Template talk:Certification Table Entry

New Zealand changes

There are links to the new site which is Aotearoa Music Charts regarding charts and singles instead of NZ Music Charts for certifications. https://aotearoamusiccharts.co.nz/charts/singles; https://aotearoamusiccharts.co.nz/charts/albums (Example: https://aotearoamusiccharts.co.nz/archive/singles/2024-11-01; https://aotearoamusiccharts.co.nz/archive/albums/2024-11-01FireDragonValo (talk) 20:24, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Indeed, all the citations we have are not working. In many cases an archived version is available, so we could use a bot going after them if I add support for |archive-url= and |archive-date=, but the Wayback Machine is having difficulties right now. We can support the new website by either introducing a new parameter (|chart-id=?) or introducing a new value for |source=. Pinging Ss112 who uses this often, and of course, welcoming any input. Muhandes (talk) 16:37, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Actually, this discussion belongs in Template talk:Cite certification, but since we started here I'll continue here. I quickly implemented one solution, which you can see in the sandbox version and testcases. Basically it adds the following:

• If |source= is not specified (or |source=oldchart), |archive-url= and |archive-date= can be specified to use Wayback Machine. For example: {{Cite certification/sandbox|region=New Zealand|type=album|id=3467|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240713231341/https://nztop40.co.nz/chart/albums?chart=3467|archive-date=2024-07-13}} creates "New Zealand album certifications". Recorded Music NZ. Archived from the original on 2024-07-13.. Supposedly a bot can be used to populate these fields.
• If |source= is not specified (or |source=oldchart) and |archive-url=/|archive-date= are not specified (which is where all older citations will end), the result is a warning message and the page is categorized for bot or human correction. For example: {{Cite certification/sandbox|region=New Zealand|type=album|id=3467}} creates "New Zealand album certifications". Recorded Music NZ.. Note that, conveniently, if you edit and preview this page, you get a link to this page which lets you see which archive is available.
• If |source=newchart, |id= can be specified in date format to reach the new charts. For example: {{Cite certification/sandbox|region=New Zealand|source=newchart|type=album|id=1991-08-11}} creates "New Zealand album certifications". Recorded Music NZ.

Let me know what you think. --Muhandes (talk) 18:38, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

There are also links to their New Zealand singles and albums. Let me know what you think? (Examples: https://aotearoamusiccharts.co.nz/charts/catalogue-singles; https://aotearoamusiccharts.co.nz/charts/catalogue-albums) FireDragonValo (talk) 20:32, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

@FireDragonValo: if you are planning to use the catalogue chart extensively, we can add it as |source=catalogchart, but this is something to do after we fix all the rest. I am still looking for input about that. Muhandes (talk) 21:34, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Great. Thank you. FireDragonValo (talk) 19:29, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Since no one bothered to comment on this, and I am naive enough to think over 3,500 dead links (Category:Cite certification used for New Zealand with missing archive (0)) bother someone, I went ahead and made the changes above. Pinging FireDragonValo and Ss112 FWIW. I will seek bot assistance in automatically fixing these citations.

Let me know if there any problems. Otherwise, this is  Done. Muhandes (talk) 13:39, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

@Muhandes Could you add support for |archive-url=/|archive-date= for the new website as well? For example: "Espresso" has an archived link to the new website, but the live link is rendered as https://nztop40.co.nz/chart/singles?chart=2024-11-22 since |source=newchart is not specified, which leads to the wrong chart archive. It might even be preferrable to make |archive-url=/|archive-date= required for the new website as currently certifications seem to get reverted to the previous one once a new chart is published (https://aotearoamusiccharts.co.nz/archive/singles/2024-11-22 now shows "Espresso" with a double platinum certification rather than triple platinum like the archived link and the current chart). ThedancingMOONpolice (talk) 03:30, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

@ThedancingMOONpolice: I still hope these are growing pains and the website will stop doing that. Did you try communicating with the Official Aotearoa Music Charts and asking them why they do that? Muhandes (talk) 15:47, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

I have reached out to them about this matter through their contact email, but didn't receive a response. ThedancingMOONpolice (talk) 21:44, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Wanted to add on that the New Zealand Certifications are now available in the Radioscope website, (https://www.radioscope.co.nz/2024/00/00/single-cert-search/) for Singles and (https://www.radioscope.co.nz/2024/00/00/album-cert-search/) for Albums. I suggest a new template for it, but the only issue is that manual entry is required in the website.I have edited Toxic using the Radioscope link. @Muhandes @ThedancingMOONpolice@FireDragonValo Kneetoks (talk) 17:21, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Looks like certifications go as far back as 2005 for singles and 2013 for albums. The database search could be implemented into the current template as the option without |id= or |source= parameters specified. ThedancingMOONpolice (talk) 18:59, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

