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Archive 1

Early Inspirations

I don't know where this information was gathered about Wolf3D being based off of Ultima Underworld technology, but Wolfenstein's technology was an upgraded technology of that of SoftDisk (Gamer's Edge division) Technologies' Catacomb 3D which was designed by John Romero, John Carmack, Adrian Carmack, Tom Hall, Jason Blochowiak, and Bobby Prince. The engine used in Catacomb 3D was essentially the same as that which was used in Wolfenstein 3D, only in EGA. However as one will see with the Wolfenstein 3D Alpha which has been available on the 'net for a few years, the original Wolfenstein 3D was originally based around an EGA engine as well (Many sprites in the game are still using an EGA palette), likely the very same Catacomb 3D Engine.

This is not referring to the later game entitled Catacomb Abyss which followed Wolfenstein 3D and was developed by a separate team, but the original Catacomb 3D (first released in 1991, then 1992 and a separate re-release named Catacomb 3D: The Descent later).

The article doesn't say Wolf3D was based on Underworld technology, but inspired by it. Apparently John Carmack saw a demo of Underworld at some trade show (CES or something) and then was inspired to write his own engine which lead to Catacomb first and Wolf later. See this article [1] for some information. TerokNor 21:41, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Article name

The hyphen is part of the game's name, so it's really Wolfenstein 3-D, source

Yes, I agree. It should be moved there. Teklund 17:23, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
It should be there: the game itself has a hyphen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8o0a5ntxfc — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.20.68.185 (talk) 05:56, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
That may be, but 3DR is only a publisher in this case, whereas id is the developer, and they seem to have since dropped the dash in 3-D. Actually I'm not sure if they ever intended there to be a dash... Either way, I see both used, so I'm not sure (yet) the article should be moved. Retodon8 20:44, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
General use seems to be '3D' rather than '3-D', I'd be tempted to leave the article where it is. Cpc464 12:06, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
It's "3D" on id Software's website, as well. Fredrik | talk 13:20, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
Star Wars IV is on Wikipedia as Star Wars (film), not Star Wars: Episode IV – A New Hope. So I think the original name of the game should be used: Wolfenstein 3-D. Also, two earlier id Software games are listed as Hovertank 3D and Catacomb 3-D. It's not consistent. Calvero2 (talk) 20:27, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
Id wasn't consistent, either across games or in one game, but 3D is the common usage. Also, this comment thread was 17 years old. --PresN 21:13, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

Historical accuracy & mythology

I think it would be interesting to read something about the connection between the game and real Nazi activity. Is Castle Wolfenstein inspired by some real Nazi fortification? Does the game plot contain any details, characters and so on from the historical world? It would also be interesting to read more about the "mythology" of the games. Who are the bosses? What happens in the different episodes? --62.181.79.151 11:13, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

As the article mentions, the game was inspired by the game Castle Wolfenstein for the Apple II, not by any real-world fortification. AAMOF, many of the levels were--when viewed from top-down--just fanciful designs. As for more details, we'll just have to wait for some more Wolf 3D fanatics to read the article. :-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 14:44, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)
The designs were spectacularly fanciful - as the article mentions, E3M10 was a direct model of PacMan; E2M5, E3M8 and E6M3 both heavily featured swastikas in their maps (particularly E6M3, built almost entirely of tesselated swastikas!); while other levels like E5M4 exhibited a remarkable and unexpected symmetry.
That said, no discussion of Wolfenstein is complete without mentioning that the boss of Episode 3 ("Die, Fuhrer, Die!") is none other than Adolf Hitler himself... ;-) Kinitawowi 12:51, Aug 5, 2004 (UTC)
"The, Leader, The" is very bad grammar. -Sean Curtin 21:57, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I hope you'rs joking, it's supposed to be "Die" as in death. Or also a pun to be translated as "The Leader, die!" It's definatly not "The leader the".... 05:38, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)
It's a joke reference to the Simpsons; Sideshow Bob has a tattoo which reads "Die Bart, Die!", which he claims is German for "The Bart, The". Kinitawowi 11:59, Feb 2, 2005 (UTC)
Which both in Hitler's and Sideshow Bob's case (correctly pointed out here) is nonsense, because the correct German article for Hitler and Bart would be "Der", not "Die". But didn't the Wolfenstein level pre-date the Simpsons episode? Christian Rödel
It really is unlikely id got the joke from The Simpsons, even if possible chronologically! Plus what Christian Rödel said, so no. :) Retodon8 20:44, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Acually, no it's just mixed German and English. "Die" (english) "Fuirer" (german) "Die" (english) - I'd expect some people actually said things like that sometime around world war II --Nerd42 17:06, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

You're exactly right, it's a mix of German and English. Any attempt at complete direct translation into German would be a lost cause, since it was in fact merely a mix of the two languages, which I might mention was not uncommon throughout the course of the game. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.205.199.190 (talk) 06:20, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it's quite simple: "Stirb Fuehrer, stirb!"(german) or "Die leader, die!"(english). 88.68.218.232 (talk) 00:51, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

SNES Port

The article states "Three new weapons and a score system were added as well" in regards to the SNES port. I'm pretty sure the original PC version featured a scoring system, and the player collected gold to get points. Someone please confirm this?

Also, I think the article should discuss other ports a little more (like the GBA port, which appears very faithful... but has no music). Some guy 21:11, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Map overviews

A bit off the topic, but where can map overviews be found for Wolf 3D? I have searched all over and have not been able to locate them. Maybe a link for that could go in the article. Cheers.

Are you talking about graphical maps to the different levels? If so, a simple 10 second Google for "Wolfenstein 3D" and using the "Images" tab got me: http://www.belowe.com/wolf3d.htm There may be more suitable versions; these seem to be simple screenshots from within a map editor. Retodon8 13:26, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Duke Nukem?

