User talk:Martinp

Note: Comments through July 2009 pseudo-archived by deleting, available in history.

I am "semi-retired" - making edits when I look something up and I think I can improve it, but little beyond that.

Martinp (talk) 13:37, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

RFA spam

Extended content
{\| class="wikitable"	Thank you for participating in WP:Requests for adminship/Kww 3

Sometimes, being turned back at the door isn't such a bad thing

|}

—Kww(talk) 18:54, 20 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Was this a mistake?

On the Flagged Revisions poll, you wrote As we grow bigger and bigger, the principle of "do no harm" absolutely has to take second place to "do no harm" ... am I reading it wrong, or did you mean to put something else in place of one of the "do no harm"s? —Soap— 02:42, 3 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, will fix. Martinp (talk) 12:29, 3 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Your comments about Brews.

Collapsed discussion from March 2010

I think you speak rationale sense there. I'd love to see some sort of a compromise. In this though people are in one side or the other, both think that the others conduct is detrimental to wikipedia. The amazing part about this is that they completely ignore this is controversial and refuse to discuss. Hopefully someone will finally take a minute think about things and ask questions or give answers god forbid. Sorry to rant on your page but you had some good insights. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 18:32, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's not that hard to find out what happened to Brews ohare: you can review the entire case in about 2-3 hours, if you skim. It begins on the speed of light talk page, where you can see Brews ohare arguing that the speed of light, which is defined to be exactly 299,xxx,xxx meters per second, cannot be a physical constant and an exact value at the same time. If you define the speed of light to be exactly 299,xxx,xxx meters per second, that means that it makes no sense to say that you measured the speed of light. This is a true and minor point, understood by every physicist, but I never thought it was too interesting or important.

But this claim raised annoyances, so they demand sources. He begins sourcing his sections, and making the explanations more verbose, until they turn into over-sourced nonsense (this happens often). The unweildy text is deleted by many editors, and he becomes irritated that the more he sources the less it is accepted (this also happens often). He explains the point patiently again and again to each editor on the talk page.

David Tombe joins in the discussions, and Tombe has some nonstandard views on physics. Basically, he sticks to late-nineteenth century physics, and does not accept anything past 1900. He also has some ideas about how the lumineferous ether works, and the lumineferous ether is no longer mainstream view. Tombe is sympathetic to this distinction, because he views the speed of light in the 19th century way--- as the speed of waves in the ether--- not in the post-relativity 20th century way as a conversion factor between units of space and time.

The arguments go on for about 3 months, filling up the talk pages with walls of text, then the ArbCom case is opened by the other editors on speed of light. The ArbCom case is against Tombe and Brews both, and one of the claims is that they are pushing fringy relativity denying views on speed of light. This is just untrue, Tombe never pushed his own views in the articles he edited, and Brews doesn't even share these views! Other editors from other pages join in, in particular from wavelength, where Brews ohare was trying to insert a very valuable discussion of carrier frequency and modulation to the page.

Brews and Tombe are accused of CIVIL violations, soapboxing, and disruption. Tombe's views on physics are brought up as evidence against him (even though there is no evidence that he ever tried to push his views on wiki). The walls of text generated on the talk pages are brought up, and the editor from Wavelength joins in to say that Brews is disruptive there too (although there Brews is 100% right). The issue looks clear to anyone who doesn't understand science: two crackpots are trying to take over some physics pages.

But this is not at all what was going on. Tombe and Brews were arguing valid (if minor) points, not crackpot points. The only disruption is that they argued and argued past the point where it was clear that the other editors weren't going to budge. But they got topic banned from physics.

Then Brews gets justifiably annoyed with this, and tried to fix the policy pages so that it wouldn't happen again. He edits WP:ESCA to support some standards for science pages. The same editors that were hounding him before went to Tsnkai and got a WP namespace ban, so he wasn't allowed to post to policy pages. The namespace ban was pushed on the pretense that Brews was violating his physics ban, which was untrue.

Then came the enforcement: Brews edited a math page which could have some physics relevance, so bang, he gets called for enforcement. The editors in this case (reasonably) conclude that math doesn't violate the physics ban. Then comes another enforcement action on god-knows-what (I forgot), and that one is let slide too.

This is where I entered. I read the original case, decided this was a travesty, noticed that several of the editors that asked to get Brews banned were no longer active, and asked the rest to undo the ban. I then went to ArbCom with an appeal that had pretty solid support. You can find the text of the appeal here.

