User talk:Beetstra/Archive 19
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It's true that the gates are now open on enwiki, but when looking at this, I've been getting mentioned everywhere about my bot tagging articles. When I looked it seems we were causing more damage than good with the blacklist. At least until we can put together a list of more specific domains to whitelist, I think this is the best solution for the time being.—CYBERPOWER (Happy 2018) 23:21, 6 January 2018 (UTC) Actually running a quick search on IABot's DB of encountered domains, the list is quite massive.
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- @Cyberpower: Yes, I know. Maybe XLinkBot may be a solution for the spambots - should not have to much collateral damage ... --Dirk Beetstra T C 06:34, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
- I ran some DB queries on how much damage this blacklisting caused, and came up with the numbers I posted here.—CYBERPOWER (Happy 2018) 16:12, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
Disambiguation link notification for January 10
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Belated best wishes for a happy 2018
== BoringHistoryGuy (talk) 14:43, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
- @BoringHistoryGuy: thanks! —Dirk Beetstra T C 11:16, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
Charlies magazine
- charlies-magazines.com: Linksearch en (insource) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:fr • Spamcheck • MER-C X-wiki • gs • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced - RSN • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Wikipedia: en - fr - de • Google: search • meta • Domain: domaintools • AboutUs.com
- ayaanproducts.us: Linksearch en (insource) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:fr • Spamcheck • MER-C X-wiki • gs • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced - RSN • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Wikipedia: en - fr - de • Google: search • meta • Domain: domaintools • AboutUs.com
Greetings for the day!!!
This is to bring to your kind notice that my website charlies-magazine.com is blocked on Wikipedia.i am real Owner of website . Some Pakistani peoples hacked my websites including this website and one more my ecommerce site ayaanproducts.us
We, request you to kindly unblock our site: Charlies-magazines.com . Due to unknown reasons this link is blocked and shows in the Spam Blacklist.
We assure that we will abide by the content policies of your sites in the future to avoid any such issues.
I am real owner of this . I have been assigned with the responsibility to take care of the Wikipedia page of our site. Therefore kindly request you to take this mail into your consideration and solve this problem at your earliest.
Regards
Dr Nadeem Hellosialkot77 (talk) 15:53, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
- @Hellosialkot77: You’ll have to make your case on the spam blacklist page (I know you know where it is). Remember, the blacklist is used to protect Wikipedia, we don’t care who spams (but I know you tried). —Dirk Beetstra T C 18:04, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
Can you advise exact page link ? where i can submit my request. i confirm that i have not any spamming on it . i hope you will accept my request . i am surprised that you have also put my 2nd domain name ayaanproducts.us as well . i am really upset about that . this is my humble request please remove my both website in spam links. Now i am full control of our website . Thanks with best wished — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hellosialkot77 (talk • contribs) 06:30, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
- @Hellosialkot77: Defer to Local blacklist, but read the instructions properly.
- And I know that you were trying to add the link to the exact pages where the spammers where adding the link as well. Don't give me that you are not aware of that, nor that you are not aware of the blanking of the reports. Moreover, your username is too similar to one that is already used. If needed, I will ask for CheckUser data to really see whether you are not behind the IPs. You have been warned. --Dirk Beetstra T C 08:08, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
- Agree with User:Beetstra. User was contacting me aswell. Strang really. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 08:21, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
Okay, Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hellosialkot77 (talk • contribs) 08:38, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
Guidance request
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template. at any time by removing the
--- Barek (talk • contribs) - 17:27, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spam#Collection of census-related unreliable links. As you said:) ~ Winged BladesGodric 07:35, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
A barnstar for you!
The Admin's Barnstar | |
You've been doing Whitelist and Blacklist work for at least 4 years. From scrolling through, it looks like you are the main admin, and one of the very few, that work in that area. You deserve a barnstar for this diligence. Vermont | reply here 12:50, 14 February 2018 (UTC) |
- @Vermont: thanks! --Dirk Beetstra T C 13:52, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
Whitelist/Blacklist
I've basically been doing AfC, NPP, and RFC my entire time here on Wikipedia. Is there anything I can do to help out with the whitelist and blacklist, or those general areas? I've noted that most actions in that area seem to be administrators-only. Thanks, Vermont | reply here 00:44, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
- @Vermont: Hi, thanks for the offer, and more help there is very much needed! It is practically all administrative, the actual pages are protected. The talkpages can use help in evaluation (mainly through looking the tracks): does it need blacklisting or can XLinkBot handle it, or are other means more appropriate (blocking editors / page protection); on de-blacklisting is whitelisting more appropriate for a specific link on a specific target, or is the requesting editor likely involved in the request; on whitelisting questions are often whether alternatives exist; whether whitelisting annuls blacklisting; or whether whitelisting is appropriate in the first place.
- When you start hunting for spam, you might want to look at the reports created by COIBot (the underlying bot stats 'new domains' added against users, and makes COIBot report them when suspicious - though this has a lot of false positives; see Wikipedia:WikiProject Spam/LinkReports and Category:Open_Local_COIBot_Reports). Keeping Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spam on your list of things to investigate is also of interest. As you are not an admin, when you start getting a feel for things that can be added to XLinkBot I can give you access to a 'private revertlist', for which you will then be responsible - links matching the rules will get reverted by XLinkBot.
- Your work in NPP may help here as well, you may see the spammy pages coming up there, and often the spammy pages there will also have the creating editor spamming elsewhere. Hope this helps. --Dirk Beetstra T C 05:42, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks! I've joined the -spam IRC channel. To be perfectly honest, I do not fully understand (after reading everything multiple times) how this all works, but I'll try. I think I understand Wikipedia:WikiProject Spam/LinkReports, and I'll watch it and report spam to the blacklist proposals. If there's anything I'm doing wrong, or anything else I should be doing, please tell me. :) Vermont | reply here 11:29, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
- Should hardly be anything that can go wrong .. at worst we decline a bad request, or we miss some cases (but there are not that many people following the reports). --Dirk Beetstra T C 13:11, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
- There's something you should know about a link that I proposed to be on the blacklist that I cannot share on-wiki. What is your IRC nick, if you have one? Vermont | reply here 13:30, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
- 'Beetstra', I am in #Wikipedia-spam-t at the moment (not often on IRC). --Dirk Beetstra T C 13:36, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks! I've joined the -spam IRC channel. To be perfectly honest, I do not fully understand (after reading everything multiple times) how this all works, but I'll try. I think I understand Wikipedia:WikiProject Spam/LinkReports, and I'll watch it and report spam to the blacklist proposals. If there's anything I'm doing wrong, or anything else I should be doing, please tell me. :) Vermont | reply here 11:29, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
casinocitytimes.com
- casinocitytimes.com: Linksearch en (insource) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:fr • Spamcheck • MER-C X-wiki • gs • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced - RSN • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Wikipedia: en - fr - de • Google: search • meta • Domain: domaintools • AboutUs.com
Hello Beetstra, if you have a bit of time could you take a look at the poke report for this domain please? A report was already initiated in May 2017 and is quite huge (and honestly a bit too complex for me to understand in all technical aspects). It seems that opinion pieces from this site are actively promoted via cite spam from related SPA IPs (most recently from 216.116.198.143) - links are routinely added a few days/weeks after their publication. But the site has also a few legitimate uses (for example to verify the self-published statements of gamers and gaming columnists) and some good-faith additions by regular editors - so a full blacklist is possibly the wrong approach. Any advice would be appreciated. GermanJoe (talk) 22:08, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
- @GermanJoe: this boils down to ratios - how many spam insertions vs. How many good insertions. Self/primary sourcing is discouraged, if that makes 1 genuine out of, say, 20 (random number) good you may want to consider the black/whitelist option (if you have to look at it every other day to clean up, and once in a month someone adds a good ref that may/should be replaceable anyway ... I do believe in the punishing factor of having your domains blacklisted (for real spam), unfortunately it is not clear to spammers-to-be that that is their faith).
- Otherwise We feed them to XLinkBot (which is anyway a good start, even if we now decide to blcklist). They may get the message (however unlikely with true spammers), or we can increase harshness on XLinkBot (instead of 5 warnings before AIV we go to ‘1 strike and you are out’), and/or more aggressive reverting.
- I notice subdomains of this domain, is that something we can distinguish on? I’ll have a look on a bigger screen later. —Dirk Beetstra T C 03:48, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you for having a deeper look into this, I'll cleanup some of the more blatant spam in the meantime (primarily coming from the 216.* IPs). Aside from the link spam, there is also an implicit promotional intent for the casinos here. The source site claims to be an "independent" platform (and I am selling a bridge in Alaska for a very cheap one-time price), but their whole editing pattern disproves this assertion. GermanJoe (talk) 09:11, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
- @GermanJoe: This is similar to the old defense "you blacklisted this perfectly acceptable site, so what if someone from CNN comes and spam Wikipedia" .. anyway, I think that XLinkBot is the best .. a quick glance does seem to show quite some appropriate use. --Dirk Beetstra T C 11:59, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
- Agree, thank you for the advice. Please add the domain to XLinkBot - I have removed almost all 216.* additions (clear PR jobs) and will look over a few older good-faith usages later. GermanJoe (talk) 15:16, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
- @GermanJoe: This is similar to the old defense "you blacklisted this perfectly acceptable site, so what if someone from CNN comes and spam Wikipedia" .. anyway, I think that XLinkBot is the best .. a quick glance does seem to show quite some appropriate use. --Dirk Beetstra T C 11:59, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you for having a deeper look into this, I'll cleanup some of the more blatant spam in the meantime (primarily coming from the 216.* IPs). Aside from the link spam, there is also an implicit promotional intent for the casinos here. The source site claims to be an "independent" platform (and I am selling a bridge in Alaska for a very cheap one-time price), but their whole editing pattern disproves this assertion. GermanJoe (talk) 09:11, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
Please leave me alone
Hi. Your last comment to me was rather polite on its face, and I appreciate that. However I consider your recent comments to be borderline harassment, considering that I already said I was feeling attacked and asked you to stop. I started a couple of good faith discussions about our copyright rules, but you did not take them that way and have proceeded to bludgeon me with your understanding of policy along with a heavy dose of self-righteousness and veiled threats. It's gone way past the point of contributing to the project, and it's distracting me from my more productive editing.
