User talk:67.82.170.88

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List of fjords of the United States

If you find a source with a dead URL and it has been there awhile. Please assume that the citation was valid. See wp:KDL (keep dead links). Please consider searching for an archive. I added two archive links to List of fjords of the United States which state that the Hudson is a fjord. Thank you Adakiko (talk) 09:55, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is a local entity pushing the idea that the Hudson River is a Fjord, using a very particular definition. The URL they cited was partnered with their endeavor and has since been taken down. 67.82.170.88 (talk) 10:09, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Great! Please cite a wp:reliable source (RS) supporting that. See wp:citing sources. Thank you Adakiko (talk) 11:03, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

June 2023

Hello. This is a message to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions, such as the edit(s) you made to List of fjords of the United States, did not appear to be constructive and have been reverted. Please take some time to familiarise yourself with our policies and guidelines. You can find information about these at our welcome page which also provides further information about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. If you only meant to make test edits, please use the sandbox for that. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you may leave a message on my talk page. Thank you. Adakiko (talk) 10:28, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Adakiko. This is an idea that's being promoted. It is based on a narrow definition of Fjord promoted in 2014. The information was not adequately vetted when it was first put up. There is no real geologic substantiation for their claim. The state parks department of NY is partnered to the tune of millions of dollars to create a "Fjord Trail" along the Hudson. They have now designated the Hudson as a Fjord to attract visitors. Geologically, the Hudson was never considered a Fjord until this 2014 idea was spun. Wikipedia should not be used to promote propaganda. 67.82.170.88 (talk) 10:37, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the distinction between the Hudson as a Salt-wedge Estuary and NOT a fjord:

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/education/tutorial_estuaries/est05_circulation.html

https://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/4923.html

Perhaps this is where the confusion comes from — a citation with the idea that it is "fjord-like"

https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/hudson-river-estuary/hudson-river-valley-geological-history-landforms-and-resources/437396AB8C9F8ED509D5E2084C63B7E3

Study of tidal flow within the estuary. Fjords have very little tidal movement. They are purely salt water formations. The Hudson flows both ways for the lower 100 or so miles from NYC to Troy.

https://ny.water.usgs.gov/projects/dialer_plots/hsfmis.html 67.82.170.88 (talk) 11:18, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The additional references you pointed to to substantiate the claim that the Hudson is a Fjord are also referencing that same now non-existent page. 67.82.170.88 (talk) 10:39, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If this is a shared IP address, and you did not make the edits referred to above, consider creating an account for yourself or logging in with an existing account so that you can avoid further irrelevant notices.

Please stop your disruptive editing.

If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek consensus with them. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant noticeboards.
If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

If you continue to disrupt Wikipedia, as you did at Hudson River, you may be blocked from editing. Adakiko (talk) 10:29, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Web sites do get rearranged, updated, moved, etc. Try googling "hudson Fiver" "fjord". Here is a recent source: https://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/remediation_hudson_pdf/hrvscenicprotg.pdf Finally, over the past 100,000 years or so, the Ice Age continental glaciers advanced through the valley, carving mountains and gouging out valleys, laying down thick deposits of glacial till and re-creating the river as a fjord. Adakiko (talk) 10:36, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki's Hudson fjord citations have never been properly vetted.

Please look at the descriptions of Salt-wedge estuary vs Fjord from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/education/tutorial_estuaries/est05_circulation.html

The original citation to substantiate the claim that the Hudson River is a Fjord no longer points to an active page. I have included a page that is active from that same source stating that the Hudson is an estuary. The mention of fjord has been removed.

https://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/4923.html 67.82.170.88 (talk) 11:25, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hudson River

Content needs to be wp:verifiable. Please cite a wp:reliable source (RS) supporting that. See wp:citing sources. Thank you Adakiko (talk) 11:04, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Using Wikipedia to promote a cause

I'm gathering that you're opposed to the "Hudson Fjord Trail" project and are trying to argue about "fjord" here in order to dispute or discredit that project. Please do not use Wikipedia in that manner. A cursory web search shows that the Hudson shares characteristics of both fjords and estuaries (and rivers). Wikipedia sources are not required to be on line or to continue to be on line. While there may be a case for editing and qualification, erasing the term "fjord" will not win any arguments concerning the trail. Please stop using Wikipedia articles to support (or oppose) advocacy campaigns. Please direct your efforts to clarifying the terminology concerning the river's geology rather than rejecting information for reasons unrelated to the article's content. Acroterion (talk) 12:09, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And the article is quite clear that the river is an estuary, that occupies an ancient fjord. It does not say that the river is a fjord. There may be an argument for either removing the Hudson from the list of fjords, or for qualifying the entry, but it should be approached with clean hands, not as part of an advocacy campaign. Acroterion (talk) 12:14, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I would put it to you that the advocacy has been in the introduction of the word fjord in conjunction with the Hudson River. Check out the NOAA site (as per above)— https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/education/tutorial_estuaries/est05_circulation.html —where the Hudson is distinctly listed as an estuary and not a Fjord. Can you point me to when the idea of the Hudson being a fjord was introduced into the description? I would bet that it was added later than the entry of it being an estuary. Who introduced it into the description? That's where the advocacy begins. I'm merely trying to go back to the science of what the Hudson River actually is. 67.82.170.88 (talk) 16:30, 9 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The mis-use of Wiki as a tool for branding should be of serious concern to you. 67.82.170.88 (talk) 16:32, 9 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the description that has been used to associate (and market) the Hudson River as a fjord.

21. The Hudson as Fjord

Storm King marks the northern entrance to the Hudson Highlands, where forested mountains slope steeply into very deep water. The scenery here is reminiscent of Norway's fjords. Fjords are defined as valleys eroded well below sea level by glaciers, and then filled by the sea after the glaciers melt. They are deepest upstream of their mouths, where the erosive power of the glacier was greatest. By this definition, the Hudson qualifies as a fjord: it is deepest in the Highlands - up to 175 feet deep at West Point.

This is not science. 67.82.170.88 (talk) 17:36, 9 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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