543 million. Betty Logan (talk) 22:15, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

Yes I know what the source says and I knew that the opening was not $543 million, that's why I approached you and another user. That other user had already adjusted it before you responded. But thanks anyway. RuedNL2 (talk) 17:20, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Barnstar of Diligence
	For your guidance and for your contributions on List of highest-grossing films. Mazewaxie 14:02, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

Force Awakens

OK. I understand, but why don't the numbers match the ones here? https://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm 2A02:C7F:8CA1:C900:F0FB:A2CF:8C1E:758D (talk) 08:52, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

It is probably just a rounding error. The dollar figure only has three digits whereas the gross has nine digits. Betty Logan (talk) 09:03, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Then it should round to $974, not $990.

Look, I will send them an email, and I will see what they can do, but what are we going to do about our pickle? 2A02:C7F:8CA1:C900:F0FB:A2CF:8C1E:758D (talk) 09:08, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

It's a rounding error so you don't need to do anything. $974,117,051 is the same number as $974,117,000 at three digits of precision. Betty Logan (talk) 09:22, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Then it should read $974 million, not $990 million 2A02:C7F:8CA1:C900:F0FB:A2CF:8C1E:758D (talk) 09:31, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

It reads $974,117,051, not $990 million. I don't know where you are getting the $990 million figure. Betty Logan (talk) 09:36, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

The top box here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_films_in_the_United_States_and_Canada 2A02:C7F:8CA1:C900:F0FB:A2CF:8C1E:758D (talk) 09:40, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

They use different inflation indeces. The top table uses the Consumer price Index and the bottom table uses Box Office Mojo's ticket price inflator. They are just different methods of inflation. If you look at Avatar and Titanic they are also different in the two tables. Personally I agree it is confusing, but as it stands it is correct. Betty Logan (talk) 09:45, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

So which one am I meant to believe?2A02:C7F:8CA1:C900:64E1:8A0B:390F:A8E5 (talk) 11:54, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

They are both right. They just use different methodologies. However, the figures in the bottom table are more commonly cited. All it means is that ticket prices have increased in price at a slightly lower rate than general inflation. Betty Logan (talk) 11:59, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

So that means that TFA did $774 Mill? If so then gr8. I did not like that movie, but I LOVE Endgame!2A02:C7F:8CA1:C900:64E1:8A0B:390F:A8E5 (talk) 12:27, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

The domestic figures don't matter. Endgame trounced The Force Awakens worldwide. Betty Logan (talk) 12:36, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Bond

Thanks. Your change was better than mine but more importantly better than what was there before. -- 109.255.158.125 (talk) 21:25, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

You are welcome! Betty Logan (talk) 10:55, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

Millennials

BL, I am attempting to come to an understanding with you? Is that a possibility? Kolya Butternut (talk) 21:29, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

When there is a dispute about article content the correct place to come to an understanding is the article talk page, as explained by WP:BRD: "Discuss the contribution, and the reasons for the contribution, on the article's talk page with the person who reverted your contribution." There are no further disagreements between us beyond the scope of one particular article so there is no value in moving the discussion elsewhere. Betty Logan (talk) 13:18, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

Incivility

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Kolya Butternut (talk) 23:04, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

~question ~ why is the tower lean~

	She skips Pizza ~
	Hi! Betty Logan ~ I just wanted to tell you 'I think you are doing a great job' if i ever need my computer fixed I will definitely give you a call ~ did I spell 'computer' right? ~mitch~ (talk) 23:25, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

Thankyou, although I am not sure I would be much use fixing your computer. I usually just reboot windows and pray! Betty Logan (talk) 23:45, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

List of highest-grossing films

Hi, the commentary you removed "The Marvel Cinematic Universe became the highest-grossing franchise in 2015, surpassing the Harry Potter film series." is not unsourced. I added a source for that in the body of the article because I thought that a ref in a caption looked bad. --Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 16:00, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

I honestly don't think that level of detail is needed in a caption. The caption should be just some basic fact. When you think about it it doesn't really matter when it became the highest-grossing film or which franchise it overtook, because this aspect is not even included in the prose. Betty Logan (talk) 16:05, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

Okay, I added it only to give the image some info that wasn't already covered. Anyway the current caption it's okay for me. I'm gonna remove the source that I added. --Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 16:32, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

FA needs comments

Hi Betty, hope you are well.