While I cannot force you to stop commenting in the WP:EL thread or any other, I can repeat my request that you stop directing your comments my way, and I now demand that you stop pinging me and do not touch my user talk (except for mandatory notices of course) for 30 days. And in case there's any confusion, during this period if you see an invitation to ping me, that invitation is not directed at you. After 30 days these prohibitions will automatically expire. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 16:29, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
- Without ping, you have consistently accused me, and others, of not knowing copyright or where we are, by policy are and are not allowed to link to copyright violations. You have consistently stated, without evidence, that those policies and guidelines are not having community consensus and have consistently ignored the arguments. The threat was not veiled, I will report you to AN/I/AIV if you are carelessly linking to material, especially if it is outside of anything that can be deemed fair use. —Dirk Beetstra T C 17:51, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
- And I expect you to read what people say, because those repeated questions start to be bordering on WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT. —-Dirk Beetstra T C 17:57, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
Nomination of Kajiya Productions for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Kajiya Productions is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kajiya Productions until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Bbarmadillo (talk) 18:26, 18 March 2018 (UTC)
- @Bbarmadillo: Thanks for the notice. I did not have time to collect the data and references, I have added some now. I noticed the company mentioned in Wikipedia throughout on many games' pages (even though I am not a big game player, some of the names of the games are known to me), and found it worth to have an article if that is the case. --Dirk Beetstra T C 06:38, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
- Beetstra please avoid self-referencing (company website and company sponsored materials). -- Bbarmadillo (talk) 20:16, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
- @Bbarmadillo: I guess you have then a lot of cleanup to do related to this article, all the mentions in Wikipedia. —Dirk Beetstra T C 03:23, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
- Beetstra please avoid self-referencing (company website and company sponsored materials). -- Bbarmadillo (talk) 20:16, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
12 years of editing
- Thanks! —Dirk Beetstra T C 03:23, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
Poking for dummies
Hello Beetstra, I am still a bit unsure about 1-2 aspects of COI poking. When a poke report is done, should reporting editors remove their own entries from the poke request page afterwards or would you prefer to clean them up yourself (possibly after having a final look on such cases)? Just checking, either way would be fine for me of course. GermanJoe (talk) 15:45, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
- @GermanJoe: no rules, I provide it as a service, I am generally not checking. —Dirk Beetstra T C 02:43, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
- OK, thanks for the info. I'll remove my finished entries then to keep the list short, no problem. GermanJoe (talk) 03:10, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
- @GermanJoe: for anything that is suspicious it is better to have a permanent record on WT:WPSPAM, even if there is nothing actionable now. —Dirk Beetstra T C 03:33, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
- OK, will keep that in mind for the future. GermanJoe (talk) 12:55, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
- @GermanJoe: for anything that is suspicious it is better to have a permanent record on WT:WPSPAM, even if there is nothing actionable now. —Dirk Beetstra T C 03:33, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
- OK, thanks for the info. I'll remove my finished entries then to keep the list short, no problem. GermanJoe (talk) 03:10, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
Hello sir
vidyasagar.guru has been black listed again.... please help me understand ..what wrong I did....and what can be done to make it whitelist again
Regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saurabhtholia (talk • contribs) 11:52, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
- No, it is not, you obviously can link to it in this discussion which means that it is whitelisted. --Dirk Beetstra T C 14:28, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
Deleted article on Miller Elwin
Hi Beetstra, I wanted to start a new article on Miller Elwin, a beach volleyball player from Vanuatu who is the playing partner of the captain of their national team, but WP came up with a warning that a page by this name had been deleted by you in November last year. Can you give me any background on the deletion discussion? I think she is notable enough to have an article on WP. Thanks very much. MurielMary (talk) 10:17, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @MurielMary: The article was a nearly literal translation from the German article (I would almost say machine translated), and created by a sockpuppet (and since said sockpuppet is using their articles as a trophy I delete all per WP:DENY). Seems indeed notable enough, though maybe thin. It could probably use more references than the one article in de.wiki. --Dirk Beetstra T C 10:25, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- I see, thanks for that explanation. I'll do a bit more research and may write a new article on her. I'll let you know if I do. Thanks! MurielMary (talk) 10:44, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @MurielMary: I would be a bad judge, content wise. I plainly deleted it per blocking policy. I'll probably see it popping up in my edit history, but thanks for the heads up. --Dirk Beetstra T C 10:50, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- I see, thanks for that explanation. I'll do a bit more research and may write a new article on her. I'll let you know if I do. Thanks! MurielMary (talk) 10:44, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
You've lost me!
You removed a link erroneously that I added. This was a link to a valid document which supported and expanded the article to which it was added. You gave no explanation why you removed it, and none of the links explained why it was not a valid link. I therefore ask you to either explain yourself, or re-add said link...otherwise I will. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Geraldholdsworth (talk • contribs) 19:40, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
- @Geraldholdsworth:, see WP:EL, WP:COI, and WP:NOT (and possibly m:Terms of use). These links do not belong, we are writing an encyclopedia, not a linkfarm. --Dirk Beetstra T C 19:54, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker) More succinctly: don't add links to your own website. SmartSE (talk) 20:10, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
So, you've removed a link to a relevant document just because it is on my page, despite there being other links which are also on other people's pages. This is a flimsy excuse and, as such, the links will be restored. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Geraldholdsworth (talk • contribs) 07:33, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- @Geraldholdsworth: - no, I removed it for the reasons stated in my previous reply, which include indeed that the document is on your own domain. --Dirk Beetstra T C 10:41, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- And reinsertion will be met with a more strong warning and may be followed by stronger measures. --Dirk Beetstra T C 10:42, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
NONE of those references you pointed to are relevant. Yes it is my own domain, but the document is written as a reference which is relevant to the subject matter in hand. There is no conflict of interest, and it is not about me or my family. There is no copyright violation as I wrote the document. I am not gaining any advantage over this link, but there are people who would be reading the article that would gain an advantage. Mine was not the only link that is linked to a personal web page, so I see this as you abusing what power you believe you have and targeting me for some bizarre reason. I say again, there is nothing you have said that gives a good enough reason for this document not to be linked to. Your only, flimsy, excuse is that it is on my domain. If it were on a different domain, you would probably take a different stance - and that is totally wrong. IT WILL BE RE-ADDED IN DUE COURSE, and you will be reported for harassment, and stretching the rules to fit your own devious ends. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Geraldholdsworth (talk • contribs) 19:00, 27 March 2018 (UTC) OK - I do believe we have reached a point of non-agreement here, and I've started to get a bit hot under the collar - for which I apologise. Therefore, can you please look at the document, the information contained within, and the pages where the link was added and tell me, honestly and without quoting any more documents/references, and ignoring the fact that I wrote the document and is hosted on my domain, why it does not fit into the said pages? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Geraldholdsworth (talk • contribs) 20:18, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- @Geraldholdsworth: We are not writing a linkfarm here, and you are to show that the external links add to the page. As it is self-written material on your site, you do have a conflict of interest here, and as the material is not peer reviewed (nor referenced), how are we to know it is a reliable source, and if you are an expert, then you could be furthering your own position with this document, in violation of our terms of use.
- Now, looking at geraldholdsworth.co.uk/DiscImage/DiscImage.pdf, that is a simplified explanation of disc images. It is utterly void of references (it could be complete synthesis), and it is all information that is incorporated in Wikipedia. You linked it as an external link on Professional File System. In you document, PFS has only a fleeting mention, it does not explain anything beyond what is in Wikipedia, it is irrelevant to the subject of the page in that respect, and therefore it fails our inclusion standards.
- Now, you got a very subtle warning, and a gentle welceome to point you to our policies and guidelines. You here got from me already an initial explanation which you tried to dodge, but the message is simply: do not add your own material on Wikipedia, discuss it on the talkpages and let others add it for you - you are not neutral in your edits for this material.
- As we are now discussing this, regard this as a high-level final warning. Wikipedia is not a soapbox. --Dirk Beetstra T C 23:31, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
My guide is not a simplified explanation - it is a detailed look at how to interpret them. It is not utterly void of references - you obviously failed to read the Introduction which explains where I got my information, initially, and that I have been writing the guide alongside writing the code to interpret disc images (also available on my site, but obviously not linked). Yes, PFS only has a fleeting mention - but I did not add it to any PFS pages. If I did, it was by mistake - I added it to the AmigaDOS page, which it is more relevant. Once I work out the PFS format (and find some suitable images to dissect), then there will be enough information that I can add it to this page. No, I am not an expert, and I do not have any conflict of interest here. I am merely a software engineer with an interest in retro computers. It has been peer-reviewed by folk on a retro-computing forum (referenced in my document), and also by the Managing Director of a well known and very successful software house of the Eighties and Nineties (and is still producing software for Windows, iOS and Android). A "high-level final warning" - who are you? You act like someone important, but I don't know you from Adam and you could be anyone. Where are your references? I am here to try and make Wikipedia better, and it seems you are here to try and stop people from making Wikipedia better. I give up - people who truly want to find out this information can easily get it from other sources (like my website, for a start), and will consider Wikipedia information to be unreliable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Geraldholdsworth (talk • contribs) 13:26, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Geraldholdsworth: To quote you:
but I did not add it to any PFS pages
, see diff - Point is, you could have written in Wikipedia, instead of linking to some external document, making Wikipedia more reliable. --Dirk Beetstra T C 13:39, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
LTA active
Please check Special:Contributions/203.17.70.53 which should be blocked for a few hours to make WP:UNID put it away for today. I would say more but DENY really is needed. Johnuniq (talk) 07:12, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Johnuniq: Blocked for a couple of hours. Would have been quicker at AIV, probably. Can you take care of the rest?
- Would it help to blacklist some stuff here? Or an edit filter. That should slow them down at least. --Dirk Beetstra T C 07:28, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks. I will monitor. Your bot already reported them. An edit filter would be tricky, but XLinkBot's edit summary suggests it has code that detects one part of the strategy. I could remind you of more details if wanted, offline. Johnuniq (talk) 07:33, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Sorry to bomb your talk and I'm not asking for any action. I just want to record that Special:Contributions/125.7.7.210 took up the cause. Johnuniq (talk) 07:45, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
Rachmat10
Vandal:Secehl MNC Channel gurpu dtsa, ghats Google ! --Ra-10 (talk) 06:56, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Rachmat10: NO. you can NOT copy text wholesale from other wikis without translating them and certainly not without attributing the original. You are violating copyrights. Stop, you have to comply with these policies. —Dirk Beetstra T C 07:02, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
- FYI, {{db-a2}} is a more appropriate criterion to speedy delete untranslated pages copied from other wikis. --HyperGaruda (talk) 07:07, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
- I know .. but I did not know which language, and Twinkle did not allow me. —Dirk Beetstra T C 07:11, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
- FYI, {{db-a2}} is a more appropriate criterion to speedy delete untranslated pages copied from other wikis. --HyperGaruda (talk) 07:07, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
www.crarg.org
Greetings,
I have been asked by the manager of the www.crarg.org website to add a link to that website to two wikipedia pages that describe the CRARG organization, but I am unable to do so because of blacklisting of crarg.org. Can you help? Is there anything that can be done to remove the blacklisting?Thanks. Hdkhdk (talk) 02:13, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Hdhhdk: please read m:Term of use, WP:COI and WP:SPAM. I guess you then understand why it is, and how it got blacklisted. —Dirk Beetstra T C 03:20, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
bajajfinserv.in - poke request not executed
Hello Beetstra, I have added an entry for "bajajfinserv.in" 2 days ago but it hasn't been executed yet. Could you have a look please, when you got some time? I don't think it's the size limit, as this one should have relatively few hits (just wanted to check for eventual older incidents). Thank you in advance. GermanJoe (talk) 10:52, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
- @GermanJoe: seems to have failed indeed, I poked it again. There are some reasons why reports don't get saved, one of them being that one of the links inside links is blacklisted, or because of the link being hard-whitelisted (which I can't check here). The bot also sometimes misses the additions in the feed, if it didn't save try again after a couple of hours, if it then doesn't save, it is likely one of the other problems. --Dirk Beetstra T C 11:02, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
Spam list Exclusion
Hello Dirk, My domain (infoversant.com) was recently added to the spam list. I am a blogger and receive regular updates from media stations about TV shows and movie updates, releases, and other news from US, UK, and India. Can you explain why when a blog like Deadline or variety, that gets the same information from the same source is not blacklisted and a link to mine is considered spam? I understand that my blog's standing is not at par with these sources, but the actual source of information is still the same. I would like to request you to reconsider and help me remove the domain form the blacklist. Thanks.117.195.27.177 (talk) 13:29, 23 April 2018 (UTC)PB
- @117.195.27.177: - see MediaWiki_talk:Spam-blacklist/archives/February_2018#movierecipe.infoversant.com - this was spammed to Wikipedia, what probably/likely did not happen to any of the other sites that you are talking about. For the rest, see WP:COI and m:Terms of use. --Dirk Beetstra T C 13:42, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
bmihealthcare - domain whitelist?