User:203.84.186.62 added that a secret level contained Duke Nukem. Does anyone know which level that would be? I have never heard of it. If no one can confirm this, I will delete it. TerokNor 16:16, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Well, if you ask me, it was some sort of joke, or maybe that person thought... I don't know, maybe Hans Grosse was Duke Nukem or something. It would have to a be a pre-DN3D Duke Nukem too of course. I was pretty familiar with the game, the levels, the textures used; I was playing around with Bill Kirby's MapEdit back then, and no Duke Nukem. I'll not delete it, just in case I'm wrong, but I sincerely doubt it. Retodon8 22:33, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

OK, I'll delete it then. If anyone can prove it's true, they can just add it back. TerokNor 17:57, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

The Nintendo 64 version of Duke Nukem contains a multiplayer level called Wolfenstein.

Eh, no it doesn't. It's called 'Castle Dukenstein', and it's supposed to be like Dr Frankenstein's castle. Razstar 14:35, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Wolfenstein 4D

Someone recently wrote about this in the article. Can someone find a source?--Drat (Talk) 07:02, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I doubt that this is correct. The contribution says that Distinctive Software was involved, but in 1992 (when the development would have happened), Distinctive Software was already EA Canada. TerokNor 10:53, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

The German press called the game often Hundefelsen 4D to avoid any problems because you all know the game is banned in Germany.

complete sprite sheet?

Anybody know where I can get complete sprite sheets for the original graphics? --Nerd42 02:18, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

You can easyly rip it from the game using any editor from any of the related sites (which may even have the full game for downlad). 200.230.213.152 05:19, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Boss strategies.

Are they really needed? Wikipedia is not a game guide/strategy guide.--Drat (Talk) 03:21, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Technical implementation

Other games using the Wolfenstein 3D game engine or developments of it were also produced, including, Blake Stone, Corridor 7, Operation Body Count, Super Noah's Ark 3D, Rise of the Triad, Shadowcaster and Hellraiser.::

I can find no supporting reference to a Hellraiser game using the Wolf3D engine, and several sites state that Shadowcaster uses an early Doom engine.

About Hellraiser: search harder, like here: http://www.planetnintendo.com/thewarpzone/hellraiser.html Calvero2 15:53, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Etymology

Is the word coinage of Wolfenstein supposed to be a portmanteau of Wolf and frankenstein since the guard dogs look like wolves and that the stronghold is similar to Frankenstein? (unsigned comment from anon)

No, definately not. Wolf 3D is partly based on a game released in 1984 called Castle Wolfenstein and its sequel, Beyond Castle Wolfenstein. I believe the id guys actually snapped up the rights to the original games so that they could use the name.--Drat (Talk) 13:14, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
Actually, they didn't "snatch up the rights." John Carmack asked for permission from the original authors and they readily gave it. The Apple II was long dead by then. — Frecklefoot | Talk 21:19, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
Even if the etymology does not come from the guard dogs, is "Wolfenstein" a pun on Frankenstein?
Most unlikely.--Drat (Talk) 02:11, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
A friend of mine who speaks fluent Deutsch said it meant something like wolf's rock. I think the name came from some castle's name somewhere there, dunno? 200.230.213.152 23:09, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfenstein - In real life, Wolfenstein can be a dude, a rock formation or some village. I think in the end it could have been made to sound like the name of some castle in germany. Many castles in germany end on "-stein" (rock, stone).
They probably picked '-stein' specifically to allude to Frankenstein, especially since the mutant soldiers featured later on in the game essentially look just like Frankenstein's monster (albeit, with a third arm grafted to the chest). The fact that German castles frequently end in 'stein' only suits it better. Either that, or they went with the Boris Karloff's Frankenstein's monster design after they had already settled on the name, specifically because of that connection. I refuse to believe this is all coincidence lol 64.56.246.106 (talk) 02:47, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
As I wrote above over two years ago, the game is partly based on the old Castle Wolfenstein game from 1984, which had nothing to do with mutant supersoldiers.--Drat (Talk) 03:21, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

PC-13

I've added ID's own PC-13 rating to the infothingy. While i know ID "invented" the PC-13 system, i do not know the specifics. Could someone who does please add them to the article somewhere? -- De Zeurkous (root@lichee.nichten.info), Sun Jun 4 18:17:42 UTC 2006

BJ Blazkowicz Gif

Screen captured the frames of BJ at the level end summary screen in the PC version. Rendered on Macromedia Fireworks and uploaded to page. -- Hnatiw , Wed June 21 2006

Who's Under Fake Hitler?

It would seem that Fake Hitler has more than a flame thrower under that robe. The sprite seems to have another person underneath it. Does anyone have any idea who's under there?

The fact they crumple to the floor in the way they do suggests otherwise. But to write anything regarding this in the article would be original research, without a reliable source.--Drat (Talk) 06:20, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I would hazard a guess that it's a cameo appearance by one of the game's designers, much like the head included in the last level of DOOM. But then, I have only my own experience to base this on :)
The enemies in Wolfenstein are drawn, not digitized from people or clay models.--Drat (Talk)
The face sprite is identical to the standard wolfenstein soldier. Whether or not they are Wermacht (or whatever branch the soldiers originate from) or some elite soldier I have no idea. HoundofBaskersville (talk) 05:57, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Was Quake the first real 3D FPS?

Hi!

I am not a programming nor a computer game expert, so I could be wrong, but I think Quake wasn't the first real 3D FPS. At the entry of Descent it states that it was released 1 year before Quake. I played both games and in Descent there is no limits of turning and moving, and I didn't see any cheating in graphics, so I think it had to be real 3D.

