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Archive 5Archive 6Archive 7Archive 8

Re: MOS

I appreciate the edits to Mountain Landscape, but neither of those paragraphs could be considered exceptionally short per the most liberal reading of MOS:OVERSECTION. I’m guessing you are using a large, 4K monitor? That’s the only explanation I can formulate. Viriditas (talk) 16:56, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

I think your changes to Silver Veil were well intentioned, and I did try to read the new version. There's a lot of issues now with the narrative, which is jumbled and out of order. I also don't see why the sections were eliminated since they weren't examples of MOS:OVERSECTION. It looks like you tried to merge those sections into others to make larger sections but I'm not convinced it works. Also, the moving of the description section to the top and the moving of the background section below and the elimination of the development section doesn't work for me for many reasons, primarily because we use Background > Development > Description/Work/Synopsis sections as standard sections in virtually all of our articles on art, entertainment, and fiction. It's not clear to me why you don't like this, but it seems somewhat of a radical change given how standardized it is. Viriditas (talk) 17:37, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
(edit conflict) ::As per OVERSECTION, filling an article with excess headings, in this case a strict one header per paragraph scheme, does nothing but inhibit the flow of the prose. In Mountain View for example, the "Description" section is awkwardly jammed in between where the painting came from and where it went; there is a misleadingly-titled section titles "Reproductions", which you might expect to detail copies painted by other artists, but which actually discusses why there aren't good reproductions; and you have a final section which places undue emphasis on recent events with meaningless ChatGPT-reminiscent sentences like the one I deleted. And no, it's quite apparent on a small laptop or the phone I type this on. Hope that helps. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:52, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
I understand that's your reading of oversection, and I see that you use extremely large paragraphs in your own articles and you prefer that style. That's fine. But that's not my reading of it, and I don't see the paragraphs as excessively short in this case. And the same goes for Silver Veil, which now makes little sense in the current format, and whose paragraphs were not short by any stretch of the imagination. As for recentism, I don't think that's true. It's almost 2025, and the controversy started in 2023 and was covered in every major media outlet. It also doesn't actually meet the recentism description, and there's been plenty of discussion and analysis to solidify the topic and warrant its own section. But that's not really my major concerns. My concern is that MOS:OVERSECTION is being in used in ways it was never designed and these changes are interfering with the structure and design of art-related articles to the point where they become atypical. And to address what you describe as meaningless sentences, this sentence exactly summarizes the entire controversy: "The controversy highlighted the tension between the financial reality of modern educational institutions and the cultural stewardship entrusted to them, raising important questions about the preservation of artistic heritage." While I think it can be certainly rephrased, that is an accurate and precise description of the Valpairsio controversy in a nutshell, so I'm curious why you dislike it. The tension between the financial reality of struggling modern universities and the expectation that they will be good stewards of art is the conflict. There's a huge amount of literature written about this. It's not meaningless, it's the very issue at heart in the controversy. Viriditas (talk) 18:14, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

I just added a new compromise version of Silver Veil that addresses many of your concerns and still preserves the structure I think is needed.[1] Please let me know if that's okay with you. Viriditas (talk) 18:30, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Same with Mountain Landscape.[2] Viriditas (talk) 18:49, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

I wanted to briefly address two other things, 1) You wrote above that the description section "is awkwardly jammed in between where the painting came from and where it went". I don't understand the disconnect here. That's exactly where the description section is supposed to be. Think of an article about a book or a film; it's the same, exact structure. 2) You wrote that the section on "Reproductions" had a misleading title. I think that's really an unfair characterization. While we can disagree about what to call the section, calling it misleading is overboard. While the section no longer exists and is now in the description section (which is very odd to me, but that's part of the compromise version), a section about "the action or process of making a copy of something" called "Reproductions" seems entirely reasonable. You're reading this in a way quite different from me. Viriditas (talk) 19:07, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Don't have much time to reply, but no, the normal outline for books or films is plot or synopsis first. Go look at any article at WP:FA if you don't believe me. Similarly, if you want to have a look for pther sections titled "Reproductions", "Adaptations", or similar, but which doesn't contain a list of other derivative works, let me know. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 21:43, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
That's super interesting. It looks like the style I'm talking about (this FA from 2015, for example, and there's lots more like that from around 2016 and before) was changed sometime in 2018 to 2019. I was away from Wikipedia from Feb. 2016 to Feb. 2019. When they said I was old school, I didn't think they meant literally. Viriditas (talk) 22:03, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
A few more variations from the archives: [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], [11]. That's just a few, there's a lot of FAs where the composition, design, or description come later in the article. As for films and novels in general, it looks like your position is primary, but there are secondary examples where films and books use the synopsis later, but that may have fallen out of fashion, I don't know. Viriditas (talk) 22:11, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