Admittedly I do not understand all technical details of this list, but did you mean to whitelist the entire domain with "\bbmihealthcare\.co\.uk\b" instead of the hospital-specific subpage? Just checking in case this was a misclick - sorry for spamming you :). GermanJoe (talk) 07:26, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
- @GermanJoe: Thanks for spotting that, my mistake. Wrong template .. --Dirk Beetstra T C 07:40, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
WikiProject Pharmacology User Activity Update
Hi there! I've noticed that you've been extremely active elsewhere on Wikipedia, but you haven't been active on WikiProject Pharmacology. Per our policies, your status has been moved from Active to Inactive, which you can view here. Don't be discouraged, though--we'd love to see you come back and contribute to the project! Let me know if you need any help! ―Biochemistry🙴❤ 04:27, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
- @Biochemistry&Love: What an utterly useless and stupid policy. Unnecessarily bureaucratic and closed minded. A total detriment to collaborative editing and demeaning. Sorry. —Dirk Beetstra T C 00:55, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
- I have removed myself. Don’t want to be part of such classification. —Dirk Beetstra T C 00:59, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
- No-no, no need to apologize! I'm very sorry that my message offended you! It's merely to rekindle interest in the project by reminding users that it exists. I sincerely apologize if the activity status update hurt your feelings; it was not my intention to demean you. ―Biochemistry🙴❤ 01:10, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Biochemistry&Love: people on said list know it exists, they put themselves there, so no need to remind. There is also no need to push editors to edit pages in the scope of the project. If that was a list of editors who did not edit at all for years then it might be suitable, but to remove editors because they did not edit for a month in this area is .. discouraging. I see now that this was started years ago, and has been totally unmaintained. And I am yet to see a decent discussion that lifts this to the level of ‘policy’. To me it looks like a very bad idea in the first place, and even worse to continue it. But if that is what the project wants ... —Dirk Beetstra T C 04:06, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Beetstra: I think you raise a point that's worth discussing! I'll start a discussion at the talk page, and I hope you'll participate by lending your opinion!―Biochemistry🙴❤ 03:07, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
- Please see the following discussion here. ―Biochemistry🙴❤ 03:22, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
- @Beetstra: I think you raise a point that's worth discussing! I'll start a discussion at the talk page, and I hope you'll participate by lending your opinion!―Biochemistry🙴❤ 03:07, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
- @Biochemistry&Love: people on said list know it exists, they put themselves there, so no need to remind. There is also no need to push editors to edit pages in the scope of the project. If that was a list of editors who did not edit at all for years then it might be suitable, but to remove editors because they did not edit for a month in this area is .. discouraging. I see now that this was started years ago, and has been totally unmaintained. And I am yet to see a decent discussion that lifts this to the level of ‘policy’. To me it looks like a very bad idea in the first place, and even worse to continue it. But if that is what the project wants ... —Dirk Beetstra T C 04:06, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
- No-no, no need to apologize! I'm very sorry that my message offended you! It's merely to rekindle interest in the project by reminding users that it exists. I sincerely apologize if the activity status update hurt your feelings; it was not my intention to demean you. ―Biochemistry🙴❤ 01:10, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
Thank you for your suggestion
I have created this article now, Novotech (Australia) Pty Limited, founded in 1995, a mid-size Contract Research Organization, I am creating this for encyclopedia purpose. You please check with your logic, rather than other people's input, if there is any promotional content let me know. Without reading the article how can you judge my content. You first read and tell me if there is anything POV or Biased.Ssgajimouli (talk) 14:22, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
Archived source url for File:Scihub raven.png
Hi Beetstra. Since you were part of the discussion at MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist/archives/July 2016#Sci-Hub, I am wondering if there's a way to remove the archived version of the source url provided for File:Scihub raven.png from the blacklist. Would doing such a thing for just that particular page be acceptable? -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:18, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
- @Marchjuly: if it is for a file, I would unlink
(question, is that a proper source ... it is a copy/snapshot of a possible/likely copyvio, and there is by definition n original ...)(strikeout). For the rest Defer to Whitelist. —Dirk Beetstra T C 04:09, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
UnblockBot
Hi Dirk. Just wanted to drop a note letting you know that UnblockBot for #wikipedia-en-unblock has been down for about a day now. TonyBallioni (talk) 23:39, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
- Appears to be up now. TonyBallioni (talk) 11:18, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
- @TonyBallioni: Sorry, forgot to say here - I restarted it. --Dirk Beetstra T C 12:41, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
External links
Hi you removed an IG link while retaining a Twitter link, citing a myriad of policy sources. Except none of which backed up the removal.
WP:EL#EL11 and WP:EL#EL13 are prefixed by the opening line "Except for a link to an official page of the article's subject, one should generally avoid providing external links to:..."
The twitter link is indeed official. The points you cited refer to unofficial sites; refer back to the first line that all the succeeding points are predicated on.
WP:ELMINOFFICIAL notes:
Normally, only one official link is included. If the subject of the article has more than one official website, then more than one link may be appropriate, under a very few limited circumstances.... More than one official link should be provided only when the additional links provide the reader with significant unique content and are not prominently linked from other official websites. For example, if the main page of the official website for an author contains a link to the author's blog and Twitter feed, then it is not appropriate to provide links to all three. Instead, provide only the main page of the official website in this situation.
The subject does not have an official website that include links to both his twitter and IG. Instead, the twitter and IG function separately. I see no reason why one or the other need be removed. None of the sources cite that as a rule. DA1 (talk) 07:11, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- @DA1: The subject has no official website (as in a .com or similar), but may have several social networking accounts, which are all his official websites. That an official website does not exist, or an official website does not list any of those social networking accounts is not a reason to include (all) of them. They are still 'his official websites', and hence we list 'only one' except under a few limited circumstances. That has been interpreted very, very strictly. Until now I am only aware of 3-4 cases where subjects have an official website (a .com) and that we also list a twitter (even though some of the official websites list the twitter already). That is, it is only done of the notability of the subject is, to a very large extent, because of the twitter, even if they have a primary official website. We are not writing a linkfarm to supply you with the whole list of websites associated with the subject, and believe me, twitters, instagrams, facebooks and further do NOT supply significant encyclopedic information and are therefore already generally excluded. As an example, when arguing about the inclusion of Britney Spears' twitter, quite some time ago, this argument was brought up. And when I checked, the top post was along the lines of 'I am having cake with my father' - nothing encyclopedic here (and if it is, then it should be in the article and this tweet would be the primary reference to that fact).
- Note that my choice of social network is often rather random, I choose one. It may be that a subject uses their IG significantly more than their Twitter, in which case inclusion of IG and removal of the twitter is warranted. --Dirk Beetstra T C 08:38, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- Maybe we should word it somewhat like “only include one webite that is controlled by the subject, whether the official website, blog, or social network site.” —Dirk Beetstra T C 16:59, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- Britney Spears might have a Twitter which does not include encyclopedic information, as you said. Then again, her IG might not either. Why have either one on there anymore, why not just remove both? In her case, I presume she has an official website. So it doesn't matter. But when it comes to other subjects who don't have a dedicated website, why have either on if the issue is trivial or unencyclopedic information?
- I also don't see how 2 webpages make a Link farm. There doesn't seem to be any precise definition, but I presume its intended to mean "many". But if an Externals section only contains 3 or less links, I don't see how that can count as a Link farm. There are articles where "encyclopedic" links make up between half-dozen and near-dozen links in Externals. If that's not a linkfarm, then how can an article with 2 "unencylopedic" links be so? DA1 (talk) 04:53, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
- @DA1: The point is, that it has until now, in many discussions, been hardly possible to defend that social networking sites contain encyclopedic information barring very few exceptions. That is what we describe in our external links guide - 'only one', avoid social networking sites. We are not here to provide a list (even two) social networking sites. If there is a need for a second site, then you will have a case (and a very strong one at that) on the talkpage or on WP:ELN. That case will have be of a level of reasoning as for the Twitter for Donald Trump - and even there people argue that it is not necessary.
- Note, that there is sometimes reason to have 12 links, some articles have no links at all. Linkfarming is not about counting, it is about having the minimum number of links. It is however not an argument (see WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS, maybe those 12 should be cut down as well. --Dirk Beetstra T C 05:09, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
- Which is why it would be a lot more logically consistent, if the rule just stated no social networking pages... if the the issue is no "unencylopedic" pages. How is it consistent to have one but not a second? Twitter and IG serve two different purposes, one primarily conveys text based messages and the other visual. As for the case for why they do contain content of encyclopedic value (both): If we see WP:SELFPUB, we see that a person's social media content counts as a primary source for information about themselves. In other words, a person could announce an album or tour or make any public statement of encyclopedic value, either on Twitter or on IG, that we can use as a citation. If that's the case here, I don't see how we can just minimize it to either one on Externals on the other hand, when we attribute a level of value to it already. There certainly is content of encyclopedic value in these platforms in-between the trivial, just as any person covered by Wikipedia whose life in general maybe trivial but certain portions may be encyclopedic. DA1 (talk) 06:23, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
- This whole process could be simpler and less confusing, if we (1) Outright refrained from all unencyclopedic official webpages, or (2) Just sat down and took a step back and admit both Twitter and IG are different mediums but both relevant in conveying information about a subject. IG, in many cases literally gives a glimpse into a subject's personal or professional life, the same can be said for Twitter in some cases. And inturn both platforms can be of encyclopedic value when its an entertainer or business or relevant public figure. DA1 (talk) 06:23, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
- @DA1: I don't see how this is confusing. Most official sites fail our inclusion standards (even the .coms, they are commercial in nature, etc. etc.). We allow only one to show what the subject has to say about themselves. If you want a change, please go to WT:EL or WP:ELN (but I advice you to read through the archives .. this has been discussed over and over, and 'only one with very few exceptions' means almost: 'only one'. --Dirk Beetstra T C 06:31, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
- But have they brought up the WP:SELFPUB aspect? No point in me pointing that out again if it has already. DA1 (talk) 06:37, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
- What does self-pub have to do with this? This is about external links, not references. --Dirk Beetstra T C 06:39, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
- As a possible reasoning for including both links. As I point out above, either could contain content of encyclopedic value. And if it isn't, I don't see why 'one' should even be included—just abstain from allowing either. This is where it seems logically inconsistent. DA1 (talk) 07:41, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
- I am referring to where you tell me to talk about it on EL or ELN. I just wanted to know if that aspect was even brought up. DA1 (talk) 07:44, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
- 'either could contain content of encyclopedic value' .. then you can make a case for that. The reason why we include 'only one' is to have one site to show what the subject is telling about themselves. I am quite sure that has been discussed, but feel free to further expand on it. --Dirk Beetstra T C 07:57, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
- What does self-pub have to do with this? This is about external links, not references. --Dirk Beetstra T C 06:39, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
- But have they brought up the WP:SELFPUB aspect? No point in me pointing that out again if it has already. DA1 (talk) 06:37, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
- @DA1: I don't see how this is confusing. Most official sites fail our inclusion standards (even the .coms, they are commercial in nature, etc. etc.). We allow only one to show what the subject has to say about themselves. If you want a change, please go to WT:EL or WP:ELN (but I advice you to read through the archives .. this has been discussed over and over, and 'only one with very few exceptions' means almost: 'only one'. --Dirk Beetstra T C 06:31, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
Chislic
A bot is reverting my edits to better reflect the history, and current culture of Chislic in the state of South Dakota — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.77.246.170 (talk) 02:33, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
- If you point me to the reverts, I can judge. The edits were not on this IP. —Dirk Beetstra T C 03:47, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
Sayyeshaa
This is to request you to delete a redirect called "Sayyeshaa" so that I can move the page called "Sayyeshaa Saigal" to that name. Nobody is responding to my db-move request. I asked you since you recently edited "Sayyeshaa Saigal". Harsh Rathod Poke me! 05:01, 26 May 2018 (UTC) I think I said I will rename that article. I just asked to delete the redirect page. Perfect narcissism. Harsh Rathod Poke me! 12:04, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
- @Harshrathod50: I can move it over a redirect, in the process deleting the page. That makes the whole action less ambiguous. End result is the same. --Dirk Beetstra T C 14:39, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
But your edit summary tells otherwise. Harsh Rathod Poke me! 17:49, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
Validation of chemical data
Hello. I'm wondering if the validation of chemical data (CAS numbers, etc.) has been abandoned. I'd love to help fix the myriad red X's I still see. Kjpmi (talk) 14:28, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
- @Kjpmi: I am awaiting the outcome of the infobox <-> WikiData RfC, and then, depending on the outcome, my idea is to implement a more permanent solution. —Dirk Beetstra T C 15:22, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
I'd love to help. Please keep me in mind. Kjpmi (talk) 15:44, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
- I saw you posted there, I guess there is where I will lay out my plans. —Dirk Beetstra T C 16:21, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
I misclicked in COIBot linkreports
Hi Beetstra. I'm not sure how I did that[1], but I wanted to let you know that I'm aware I did it and am trying to rectify it. --Ronz (talk) 16:01, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
- I think I better wait for you to make sure it's handled properly. I'm not clear what I should do. --Ronz (talk) 16:05, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
- @Ronz: SANCTIONS ... blacklist ... COIBot’s wall of shame ... AN/I ... Topic ban ... ArbCom ... involuntary Run for Adminship (the latter is likely the worst thing that could happen to you).