Technically, Descent is not a traditional 3D engine. While quake has brushes that makes up its floors, ceilings, and et cetera, whereas Descent uses a portal engine, which really is just a series of tunnels in space. While you're making the boundaries in Quake, you're making the space between the boundaries in Descent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.192.34.190 (talk) 22:05, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

MODing

Ain't Wolf3d mods an important view on the game that should be covered in the article? Since it's source code release, it has spin-off'd many fan created mods and tcs and stuff... And kind of brought the game to life again... 200.230.213.152 05:33, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Title music / Mac version

Article states ...the Horst-Wessel-Lied as theme music.... I assume the title music is meant; the game is full of mediocre little melodies but the title music is the only one with any distinction. But does this indeed share the melody of the Horst-Wessel-Lied?

I have the game -- Mac OS 9 version. I've played it often enough to be able to hum the tune at will. I've just now listened to it again, along with an MP3 of a perfectly straightforward performance of the Horst Wessel. They just don't seem alike.

For one, HW is in a major key -- a happy song if you can imagine happy storm troopers marching through the streets. Wolf is in a minor key and, to my ear, far more persuasive; if the Nazis had had id's music guy working for them they might have won the war. Arrangement aside, one does not even seem to be a straightforward transposition of the other.

Can anyone explain this? John Reid ° 13:41, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure about the Mac version, but I can tell about the PC original version. There is one song that plays from the loading screen, through the PG-13 screen, to the "Wolfenstein 3-D" screen. When you press enter, the main menu ("Options") appears, and another music song there. The first song is a happy, major key melody, that is exactly the Horst-Wessel-Lied. The second song (in the main menu) is a minor key song, which is the song I associate most with Wolfenstein (you can listen to a MIDI file of the second song I'm refering to here). I've seen this second song called "Wondering About My Loved Ones", btw. Anyway, I've seen both songs called the "theme music" from Wolfenstein 3-D, and as the Horst-Wessel-Lied appears during the title screen, it could be called the theme music. Maybe in the Mac version only the second song plays all the time... but I can assure you the Horst-Wessel-Lied is in fact played in the game, and can be considered the theme music.Sega381 05:29, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

How very, very interesting! The MIDI is completely unfamiliar to me. On my Mac, Wolf boots right up and goes straight into this intense, apocalyptic orchestration; I wonder if I should scrape it and put it up somewhere (for educational purposes only). Perhaps by the time MacPlay ported, id had already been through the Konfrontation with German law and decided to compose something better than Horst Wessel. John Reid ° 15:32, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

This webpage lists some of the changes betwen the Mac and PC versions of Wolfenstein-3D, including the music. The Mac version was ported from the Jaguar version, which was ported from the SNES version, where the song was dropped.Sega381 21:41, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmm. Yes well, that explains the song, as I thought. However, in my Mac version, a lot of Nazi elements were restored; the SNES version doesn't read anything like what I've got on my desktop. Mine has Hitlers on all the walls, floors in the shape of swastikas, dogs, and plenty of blood. One real shortcoming is that all my sprites have only one side -- the front; there is no sneaking up on a guard. John Reid ° 23:06, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

The Nazi and gore elements were only censored in the SNES version; they were probably restored in the Jaguar one, and therefore also in the Mac port, even though it is not mentioned in that page. Apparently, the song stayed cut in all three versions, though.Sega381 00:18, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Which leaves the question: What is that catchy tune? If you haven't heard it, you have no idea. If I hear a band marching down the street with that rolling out, I hide under my bed. John Reid ° 03:25, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

If you could find it online or put a sample MIDI, I could check if it is related to any of the other songs from the PC version of the game. However, it sounds like a pretty well-done song; my guess would be that they made it specially for one of the ports.Sega381 13:59, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to know if id invaded Lithuania with it. John Reid ° 14:13, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

There is also a second rendition of Die Fahne Hoch in the game, which is used as background music for a select few levels (the easiest to access is the first level of the second episode) in which it is deliberately played in a minor key. A# Minor specifically, at least according to the author of this YouTube clip in which you can listen to it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E06_V4NUqAI
Here, Bobby Prince takes this little piece of fanfare and associates it with the darker themes he feels are more appropriate for a song about Nazism. D Boland (talk) 02:57, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

No in-game screenshots?

I'm surprised to see that this article didn't include even any in-game screenshot of actual gameplay. I hope nobody minds, but I've added two screenshots illustrating the original DOS version of the game and one showing the 3DO version. However, it does look a bit like the article is a little over-saturated with images as of now. Perhaps this would be good place to discuss if any should be removed? MarphyBlack 01:49, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I think the in-game shots are very important, so it's ok for them to be there. The Bosses images, nice as they may be, I'm not sure are really needed; and the "Aardwolf" one could probably go too. If we had to take some pictures out, I'd vote on those.Sega381 03:50, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
While I agree that the boss images could go as their inclusion probably isn't entirely all that encyclopedic, I think that the article would end up looking just a little too bare should they be removed. I completely agree that the Aardwolf sprite could taken out with no loss, but I also believe that the animated B.J. pic in the storyline section could be removed as well. It's a bit redundant seeing as B.J. is already depicted in both the box art and the title screen, both which are placed not too far above the animated B.J. pic, and I'm pretty sure that animated gifs are discouraged here in general (I don't see any real benefit from this particular image being animated, at least). I believe that removing just those two would space out the existing images just a bit, making the article look less crowded for now. MarphyBlack 04:00, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Very well, I agree with that.Sega381 12:05, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Done!Sega381 12:08, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Aspect ratio correction of images