I moved the description to the top over at Mountain Landscape.[12] Let me know if that satisfies your concern. Viriditas (talk) 22:16, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

I also altered the hook per User:RoySmith's previous concerns about my use of wikivoice. Viriditas (talk) 22:28, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
I'm happy to change it further if you dislike the wording.[13] Viriditas (talk) 22:31, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Likewise, I moved the description to the top over at The Silver Veil and the Golden Gate.[14]. Let me know if there's anything else. Viriditas (talk) 22:19, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm not particularly interested into getting into an extended back-and-forth on this matter—I prefer that articles hew closer to the MOS, but this isn't a GA or FA review so I won't comment further. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:15, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

GA Assessment

Hello @AirshipJungleman29, hope you're doing well. Could you please have a look at the Bharatiya Janata Party article and confirm if it meets GA criteria or needs an assessment? Thanks in advance.-25 CENTS VICTORIOUS 🍁 13:02, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Looks generally good, aside from some duplication and WP:CITEKILL I have resolved, and some [citation needed] tags which you can have a go at fixing, 25 Cents FC. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:27, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
Thank you so much. -25 CENTS VICTORIOUS 🍁 13:59, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

A thanks from a french-speaker

Hello from Belgium,

I'm actually reading a lot about the vast area surrounding steppic trade, and of course, steppic states. It obviously led me to the mongol empire and its forming. Someone on discord just gave me your name and i noticed that my recent traduction have been facilitated thanks to your good work.

I simply wanted to send you this message to thank you. Your articles are very thorough and precise. Sometimes, I have nothing to add. The state of French-language articles on the steppes, in general, is particularly neglected. Thanks to you, things are improving. The article on Jalal ad-Din, for example, was as comprehensive as the source I use on the subject (*The Conquest of Khwarezm by Mongol Troops (1219–1221)* by Dmitry Timokhin, from *The Golden Horde in World History*, Tartaria Magna Series).  