- @Ronz: and I should sign my post. Karma is a bitch. —Dirk Beetstra T C 17:53, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
- LOL. I just didn't want to further mess up the report, as there's no telling how it is being used by others. --Ronz (talk) 19:24, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
- @Ronz: It is too much work, and it edit conflicts. You could try to revert to before your edit, then let the bot go while you collect all that was added after your editand then paste it in. The bot truncates the list by itself so in a couple of hours all is lost. Just leave it and start your RfA (you should). —Dirk Beetstra T C 03:07, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
- That clears things up a bit. When I tried to fold back in what I removed, I was surprised by the truncations without archiving. I've not looked at what the report is being used for. Is it just a short log of the bot's actions, or something more?
- (Thanks for the RfA encouragement). --Ronz (talk) 03:35, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
- @Ronz: It is too much work, and it edit conflicts. You could try to revert to before your edit, then let the bot go while you collect all that was added after your editand then paste it in. The bot truncates the list by itself so in a couple of hours all is lost. Just leave it and start your RfA (you should). —Dirk Beetstra T C 03:07, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
- Just a list of recent reports it saved. One page to watch and you see what COIBot/LiWa3 worry about. If there is something obvious there you can take quick action (if COIBot saves a local report for clear spam, and you have my admin script, you hit add on the discussion and it blacklists or revertlists, and the abuse stops). —Dirk Beetstra T C 03:42, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
- LOL. I just didn't want to further mess up the report, as there's no telling how it is being used by others. --Ronz (talk) 19:24, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
COIBot & filters
COIBot got caught in AIV filters and was reported to AIV. You may want to check recent Bot postings. -- Alexf(talk) 10:36, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
- @Alexf: Bad filter if it does not filter out editors that cannot possibly be the vandal. Unnecessary testing that only takes up processing time. Please filter out all bots, admins, ... --Dirk Beetstra T C 11:30, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
- I see it now filters out editors that are never supposed to hit the filter (vague remark with WP:BEANS in mind). --Dirk Beetstra T C 11:32, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
Botched ping
You can't fix notifications with an edit so this won't work. A notification requires a clearly new comment with a new (not edited) signature. It's simplest to add a new comment with the ping. Another approach would be to delete the previous comment and save the page. Then edit to add a new comment with the fixed ping. Johnuniq (talk) 04:59, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
- @Johnuniq: but it linked to the userpage with a fresh sig. Even that does not work? Crap. —Dirk Beetstra T C 05:40, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
- It would be good to have a record of who got pinged - ping-log? —Dirk Beetstra T C 05:41, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
- I believe there is no ping log but there are some new options under preferences for Notifications, for example, "Failed mention" and "Successful mention". I have the former enabled but it sends me a notification if I link to an IP user page (because an IP cannot be pinged). I don't know what else it does. I think the latter would get tiring very quickly but you could try it for experimenting. Johnuniq (talk) 05:50, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
- Turned them on .. lets see.
- Log may be interesting, I have seen ping abuse (and people asking not to be pinged by s.o.) and that could provide evidence. —Dirk Beetstra T C 05:56, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
- I believe there is no ping log but there are some new options under preferences for Notifications, for example, "Failed mention" and "Successful mention". I have the former enabled but it sends me a notification if I link to an IP user page (because an IP cannot be pinged). I don't know what else it does. I think the latter would get tiring very quickly but you could try it for experimenting. Johnuniq (talk) 05:50, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
Happy Adminship
Secretprojectrevolution
Hi Beestra. Would you mind taking a look at the external links of secretprojectrevolution? I came across this at WP:THQ#Who is vandalizing Secretprojectrevolution, if anyone? I stand accused. What makes which edits vandalism? and it appears that the IP asking for help wants to add a link to a movie torrent to the article. It's not a link to a website hosting the torrent per se, but an actual torrent link which will likely start downloading the movie when clicked on by someone with who has a bit torrent client installed. I don't think that is probably something allowed per WP:ELNO, but not sure. The link has been repeatedly removed, but there was really no explanation given as to why. So, I thought that someone such as yourself who does lots of work with external links might be able to explain to the IP that this kind of link is not allowed. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:53, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
- @Marchjuly: Per the WP:EL section on rich media, I am tempted to say that the link should be https://now.bt.co/bundles/5bc1c5f93bd772f87fdc4f3f37e5caa032e3bd4df392238cfb8b5f07951e5039 or http://bundles.bittorrent.com/madonna-revolution/ .. a link to a html/text rendered page useful for ALL users and checkable for all users. Now the problem becomes whether we need to include both the youtube and the torrent, both qualify as official websites and we normally link to only one (but this qualifies as an exception I think). Note, the magnet link is imho too risky, it might go anywhere (I don’t know how hackable this stuff is). —Dirk Beetstra T C 08:09, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
- That's fine and thanks for clarifying. I was mainly concerned about the magnet link. -- Marchjuly (talk) 08:12, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
- @Marchjuly: I see on the pages about this subject that you have to register to download. This direct magnet suggests that it is pre-registered. I also don’t know whether magnet links can contain trackers or referral material ... to me, we could write a filter to detect addition of these links as they should be avoided. —Dirk Beetstra T C 08:48, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
- I appreciate you taking the time to look into this. I really get annoyed when I click on links found on any webpage which automatically start to download a file or try to open some kind of software, so I don't think Wikipedia should really be place for such links. The link can go to a website, and the editor can then decide to download content if they want. WP:EASTER-types of external links shouldn't be allowed to be added to Wikipedia articles in my opinion, but if they are it should be stated that clicking on the link will cause a file to be downloaded or software to run. -- Marchjuly (talk) 03:05, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
- @Marchjuly: that is what WP:RICHMEDIA basically advocates. I’ll whatchlist the article. —Dirk Beetstra T C 03:44, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
- I appreciate you taking the time to look into this. I really get annoyed when I click on links found on any webpage which automatically start to download a file or try to open some kind of software, so I don't think Wikipedia should really be place for such links. The link can go to a website, and the editor can then decide to download content if they want. WP:EASTER-types of external links shouldn't be allowed to be added to Wikipedia articles in my opinion, but if they are it should be stated that clicking on the link will cause a file to be downloaded or software to run. -- Marchjuly (talk) 03:05, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
- @Marchjuly: I see on the pages about this subject that you have to register to download. This direct magnet suggests that it is pre-registered. I also don’t know whether magnet links can contain trackers or referral material ... to me, we could write a filter to detect addition of these links as they should be avoided. —Dirk Beetstra T C 08:48, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
- That's fine and thanks for clarifying. I was mainly concerned about the magnet link. -- Marchjuly (talk) 08:12, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
EL for Tesla Boy
Hi Beetstra. Would you mind taking a look at Tesla Boy#External links? There seems to be lots of extraneous external links to articles and interviews which might be better off being moved to the talk page for record-keeping purposes. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:27, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
- @Marchjuly: Wholesale moved to talk - suitable as references, but not like this. --Dirk Beetstra T C 09:39, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you for checking. — Marchjuly (talk) 11:36, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
Liberal National Party
Please remove autoconfirmed from this article, as it is no longer up to date on issues mentioned. Today’s LNP is very different from 2011. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.68.248.27 (talk) 14:11, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
- Create an account and show that you need access. Then we can discuss. This spamming of you is only counterproductive. —Dirk Beetstra T C 13:31, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
URL shortener?
Hello Beetstra, I vaguely remember you mentioned something about URL shorteners being blacklisted. Does this affect all URL shorteners popping up at Wikipedia in general or only the most common ones? A new one (qscv.pe.hu) was just used to circumvent the blacklist of peoplesbiography.in (but it likely is a one-time incident for now). Either way, just double-checking as I haven't dealt with URL shorteners in the past. GermanJoe (talk) 10:49, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
- @GermanJoe: ALL shorteners go on meta, even pre-emptively (if I see them on twitter, I blacklist on Wikipedia). As this example shows, they WILL be abused at some point. People go at length to spam, I have seen spammers start with shorteners so their domain does not get blacklisted. There is absolutely NO reason to use a shortener ever. —Dirk Beetstra T C 13:27, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
- OK, thanks for the advice. I'll file a request at meta then. GermanJoe (talk) 15:57, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
- (talk page gnome) Another problem with them, other than easily evading scrutiny, is that they can be used to track campaigns and visitors. I'm glad to know they're treated especially, thanks for that. —PaleoNeonate – 16:03, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
- @GermanJoe and PaleoNeonate: one can enchain a number of them, almost losing track, and direct them through referral sites, google result links, etc. —Dirk Beetstra T C 19:26, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
- Indeed, they could suddenly point anywhere else including ads and malware... —PaleoNeonate – 19:31, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
- @GermanJoe and PaleoNeonate: one can enchain a number of them, almost losing track, and direct them through referral sites, google result links, etc. —Dirk Beetstra T C 19:26, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
Telegram
Message added 17:54, 3 July 2018 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template. at any time by removing the
- TNT 💖 17:54, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
- Hey Beetstra - did you get this email? - TNT 💖 13:09, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
- @There'sNoTime: Yes, got it. I’ll get to it when I am back home and have direct access to the db. I’ll give you read access. —13:29, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
- Awesome - not sure why that ping didn't work, but thank you :) - TNT 💖 22:24, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
Removing social network links outright
Hi Beetstra, I know you've been ardent in your policing of social media links insisting that WP policy allows no more than one. However, I've now come across users who are going around deleting everything (to 0 links) citing WP:ELNO. Any thoughts about this? Because it feels like a slippery slope. DA1 (talk) 15:03, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
Pinging Onel5969 so we can get this settled reasonably. DA1 (talk) 15:06, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
- Hi DA1 - and thanks for the ping. My apologies to Beetstra, not sure if this is where the discussion should take place. Probably should take place on the talk page of wp:elno. I've heard about the single social media site being allowed, if there is no official website, but I can't actually find it in the guidelines. Could you please point to it? Currently, as per wp:elno, social networking sites should be avoided. Onel5969 TT me 15:15, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
- @DA1 and Onel5969: I leave one official website of the subject per WP:ELMINOFFICIAL. I do however notice that if that is a social networking site, it sometimes boils down to nothing useful if the person is not active on anything (once on the discussion about the Twitter of Britney Spears, the top tweets were about her having cake with her father ... so much for ‘show what a subject says about themselves). We can have this discussion again (I’ve been dragged up to AN/I for this, where was suggested that I should get a barnstar for removing all that rubbish), but it is a bit perennial. I can see arguments for outright planking all of them.