You recently said you'd look at an old FA for me, but it closed before you could. I have another one open that'll likely close without having enough comments, if possible, could you take a look at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/2019 Tour Championship/archive1? Thank you! Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:17, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

OK, Lee, I'm happy to take a look at it. Betty Logan (talk) 16:14, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Self-published books

Hi. You reverted my removal of a couple of books published through a vanity press. I have inserted {{cn}}. The text this self-published content was supporting appears to be trivia, so feel free to remove it altogether if you prefer. Guy (Help!) 15:33, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

For your perusal

Hi BL. I thought I'd leave this here rather than on the thread about the dates in the film. Here is a nice website with a good bit of info about the theater that I saw 2001 in. While it didn't have the architectural glories of the movie palaces of old it was a great place to see any film. Enjoy. MarnetteD|Talk 03:07, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

Discussion at Template talk:Infobox film#‎RfC: Is it relevant to list all composers for the film's music score and songs?

You are invited to join the discussion at Template talk:Infobox film#‎RfC: Is it relevant to list all composers for the film's music score and songs?. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 06:33, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Neutral notice

This is a neutral notice to all registered editors who have contributed to Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Film over the past year (Sept. 15, 2018-present) that a Request for Comment has been posted here. --Tenebrae (talk) 14:52, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

War and Peace (film series)

Can you explain why you reverted the changes I made on this page? The reason linked was to Self-published sources, but the source I gave was a 1972 Newsday article that is sourced two other times. And believe me, I did not publish Newsday in 1972. Thanks. Chaotic22 (talk) 06:32, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=War_and_Peace_(film_series)&oldid=prev&diff=913124941

The source you are using is a blog, not Newsday. A cutting on a blog is not a legitimate source per WP:SAYWHEREYOUGOTIT. Betty Logan (talk) 14:00, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

The source is not the blog. The source is given as the newspaper article, with a link to the blog that contains a photocopy of that article. Even if a photocopy of that newspaper didn't exist online, the article still exists in the archives of the newspaper. Please explain how we can source a newspaper article. Chaotic22 (talk) 03:54, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

I don't actually know the answer so I have taken the liberty of asking your question at the Reliable sources noticeboard. Give it a couple of days for people to respond and I will post up the answer here. Betty Logan (talk) 10:09, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

@Chaotic22: Okay, the consensus at Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Copies_of_reliable_sources_on_blogs seems to be that you can cite the original news story that the clipping comes from but you can't link to the actual blog/screencap itself for copyright reasons. Betty Logan (talk) 23:26, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

Seeking FA review comments for 2019 World Snooker Championship

Hello and thank you for reviewing the 2019 Tour Championship article for FA. Would you be interested in doing the same for the 2019 World Snooker Championship? You might not have noticed that Lee put it on the project page last week. As I did a lot of work on the article before it was nominated, I can't take part in the review and I'm therefore a co-nominator for this one. Any comments/criticisms/suggestions/queries would be most welcome, if you have time to take a look. Thank you! Rodney Baggins (talk) 09:51, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

I'll try and take a look at it tomorrow. I am a bit squeezed for time today. Betty Logan (talk) 19:39, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

Thank you, I hope I didn't imply it was urgent. Any time in the next week or two would be great! Rodney Baggins (talk) 20:40, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

No worries Rodney. It's just that you can't sit down and review an article in 10 minutes, you need to set aside an hour or two. Betty Logan (talk) 22:44, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

Always appreciate your input Betty. Take your time, no rush :). Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:14, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Permalink for Revision 2 not added in the "Snooker world ranking points 2019/2020" article

Hello !

I noticed that the trigger for the third cut-off was launched, but before any permalink for Revision 2 was created. Could you please somehow reverse the page to 13 August (the day just right after Rev 2 ended), add a permalink for Revision 2 and bring back the page to its current revision (or however the procedure works ...) ? I decided to turn to you because I see that you are the only person who performs these kind of activities on this page. Besides, I don't know how this is exactly done, otherwise I may have done it all by myself by now.