Kind regards, and I look forward to reading and translating more of your work! Nanoyo88 (talk) 21:21, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm really quite gratified to read that Nanoyo88; I love the idea of the articles I write being translated into other languages. I haven't heard of that book/chapter before, but having managed to find an online copy I might draw upon it in the future, so thanks! If there's anything I can do to make your work as a translator easier, please let me know. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 21:44, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
Well, the difficulties encountered in the translation mainly concern reference templates that don't exist on WPfr. For instance, the multiple SFN template doesn't exist in our version. This means I have to retype everything manually. Similarly, the RP template is rarely used, and we generally prefer the SFN template, which is linked to a complete bibliography at the bottom of the page.
Regarding the source, I find it interesting because it involves Russian-speaking researchers supervised by renowned international specialists on the peer-review committee. From the outset, they are clear about their goal of historical reconstruction based on recent research on the Golden Horde, a topic that was censored during the Soviet Union. Just for this perspective alone, I find it compelling.  
I haven’t progressed much in it yet, but I’ve already used a lot of its content to improve WPfr. Compared to the state of articles on WPen, I assume most of this information is already covered there. Nanoyo88 (talk) 22:13, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
Yes, I'm finding the source quite interesting for its composition and sourcing. I recently rewrote our en.wp biography of Jochi and it probably would have been easier if I had access to this source's detailed exploration of him, but I don't think there were too many new detail provided. Sorry about {{sfnm}}, it's just a lot more professional-looking for us here. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:27, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
Perhaps you could give translating Genghis Khan into French a go? I've had a look at the fr.wp version (with my schoolboy memories and Google Translate), and I think the en.wp version is a thorough improvement on most levels. Obviously, it's a much bigger task than other articles, so don't feel pressured. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:39, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
Hello, and sorry for this late reply. Apparently, I must have clicked on the notification without reading it, as I just found it while intending to reach out to you again.
Indeed, I am considering improving the article on Genghis Khan using the English version as a basis. However, the scope of the work is massive, and as you can imagine, it will be closely reviewed by other users. Some are quite wary of translations, which can lead to excessive or even aggressive behaviors. That’s why I’ve been keeping it "on the back burner," as we say in French.
Initially, I came to you for a completely different topic. I’ve started translating articles about the various Uluses of the Golden Horde and their respective Khans. I’ve noticed that another user has done substantial groundwork there, but it suffers from significant issues with the formatting of references and bibliographies. Take, for example, Tokhtamysh. The reference citations attempt to follow an SFN model but lack proper formatting. While this is obviously much more complicated when translating (since bibliographies are translated as plain text rather than templates, requiring everything to be traced, linked, etc.), I believe it’s also an issue on wikiEN’s side.
So, I took the liberty of bringing up this small issue, which could probably be resolved at its root (from wikiEN).
Thank you again for your feedback.
P.S.: An archaeologist friend of mine is going to share a significant part of his library with me concerning the history of the populations of the Tarim Basin. He has already sent me quite a few archaeological documents. If the topic interests you, I’d be happy to keep you updated on my small projects on the French side, which could, this time, help improve wikiEN :) Nanoyo88 (talk) 13:40, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
Hi Nanoyo88, good to hear from you. Yeah, I can understand the difficulties with translating an article like Genghis; let me know if I can provide any assistance when you do. Sadly, I haven't quite got around to working on articles on later rulers like Timur and Toktamysh yet; they are (as we say too) on the back burner. I don't know if the previous editor was trying to follow an sfn model—en.wp allows quite a few citation styles, and this just seems to be a variant. Without overhauling the article itself, I'm prohibited from overhauling the citations per WP:CITEVAR (because in the past people have really edit-warred over their preferred citation styles). If the documents are relevant to the Mongol Empire, I'd love to read them—otherwise I'm probably not going to get much out of them. Thanks for the offer! ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:35, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
I’ve already made good progress on the Genghis Khan article. I’ve also reached out to Mme Favereau to get access to French-language sources and for a review of the page. If I come across any resources that allow me to update certain information or add relevant content, I’ll be sure to share them.
I think the contributor is simply doing "SFN" without a template. The SFN information is there, as is the bibliography information, but unfortunately, nothing is formatted or placed in a proper template. (And as a result, there are some bibliography entries I can’t trace back...)
I had no idea you had a rule about citation styles. Edit wars over that—what a strange idea... On the French side, we have basic bibliographic conventions, but nothing requires the use of the SFN template for references. It’s just “better,” but not mandatory.
Unfortunately, the works I’ve received don’t concern the Mongol Empire. You know me, I jump from topic to topic. Six months ago, I was working on the Ashantis, three months ago on the Scandinavian peoples, and now on the nomadic peoples of the Silk Road (which obviously includes the Mongols...!).
See you soon! Nanoyo88 (talk) 14:54, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Mentorship questions Oct-Nov

Question from EnockNseke on Spanish Army

Can a foreigner joining army --EnockNseke (talk) 03:34, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

Judging by this page, only if you are from a country that was part of the Spanish Empire EnockNseke ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 01:41, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Question from Viviany De Oliveira

Como fazer pra receber --Viviany De Oliveira (talk) 18:57, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

I'll leave a message on your talk page. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 20:02, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Question from Andrea shn87

Hey, so you know those "segments", don't know the specific name but those you do with ==name==, well I did some of them but they're in the wrong order and I don't really know how to change them, do i have to do them again? It's my first time doing this so I really have no idea 🤕

Sorry for the trouble and thank you in advance. --Andrea shn87 (talk) 04:02, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi there Andrea shn87; honestly the section headings (see Help:Section for more details) look fine to me. The bigger problem is whether the article meets the notability standards—it seems rather borderline at the minute. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:19, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Question from PatHamilton47

Hey Fieryninja, I appreciate your help!

I'm having a lot of difficulty with the page for Sarah Jama. I'll send you a link to the version I created, which has been repeatedly sabotaged: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sarah_Jama&oldid=1254559532

Some of my formatting isn't perfect, especially around dates for citations and so forth. But I think you'll agree that my content is objective, impartial, and well-substantiated.