- I would therefore suggest to select one (with high preference for the ‘.com’ of the subject), with care that sometimes 2 are warranted (Donald Trump, has an official website with linked Twitter, but the subject has gained notability partially due to the twitter ...). But those exceptions are rare. —Dirk Beetstra T C 18:03, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
- Reping: @Onel5969:. —Dirk Beetstra T C 18:04, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
- Per existing policy we allow one link, as you also note. However, I would warn against removing it outright because not all subjects even have an official website. Then you're left with a situation where a reader can't see any of the subject's recent activities or endeavors. DA1 (talk) 18:07, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
- I've also responded to Onel5969 on his talk page, which you may also see if you have anything to add or subtract to that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Onel5969#External_links_deleted_or_allowed_/_WP:ELNO
- Personally, I am against the idea of removing socials outright, as I just explained above. I agree with the point in WP:ELOFFICIAL, "Official links (if any) are provided to give the reader the opportunity to see what the subject says about itself" — since Wikipedia relies on third party sources for notability, there deserves to be a method for readers to go direct to the source, including for information on the subject not covered by Wikipedia. DA1 (talk) 18:13, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
- @DA1: external links are for more info on a subject that is not suitable for inclusion. Some social networking feeds are utterly useless for that, subjects do not tell anything substantial. I hardly ever go further than removing all but one. Wikipedia is not the place to find all official links of a subject, that is for other websites. —Dirk Beetstra T C 18:19, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
- I think that point 2 in WP:ELOFFICIAL is of interest, the material on the left over official site should be about what the subject is notable for. Britney Spears is not notable for having cake with her father. That could be read as a reason for outright removal as many social networking are not used for the notability reasons of the subject - Donald Trump may be an exception there. —Dirk Beetstra T C 18:22, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
- The current policy states one social link per subject, correct? So lets not talk about including "all" official links. The reason why I had brought this discussion here, because both of you had–in separate edits–removed social links on the same article, from two to one to zero. I've conceded to your edit (per official guidelines) but when even the last one gets removed then it gets a bit problematic...especially when the subject doesn't even have an official website. I would also point out that even the official website might not include "anything substantial" in the case of many subjects, but WP policy allows it be included. DA1 (talk) 18:28, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
- Britney Spears isn't releasing new music, so her Twitter feed may be completely trivial but you can't use that as an example for every other musician, or actor or scientist. This should be on a case by case basis, otherwise there's no point in the rule even existing. DA1 (talk) 18:31, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
- The Britney Spears situation is not unique, it is often the case that the social networking is largely personal. And I am not alone in that type of critique.
- As I said, we should, quite generally speaking, reduce all to 1, not 0. But in the same way that there are exceptions for 2, there should be exceptions for 0, per WP:ELOFFICIAL’s ‘The linked content primarily covers the area for which the subject of the article is notable.’. —Dirk Beetstra T C 20:01, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
COIBot report incomplete?
Hello Beetstra, could you take a look at Wikipedia:WikiProject Spam/LinkReports/steemit.com please if you got some time? The domain has been added several dozen times, but the bot only lists 1 entry with a username COI suspicion. Is the "@" in the URLs possibly a problem? GermanJoe (talk) 12:37, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
- @GermanJoe: Could be. Something did not parse right there I think, I'll have a look at the system. I am afraid you will have to do manual hunting on this one ... --Dirk Beetstra T C 13:24, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
- No worries, I usually prefer the manual hunting approach anyway ;). Thanks for looking into this. GermanJoe (talk) 13:33, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
July 2018
Can you explain why you think my link is spam please. The website is not a personal site as Chrissymad keeps stating, but I own the company that owns it. Everyone knows there's no SEO benefit so you don't need to worry about me benefiting in some way. That statement has had the 'citation needed' since 2013. I'll suggest three things that you can do, and you can pick one perhaps. 1) Find a source that meets your interpretation of Wikipedia's guidelines, adding value to the article. 2) Remove that statement because there's no way of proving its validity. 3) Re-instate my citation because it helps readers know if that statement is true or not. You have to understand that I am only trying to help. You're the second Wikipedia user to threaten me with being blocked and all this other silly stuff over a link. This is not a friendly place it seems. I don't care about the other links (three of them I think) to be honest, 200 bhp is 200 bhp however many times you read it, but this statement requires a citation. I even put the citation proposal on the Talk page and there were no valid objections. Chrissymad's was invalid due the reason above. They could have said there's a conflict of interest, which would be valid, but they didn't. I even waited over a week after informing them that their objection was wrong, for them to give a valid reason before adding the citation. One last thing. I've just read at the top of this editing page that 'Encyclopedic content must be verifiable'. If the statement in question has been unverified for over 5 years, then I think you should remove it. It's surely a bigger violation than my link, and I'm disappointed that it has gone undetected for so long.DaveLikesCars (talk) 13:07, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- @DaveLikesCars: it is your personal website (see WP:COI), you keep addingit (see WP:SPAM), you re-add it while others have concerns and without consensus, and you use a website with as only editorial oversight yourself as a reference (see WP:Rs andWP:V). --Dirk Beetstra T C 16:39, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- @Beetstra: It isn't a personal website, but there a conflict of interest. The concern of the one user was invalid and I gave over a week for them to give me any other concerns. It's a very inactive Talk page (I had to generate it for my proposal and there was only one contribution from another user in 12 days), so obtaining a consensus either for or against the citation seemed to be impossible. I can also assure you that it is not only me contributing. Anyway, I understand now that due to my conflict of interest, regardless of its usefulness to the article, I can't add it. Perhaps you would consider adding it yourself for the benefit of the article.DaveLikesCars (talk) 16:59, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- @DaveLikesCars: the COI is a lesser concern than WP:RS and WP:V are. Not waiting for a third editor but assuming that while two editors disagree with you that consensus is on your side seems ... odd to me. Find consensus before readdingit, for now it seems against inclusion. --Dirk Beetstra T C 17:21, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- @Beetstra:I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that there were two editors that disagreed. I was only aware of Chrissymad's objections.DaveLikesCars (talk) 17:39, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- @DaveLikesCars: See diff. --Dirk Beetstra T C 17:58, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- @Beetstra:That wasn't an objection to the link, that was just saying that Chrissymad was correct to be concerned about the COI. They suggested I discuss it on the Talk page which I did. Anyway, I'm wasting your time at this point. The link was removed, and it's going to stay removed so any discussion about it won't make any difference. I appreciate your time and help.DaveLikesCars (talk) 18:05, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
A barnstar for you!
The Original Barnstar | |
Thanks for your guidance Beestra! On course to edit properly now! comedy.bookings (talk) 02:18, 26 July 2018 (UTC) |
- THANKS! --Dirk Beetstra T C 04:08, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
Internationalfooty
Why did you remove all the links relating to Australian Football? Internationalfooty (talk) 08:19, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
- @Internationalfooty: see our external links guideline and my message to you. --Dirk Beetstra T C 08:35, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
Questionable COIbot reports
Hi Dirk, I was in the process of cleaning up links after a page move when "What links here" for the former article title Letter and digit code showed an entry for Wikipedia:WikiProject Spam/LinkReports/shop.bsigroup.com. Curious as I am I had a look at that page to check if this would be actually for the "BSI Group" I know or something else, only to find my curiosity confirmed. And since I have been "guilty" to have added links to this site as well in the past, I even found my name on the list of potential COI users. Investigating this further, I found that I am also listed on Wikipedia:WikiProject Spam/LinkReports/maximintegrated.com, Wikipedia:WikiProject Spam/LinkReports/tcl.tk and Wikipedia:WikiProject Spam/LinkReports/baselinescenario.com. Now, that's quite shocking!
The BSI Group site is the official site of the British Standards Institution, Maxim Integrated is the site of a well-known semiconductor manufacturer, the TCL site is the developer site of the TCL open source project - are they really SPAMing us? Do we have any evidence for this? If not, I would put these sites on the whitelist to avoid future false reports, because false reports not only make it difficult for editors to add links to these sites and thereby hinder people improving Wikipedia (perhaps that's why we have so many references to old BSI standards missing?) but also weaken Wikipedia's reputation, if external observers see such reputable sites on our lists.
Since I have no idea was this "baselinescenario" site is, I actually went and checked my "involvement": I reverted what appears to have been vandalism ([2]) in the European Financial Stability Facility article. Didn't look like SPAM to me, but since I am unfamiliar with that site, I won't go so far as to recommend whitelisting the site if some flshy behaviour has been observed regarding it.
Nevertheless, I guess you can imaging that I am not happy to find myself on your lists of potential COI users, especially since I am outspoken against ads and paid editing, and have been fighting SPAM here and in other community projects for decades. Given that I am editing under my real name, this can even harm my reputation, therefore I'd like to ask you to put me on a white list as well (and ideally remove me from these four old lists). Thanks. --Matthiaspaul (talk) 11:14, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Matthiaspaul: The box at the top of each report says it all: '
Your appearance there does not mean you or one of the other accounts named here have a conflict of interest with adding the link, or that you or one of the other accounts named here were spamming the link: it may very well be accidental overlap, or a good link that was picked up by the bot accidentily, or a good link which is nonetheless under investigation of Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard or Wikipedia:WikiProject Spam
' The bot had reason to report the domain, so that a human can investigate the report. You were in all cases one of the editors who added the link, which may very well show that there is genuine use for the link, or that you accidentaly reverted back in a bad link. I guess I appear in hundreds of these reports. - Regarding the bsigroup, that link was reported as 'spammy', and I still think that a 'shop' link is inappropriate in most cases, as in the original report of that link, .tk is blacklisted (with tcl.tk whitelisted), the other two I can't see here why they are reported, someone likely had a look to their use.
- Although putting you on whitelists will result in your edits not triggering reports, you will still appear in the reports as one of the users of the link - because that is what these reports are, lists of users of a link, and the conclusion that someone has a conflict of interest is down to the person who investigates the use. --Dirk Beetstra T C 11:56, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
Liberal National Party
This article had semiprotection set in 2011 claiming that the reason of protection was "continued promotion, pushing etc"., it is already not fair to set indefinite for the first time (unless arbitration decision) offence, and now this protection was already around for 7 years and two election defeat, and saw very little editing around, how about you consider to remove protection from this article? Thank you. 202.161.64.247 (talk) 12:56, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
- @202.161.64.247: I am certainly willing to reconsider .. though, on which article exactly? Liberal National Party is a disambig, and not protected. --Dirk Beetstra T C 13:01, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
Well, yeah, it was my mistake, I was referring to Liberal National Party of Queensland, the exact article you’ve protected over 7 years ago. 202.161.64.247 (talk) 13:37, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
- @202.161.64.247: I reviewed it, something from the pre-AbuseFilter time which may have been better under an abusefilter protection. 7 years is a long time (funny that no-one ever remarked about it before, and just a few requests for edits). I have removed the protection, lets see. But if similar abuse restarts, I will protect it again without question. --Dirk Beetstra T C 14:55, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
Reactionbox
Dear Dirk,
concerning the "reactionbox": is there a way to edit http://www.organic-... into https://www.organic-...? I personally don't find the solution.
And something else: there are bots that change http into https, but only for specific websites. Well it's pity, that only major websites are covered or some users limit their bots to regionally-aligned offers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bots/Requests_for_approval/KolbertBot). Maybe you know a cheap solution. I currently edit by hand and this is just time-consuming.
Best regards
Reto 31.11.20.64 (talk) 11:51, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
- @31.11.20.64: I guess that is an edit to {{reactionbox}} or a subtemplate of it. I can have a look later.