@ThedancingMOONpolice: I'm not entirely sure what you mean by |id=. How would it be applicable in this case? I understand |source=rasioscope. Other than that, It seems like the only important thing is to provide a |type= to select between the two URLs and a |title= for the manual search. For example, {{Cite certification/sandbox|region=New Zealand|source=radioscope|type=album|title=Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap}} creates the citation "New Zealand album certifications – Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap". Radioscope. Type Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap in the "Search:" field.. Am I missing something? Muhandes (talk) 12:52, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

@Muhandes I meant that if neither parameter is provided, the template could default to using this source rather than displaying the current error message of the chart number needing to be provided for the certification. It would be similar to the Spanish certifications that default to the database search when |id= or |certweek= aren't specified, but in this case it would be |id= or |source=. ThedancingMOONpolice (talk) 15:10, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

@ThedancingMOONpolice: I don't like the idea of changing the default that easily. I think we should first see how well this source is maintained before making it the default. --Muhandes (talk) 17:44, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Fair enough. I would just like to point out that the search box auto-filters the results while typing the term, so pressing Enter wouldn't be required. Otherwise, the current implementation in the sandbox works for me. ThedancingMOONpolice (talk) 17:57, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

@ThedancingMOONpolice: That's a good point. I removed the text about pressing enter. This is now  Done again. Muhandes (talk) 09:16, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Also pinging Kneetoks, GustavoCza, FireDragonValo, Newpicarchive to let them know this option is now available. --Muhandes (talk) 10:54, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Got it, thanks Muhandes Kneetoks (talk) 10:57, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Just fixed the references for Coldplay's pages. Thank you for the notice. GustavoCza (talk • contribs) 18:03, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Also pinging other editors who used this source often Carlosmarkos2345, TheWikiholic, Felipeedit, Goodnightgotham. Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

PMB certifications levels

Moved from User talk:Muhandes § PMB certifications levels

 – Muhandes (talk) 13:01, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi, I hope you're doing well. Could you please clarify whether the PMB applies its new/recent certification levels to all titles, regardless of their release dates, or are they still based on the release year? TheWikiholic (talk) 14:05, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

@TheWikiholic PMB (Brazil) uses release date. If it was done this way, I assume there were reliable sources that said so. The sources we used are listed here. If you think the sources were misunderstood or you have contradicting evidence, start discussion at Template talk:Certification Table Entry. Muhandes (talk) 14:15, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

I contacted PMB to inquire about their certification process, specifically whether sales prior to 1990 are included. They replied:

"A Pro-Música Brasil anteriormente se chamava ABPD - Associação Brasileira dos Produtores de Discos, e foi fundada em 1958."

"As vendas são contabilizadas desde o lançamento do produto."

"Sim, por exemplo, recentemente houve a certificação deste álbum do artista Roberto Carlos, que foi lançado em 1967."

But Roberto Carlos' 1981 self-titled album is certified 12× Diamond, implying sales of 12 million units based on its release year. Do you think it's possible for an album to sell 12 million units in Brazil?. — TheWikiholic (talk) 05:45, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

I don't know. The response only says that it includes sales from the release date, it says nothing about the amount certified. What do the other sources say? With your permission, can this discussion be moved to the correct place? I doubt anyone who cares will see it on my talk page. Muhandes (talk) 07:52, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

"Ok, let's move the discussion to the appropriate place. Maybe other editors can shed some light on it." TheWikiholic (talk) 13:00, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

@Markus WikiEditor: As they are knowledgeable about the Brazilian music market. Erick (talk) 18:54, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

I have the same question. I considered several possibilities, including whether this album has a Spanish version and if sales from other countries are being included, as they do in South Korea, but I eventually ruled that out. In Roberto Carlos's discography article, there was a link stating that the album had sold 2 million copies by 1981. I reached out to Pro-Música Brasil via Instagram and Twitter to ask about it, but unfortunately, they never respond to me. Markus WikiEditor (talk) 19:07, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

I have asked two more questions to the PMB.

"Desculpe incomodar. Você pode esclarecer se aplica seus novos/recentes níveis de certificação a todos os títulos, independentemente das datas de lançamento, ou se ainda é baseado no ano de lançamento?"

"E de acordo com o banco de dados da Pro-Música Brasil, Roberto Carlos (1981) foi certificado 12 vezes Diamante. Isso equivale a 12 milhões de unidades?"

They gave me two screenshots of the current certification levels for both singles and albums and wrote that S"treams de áudio equivalentes Diamante 1x = 600.000.000, Diamante 12x = 600.000.000 x 12 = 7.200.000.000."