I'm going to correct the dimensions of the screenshots and boss images.... from 128x128 -> 128x160 and 320x200 -> 320x240. Then they have a 1:1 pixel aspect ratio (basically I'll be making it taller - that's how it actually is when full screen) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.173.178.218 (talk) 11:08, 17 December 2006 (UTC). Zephyr103

I would highly disagree with such a change. Although this is the aspect ratio in which the game is supposed to be displayed, this is not representative of the resolutions that the sprites were drawn at and not representative of the resolution that the screenshots were actually taken in. Despite the aspect ratio being different, the screen is still displaying the same amount of pixels (stretched vertically, as you said). Resizing the images manually through external methods will not accurately depict the quality of the game (it certainly depends on the kind of resampling that's done, i.e. nearest neighbor, bilinear, etc, but regardless, none will be accurate). Resizing will merely distort the images. To put it simply, it's not possible to 100% accurately represent what the games look in-game due to the slightly altered aspect ratio, but, I feel that it does the game far more justice to depict the screenshots and the graphics in their original drawn resolutions rather than try to artificially represent the "correct" aspect ratio.
And for the record, the 3DO image is displayed at the proper ratio. The screen is letterboxed slightly, so I just cropped off the black upper and bottom portions of the normally 320x240 screen. MarphyBlack 11:30, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, now that I see the images, I guess they really don't look bad at all. (I guess I've just had bad experiences with resizing images. Huh.) Still looks a little strange to me, or at least the boss sprites do. MarphyBlack 11:43, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
I reverted the 3DO image. BTW, those images actually have noise/grain and an outline if you look really closely (you'd have to look even harder to see the distortion) BTW, those enemies are normally distorted even more in the game. (they are rarely exactly 2.00x, etc, their original size) I agree that it looks a bit strange, but if you play it at 320x200 it looks right. Zephyr103 11:50, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Hmmm... it seems that the height should be x1.2 so for 128x128 it should go to 128x153.6... I'm going to upload non-noisy versions at 128x154. I was thinking about adding animated versions but maybe that is unnecessary. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zephyr103 (talk • contribs) 00:14, 18 December 2006 (UTC).

version comparisons

I'll expand this in the future...

http://members.chello.at/theodor.lauppert/games/wolf3d.htm

Feature PC Acorn/Archimedes Gameboy Advance Apple IIGS SNES Atari Jaguar Macintosh 3DO
Flamethrower & Bazooka ? x x x ??
Released 1992 1994 2002 1999? 1993/94? 1994 1994 1995
Wall Resolution 64x64 64x64?? 64x64 64x64?? 32x32 128x128 128x128 128x128
Object Resolution 64x64 64x64?? 64x64 64x64?? 64x64 128x128 128x128 128x128
Music x x x x x x x
Directional/3D Enemies/8 views x x x x
New Graphics ? ? some also includes some Doom weapons x x
Score/Level/Lives x x x x x x x

I'll make better screenshots in the future... e.g. of special weapons, rats, etc. Zephyr103 10:51, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

The Jaguar shot taken in an emulator (Project Tempest, is it? It's the only Jaguar emulator I know of that can emulate Wolf 3D mostly properly) is not at the correct aspect ratio due to a known bug in the program. However, I'm not exactly positive of what is not being rendered correctly. Obviously the image is far too narrow than it should be, but I'm not sure if part of the screen is simply being covered by a black bar (Meaning only about 80% of the screen is visible), or if the image needs to be stretched horizontally. MobyGames and this place have screenshots of the game running on normal hardware showing how the game should look, but I can't quite pinpoint the exact difference between how the emulator renders the game and how the Jaguar actually displays it. (If the image needs to be stretched horizontally, then it's a simple matter of editing your existing picture. If not, then the emulator is actually blocking part of the visible screen.) MarphyBlack 09:44, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Enemy quotes

The reason I removed the quotes is that they are not encyclopedically necessary, and amount to little more than trivia at best and gamecruft at worst. Unless a good reason can be given besides the fact that they are distinctive traits of each character (an argument which could be made for the grunts and roars of monsters in thousands of games), I'll remove them again in a week.--Drat (Talk) 04:12, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Unlike the grunts and growls of monsters from other games, as you have mentioned, the alert and death cries of the enemies in Wolf 3D can in fact be transcribed in written form since they are speaking legible words. This alone would make including the enemies' quotes only practical in very few cases, and therefore not necessarily an argument which could be made for "thousands of games". Also relevant is the fact that since the enemies are speaking German (albeit in a slightly broken form), the translations of these lines are providing something relatively useful to the reader (and if verifiability is an issue, this information can be easily sourced from the Apogee FAQ or from the game's official hint manual).
Aside from all that, Wolf 3D is one of the first, if not the first, first person shooter to implement digitized voices. Unlike previous efforts in games of other genres, like say Sinistar for example, where digitized voices are only used mainly for gimmicky purposes, the digitized speech in Wolf 3D is central to the mechanics of the fps genre, where instant identification of enemies is absolutely essential to gameplay. The official hint manual stresses how important it is to recognize each enemy's distinctive alert cry. It might appear to be gamecrufty on the surface, but in reality, knowing what each enemy says is an extremely significant element to the game and definitely an aspect worthy enough to include here.
And aside from that aside, some of the quotes in Wolf 3D have become fairly well known. For example, these three sources: [2], [3], and [4] all instantly associate the quote "Mein leben!" with the game. If a simple cry of "Mein leben!" is apparently enough to elicit connotations of Wolf 3D, then I think that shows that these quotes are more than noteworthy enough for mention. MarphyBlack 07:47, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
It's not Wolfenstein3D that first used digitized voices, but Castle Wolfenstein, it's predecessor. WikiTracker (talk) 18:50, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Guard says?