- I think that KolbertBot is working from lists, converting all of a certain set of websites. I am sure that you can request websites to be added to it on it's talkpage. --Dirk Beetstra T C 12:58, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
Dear Dirk! I have to thank you! I really don't find the solution. Concerning KolbertBot: That bot preferably edits .ca domains ;-). Well, I can for sure try to contact the bot owner or owners of similar bots... Best regards Reto 31.11.20.64 (talk) 23:16, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
@Dirk: please do me a favour and just contact me by email (see imprint), if you cannot edit the reactionbox due to write protection. Maybe you have an idea, who could still do this. 31.11.20.64 (talk) 16:28, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
- I have just updated reactionbox after this ping of you. The other ones either need to be done manually, or by bot - see WP:BOTREQ. --Dirk Beetstra T C 19:10, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
Great! I am really thankful and I am aware of the fix! I will have a look at the bot suggestion page...! I see the drawback, that bots need to be allowed in regional wikipedia versions. I believe I am faster by hand. Best regards Reto 31.11.20.64 (talk) 14:42, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
- Alternative idea: get an account and get it approved for WP:AWB. Then you can create lists yourself and update them semi-automated (within the rules of using AWB, of course). --Dirk Beetstra T C 16:07, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
Lepidoptera link deletion
Hi Beetstra, I wanted to thank you for dealing with removing most of the extraneous external links which had been added by Lepidoptera~plwiki. Good work! Gilded Snail (talk) 19:42, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Gilded Snail: you are welcome. I amhowever sorry it had to come to this. This should have been noticed earlier. --Dirk Beetstra T C 03:57, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
Leanne Redman
Please undelete Leanne Redman immediately. She is clearly notable (as has already been discussed by multiple contributors at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women in Red and Wikipedia talk:Notability (academics)), and your G5 deletion was out of process as the article had been significantly improved by another user (me), not to mention that the SPI had not concluded. —David Eppstein (talk) 19:13, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
- PS That goes double for Evelyn Wang, which is not even close to resembling the originally-created version. In that case you left the article in place but deleted its talk page, which included a DYK nomination I had made there. What do you think you are trying to accomplish by doing that? —David Eppstein (talk) 19:18, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
- @David Eppstein: Sorry, somehow I missed this section - likely because of the indent I thought that it was my reply as there were more messages. My apologies for the confusion. I have now restored the former (the other one already later), though we could discuss on the scale of 'substantial' there, and also the talkpage of the latter.
- Note: the SPI had concluded - the evidence is massive WP:DUCK (but just in case I had an off-wiki CU double check). --Dirk Beetstra T C 06:18, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks for the restorations. —David Eppstein (talk) 06:53, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
You miss the point, Isha Sesay is the founder of that project https://we-canlead.org/founder-2/ Iput that link into the article, so leave it like it is please. —Tlwm (talk) 20:31, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Tlwm: please readthe cited guideline. Thelink is indirect, peryour statement here. --Dirk Beetstra T C 05:25, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
- I've done that and changed it. Thanks for the advice. Tlwm (talk) 10:53, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
Requesting temporary (?) addition to User:COIBot/Settings.css
Hi :)
I seem to be unable to trigger a COIbot poke despite being a member of the "rollbacker" group. There might be an issue with the settings:
- grantedgroups=sysop|bureaucrat|founder|steward|checkuser|rollback|template editor
Maybe this should be "rollbacker" instead. If that also doesn't work, I would like to request being included as "grantedusers" until the issue is resolved. Thank you very much in advance. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 19:03, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
- @ToBeFree: I've set both .. I'll have a look in the code and in the API. Thanks. --Dirk Beetstra T C 03:38, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you very much! :) ~ ToBeFree (talk) 03:44, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
- Hmm. I've had a closer look at meta:User:COIBot/Settings.css. It does contain "rollbacker", but only in the global part marked with
"(as soon as I changed the code)"
. The local configuration for en.wikipedia only contains "rollback", which is not a group name and thus does not work. I would like to poke the bot regarding this ELN report, but it does not seem to work yet. Could you replace "rollback" by "rollbacker" on meta:User:COIBot/Settings.css, even if this should theoretically be already working? Thanks! ~ ToBeFree (talk) 15:41, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
- Hmm. I've had a closer look at meta:User:COIBot/Settings.css. It does contain "rollbacker", but only in the global part marked with
by Beetstra via IRC. Thank you very much! ~ ToBeFree (talk) 16:41, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
nitro coffee
Hello, I recently added some info to the nitro coffee page in which I mentioned that nitro coffee machines have been introduced so people can make nitro coffee at home for a lower cost. Instead of paying $5 a cup people can now pay less than $1 a cup and brew their own nitro coffee at home. While adding this I linked nitro coffee machine to an external link that talks about nitro coffee with video explanations as well.
However I just got a message from you saying you removed this minor edit. Could you please allow me to add this in the article for nitro coffee.
Your help is highly appreciated. Yasar Pervaiz— Preceding unsigned comment added by Yasar Pervai (talk • contribs) 06:27, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Yasar Pervai: Please read the policies and guidelines pointed out to you. We are not writing a soapbox here, your material is inappropriate for an encyclopedia. --Dirk Beetstra T C 07:03, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
You deleted this article, originally created by a sockpuppet. But I have also worked on it extensively, with a almost complete restatement of the emphasis and correction of the errors; and I consider her unequivocally notable . Please restore. I know I can do it myself, but I always ask. DGG ( talk ) 23:33, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
- @DGG: I will undelete, though much (most) of the core is still a trophy for this particular sock. I considered, and expressed elsewhere just now, to revdel the contents of every single content edit by this user (though that would still leave the trophy in the end), in spirit of WP:DENY and our banning/blocking policy. --Dirk Beetstra T C 05:41, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
- Who cares about trophies collected by socks? G5 mass deletion is a serious measure that should only be undertaken to protect the integrity of the encyclopedia content. When (as apparently in this case) the content is unproblematic, it should be avoided, and the fact that this supposed sock has spent their sockery creating what looks like good and properly sourced content should call into question the reasons they were blocked and forced to sock. —David Eppstein (talk) 05:54, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
- @David Eppstein: 'forced to sock' .. the editor is a perpetual copyright violator, using abusive language. That behaviour is still continuing until now with the socks (their uploaded images are still removed as violations of our NFCC requirements). Besides that, I have, repeatedly, asked the editor to return to their main account and get it unblocked. They refuse. If you go through the edits, you will see that some of the edits do contain problems of this nature as well. Just to be clear, this editor is banned. --Dirk Beetstra T C 05:58, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
- The articles I saw had no images. If the reason this user was banned was unrepentantly uploading copyvio images, then of course I agree with the ban, but if so you are in violation of the requirements for G5 in a different way: "To qualify, the edit must be a violation of the user's specific block or ban. Pages created by a topic-banned user may be deleted if they come under that particular topic, but not if they are legitimately about some other topic." —David Eppstein (talk) 06:00, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
- @David Eppstein: "A site ban is not merely a request to avoid editing "unless they behave". The measure of a site ban is that even if the editor were to make good edits, permitting them to re-join the community is perceived to pose enough risk of disruption, issues, or harm, that they may not edit at all, even if the edits seem good. A number of banned editors have used "good editing" (such as anti-vandalism edits) tactically, to try and game the banning system, "prove" they cannot be banned, or force editors into the paradox of either allowing banned editing or removing good content. Even if such editors only make good edits, they will be rebanned for evasion." .. though I can see that 'G5' criteria do not align with that, my deletions are rooted in our banning policy. There are NO good edits from banned editors. --Dirk Beetstra T C 06:05, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
- That's not what G5 says, so if you want to remove those edits you need to use a different process. More to the point, why have you continued to fail to restore my edits to Leanne Redman and Talk:Evelyn Wang long after I made that request above? —David Eppstein (talk) 06:09, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
- @David Eppstein: that is why I linked to WP:BUREAUCRACY. I have just asked for clarification on WP:AN. --Dirk Beetstra T C 06:19, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
- this is a frequent dilemma--the oractical way of enforcing a ban is to deny the contributions, but if the subjects are important enough, this harms the encyclopedia. I would not have asked about Larssen, nor (presumably) David Epstein about Redman and Wang , had we not judged the individual were so important in their fields that coverage was essential--and had we not been specialists in that particular subject area. And even so, I would probably not have asked about, Larssen has I not previous to your deletion worked significantly on the article, to the extent of an almost complete rewriting. When an article by a banned individual has been worked on by a responsible editor here, that editor is normally considered to have adopted the article adnd taken responsibility for it. Whatever you wdo about the sock's work, you can not remove our' work under G5. That's the problems with mass removal--they are indiscriminate and do not take account of circumstances. .It is normally considered that mass removals require specific prior authorization at ANI -- and, even so, in recent cases most of the articles subject to such mass removals have in practice not been deleted because established editors spoke up for them. DGG ( talk ) 08:27, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
- @David Eppstein: that is why I linked to WP:BUREAUCRACY. I have just asked for clarification on WP:AN. --Dirk Beetstra T C 06:19, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
- That's not what G5 says, so if you want to remove those edits you need to use a different process. More to the point, why have you continued to fail to restore my edits to Leanne Redman and Talk:Evelyn Wang long after I made that request above? —David Eppstein (talk) 06:09, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
- @David Eppstein: "A site ban is not merely a request to avoid editing "unless they behave". The measure of a site ban is that even if the editor were to make good edits, permitting them to re-join the community is perceived to pose enough risk of disruption, issues, or harm, that they may not edit at all, even if the edits seem good. A number of banned editors have used "good editing" (such as anti-vandalism edits) tactically, to try and game the banning system, "prove" they cannot be banned, or force editors into the paradox of either allowing banned editing or removing good content. Even if such editors only make good edits, they will be rebanned for evasion." .. though I can see that 'G5' criteria do not align with that, my deletions are rooted in our banning policy. There are NO good edits from banned editors. --Dirk Beetstra T C 06:05, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
- The articles I saw had no images. If the reason this user was banned was unrepentantly uploading copyvio images, then of course I agree with the ban, but if so you are in violation of the requirements for G5 in a different way: "To qualify, the edit must be a violation of the user's specific block or ban. Pages created by a topic-banned user may be deleted if they come under that particular topic, but not if they are legitimately about some other topic." —David Eppstein (talk) 06:00, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
- @David Eppstein: 'forced to sock' .. the editor is a perpetual copyright violator, using abusive language. That behaviour is still continuing until now with the socks (their uploaded images are still removed as violations of our NFCC requirements). Besides that, I have, repeatedly, asked the editor to return to their main account and get it unblocked. They refuse. If you go through the edits, you will see that some of the edits do contain problems of this nature as well. Just to be clear, this editor is banned. --Dirk Beetstra T C 05:58, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
- @DGG: I feel this specific case is controversial in this manner (as leaving the material is exactly creating (and has created) the situations described in the banning policy. I have suggested revdel on VPP for those cases to 'meet both ends' - 'G5' the material contributed, leaving the rest. --Dirk Beetstra T C 08:34, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
- I've commented there. I want to thank you for taking the trouble to deal with this issue in a general way. Most of the time we just deal with c immediate problems, and we should more often consider the general situation, as you are doing. (I personally focus only on immediate problema myself, and I will try to at least sometimes follow your good example here.) DGG ( talk ) 08:52, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
- @DGG: I missed this post, sorry. You are of course welcome and thank you for the nice words. This is one of those situations where no-one wins .. the only solution is to quickly find the socks (I've updated the AbuseFilter with some new stuff). --Dirk Beetstra T C 08:12, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
- Who cares about trophies collected by socks? G5 mass deletion is a serious measure that should only be undertaken to protect the integrity of the encyclopedia content. When (as apparently in this case) the content is unproblematic, it should be avoided, and the fact that this supposed sock has spent their sockery creating what looks like good and properly sourced content should call into question the reasons they were blocked and forced to sock. —David Eppstein (talk) 05:54, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
Hashtag united F.C.