NuclearMissile (talk) 15:13, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

The permalink was created, it just wasn't added which I've now done. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Betty Logan (talk) 19:50, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Editor Notice

Notice for the ignorance in this talk section

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_considered_the_best#/talk/6 Ashokkumar47 (talk) 13:28, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

At least they did know enough to give you this notice (although I can't read it on my desktop computer and don't feel like tryihg to read it on an Android). I don't know if you bothered to read it before it was closed, but the filing editor got your gender wrong. I have long been saying at DRN that if an editor doesn't know enough English to be able to present their case in English, they shouldn't engage in dispute resolution. Maybe if an editor doesn't know enough English to know what third person pronoun to use, they shouldn't use WP:ANI. Robert McClenon (talk) 22:52, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

Thank you Robert, but no harm was done. I think it may be less to do with pronouns and perhaps more to do with name recognition. If English is a second language is it reasonable to expect the editor to know the gender difference between Betty and Benny? It's not like we can physically see each other either, so I think we have to give the benefit of the doubt in such cases. Betty Logan (talk) 00:16, 29 September 2019 (UTC)

Yes. In this case he was given a final final warning. I try to give the benefit of the doubt to editors, but I don't give the benefit of the doubt to editors who cast aspersions on other editors (that is, fail to give them the benefit of the doubt). Robert McClenon (talk) 22:49, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

Invitation to talk page

You are invited to the talk page on WP:FILM to discuss the issues with the format of 2019 in film. BattleshipMan (talk) 01:04, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

Single vs back-to-back productions

OK. First, it's not fair on the single productions because they are separate. Second, I think that if they are to exist, then we give them a separate section for back-to-back productions. Do you like my idea or not?Barrow65 (talk) 09:55, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

I have no objections to you restructuring the timeline. My concern was the synthesis regarding the Avengers Endgame figure. Sometimes costs are counted twice when films are filmed back-to-back so you can't simply add two budgets together. Betty Logan (talk) 09:59, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

Also, do you think my edits are justified? I can explain them individually if you like.Barrow65 (talk) 16:38, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

I don't take issue with any of your other edits. Betty Logan (talk) 17:07, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

So, if someone was to ask you (not me) if you approve of my edits or not, what would you tell them?Barrow65 (talk) 17:09, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

It would depend on which set of edits we are discussing. For example, we discussed the edits at List of most expensive films and came to an understanding. I would always suggest discussing edits first either on the article talk page or at the other editor's talk page. Most genuine editing disputes are based on a misunderstandings which can be usually resolved with a bit of good faith and compromise from both parties. If it cannot then a third opinion can be sought from the project overseeing the article. Betty Logan (talk) 17:19, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

With SOTD and HF (2 of my favourite films BTW) I think that per WP WHEIGHT, they should just be British-French productions. But if you want, then ask me some pages why I edited them and I will tell you why I edited them. Choice is yours.Barrow65 (talk) 17:22, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

You've lost me. Which edit are we discussing now? Betty Logan (talk) 17:25, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz.Barrow65 (talk) 17:26, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

The problem with edits like this is more with how they look. You have essentially replaced sourced content with unsourced content. Generally I would revert an edit like that if I did not know the background to it. If you are going to use the Lumiere database to source the countries in this case then ideally you need to add in a citation. Betty Logan (talk) 17:51, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

for tables..

Hi sorry for this :( --2A00:4802:2800:0:0:0:0:155B (talk) 18:20, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

Millennials

Hi, could you take a look at the Millennials article please? An editor removed the RFC consensus statement about birth years reaching "to the early 2000s". Thank you!64.183.43.88 (talk) 22:18, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

ArbCom 2019 election voter message

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Google Code-In 2019 is coming - please mentor some documentation tasks!

Hello,

Google Code-In, Google-organized contest in which the Wikimedia Foundation participates, starts in a few weeks. This contest is about taking high school students into the world of opensource. I'm sending you this message because you recently edited a documentation page at the English Wikipedia.

I would like to ask you to take part in Google Code-In as a mentor. That would mean to prepare at least one task (it can be documentation related, or something else - the other categories are Code, Design, Quality Assurance and Outreach) for the participants, and help the student to complete it. Please sign up at the contest page and send us your Google account address to google-code-in-admins@lists.wikimedia.org, so we can invite you in!

From my own experience, Google Code-In can be fun, you can make several new friends, attract new people to your wiki and make them part of your community.

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--User:Martin Urbanec (talk) 21:58, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

Gen X

Hi, could you take a look at the Gen X page please? The long standing introduction said birth rates range from the early 1960s to the early 1980s. There are plenty of references in the article to support it. Thank you, I appreciate it.64.183.43.88 (talk) 00:48, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

Avatar was not produced by any New Zealand companies.