In the Apogee faq and in the article he says "actung!" [5] Maybe he says that in the later versions (Mac, etc), but it sounds to me like "hertzouwa" (or something) You can listen to it here Maybe it's Hŏr zu! (Listen!) Zephyr103 10:39, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

In the hint manual created my ID, it says that he says "Actung!" It is possible that with new (and older) sound cards that the sounds will be slightly distorted. As it is that way with me on my XP machine. But on out old DOS-BOX I can clearly hear him say "ACTUNG!" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.74.25.66 (talk) 14:23, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Wolfenstein-3d.jpg

Image:Wolfenstein-3d.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 11:52, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Done. - Sega381 13:04, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Trivia

why the triva was totally removed? :-(

Well, the History page says thus: (cur) (last) 18:50, 22 September 2007 MarphyBlack (Talk | contribs) (27,689 bytes) (→Trivia - Now that the geographical references are gone, changing heading to something more appropriate.) (undo)
P.S. Trivia -sections- are frowned upon by Wikipedia. Lots42 20:02, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
there was interstiing info about MP-40, Luger and so on :-( —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.115.54.176 (talk) 03:56, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Well, I suggest digging it up via the history and creating a new section called 'Weaponry'. Lots42 10:21, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
It will be nice! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.193.233.66 (talk) 03:19, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
will you do that?

Boss Descriptions

Do we HONESTLY need the BOSS Descriptions section? Lots42 (talk) 12:37, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

No we don't, it's game guide material, and besides it was put in a section that had nothing to do. There are other conversations about this here, and it was decided that the bosses were gone. Someone re-added the info from some of the older versions of the article. There is no strong argument to put that section, and several against it. Sega381 (talk) 00:02, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
I believe we DO NEED BOSS DESCRIPTIONS. These are more than bosses, they're characters, and they do have a relevance beyond game guide usage. I would like to see the characters, in some fashion, included in the page.WikiTracker (talk) 18:47, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
I disagree: except for Hitler, the bosses, though colorful as they may be, have almost no importance to the "big picture" of the game (and those who do have it are already mentioned in the "Story" section). I love Wolfenstein and like the bosses, but there can't be everything about a game inside Wikipedia. Take for example, the Commander Keen article: there is a lot more to say (and there are even some pages that could be deleted or may already have been deleted that have interesting game related info, like Vorticons), but Wikipedia is not the proper place; therefore, all that information is put in another wiki, in this case the KeenWiki. Of course there can be special cases, like bosses who are characters closely interwoven with the whole game, etc.
HOWEVER, if you or someone really think the bosses descriptions add some important info that has to be in Wikipedia and not somwhere else as an external link (such as a Wolfenstein wiki), I recommed adding one paragraph in the Gameplay section summarizing the bosses, something in the lines of "The bosses the player encounters are: Hans Grosse (a strong guard with dual-mounted guns), Gretel Grosse..." etc. That way, the info will be in the article, it will be summarized as it is not that important to contain every single detail about the bosses, and it will be presented in a not-gameguide-like way. I strongly recommend you to do this if you feel the information has to be there, instead of readding the boss section somehwere in the article yet another time. Sega381 (talk) 23:16, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
WikiStrategy. Awesome site. Perfect for all the boss talk. Lots42 (talk) 12:54, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Unstable ports?

At the end of the overview, it's mentioned that "Some unofficial and unstable[citation needed] ports to different platforms like Linux and add-ons have been developed". There's currently a citation needed flag here (which makes sense to me), but rather than citing a source for that information, it seems like it should be removed.

Software instability is often localized to the specific configuration of the computer it's running on, as well as being generally transient (as fixes and patches are released). Moreover, it seems like any discussion of instability for a specific port of Wolf3D would be better placed in the article for the specific port being alluded to, not in this article.

Mcwehner (talk) 23:34, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree with this.
Walker222 (talk) 22:08, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

This is one of the games that has a shareware version and I think that would be good to put right into the external links section. Some other games categorize informational links and links to the game download. The current 3D Realms link has a download available of the raw DOS files so I'd like to place it under a subheading. I also host a version optimized for Windows on my website: DOSome Games and I'd like to put a link to that if there aren't any objections.

Also, earlier in this talk page it shows we are removing material that is better suited for a game guide. Perhaps if someone knows a particularly good game guide that would be a good external link to include.

Lmaxsmith (talk) 05:51, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Doom 2

I'm surprised there's not mention of the Wolfenstein levels in Doom 2 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.237.64.150 (talk) 09:57, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, an obscure reference to Wolfenstein 3D in a relatively unimportant game(W3D is the granddaddy of all 1st person shooters, whereas Doom 2 is basically just a Doom expansion pack) isn't considered all that notable.--24.60.220.148 (talk) 16:19, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
Respectfully disagree. The "secret" Wolfenstein levels in Doom 2 were basically a recreation of the first and last levels of Wolfenstein using the new engine. This is not an obscure reference, but a blatant nod to the development of the genre and id software. They even wrote it into the storyline, tying the "Doom" series in to the Wolfenstein story. This belongs in the Legacy section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.73.140.230 (talk) 14:09, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Sequels

RtCW in the Sequels section seems to be overly elaborate. Specifically, is the 'cg_uselessnostalgia' in-game console command important to note in this article? The same goes for the Wolfenstein 3D games available as bonus content in its various versions. Also, it seems like the small backstory on RtCW:ET could be cut -- it's definitely of interest but I think it would be best confined to RtCW:ET article. Note that the Doom article doesn't even have a sequels section -- that information is easily available right in the 'Doom series' info box at the bottom. No need for the Wolf 3D article to go on at length about its sequels. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Walker222 (talk • contribs) 22:06, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Ports/Version details and differences