Brews' issue on speed of light has been raised by at least 5 different editors since (including myself). It is long overdue to undo the damage of this ban, and I believe that the best thing to do is to would to restrict all editors who opposed Brews from bringing up AN/I or ArbCom complaints against others, since they have no sense of proportion.Likebox (talk) 21:11, 20 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Brews ohare appeal

This appeal failed because most assembled spent no time understanding the matter, and simply vented their irritation over even being asked to do something. Thank you for taking a more considered approach. Brews ohare (talk) 02:11, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"principle of diversification"?

In this edit you refer to the "principle of diversification" without explaining what that is. Could you

Explain what it is
Cite a reliable source; and
Link to a Wikipedia article that explains it?

Thank you. Michael Hardy (talk) 01:36, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Michael, apologies. I have only now after 3 months logged on. I notice that others have opined on this and linked my use of the term to another article - not an article I know, but in my hiberation the wisdom of crowds has kicked in. I will try to revisit as soon as I can. Martinp (talk) 03:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Paprykarz szczeciński

On 3 February 2011, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Paprykarz szczeciński, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that the Polish canned fish paste paprykarz szczeciński was inspired by an African dish? You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Materialscientist (talk) 06:02, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Barnstar

Thank you. They lost me a few times, but we got there in the end. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 10:30, 23 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A request

I saw your request. I appreciated it. I was responding, but for reasons I would prefer to share privately, that was taking some time.

I'd appreciate you contacting me via email, as there are some subtantive editorial issues I would like to ask your advice about. Unfortunately, my efforts have triggered the scrutiny of a handful of unfair wikihounders, I"d be grateful if i could have that advice outside of the scrutiny of those individuals. Geo Swan (talk) 16:24, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your note. Unfortunately, after some unpleasant interactions, I have stopped corresponding with wiki contributors by email. That is why I no longer have email enabled. However, since you have asked to do so, I'll find some way to set up a temporary email address and get back to you. Martinp (talk) 22:12, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Address martinp dot wikipedia at gmail dot com created. Please leave me a note here when you send me email, since I will not check that email box regularly. Martinp (talk) 22:44, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I'll leave a note on your talk page, telling you when that email should have arrived -- probably by noon tomorrow. Cheers! Geo Swan (talk) 22:29, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Dispute resolution survey

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RfA: thank you for your support

Martinp, thank you for your willingness to support me in my recent RfA. Your willingness to register your late-breaking support was heartening to this candidate. Warm regards, Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 15:33, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Phineas Gage "Good Article" review

Having make ten or more edits to the article on Phineas Gage, or commented on its Talk in the last two years, perhaps you will be interested in the Good Article Review currently underway. I am particularly interested in gathering broader opinion on the following comment by the reviewer: "Many sentences are much too long for easy reading and to my mind overuse complicated constructions ... I will very strongly recommend a copy edit with ease of reading in mind, breaking up complex sentences and disentwining some of the flowery language." EEng (talk) 22:43, 12 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Merry Christmas, Martin, and may your holidays be merry and bright . . . . Cheers. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 07:10, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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template

I really like your suggested template at ANI, . Please be bold. DGG ( talk ) 01:06, 19 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the encouragement, @DGG:. I'll let the discussion at ANI play out to what seems to be an inevitable no-consensus non-close, and then (assuming I have time) I'll try to do so. Martinp (talk) 13:17, 19 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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A cup of tea for you!

Thanks for supported my recent, albeit unsuccessful RfA. Your support was greatly appreciated. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:53, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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WP:THREE for Mandar Agashe

Hi, sorry to disturb. Saw your comment on the discussion but I wasn't sure if it was ok for unregistered ppl to respond on there. I had made a draft article for the subject with the WP:THREE links, but I can't find it anywhere now. These are the links I had used:

Extra ones that also seem credible as per wiki's reliable source policy:

I believe most of these were already there in the article that was undeleted after i raised the issue at deletion review, and i volunteered to add a few and expand the article and related articles as I saw fit after going down a rabbit hole on google search about the subject and connected topics. Hope i did nothing wrong contributing. You may delete all my edits if they were against wiki policies.