I see that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:El_C locked the page and requires that extended confirmed users alone are allowed to make edits. While I applaud the protection, the problem is that the version implemented contains multiple very serious omissions, most notably MPP Sarah Jama's legislative work, which you'll see in my version, but not the page's current version.

Any help will be much appreciated, I only want the truth to be represented. Pat --PatHamilton47 (talk) 01:28, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

PatHamilton47, while I am not Fieryninja, I will try to help. Unfortunately, I cannot agree that the content you added was objective, impartial, or well-substantiated. To start with, any information you add in the lead section should summarise material already included in the body.
Secondly, all information should be sourced to a reliable, independent secondary source; a list of all motions is not that.
Thirdly, even considering the unreliable nature of the source, you are taking significant liberties with what they say, and presenting them in a way that cannot in any way be described as objective or impartial. Please remind yourself of the central importance and the guidelines of Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy.
If you have any further questions, feel free to ask. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 11:20, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
Thank you for this information, User:AirshipJungleman29 - I'm new to Wikipedia so this is quite illuminating.
-Regarding the lead section, I didn't realize this part at all, I can see why my proposition was rejected.
-Regarding the motions, I absolutely cannot agree. The source is the Ontario Legislature central database, stating precisely what was proposed by the MPP in question. How does this not qualify as a reliable independent secondary source? It is not from MPP Jama's website, or even a news source, both of which could take significant liberties with their presentation of the motion. The OLA website presents *verbatim* exactly what was written.
-As for the third point, this is completely valid - I'll concede I was not appropriately adhering to Wikipedia's neutral POV policy.
If I polish up my phrasing to adhere to the above policies, would you be willing to help me edit Jama's page? I'd really appreciate it, and I'm trying my best to learn Wiki's policies in good faith.
Thanks for your help regardless. PatHamilton47 (talk) 15:39, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
PatHamilton47, a database which "presents *verbatim* exactly what was written" is not good enough. MPPs are presumably free to write their proposals in whichever way they feel are most persuasive, no? Thus motion 106, for example, says that working with the selected representatives would "ensure access to adaptable housing for people with disabilities" and "benefit all Ontarians"—we cannot take that statement at face value and state it in Wikipedia's voice.
Even if the motion is completely correct, there is also the problem of due weight—if such a fact was not described in independent secondary sources, how much WP:WEIGHT do you give it in the article? Editors would have to make their own decision, which would be original research.
Of course, feel free to run any drafts by me. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 19:11, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
That makes a great deal of sense! Thank you for clarifying. I'll put together a couple higher-quality revisions and send them along to you, you can see what you think. PatHamilton47 (talk) 19:11, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Question from HAVUGIMANA Eric

Hello when there is a meeting of youths? --HAVUGIMANA Eric (talk) 12:15, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Afraid I can't help you there HAVUGIMANA Eric. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:12, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Question from Geroge Droid

Hello Sir, my name is George, I am an inspiring editor from Minnesota. Anyways, when I tried to edit a page i spotted a typo in, Wikipedia told me "to upload a photo first", what photo and how do I do that? --Geroge Droid (talk) 14:48, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi Geroge Droid, there shouldn't have been any need to upload a photo before editing a page. Please let me know if it happens when you try again. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:08, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Question from Crimson.Loftwing 1996

Hello. How do I make a citation? --Crimson.Loftwing 1996 (talk) 13:33, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi Crimson.Loftwing 1996, please see Help:Referencing for beginners. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:17, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

The Signpost: 12 December 2024

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Magadhan Empire

I have been seeing you falsely classifying Magadhan Empire as a psuedo nationlist idea, here i will provide sources for it.