Why can't I remove the NZ task force thing in the talk page? The task force is of what country paid to make it.2A02:C7D:8EA5:D500:1583:1ACE:8838:F521 (talk) 20:31, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

The taskforce is for any project that has a legitimate interest in the article. You should not be removing articles from taskforces unless are a registered member of the taskforce. The reason the New Zealand taskforce takes an interest in the Avatar article is because the film shot on-location there i.e. the New Zealand film industry and its geography were an integral part of the film's production. Betty Logan (talk) 22:59, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Re: Grand Illusion

I won't deny that I was unhappy with the consensus of the previous RM and this is indeed an attempt to start a fresh discussion. But I have my reasons. Here are the statements of yours from the last RM: "Both titles enjoy substantial usage in English sources, so both titles would be acceptable. However, the current one is the actual French title while the proposed title would need to be disambiguated. It seems like a no-brainer to keep it where it is per WP:NATURALDIS" and "Both are English titles, so both are acceptable. Therefore it seems redundant to me to move the article to a disambiguated title when disambiguation is unnecessary. And yes, WP:NATURALDIS is entirely relevant because the proposed rename has a disambiguator; it would only be irrelevant if you were proposing a move to Grande Illusion." As everyone can see over there, a lot of opposing statements were made solely on the basis of the fact that the new page would need to be disambiguated. (And some others due to the consensus of the other RM in 2012, despite it being 7 years old.) Whereas according to Wikipedia policy, the original Grand Illusion disambiguation page has absolutely no reason to be named "Grand Illusion" since a primary topic clearly exists, which is, of course, the film. That is why this time I nominated the original disambiguation page alongside the film page. Would appreciate if you comment on that issue too. You said that no circumstances have changed in two weeks to warrant a fresh discussion. Well, this is the difference this time that the other page has also been nominated and it deserves its own independent discussion. And I am not trying to own Wikipedia or anything like that. I have so far followed official procedures everywhere as was required. All I am trying to do is start a genuine conversation, which surprisingly very few editors have been interested in. Regards. Cinema Clown (talk) 14:34, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Morning Betty. Thanks for your post on my talkpage and at ANI linked to the above. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 09:29, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

Cheers

Damon Runyon's short story "Dancing Dan's Christmas" is a fun read if you have the time. Right from the start it extols the virtues of the hot Tom and Jerry

This hot Tom and Jerry is an old-time drink that is once used by one and all in this country to celebrate Christmas with, and in fact it is once so popular that many people think Christmas is invented only to furnish an excuse for hot Tom and Jerry, although of course this is by no means true.

No matter what concoction is your favorite to imbibe during this festive season I would like to toast you with it and to thank you for all your work here at the 'pedia this past year. Best wishes for your 2020 as well BL. MarnetteD|Talk 17:29, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

A very happy Christmas and New Year to you!
May 2020 bring you joy, happiness – and no trolls, vandals or visits from Krampus! All the best Gavin / SchroCat (talk) 07:49, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Merry Merry!

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2020!

Hello Betty Logan, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2020.
Happy editing,
★Trekker (talk) 15:37, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.

Merry Merry!

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2020!

Hello Betty Logan, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2020.
Happy editing,
Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 15:59, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.

Season's Greetings

FWiW Bzuk (talk) 01:20, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

Happy New Year Betty Logan!

Happy New Year!

Hello Betty Logan:
Thanks for all of your contributions to improve the encyclopedia for Wikipedia's readers, and have a happy and enjoyable New Year! Cheers, ★Trekker (talk) 19:52, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks (static)}} to user talk pages with a friendly message.

Neutral notice

As an editor who commented at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Film between Jan. 1, 2019, and today, you may wish to join a discussion at that page, here.--Tenebrae (talk) 23:45, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Power Snooker and Tenball

Betty can you help ?. people are adding these two events in the non ranking section of a players career timeline. these are cue sports tournaments not non ranking events. how do we stop this please ? 178.167.162.64 (talk) 19:10, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Jennifer Lee

Let me tell you about Jennifer Lee, she's in love with Alfred Molina, and she is DESTROYING other movies' competitions with Frozen II. For your own good, you must tell the world to pull all theatrical releases of Frozen II! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:197:C181:B70:D4B2:D095:27D9:5950 (talk) 21:11, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

Doctor Zhivago

Doctor Zhivago has United Kingdom listed when the BFI says that Britain was not involved. https://www.bfi.org.uk/films-tv-people/4ce2b6a9082ab Can you update it in these 3 links please? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Zhivago_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Zhivago_(film)#External_links https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Doctor_Zhivago_(film) Cheers. 87.75.119.80 (talk) 12:09, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

There is conflicting information about Doctor Zhivago. The AFI credit the UK alongside US and Italy. It would be better to start a discussion about the issue at the article talk page. Betty Logan (talk) 00:21, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi

hi — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.78.186.200 (talk) 20:35, 4 February 2020 (UTC)