No, I have no relation in anyway with Hashtag United apart from the fact I am a fan who is trying to make their Wikipedia article as informative as possible as there is many people who will want to know more about the club due to their history from YouTube to semi professional football and them making it to mainstream media. Hope this helps. - TheMasterGuru
- @TheMasterGuru: OK, I already though you were a fan, not intimately related to the subject. Thank you. --Dirk Beetstra T C 08:38, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
Precious anniversary
Four years! |
---|
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:26, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: Thank you. --Dirk Beetstra T C 08:39, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
COIBot causing lint errors: Multi colon escape
Wikipedia:WikiProject Spam/UserReports/Zain Hussain Shah, created by User:COIBot, has Lint errors: Multi colon escape in 10 of the 27 entries. Please modify your software so that at most one colon is used at the start of each wikilink. —Anomalocaris (talk) 01:20, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Anomalocaris: I will try. --Dirk Beetstra T C 08:39, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Anomalocaris: It's not COIBot, likely, it is one of the templates on the page that has a wrong coding in it. --Dirk Beetstra T C 16:07, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
- Belay that, not true either. My regex seems to fail. --Dirk Beetstra T C 16:11, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Anomalocaris: Done. Part of my code was not following a new system .. resulting in old-type reports still being saved. My apologies for the inconvenience. --Dirk Beetstra T C 16:39, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks! —Anomalocaris (talk) 18:09, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
Barbra Streisand
in April 1972, she performed live at the Los Angeles Forum, a benefit concert for Democratic candidate George McGovern. Why is this not included in her live appearances? The concert was so memorable that it yielded a stellar live album “Live At The Forum”. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:9196:3200:A48E:3BCC:9B5D:B20 (talk) 21:30, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
- @2605:E000:9196:3200:A48E:3BCC:9B5D:B20: I am sorry, but how do I know. If you have proper references, include it. --Dirk Beetstra T C 04:25, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
Request to respond
Hello. I'm randomly messaging you because you are the most active administrator on the mediawiki-talk:spam-blacklist. I added a genuine request about removal of an entry from the black list. I think it is completely per wikipedia rules but people dont seem to be much active on the noticeboard. Kindly check and respond. Many thanks in advance. --Pez Seiq (talk) 10:27, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
- I already did. --Dirk Beetstra T C 12:44, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
CFE link removal
Hi,
I'm writing to comment on the entry about Marnitam at the WikiProject Spam archive from August 1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Spam/2018_Archive_Aug_1)
I'm a librarian at the TIFF's (Toronto International Film Festival) Film Reference Library, and the website being linked to (Canadian Film Encyclopedia) was a projected by the TIFF Film Reference Library. The contents of the site was generated by journalists and filmmakers using credible resources (see site's Bibliography and acknowledgements).
I completely understand that we shouldn't just dump the website's URL under external links on established articles - so rest assured we will refrain from doing so in the future. That said, I wanted to clarify that the website is a credible source. We would also like to continue to contribute to Wikipedia articles using the library's resources including this encyclopedia. We don't want to keep being flagged as a potential spam, so if I'd be happy to discuss this further with you.
Tiffmercado (talk) 21:28, 27 August 2018 (UTC)tiffmercado
- @Tiffmercado: So this is the third account related to the site.
- As noted there, there is recognition that this is a site with worthy information, though we would need to see whether the mission of the site and information Wikipedia would take would work out. But that is not an excuse indeed to 'spam' the site all over the external links sections where ever possible. Especially our external links sections should be kept to a minimum, and are not a place to dump yet another link just because it is 'on topic' or 'relevant' (see our external links guideline). Our rules for referencing are distinctly different, but just referencing facts because you give 'evidence' is frowned upon, as is just adding facts for the sake of references (for more info, see our verifiability policy, and our reliable sources guideline). We have noticeboards for each (resp. external links noticeboard and the reliable sources noticeboard) where you can get more information on specific uses (note that especially sourcing depends on the specific use).
- My advice: read the applicable policies and guidelines, particularly MediaWiki's terms of use and our conflict of interest guideline, and then connect yourself with an appropriate WikiProject (see Wikipedia:WikiProject for a general overview). You may also be interested in talking to people from WP:GLAM. In case of doubt, please just post to the talkpages of the page where you want to add your links. --Dirk Beetstra T C 05:20, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
Sock of Slowking
Hey Beetstra. Would User:Hectormollcarrillo be considered a sock of Slowking?? I am asking because Hector created the Draft for Deborah Fallows see here and after it was rejected, GordonFlack (slowking's sock) submitted the Deborah Fallows draft after working on it awhile. Thanks JC7V-constructive zone 17:11, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
- @JC7V7DC5768: thanks for the heads up. It is possible, but I cannot say anything for sure here, not enough edits. It does seem coincidental though. I'll keep an eye. --Dirk Beetstra T C 17:19, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
Notice of noticeboard discussion
There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.
69.181.23.220 (talk) 23:59, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
InfoWars
Thanks. This might have been a hard sell at Meta, the one domain there was spammed by an unrelated spammer. This protects enWP specificaly, and avoids any fight over whether there might be a legitimate use within WMF generally. Guy (Help!) 12:19, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
- @JzG: You're welcome. It starts to add up, one spam case globally, an RfC on unreliability, enough reason to stop it altogether. But we can see what happens next, if there are more wikis making the same choice.
- Please next time throw the link of the RfC into the request. Then it all links together in the requests and it is easy to trace-back in case we get the complaint that 'we blacklisted solely for being unreliable' (which is bound to happen).
- Any clue why the IP was so .. persistent, throwing in Godwin's law at the second edit? --Dirk Beetstra T C 13:54, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
- It's InfoWars, not a surprise to see a New Jersey IP up in arms about any pushback. Guy (Help!) 14:38, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
FYI
I deleted Muna (film director) because this is this kid who has been trying to stuff himself onto Wikipedia under various articles. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 04:15, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
- @Gogo Dodo: Thank you. Seemed reasonably referenced, though (but I did not go into detail). --Dirk Beetstra T C 07:31, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
- None of the references are valid. They're all top level links to The Times of India or Wikipedia. He got locked out of his real name, moved around to variations of his name, and has now started to overwrite unrelated names. The delusional claims are becoming more grandiose as time goes on. I'm sure he will be back... -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 07:46, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
Page protection for COIBot
It's a rather horrible bodge that COIBot is currently relying on naming its log and settings files .css to prevent other editors from messing with it.
Changing the file extension to .json will fix the problem: COIBot can still edit it and any admin can also edit it.
One other possibility is granting COIBot Wikipedia:Template editor permission and template-protect its settings and log files. Unless COIBot currently relies on not having template-protect to prevent it from accidentally messing up templates, it might be a more elegant solution that calling a file .css or .json when it in fact neither. Deryck C. 16:06, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
- The settings were done so I could edit them from COIBot itself, as well as only other admins.
- The other is not a log, it is a revertlist for XLinkBot. It is one of the pages that the bot needs to be able to edit, and that should be pretty strongly protected. Template-editors should be fine, though.
- But the other solutions are elegant as well. I don't think that there is a problem doing that (except that I will need to make sure that the bots can find them. --Dirk Beetstra T C 16:21, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
- Great. Let me know when you have decided which solution to adopt. Deryck C. 17:28, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
- Hmmm ... meta does not have 'template editor' ... so I may be forced to consider the json option. --Dirk Beetstra T C 18:24, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
- That could take a while MediaWiki doesn't let you save a JSON file which has fatal syntax errors so you can't just rename the file .json. In the meantime you can continue maintaining the bot using IAdmin rights. Deryck C. 17:09, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
- Hmmm ... meta does not have 'template editor' ... so I may be forced to consider the json option. --Dirk Beetstra T C 18:24, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
- Great. Let me know when you have decided which solution to adopt. Deryck C. 17:28, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
Poke problems?
Hello Beetstra, my latest poke in User:COIBot/Poke didn't work, could you take a look please when you have some time? I know that there have been some changes regarding the settings file and user rights handling - maybe something related to these changes stopped working as intended? If you are already aware and working on this aspect, please feel free to ignore this post :). Many thanks for your efforts to limit spamming on Wikipedia - always appreciated. PS: If you need a re-poke from me for testing, please let me know. GermanJoe (talk) 12:38, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
- @GermanJoe: it was the iAdmin debacle. Setting files needed careful editing and moving to not break stuff (which I did not do). Without direct access things get a bit obnoxious to do. I could poke your request now, and it was saved, so it seems to work. --Dirk Beetstra T C 13:33, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
bot interface pages
Hi Beetstra, I understand the opposition editors points, but was a bit surprised they were as present for a temporary grant. I did some checking on testwiki, and just 'moving' or 'changecontentmodeling' a page in to json doesn't look like it is really going to work due to conflicting data types and stricter checking on json pages. If you worked out this process I'd be happy to help execute for you. Outstanding that I suggest you just create fresh .json pages (which may require changes to your bot to read the updated page formats) and leaving the old pages in-place as reference - this will allow the bot account and admins to edit the pages still. If you would like admin and temporary int-admin on testwiki I can add you over there, just ping me. — xaosflux Talk 11:40, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
Talk?
Hi Beetstra,
I hope you're doing well! I had a couple of chemistry things I wanted your help with, and I was wondering if we could talk on IRC, Skype, Zoom email and/or phone to try to resolve them. The items are (a) our links to organic-chemistry.org need updating, (b) expanding the no. of validated CAS nos. (CAS are interested in doing this), (c) Wikidata and WP chemistry pages and (d) I wanted to know how the validation bot is working right now. If we think we need action on anything, I will bring it to WP:Chemistry or Chemicals. Would you be able to talk? If so, can you let me know your preferred "mode of communication"?! Many thanks, Walkerma (talk) 11:56, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
Spam-blacklist revert
Hi Beetstra! Hope your day is going well :-). I saw your edit to MediaWiki:Spam-blacklist where you reverted my addition to the list. Your edit summary just said, "for meta", and I'm not sure what that means. Does that mean that this domain has been globally blacklisted on meta? Or does that mean something else? Just curious and wanted to ask as well as make sure I didn't inadvertently mess something up? Let me know when you can. Thanks :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 19:22, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
- @Oshwah: Hi! It is a redirect site, they go without questions on the global blacklist. You don't even need abuse. This particular set of spammers has already resulted in many blacklisted links. I delisted here, and pulled the trigger on meta. --Dirk Beetstra T C 19:28, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
- Beetstra - Thanks for responding and for explaining - I'll make sure to request addition to the global blacklist next time I run into a redirect URL like this in the future. Where is the global blacklist page on meta? And where is the page where I'd request a redirect link like this be added to the global blacklist? Thanks again for the help :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 19:32, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
- @Oshwah: Our standard response is Defer to Global blacklist ({{defermetablack}}). I think it is linked somewhere in the top of WT:SBL and WT:SWL aswell. --Dirk Beetstra T C 04:03, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
- Beetstra - Sounds good; I'll figure it out I'm sure ;-). Thanks again for the responses and for your assistance. I appreciate it very much :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 04:06, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
- @Oshwah: Our standard response is Defer to Global blacklist ({{defermetablack}}). I think it is linked somewhere in the top of WT:SBL and WT:SWL aswell. --Dirk Beetstra T C 04:03, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
- Beetstra - Thanks for responding and for explaining - I'll make sure to request addition to the global blacklist next time I run into a redirect URL like this in the future. Where is the global blacklist page on meta? And where is the page where I'd request a redirect link like this be added to the global blacklist? Thanks again for the help :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 19:32, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
IRC
Hey if you have a moment, could you pop onto IRC? Dealing with some spam issues in -spam-t and other spam channels (ironically, spambots.) And I think you're the only OP? CHRISSYMAD ❯❯❯¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 12:42, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
Dispute filed to facilitate improvements to time series database page
Still attempting to resolve the quality issues of the TSDB page, dispute filed here. Kamelkev (talk) 18:30, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
- @Kamelkev: Already closed. Can you please read up onour policies and guidelines, and start providing references that are independent from the source.