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=kNriDwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22first+indian+empire%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwibtdaG1_KJAxU6a_UHHePNDYQQ6AF6BAgHEAM#v=onepage&q=%22first%20indian%20empire%22&f=false this book is primarily about it. JingJongPascal (talk) 16:56, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

No, that book is about the Nandas and the Mauryas, JingJongPascal, as you can see from the title, which is not "Age of the Magadhan Empire". See the difference? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:24, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
@AirshipJungleman29, maybe consider actually reading the index of the box for God's sake. JingJongPascal (talk) 17:37, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
...is that something you usually do? Normally the last section of the book is the last section I look at. Regardless, I can't access it. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 20:17, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Mentorship questions Dec

Question from Ami7993

Hi guide me how can i create new article? --Ami7993 (talk) 12:52, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Guide me how to post a new article on wikipedia --Ami7993 (talk) 12:53, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
Hi Ami7993, see Help:Your first article, or the links I have posted on your talkpage. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:55, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Questions from Yuanmongolempiredynasty

I think we'll get along alot, but, may I ask how you became my mentor? --Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 19:51, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

I too specialize in historical articles, and even more specifically on Mongol Empire articles. --Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 20:35, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
How many references do you need to publish an article --Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 20:37, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
For your first question, Yuanmongolempiredynasty, see the discussion I had with Estar on your talk page. For your last, an article probably needs at least three sources, but if there are so few, they all have to meet all the criteria at WP:GNG. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:48, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
Also, see WP:TALKREPLY for how to reply to other editors. You do not need to create a new section each time you have a question; just reply below my last words to you. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:50, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
I really want to finish my article, can you please help me find more references? --Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 11:44, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Yuanmongolempiredynasty, please see what I said above about how to reply to other editors. Is the article you are talking about Draft:Flagpedia.net? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:23, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Hi Airship! I was wondering. So I’ve tried my best to find more references to Draft:Flagpedia.net, but there are no books on it or more links I could reference. --Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 21:16, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Then it is likely not notable, Yuanmongolempiredynasty. See WP:GNG. Once again, please remember how to reply to other people's comments. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 03:38, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Hello Airship! So my problem with the referencing is that there literally aren’t any more sources I can reference. But you can see that it is a decently good article, if you agree. I don’t really understand that if there is no more references to an article, it doesn’t ever get published. So if you understand, there are no more articles or websites to reference and zero books to find. If you could do some research on it or find some more sources than that would be great😉 Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 23:07, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
On Flagpedia article Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 23:07, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
Hi Yuanmongolempiredynasty, if there are no reliable sources available, the article is just not appropriate as a Wikipedia page. I have had a look for sources, and there are none — it doesn't seem that Flagpedia is anywhere near notable. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 11:32, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
Ok☹️, I guess it’ll never get published. Well, I guess I’ll try some other time. Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 11:52, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
Hi Airship again! So I didn’t realize how important citations were, and now I want to learn how to make one and then practice them before I make my next possible article, so can you teach me, master? Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 11:58, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
Oh, one more thing Airship, any time you could maybe check if there is a article on the book The Horde:How The Mongols Changed the World, that might be my next article Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 12:01, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
I think The Horde would be a really good article for Wikipedia, and maybe the best way for you to learn about citations too. If you create a draft for it, you can experiment and play around with citations. There are certainly enough sources about the book for you to say it is notable. Good idea. Yuanmongolempiredynasty! ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:41, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for the support, I’m reading the book myself Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 00:48, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
I’m going to start it on Saturday. Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 11:28, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
But I have another question, my friend could access the Flagpedia draft, it was still a draft but it was accessible. Is that possible? Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 11:31, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
Any draft is accessible to anyone, whether they are Wikipedia user or not. However, if it is a draft, you will not be able to view it from a search engine or through links from other articles. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:02, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
Got it Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 12:03, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
I really need you right now Airship, so, CAN YOU CITE A SOURCE FROM A BOOK YOUR WRITING ABOUT
E.G. THE HORDE
I’VE ASKED YOU THREE OR FOUR TIMES NOW Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 17:00, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
And for Flagpedia, I’ve reached out to everyone who had involvement to maybe slightly help. Like Drmies the one who moved the article and mentioned I need any help I could get on it, but I guess it’s not going to do anything. Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 12:05, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
By the way, for the Horde, I’ll notify you if I need help again with referencing Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 12:01, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
Totally unrelated with the Horde.When I was with estar, I asked him how to make a infobox on Wikipedia, he told me to look at WP:Infobox or something like that, I did, but none of it made sense to me. So I took notes and that’s how I learned to make one. Maybe I could take notes on citations and then test them out on the Sandbox or The Horde. Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 12:09, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
You might find Help:Footnotes#Footnotes:_the_basics helpful. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:18, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
So, I started creating the Horde and I’m getting worried already that I won’t have enough references at the end and therefore will have done it all for nothing again. I do very much thank you for the support though. I’ll try my very best to make the perfect article. Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 17:50, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
So, could I source a page of the Horde in the Horde article. Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 18:33, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
By the way, I did find the Footnotes thing helpful. Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 19:20, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
I really need your help on that question, can I reference something inside of the Horde if I am writing about the Horde? Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 16:21, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello Airship! So, I’ve asked you a few times on your talk page and your not responding. I decided to ask the question here instead.