2405:201:1006:E03A:C011:E66A:E9B2:7EDC (talk) 21:32, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @2405:201:1006:E03A:C011:E66A:E9B2:7EDC:. Feel free to participate at the deletion discussion; it's better there than here where only I will see it. And appreciate your contributing here in general! Of the top 3 sources above (haven't looked at the rest), the 1st and 3rd seem not very independent. As the main sources for an article, and to demonstrate "notablity", wikipedia tends to look at sources which provide significant coverage (which these do!) but are also genuinely independent in their coverage of the subject. These 2 to me feel (after a quick read) like "our reporter sat down with X and here is what X said", and will be discounted on that basis. Please do go ahead and perhaps choose 2 substitute ones from your list and post to the deletion discussion! Martinp (talk) 16:40, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Martinp: Ok, thanks for the feedback. I believe these can be used as the next best sources:

There are also google book sources I found and added to the article that seem to be book versions of some magazines:

There also are books that have the subject's biographical and family data included in them (detailing his birth, family and ancestry):

Can you go ahead and post my suggestions to the discussion on my behalf? I don't want to make any mistakes like i did with my posting on deletion review (like that other user said). From my experience using wikipedia for all these years is that veteran editors are quite unwelcoming to casual readers and anonymous contributors like myself (which is apt given the standards that make wikipedia so great). But There is too much wiki editing politics involved from all the other discussions i have read all over this website and i would like to quietly stay out of it, please. Thank you for your help. 2405:201:1006:E03A:958:862E:E5FF:275A (talk) 18:42, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry, but please participate in that discussion yourself. These sources may well be sufficient, or may not, it is best if you present them yourself. You may find it easier to register an account, though it should not be a requirement to participate. This individual/topic is outside my area of expertise and I cannot judge the independence of sources, and it is inefficient for other users to be posting stuff by proxy when there should be no impediment to you participating. Martinp (talk) 16:14, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I will do as you insist. Thanks for the kind feedback and encouragement. 2405:201:1006:E03A:DC9C:8154:FAE9:3D2C (talk) 06:35, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have put the sources I have discussed here with you on the deletion discussion. Please check, thank you 2405:201:1006:E03A:DC9C:8154:FAE9:3D2C (talk) 06:52, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Happy to see that the article was kept. Thanks for all your help, I trust that wiki editors will now take care of improving the article - I'm wikilinking the article to other related pages before I take my leave. I might even take a crack at creating an article in the near future, hope I can reach out to you for help then. Thanks for everything. Bye! 2405:201:1006:E03A:C035:93BE:1C57:9BEE (talk) 22:53, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Rimsky

Thank you for your explanation for a no to a "modest" infobox. However, please consider that places of birth and death are not given because of prime importance, but because they a standard information at the start of any biography. We have a recent discussion resulting in also "parking" post-nominals in the infobox rather than the lead. The lead should be free from that clutter (often long when historic places and political situations are involved). It looks like reasonable job sharing to me. What do you think? -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:50, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the note, @Gerda Arendt. Reasonable job sharing? I'll go as far as "not unreasonable", for sure. I was not part of the discussion you're referring to, so am reacting based on my personal opinion only. Which is that standard information can be (or should be) rather short, and so the clutter should not be overwhelming whether in the lede or in a box to the right. Once it starts feeling like clutter, it probably belongs in prose lower down, with context, instead. So if I look at the Mozart example, for instance, I don't really see the point of repeating of birth street address, spouse name, parental names etc from the Life and Career section "above the fold" either way, lede or infobox. (Arguably Leopold yes, since in this specific situation his influence on--some would say exploitation of--young Wolfgang was so integral to W's development that editorial judgment might feel it deserves a mention in the lede anyway.) Then there's the Works and Relatives sections which are just gratuitous duplicative links. And a signature, which is not objectionable, but feels barely encyclopaedic in general and certainly (to me) not worth top-of-article placement, infobox or not. So strip that out, and you have dates and places (city names) of birth and death, which would hardly make for additional clutter in the lede. That all said, I am but one voice of many and I respect consensus - which means I don't object to settled practice on Mozart and others. Since opinion was solicited, I think a modest infobox for R-K is not unreasonable (though I'm not personally keen on it). A long one is not appropriate: I think on the latter we agree! Martinp (talk) 21:07, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for a reasoned detailed response! I have little time (see my talk, perhaps just click on music: between celebration and loss of a dear friend, travelling right now and behind with many things such as updating three biographies of people who recently died), so just briefly: I argued - in 2012 - against an infobox for Samuel Barber because of redundancy, but was "converted" in that same short discussion. I go with Voceditenore who changed the guidelines for Project Opera in 2018. That's where I come from. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:28, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, I didn't mention Sibelius and Beethoven "random". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:47, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]