I restructured the ports section some, as it read very poorly for the general reader. I distinguished between commercial ports of the game and user-made ports, removed some less-relevant details for specific ports, and added dates for the ports. Still think the section needs some more refinement and citation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Walker222 (talk • contribs) 17:45, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

I'd like to suggest creating a 'Ports and Versions of Wolfenstein 3D' page akin to the Doom one. I think Wolf3D has seen enough commercial ports over the years to warrant something like this. I don't think it would be a stub article. The other reason is that the differences between versions, while interesting and notable in their own right, are not really all that relevant to the legacy of Wolf3D. I emphasize legacy because the section should focus on evidence of the game's impact, not detail differences in different versions. Differences are interesting though, so why not make a new section for it? I think can Wolf3D warrants that.

The only exception I see is SNES; NES's censorship/editing of their product effectively describes Wolf3D's impact, reception, and controversy at the time. Thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Walker222 (talk • contribs) 01:55, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

On August 13, I added some information about the 3DO and Jaguar versions of Wolfenstein 3D to this article. On the 15th, Walker222 reverted these additions. He provided no direct explanation for the revert, instead noting "See talk page for this discussion." The problem is, as you can see by reading over this talk page and its history, no discussion concluding that information on Wolfenstein 3D ports should be deleted from this article ever took place here. Most likely the discussion Walker222 is referring to took place on a project or user talk page. On August 24th I posted a message on Walker222's user talk page asking why my edit was reverted. He has not replied in the four days since, and looking at his contributions history, it seems he has left Wikipedia entirely for the time being. That being the case, I've gone ahead and re-instated my edit. Should Walker222 return, or anyone else come along who can offer a rationale for why my edit was reverted, please post here as I honestly can't see why a video game article should not contain information about the varying content of its ports.--NukeofEarl (talk) 15:29, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
Hi NukeofEarl. I've moved your point to this section. I hope you don't mind, I just want all the points in this discussion to be in one place. This is the section I was referring to in my edit notes. As you can see, I made significant cuts and clarifications to this section last year, and have stated my reasons for doing so above. These changes have so far not been contested in any way.
In any case, as I state above, I believe that Wolf3D has too many commercial ports and variants to document in this section of the game's general page. You note the Jaguar and 3DO versions, but there are many many others, and many details for each port. I do think however that these differences are interesting and significant for a player (though not a general reader), and are numerous enough to warrant a separate article linked to from this one, as was done for Doom ( Official_versions_of_Doom ). There is already a separate article for Wolf3D's game engine, again for this same reason: the content is large enough for its own space, and too detailed to go into for a single section. I'll also add that Doom was a starred article so this approach has some consensus to it.
All the previous details for the versions I've kept here in the case that someone would like to start a Official_versions_of_Wolfensten_3D page (I believe the differences you note are already detailed here as well). Just on this talk page there's a table documenting some differences too. Please consider this approach to the article and share your thoughts here. Thanks!
Sorry for the late reply. I agree that a seperate article for the different versions is appropriate, but all the split-off articles I've seen started as sections or sub-sections of their respective parent article, and this strikes me as the logical way to proceed; I don't see why we need to keep this information out of Wikipedia articles entirely until a dedicated article is created. Anyway, the user page you mention has been around for well over a year, so it seems past time to either create an "Official versions of Wolfenstein 3D" article or admit that we don't have sufficient material for one. To be blunt, holding the info on a user page indefinitely seems a bit silly, since no one's going to read it there.
Incidentally, I disagree that the differences are not interesting for a general reader. I frequently read about the differences between versions of games that I either (a)only have access to one version of, or (b)have no interest in playing, period.--NukeofEarl (talk) 17:56, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
The user page is not for people to actually browse, it's just a place to work up the content until it's ready to be submitted as an article, as per the advice (tip #2) on these article guidelines. Walker222 (talk) 11:25, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on the usefulness of the detailed accounts of port differences in a game's main article. I do agree though that it may be time to work up the versions article and post it as an article. I will see what I can do in that regard, hopefully within the week. Please feel free to work up the versions article here in the meantime if you're so inclined. Walker222 (talk) 11:25, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
I know user pages are not for people to actually browse; that was my point. Anyway, if you're working on posting the new article soon, then I'll gladly save any further info I come across for the User Page. One thing I gotta do is try to dig up some good sources.--NukeofEarl (talk) 15:59, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
Ok, I made the page: Official versions of Wolfensten 3D. Please correct, cite and screenshots, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Walker222 (talk • contribs) 23:51, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Shareware Information

Hey everyone, I was actually wondering if anyone knew specifically what episode the shareware version of the game included. I am pretty sure it is the first episode, and so if I can get confirmation, I figure I can make that part of the page a little more specific. Thanks!U21980 (talk) 00:53, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it's the first episode of the whole game. It'd be great if you could find a citation for that too! Walker222 (talk) 18:12, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Number of Levels

The top of the article states that episode 1 contains 10 levels. The Gameplay sections states that each episode consisted of 9 levels. One of these has to be incorrect. Hastor (talk) 13:18, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

The paragraph next to the one mentioning nine levels reads:
There is also one "secret" level per episode that can only be accessed by the player uncovering a hidden elevator.
— Ivan Shmakov (talk) 08:57, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Jaguar Version

The article mentions that ports vary by audio, graphics and levels. However, the Jaguar added the flamethrower weapon, and from what I understand, this is the only version that contains it. I thought it may be worth mentioning. There is also not a mention of which weapons are available in the game, just the number of different weapons in each level. With the small number of weapons available in this game, it seems like it may be worth at least listing, if not briefly describing them.