The question is one about citations, could I reference a part of the Horde inside the draft about the Horde --Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 17:05, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello Yuanmongolempiredynasty. This is my talk page. On Wikipedia, we are all volunteers who expect to be treated with respect. Rudely demanding the answer to a question three times within a day without giving another editor time to respond is extremely poor manners. Before I answer your question, I expect a sincere apology, especially for this comment. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:21, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
Sorry. I felt like you were ignoring me and I got mad because I really needed your help. Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 17:25, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
Wait, let me re-do that apology.
Sorry Airship, I was getting angry because I thought you were ignoring me, I know we’re all still learning and I promise to be more patient. Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 17:31, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
Alright, I'll accept that apology Yuanmongolempiredynasty. In the future, if you need help and I am not around, you can ask questions at Wikipedia:Teahouse. In fact, that may be quicker for questions that are about editing.
To answer your original question, you can use The Horde to cite material in a "Synopsis" or "Content" section where you are detailing what the book says. For example, if you look at Lemurs of Madagascar (book), the "Content" section contains a lot of citation to the Lemurs of Madagascar book. Elsewhere in the article, though, you will want to cite third-party, independent sources. I hope that helps. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:38, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
Thank you, and again, sorry Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 18:33, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
Hi Airship! So, I’m working on the referencing section of The Horde and I’m trying to link a website to the article, but instead of taking me there, it takes me to the website’s main page. I looked at other articles to figure out how to make it go to a different part, the part that had the information, but it looked extremely complicated to do so. Could you maybe check it out or teach me how to link the two websites together? Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 18:59, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
Hi Yuanmongolempiredynasty, assuming you are talking about this link, it should be as simple as copy and pasting it. That said, I am confused why you are saying it is an "official website"—it is a review. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 19:04, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
Oops, and yes, that is the website, so copy the ENTIRE link and then paste it onto the reference section? Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 19:10, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
Yes, that should work. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 19:10, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks, and if you ever want to review the article yourself, search up on Wikipedia:
The Horde:How the Mongols Changed the World
It should come up. Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 19:13, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
Hi Airship! Airship, there is a problem, I copied and pasted it but instead of putting a link, it put the ENTIRE page on, I really need help Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 19:19, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
Not trying to be demanding, take your time Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 19:19, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
So, um, someone else deleted the link, maybe you, because it had copyright I didn’t know about. I found some more links but don’t want to link them because I don’t want to get blocked because of copyright interference. In any way could you maybe find some good links and/or review the article yourself. I think it is good to have a experienced editor review it😀 Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 19:30, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
Yuanmongolempiredynasty, do you understand what a URL is? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 19:30, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
A website? Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 19:34, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
Of the link to the website? Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 19:34, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
It is a uniform resource locator Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 19:38, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
Yes, it is how you identify pages on the internet. So to take Wikipedia as an example, the Main Page's URL is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, while my talk page's URL is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29. For this website, https://asianreviewofbooks.com is the home page, while https://asianreviewofbooks.com/content/the-horde-how-the-mongols-changed-the-world-by-marie-favereau/ is the review you want to link to. Do you understand where you went wrong now Yuanmongolempiredynasty? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 19:39, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
Yes, but if there is copyright behind the website, why should I put the link on again? Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 19:41, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
You did not link the website's URL, you copy and pasted the entire page. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 19:42, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
Oh, I thought that was what you said. Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 19:43, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
Good Morning! Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 12:05, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Hi Airship! So I’m excited to make another article and I was wondering if you had some suggestions in my field of history, or any really good ones that need updating. Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 12:10, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Hi Yuanmongolempiredynasty, the article on The Horde still needs a lot of work. You need to cite more references that aren't just to the book, you need to cite where the reviews from Frankopan and Weatherford are actually from, and you need to describe the content a lot better. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:34, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Ok, so I did a lot of work on the citations and references and I think it’s pretty good. You can review it if you want, and, if it is good, please remove the citation sign Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 21:34, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Also, I reached my 400th edit a couple minutes ago
🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 21:43, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Alright Yuanmongolempiredynasty, I'll start improving the article now. I want you to pay attention to the edits I will make and the edit summaries that come with them, okay? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:27, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Ok 👌 Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 22:31, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
I looked at most of them, and you seem to have deleted my external links, I’m assuming that you have a reason? Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 22:36, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Correction: I looked at all of them Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 22:36, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
As I said just ten minutes ago, I want you to pay attention to the edits I will make and the edit summaries that come with them, okay? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:39, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Ok, ok, I’ll ask questions later Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 23:53, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Sooooo, it looks like your done and I can ask questions and thank you? Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 20:58, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
First question, thank you for finding another reference and therefore improving the article. Secondly, is there a reason why you deleted the reference part, the part that says ‘External Links’, I’m assuming that you have a good reason, and I think it is because the links are already listed with the citations?
Thank You again!
From, Yuanmongolempiredynasty Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 21:04, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
To repeat for the third time now Yuanmongolempiredynasty, I want you to pay attention to the edits I will make and the edit summaries that come with them, okay? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 21:11, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Ok,ok,ok,ok. I thought you were done. Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 11:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
That time I mean it Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 11:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
I am done, but you apparently refuse to read one sentence. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 11:34, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
I did read the sentences, is thanking you not helping? Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 11:36, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
You have asked one question ("why did you remove the external links") twice now, Yuanmongolempiredynasty. I have repeated the same answer twice now. I have even put it in green so you can see it better, and bolded the relevant part so you actually go and look at the thing I am pointing you to. I am trying to teach you how to edit well on Wikipedia, but I cannot do so if you do not want to learn. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 11:39, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
Every day I went to the Horde to check the new edits you made, and towards the end it started to have no changes, when that happened, I thought you were done, so I asked questions. Questions are good, they help you learn in a different way. Thanking people is also nice, I’m just trying to learn and be nice. Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 11:52, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
Questions are only good if you are willing to listen to the answers. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 11:53, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
I am willing to listen to the questions, do we really have to have an argument again? The first time, I asked questions because I thought you were done, just because you have 40,000 edits and I have 400, doesn’t mean you are any better than I am. Yes, you are more experienced, but we’re all equal, new and old. I don’t think this mentorship is working out. Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 11:58, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
Like you said above to me, we treat people with respect, almost yelling at me for trying to learn and thank you is not respect Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 12:01, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
That’s why I’m leaving this mentorship, it just, didn’t go as planned or as well Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 12:03, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
As you wish. But for the record, I do not think that ignoring another person's comment on three separate occasions (you know what? let's make it four: the edit summaries I make) is respectful in the slightest. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:06, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
But I didn’t! I looked at them over and over, I thought you were done, so I thanked you and asked you ONE SINGLE question. I didn’t understand your answer. Have I ever told you that I am below 13? I’m very young to be editing Wikipedia and therefore I want to be treated like all the experienced ones, I’m just trying to be a good editor Airship. Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 12:11, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
Yes Yuanmongolempiredynasty, that you are quite young was always a little obvious. But that does not have to be a bad thing, if you are willing to learn. Let's try again one final time.
This edit here is where I deleted the "external links" section. You can see the edit summary for why I did so at the top right. My edit summary was "an external links section is not for links already cited as references". What was unclear about the way I tried to explain to you (a genuine question)? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:19, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
Ok, since I opted out of the mentorship this morning, I probably won’t get you as mentor if I opt back in, but we can still talk on your talk page, and, I know we have our differences, but I know we can work together on Wikipedia. Yuanmongolempiredynasty (talk) 20:35, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Question from Learnmathnow

A band I have been following for some time (windborne) just released an album that became the most crowdfunded vocal album ever. It also seems to be the 5th biggest album crowdfunder ever, and is getting a lot of press. I would like to go about making a page for the album or the band, and not sure what order to go about this in? --Learnmathnow (talk) 18:35, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello Learnmathnow. If you feel that the band is notable, you can create a page by clicking on the link at Draft:Windborne. Another page you may find helpful is Help:Your first article. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:25, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Question from Localgoogle

How to create a new page --Localgoogle (talk) 05:22, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello Localgoogle, you will find Help:Your first article useful. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:25, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
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