Double-check
Would you mind looking at this formatting? (Please ping me.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:42, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
- @WhatamIdoing: except that it maybe should better attribute the website, and that it duplicates a reference I see no problems there. What is your concern? --Dirk Beetstra T C 08:50, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
- A citation template seems like overkill in the ==External links== section. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:46, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
- @WhatamIdoing: To that I agreE, but I see it a lot. --Dirk Beetstra T C 02:39, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
- A citation template seems like overkill in the ==External links== section. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:46, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
Waiting period on the latest proposal
Would you be okay with including, say, a 24-hour waiting period in your latest proposal on WT:INTADMIN? I think it's the best chance we have of passing something, but I think it'll draw too many opposes if there's no waiting period. (Please ping when replying.) Enterprisey (talk!) 00:02, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
- (I've also proposed that we just postpone this question for a later RfC.) Enterprisey (talk!) 00:10, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
@Enterprisey: Bureaucrats are notjust sitting there waiting fortasks. I had to wait hours before getting it. And what does 24 hours accomplish? Say the account is compromised in one of the ways user:Johnuniq describes. If the real owner is unaware, there is a reasonable chance that even a week does not help.
Regarding user:Anomie's response, admins haven't fucked up in years. Most admins know they do not have te technical skill to edit there (I see admins stating that on the blacklists). Other admins just never fucked it up, but really do not have the 'skills'. It just needs to be the elite, we just want a second RfA. --Dirk Beetstra T C 02:37, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
- Would you be okay with postponing the waiting period question to a later RfC? Enterprisey (talk!) 03:31, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
- @Enterprisey: .. we are not even finding decent middle ground on what we have ... we seem to be 50:50 on a waiting period (without evidence that it might help), and 50:50 on skills/RfA 2.0 (where people with skills fuck up as well and which has nothing to do with security itself), and possibly 50:50 on whether admins need long-term access. It is fine with me to add a waiting period of up to 24 hours, but I don't expect significant use for it, and only expect it to be abused (24 hours to badger the admin about their skills, need for the bit, what they want to do, whether it is needed to be done, and other iadmins doing it for them - it can even be abused into the RfA 2.0 if that does not pass). --Dirk Beetstra T C 03:54, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
- I think we're going to be fine on the latter two questions, but I fear that the pro-waiting-period camp will oppose and sink it. The pro-RfA-2.0 camp, though, will be fine with very limited grants of this sort. I'm in favor of letting the waiting period debate happen later. Enterprisey (talk!) 04:23, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
- @Enterprisey: .. we are not even finding decent middle ground on what we have ... we seem to be 50:50 on a waiting period (without evidence that it might help), and 50:50 on skills/RfA 2.0 (where people with skills fuck up as well and which has nothing to do with security itself), and possibly 50:50 on whether admins need long-term access. It is fine with me to add a waiting period of up to 24 hours, but I don't expect significant use for it, and only expect it to be abused (24 hours to badger the admin about their skills, need for the bit, what they want to do, whether it is needed to be done, and other iadmins doing it for them - it can even be abused into the RfA 2.0 if that does not pass). --Dirk Beetstra T C 03:54, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
Rudolf Schock on Wikipedia - your last revision
Dear Mr. Beetstra, I'm a Dutchman and prefer to write to you in Dutch. I hope, you are willing to accept that: Al jaren staat mijn blog betr. de tenor Rudolf Schock op de Engelse Wikipedia-versie vermeld als "external link" (Linkt u via Google naar "Fascination Rudolf Schock", dan zult u zien, dat het gaat om een serieuze weblink, die de lezer meertalig uitgebreid informeert over de zanger Schock, zijn artistieke kwaliteiten en de vele componisten, van wie hij muziek zong en - op geluidsdrager - zingt). Sinds (relatief) kort voeg ik onder licentie van muzieksite YouTube aan de blog eigen muziekvoorbeelden (audio video's) toe, waaronder ook een zorgvuldige, gefilmde biografie, die intussen een plaatsje heeft gekregen in de "Theatersammlung" van de Universiteit Keulen. De gefilmde biografie (op dit moment de enige over de zanger!) was voor mij aanleiding de informatie op Wikipedia - naar mijn mening - zinvol aan te vullen. Nu blijkt echter plotseling, dat de COMPLETE link naar mijn blog is geschrapt.
Ik meende dan ook, dat het redelijk was, in elk geval op dit punt de Engelstalige versie van het Wikipedia-artikel over Rudolf Schock weer in haar oude staat terug te brengen. De filmbiografie mag u dan achterwege laten, al is dat m.i. jammer voor de bezoekers van de Wikipedia-site.
Met vriendelijke groet, Krijn de Lege (<redacted email> Krijn de Lege 13:21, 17 September 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Krijn de Lege (talk • contribs)
- @Krijn de Lege: That links are there for years is not a reason to keep them. It may be that they were never noticed before. The point is, that this is Wikipedia, not a replacement for Google or further. The only thing that is a pity for the readers is that there is no more information included in the article. The external links sections are not a dumping place for links for people to find more information. The article itself should be complete, and it is absolutely not.
- Please, can you read our conflict of interest guideline and m:Terms of use. Be careful editing with subjects that you are affiliated with. --Dirk Beetstra T C 13:55, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
Dear Mr. Beetstra,
Aanvullende 'external links' staan niet voor niets helemaal onderaan een Wikipedia-artikel. M.i. staan ze daar om leergierige lezers, die NA lezing van een Wikipedia-artikel meer over het desbetreffende onderwerp willen weten, naar aanvullende informatie te verwijzen. De overige 'external links' onder het Rudolf Schock-artikel doen dat ook, zij het, dat de informatie daarvan mij als bescheidener en zeker niet afrondend voorkomt.
Ik verzoek u dan ook vriendelijk de link naar mijn blog, die absoluut niet als een dumpplaats voor weetjes functioneert, op Wikipedia te laten staan. Misschien zie ik het verkeerd, maar kan het zijn, dat u met 'moderne' internet-verschijnselen als Google, YouTube, Facebook enz. niet zo veel op hebt? Ik ben 76 jaar, draai mijn rug naar Facebook en roei voort met de riemen, die ik dankzij Google en YouTube ter beschikking heb. Ben benieuwd, wat u uiteindelijk beslist.
Met vriendelijke groet uit Nederland, Krijn de LegeKrijn de Lege 14:58, 17 September 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Krijn de Lege (talk • contribs)
- @Krijn de Lege: I am shocked that after 8 years with a welcome and three (!) warnings you did not find time to read our policies and guidelines that the bot left you, both regarding your blog and youtube. You misjudge what Wikipedia is. (and I have reverted your sneaky reinsertion) --Dirk Beetstra T C 17:21, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
Dear Mr. Beetstra, I thank you for your answer. I determine, you do not want to pay any attention to my arguments for keeping my external link in the article. The replacement of the blog was not meant sneaky. However, I like to offer you my apologies for giving you such a feeling. But I cannot agree with the fact, you retroactively deleted the COMPLETE link. Your explanation, that in the past Wikipedia-associates possibly have overlooked the link, also gives me a not so good feeling: It seems to me, you are tending to see your interpretation of the rules as the only correct one.
yours sincerely Krijn de Lege--Krijn de Lege 10:36, 18 September 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Krijn de Lege (talk • contribs)
- @Krijn de Lege: Actually, it wasn't ignored. The bot removed the link in 2010, and you re-inserted it. You were, since 2010, aware of the policies and guidelines. --Dirk Beetstra T C 12:23, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
bit.ly
Hello again Beetstra. I noticed that according to this COIBot report it is globally blacklisted. However, this edit appears to have succeeded. —PaleoNeonate – 13:38, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
- @PaleoNeonate: it is just the text, not the link. Apparently LiWa3's regex rips them out of the parsed page. Still enough reason to block them and blacklist the underlying target. --Dirk Beetstra T C 14:45, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
revision (859573609) to List_of_manual_image_annotation_tools
Hi, you undid my revision (859573609) to page https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_manual_image_annotation_tools
- I (think I) understand the independent source requirement, not sure why you apply that to a list of tools. If a tool exists and has no independent source to verify that, why not list it?
- How to proceed if I want to share this information, which I think is useful in general, with the wikipedia readership? What kind of links can help satisfy the source requirement?
Thanks!
Arielbaz (talk) 04:53, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
Ariel — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arielbaz (talk • contribs) 04:46, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
- @Arielbaz: We are now requesting that independent sourcing, per our general sourcing guidelines.
- Re 'If a tool exists and has no independent source to verify that, why not list it?', the independent source is not to verify that it exists, it is to verify that the outside world 'cares' about the product. A private hobby project by someone also exists, but if no-one in the outside world cares about it, then there is no reason to list it. That is the reason for independent sourcing (and independent then means, by someone else than the people who have written / developed it).
- Re 'What kind of links can help satisfy the source requirement': someone else, unaffiliated with the subject, who talks about/uses the/implements these etc. That can be academic sources that reference/discuss the code, it can be an independent company who implements the code, basically anything that writes about it outside of the people directly involved (note that having an own article automatically satisfies the criterion). --Dirk Beetstra T C 05:23, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
Thanks @Beetstra:, can this link for example satisfy this http://www.empsight.com/Collaboration/Clay-Sciences ?
Arielbaz (talk) 05:33, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
- @Arielbaz: The best way to discuss that would be on the talk:List_of_manual_image_annotation_tools, but I would agree that this is indeed one of the things I was mentioning in my previous post. Do we have a page on Empsight (otherwise it is still rather thin)? --Dirk Beetstra T C 06:35, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
- @Beetstra: recalled two more references
- https://www.nyai.co/nyai-22/
- https://www.geektime.co.il/deep-learning-challenges/ (in Hebrew. Google translate: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=iw&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.geektime.co.il%2Fdeep-learning-challenges%2F )
If you're ok with these, let me know if it's fine to add Clay Sciences to List_of_manual_image_annotation_tools again, citing these three sources in the References column.
Thanks Arielbaz (talk) 13:58, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
- @Arielbaz: as I said, the place to discuss this is on talk:List_of_manual_image_annotation_tools, I know what is not an independent source, but knowing what are reliable sources is up to the specialists - as long as they are independent. --Dirk Beetstra T C 14:02, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
- @Beetstra: ok, thanks. Is it better to (1) edit List_of_manual_image_annotation_tools (adding Clay Sciences again, with references) or first (2) discuss it on talk:List_of_manual_image_annotation_tools ?
- @Arielbaz: up to you. --Dirk Beetstra T C 17:13, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
- @Arielbaz: would you be aware of any reliable comparison reviews for image annotation software, or other references that could be used on the other unreferenced items in the list? I have announced to cut anything that is redlinked and unreferenced on the list soon, but it looks strange to me that in this field there is so little independent references: it is visible technology to the general public (google searches), and there are so many in that list. --Dirk Beetstra T C 03:50, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
- @Beetstra: Unfortunately not - there are some comparisons on quora, and in some scholarly papers but these are sparse and are not up to date. (we tried to survey relevant video annotation tools in our recent blog post, ended up only comparing 6 out of 13 or so we found [those left out were less useful], and in any case we have conflict of interest). A features section (eg similar to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_instant_messaging_clients#Features) would be very helpful.