Also, someone above mentioned that the Mac version was ported from the Jaguar version. Did the flamethrower make it to the Mac? The same comment says that the Jaguar version was itself ported from the SNES version, and I know the Jaguar version isn't censored like the SNES version and has much better graphics. Was it just the engine itself that was ported between all these? Hastor (talk) 13:50, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Nintendo 3DS

According to the "Platform(s)" field of the Infobox, Wolfenstein 3D runs on Nintendo 3DS.

I have serious doubts for the following reasons:

  • The "Release date(s)" field of the Infobox states "December 24, 2011 (3DS)". A future date does NOT qualify as a release;

If nobody adds a reference for "Nintendo 3DS" in the "Platform(s)" field of the Infobox, I will delete it after one month. ProResearcher (talk) 16:02, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

"unofficial video adaptations"

I don't see how a direct-to-video 'mockbuster' production that derives some of its fiction from the Wolfenstein 3D needs to have a section on the game's page. I don't believe the project is of interest to the general reader, which is the same reason there are no sections devoted to every port (commercial or no). It's also misleading - an 'unofficial film adaptations' section with a single entry. Appears to be there entirely for promotional reasons. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Walker222 (talk • contribs) 12:41, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

suggestions for improving the article

there should be a weapon section. the requirements also needs work. the game requires vga to run and i should know because i have tested it with ega and it didnt even start. it requires a sound card for music. think it takes about 2 megabytes of space. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.208.59.120 (talk) 15:41, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

A weapons section would fall under WP: GAMEGUIDE.--NukeofEarl (talk) 17:10, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

GA Review

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Wolfenstein 3D/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Shaun9876 (talk · contribs) 00:03, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Rate Attribute Review Comment
1. Well-written:
1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.
1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation. Seems fine
2. Verifiable with no original research:
2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline. Everything but a few things seem cited properly.
2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).
2c. it contains no original research. I don't see any...
3. Broad in its coverage:
3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic. Yup
3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style). For the most part it's ok.
4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each. Fine
5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute. No edit wars in recent history.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content. Both have appropriate fair use rationals.
6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions. Both the images are good and are helpful.
7. Overall assessment. The article is in pretty good shape. Other than some minor problems it seems alright.

OK, so? --Niemti (talk) 18:09, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Doom II

The inclusion of Wolfenstein as a secret level in Doom II is cited in many reviews and articles about the game, so I feel confident in adding this to the "spin-offs" list without violating GA. 70.72.221.229 (talk) 16:44, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Useful source

wolfenstein 3d is a reboot make no mistake

id rebooted it with just the trademark — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.180.207.162 (talk) 20:13, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

What exactly is your point? Chaheel Riens (talk) 21:29, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

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GA Review

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Wolfenstein 3D/GA3. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Indrian (talk · contribs) 17:57, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

I'll be happy to review this article on one of the true milestones in video game history. Comments to follow. Indrian (talk) 17:57, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Wow, did I really volunteer to review this almost a month ago?!? Hit a busy patch in my life with a new job and such, but here I am, ready to give this article its due! I will be posting this review in chunks as I get time to review.

Lead

  •  Done"Wolfenstein 3D is a 3D first-person shooter video game" - The term "3D" here is tricky. The game is not really 3D, as there is no movement along the z-axis and all the objects are 2D sprites. Its a 3D perspective, but just calling it a first-person shooter gets that point across. That's a perhaps overlong way of saying we can safely do without the term here for clarity.
  • Dropped
  •  Done"the player assumes the role of a World War II Allied spy William "B.J." Blazkowicz, as they escape from the Nazi German prison Castle Wolfenstein" - The player is assuming the role of a character that is escaping, yet the sentence discusses the plot as if the player ("they") is the one escaping rather than B.J. I don't care how it is fixed, but the sentence needs to be consistent in how it refers to player vs. character actions. This problem crops up a couple of other places in the article as well.
  • Fixed so that the lead/gameplay are out-of-universe (the player does X), while the plot is in-universe (Blazkowicz does Y)
  •  Done"the game's flat levels" - I get what you are trying to say here (the whole no z-axis thing mentioned above), but I am not sure "flat" is the best way to convey that.
  • Dropped it, and added a bit when discussing the engine about it- "In mid-1991, programmer John Carmack experimented with making a fast 3D game engine by restricting the gameplay and viewpoint to a single plane, producing Hovertank 3D and Catacomb 3-D as prototypes." I'm going to leave the "3D" bit there since that was the goal, even if he stopped at 2.5D, since the discussion is better suited to outside of the lead.
  •  Done"using Adrian Carmack's artwork and sound effects and music by Bobby Prince" - This clause feels tacked on to what is already a pretty long sentence. Should be rephrased so it stands on its own.
  • Done

Gameplay

 Done*"Each level is themed after Nazi bunkers and buildings, real and fictitious, though the level design does not correspond with any real location" - Awkwardly worded. Are the level layouts really based on actual Nazi structures, or is it just the iconography and the like?

  • Done

 Done*"can be found behind pushable walls hidden in levels" - While this is the common nomenclature, it does conjure images of physically pushing against the walls in game as opposed to spamming spacebar everywhere to see what happens.

  • Done; also done in Development, though I lose my stealth pun that Hall was pushing for pushable walls.