Isn't it clear now that they are applying certification levels based on the certification date?— TheWikiholic (talk) 00:05, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Swiss certification levels

I implemented a change in Swiss single certification levels per source. This was pointed out by Newpicarchive in an edit summary here. In the future, please request changes here. The purpose of |salesamount= is to list pure sales from a reliable source, not to overload the sales amount by the certification.
Note that singles released in 2023 now require |relmonth= to show the correct sales amount and will show zero sales otherwise. Such singles will show up in Category:Pages using Certification Table Entry-Sales with missing information (0). Muhandes (talk) 17:17, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Coldplay's "Paradise"

Moved from User talk:Muhandes § Coldplay's "Paradise"

 – Muhandes (talk) 08:04, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

The song was certified Platinum in Germany after they changed the thresholds, meaning its certification is for 300,000 units, not 600,000. How do we reflect this on the template without using the "Salesamount" parameter? GustavoCza (talk • contribs) 17:28, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

@GustavoCza: Germany certification level go by the release year (|relyear=). The single shows the correct certification amount for a single released in 2011. Muhandes (talk) 17:32, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

How come the template for "Yellow" show 600,000 units instead of 500,000 then? GustavoCza (talk • contribs) 18:21, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

@GustavoCza: This is because in 2024 Germany changed the certification rules and started following the certification date. Muhandes (talk) 18:38, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Both the English and German pages for Bundesverband Musikindustrie state the certification rules were changed in July 2023, while Paradise got certified in December 2023. I know we shouldn't use Wikipedia as a source for discussion, but I don't know where else to find this type of information in precise manner. GustavoCza (talk • contribs) 18:42, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

@GustavoCza: The change was implemented in this edit from June 2024, following this discussion and information provided by Lk95 from a correspondence by a German Wikipedia editor with a BVMI employee. I don't speak German so I take their word for it. Muhandes (talk) 19:51, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

I gave a quick look at the discussion and thanks to Google I've been able to find the certification for "Paradise" on the "musikindustrie.de" domain. The song moved 600,000 units according to the file I found. GustavoCza (talk • contribs) 20:09, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

@GustavoCza: Since this document is from December 2023, maybe they made the change on December 2023 rather than January 2024. I don't know, and as you probably already realized, I don't make these decisions; I follow the consensus. Would you mind if I move this discussion to Template talk:Certification Table Entry so other editors can take part in the discussion? Muhandes (talk) 20:44, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Not at all! The more accurate the certifications template gets, the better. GustavoCza (talk • contribs) 21:04, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

@GustavoCza: Discussion moved.Looking at the source again, some singles (like "Paradise") use 300,000 units for gold, aligning with the certification date theory, while others (like "Shut Up") use 150,000, which corresponds to the release date theory. There might be a simple explanation for this discrepancy, but I haven’t found one. Perhaps using |salesamount= and |salesref= against their intended purpose in this specific case could be an acceptable compromise. While I still have concerns about setting a precedent for using these parameters for certifications, if there is consensus to allow this deviation, it could work for the very limited number of affected articles. Muhandes (talk) 08:23, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Alignment of notes in the bottom

Moved from Template talk:Certification Table Entry/Archive 11 § Alignment of notes in the bottom

 – Muhandes (talk) 11:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

{{Certification Table Bottom}} collects the footnote-refs for the table entries in a table-cell that is the full width of the table. It centers each of the lines within the cell. That makes it hard to track visually, since the primary way to read it is to find the line that starts with a certain symbol. This is also out-of-sync with ref-lists in other contexts, that are all left-aligned. It's a long-term problem that WP doesn't have a site-wide template or other standard formatting style for table footnotes. Given it's hard-coded here, can we change the formatting here to improve usability and get in sync with others? DMacks (talk) 22:30, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

@DMacks: It should be quite easy to edit {{Certification Table Bottom}} to this effect. I've added the task to my TDL but I am not expecting to be free for the next two weeks. Muhandes (talk) 16:31, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

@DMacks:I revived this subject from the archive since it was on my to-do list, but I hadn’t been able to address it earlier due to health reasons (which are ongoing, but I’m able to edit now). If this is still of interest, could you provide an example of a left-aligned reference list in a different context—other than the reference and notes sections at the bottom of articles? Does anyone else find this idea appealing? Muhandes (talk) 11:59, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

NVPI certs

Lately, the link for NVPI certifications has been changed again (see here), and from now on, you need to select the year to search for requested certifications (there is no longer the option "alle jaargangen" - all the years).

About discography articles featuring Dutch certs, I would like to know if could have some way to search these ones without insert a year, due to be hard-working to guess this one when an album or song were certified. LuanCampSouza93 (talk) 16:33, 19 December 2024 (UTC)