Development

  • "the team agreed to produce a series of games for Gamer's Edge, one every two months" - For how many months. Pretty sure all the common sources give the details, but I don't have them in front of me.
  • None that I've seen do; Masters of Doom just says "one every two months", as does the IGN article about the early history of id- it lists 8 games, but doesn't have ScubaVenture. The Apogee FAQ lists 7 games + ScubaVenture, but is missing Shadow Knights; SYNTHing them together makes 9 games over 18 months, which seems right, but I don't have 1 source that says that.
  •  Done" Ideas from the Deep, now formally established as id Software, used some of these games to prototype ideas for their own games" - This may work better as the topic sentence of the next sentence, which currently begins by describing some of the new ideas the two Carmacks explored in these games.
  • Agreed, done.

Addressed or commented on all points above here. --PresN 16:37, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Development Round II

  •  Done"Romero and Hall came up with the ideas for the game" - Ideas is a rather imprecise term. I take this to mean the game play elements and design aesthetics, but of course the technology by Carmack and the art by the other Carmack also count as "ideas" in a broad sense. The language just needs to be tightened a little bit.
  • Done
  •  Done"The team ensured that the presentation of the game made the feeling that they wanted" - Poorly worded. "Made the feeling" needs to be replaced with something else. I have been doing a lot of rewriting of this section myself during the review, but wanted to leave this one to you since you will have the best idea of what you are trying to convey with this thought.
  • Done
  •  Done"with Adrian Carmack creating violent animations for enemies being shot, and adding music and sound effects by Bobby Prince, who had previously worked on some Keen games for them, so that the guns would sound exciting." - This part is a bit of a mess I'm afraid. No good transition between Carmack's and Prince's contributions so its left seeming like Carmack added Prince's sounds into the game, which I do not believe was the intent. Also, the arrangement of the clauses gives the impression that Prince added sounds to Keen to make the guns sound more exciting rather than to Wolfenstein.
  • Done
  • "As development continued, id Software hired their former Softdisk liaison Kevin Cloud as an artist away from the company, only to decide to move the company out of snowy Madison to Mesquite, Texas, near where Apogee was located, the same day he arrived." - As Cloud is not listed as having made any significant contributions to Wolfenstein specifically, discussing his hiring seems tangential to the article topic.
 Done*Reduced some of the detail; as he is credited at doing something (even if minor) for the game, and there were only 4 other id employees working on the game, I feel I should still mention him.
  •  DoneAs a general note on development, it is kind of awkward stylistically to have just one subsection ("Release") in a section. The development section is long enough that further subdivisions should be possible without messing with the flow of the article.
  • Not sure how I want to split up the section (I see where, just not the names), I've instead promoted Release to a top-level section.

That's it for round 2. I will try to wrap this whole review up as soon as I can. Indrian (talk) 16:32, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Responded. --PresN 21:46, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
All looking good, hopefully this will be the final round of the most drawn out GA review in recent memory. Indrian (talk) 15:28, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Release

  •  Done"The original trilogy of episodes were released by Apogee on May 5 as Wolfenstein 3D" - The release date of a game is generally defined as the day the game is actually available to own as opposed to the day it is available for purchase. Maybe use a different word here to convey that they started accepting orders on this date?
  • Reworded
  •  Done"while the second trilogy that Miller had convinced id to create was released on the same schedule" - Not sure what "schedule" means here. Were they released at the same time? Or does this convey that they were offered for purchase a few weeks before they actually shipped?
  • Reworded; I'm not sure what I was going for there
  •  Done"FormGen later created two mission packs" - Did they create the packs or just release them? Even if they were the creators this should be reworded slightly, as a release date is given in the sentence, but as it is currently structured this is identified as a creation date instead.
  • Changed to published; I can't find if they developed the packs themselves or not, but they did publish them.

And that's it. I did a few small rewrites in the later sections, leaving only these final three minor issues above. I'll go ahead and place this  On hold while the final changes are made. Sorry again that it took so long to get us here. Indrian (talk) 15:28, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

@Indrian: Done. --PresN 15:52, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
@PresN: Okay, I did one final copy edit of the whole thing, and I am now ready to promote. Well done! Indrian (talk) 19:17, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

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Ultima Underworld

Hey everyone. Look at that - https://www.facebook.com/theromero/posts/10153943198041289

A major quote from that post: I was never shown a build of Ultima Underworld. John Carmack had never seen UU either. The first time we saw it was when everyone else in the world saw it, in late March 1992. About 5 weeks before we launched Wolfenstein 3D.

I guess we will need to remove all references to Ultima Underworld as false? Let's discuss that. --Lone Guardian (talk) 22:03, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Well, that's not what this article says, either; this facebook post is talking about errors in the first-person shooter article, 2 years ago. This article says "In the fall of 1991 [...], Carmack learned about Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss... Ultima Underworld was planned to display texture-mapped 3D graphics without Hovertank's restrictions of flat walls and simple lighting. Deciding that he could add texture mapping without sacrificing the engine's speed or greatly increasing the system requirements as Underworld was doing, Carmack enhanced the engine over six weeks from Hovertank 3D for another Softdisk game, the November 1991 Catacomb 3-D." So, the only thing that facebook post contradicts is that Carmack learned UU had texture mapping in 1991- it says he heard about it in 1990. This article doesn't say that he or Romero saw it, which seems to be correct, and the article says that he added texture mapping to Catacombs 3-D first, not Wolfenstein, which is what the facebook page says.
So, the only point of contradiction is that Masters of Doom says that the team learned about UU having texture mapping in mid-1991, and Romero says it was 1990, though Carmack didn't use it in the April 1991 Hovertank 3D but only in the November 1991 Catacombs 3-D. I can reword the sentences to fit that, given that Romero has a crazy memory for when things happened so he's likely correct that the phone call was fall 1990. --PresN 03:39, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification, it is really helpful for the translation to another language. Though, it indeed looks like it needs some reword for that. --Lone Guardian (talk) 05:27, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

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