Talk:Whitsunday (disambiguation)

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Second Sunday of Easter

Is Low Sunday ever called Whit Sunday ?

-- Beardo 00:19, 28 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not that as far as I am aware. It certainly does not say so in the citation provided, unless one is prepared to accept "Dominica in albis" as being the same as Whitsun, which I personally would find perverse. 128.86.151.116 (talk) 16:46, 24 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Whitsunday

If it always falls on 15 May then it cannot always be a Sunday. Why this discrepancy? Drutt (talk) 00:42, 12 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

History. Whitsunday was originally always a Sunday. It is another name for Pentacost. Only later was the date fixed to May 15. --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 13:08, 23 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 23 May 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved. In actuality the DAB page is already at Whitsunday so nothing further has to be done. There may be some leftover questions where no consensus has yet been formed: e.g. how to connect Whitsunday articles to Pentecost articles. On the DAB page at Whitsunday you can find a link to Whitsun but it's hard to see, considering its importance. The DAB contains bluelinks for both Whitsun and Pentecost on the same line. Does this break any rules? Pentecost might be split out onto its own line to avoid this. Maybe Whitsun should get a hat note telling the reader about the DAB page, currently at Whitsunday. EdJohnston (talk) 15:56, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Whitsunday → Whitsunday (disambiguation) – Globaly, the primary usage of "Whitsunday" is to refer to Pentecost Sunday. It is WP:PRIMARYUSAGE of Whitsunday. Whitsunday is used by both Anglican Churches and English speakers in every country of the world. Whitsunday leads to Whit Monday, a widespread holiday across Europe. Outside of Australia, when people refer to Whitsunday they are primarily referring to the Christian holy day, one of four Embertides. All the other uses listed here derive from that original usage. Why is Whitsunday, Queensland called Whitsunday? Because of the Christian holy day. Much like Easter Island, Christmas Island, and Michaelmas Island were named after their respective Embertides. Therefore this page's information should be moved to Whitsunday (disambiguation) and then this page should be redirected to Whitsun. (Perhaps we should discuss renaming "Whitsun" to "Whitsunday" or merging Whitsun into Pentacost but that is a separate discussion. First let's resolve the WP:PRIMARYUSAGE question before tackling WP:CommonName and WP:Merging discussions.) Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 13:03, 23 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Iloilo Wanderer, In regard to global representation, how does this fit with the content of the article Whitsun? Surely if people want to find information on Pentecost they will search on Pentecost. Greg Kaye 15:07, 23 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes if they are looking for information on Pentecost then they would search for "Pentecost". That is true. But what if they are searching for the term "Whitsunday"? Shouldn't they be taken to either the Whitsun or Pentecost article given that the WP:Primaryusage of Whitsunday, when viewed from a global, not Australian, perspective, is as an old and common name for Pentecost? I argue yes. I argue that this page should redirect to either Pentecost or Whitsun with a { { redirect } } hatnote to Whitsunday (disambiguation) to direct people to Whitsunday Islands and related articles. So common -- so primary -- is this name for Pentecost that the European holiday related to Pentecost is known as Whit Monday, not Pentecost Monday. So common is this name that when Cook discovered the Whitsunday Passage he did not name it "Pentecost Passage" but "Whitsunday Passage", in keeping with the tradition of Christmas Island, Easter Island, and Michaelmas Island, roughly the four Quarter Days. So common, so prevalent, so primary is this usage that the Scottish Term Day is known as Whitsunday. Both Whitsunday and Pentecost stretch back to Old English, or over 1,000 years, long before Cook and the Whitsunday islands. (See Etymoline [1] and [2]) The term Whitsunday is the primary usage in the Book of Common Prayer, the official prayer book of the established church of England, and one of the most influential books in the English language. (See Wikisource here [3]) The usage of Whitsunday to refer to Pentecost is the primary use worldwide and stretching back in history. Only in Australia is the primary use to refer to the Whitsunday Islands. Yet, even then, in Australia it is a reference to the holiday. Therefore, I argue, this page should redirect to the holiday and not be a disambiguation page. --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 16:53, 23 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support in theory. I don't think there's any real question to primary topic. Red Slash 13:11, 24 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. Pentecost is the primary topic for Whitsunday and the latter should redirect there. Calidum T|C 23:34, 24 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

What was all that about?

So what was the point of the move discussion if nothing was done? We now have the situation where the term "Whitsunday" brings you here and "Whit Sunday" takes you to the Whitsun article. Should the "Whit Sunday" redirect point here? Richerman (talk) 16:22, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Actually User:Iloilo Wanderer seems to have given different advice in his first and second comments. At some point, someone needs to make a decision. The closer can't produce a decisive result if the commenting editors haven't said what to do. EdJohnston (talk) 16:28, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, the discussion seems clear that the disambiguation page should not be at the base name. The only thing that is not clear is whether Whitsunday should be a redirect to Whitsun or to Pentecost. older ≠ wiser 16:32, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Shall I undo my close? If people are paying attention and are willing to comment further, maybe they can reach a conclusion. The current status is that Whitsunday contains the DAB. EdJohnston (talk) 16:36, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

My understanding of this is that the proposal was to move the information on this page to Whitsunday (disambiguation) and make this page a redirect to Whitsun The proposer then changed that and said it could redirect to Whitsun or Pentacost. There were two supports - one was unclear about the redirect and the other said redirect to Pentacost. It was then closed as moved, which is incorrect as nothing has been decided about the redirect and nothing has been moved. The reason I didn't comment earlier is that it was just a confusing mess. However, having now got it straight in my head I would support the move if this page becomes a redirect to the Whitsun article and there is a hatnote on that article pointing to Whitsunday (disambiguation). The first line of the Whitsun article says "Whitsun (also Whitsunday, Whit Sunday or Whit) is the name used in the United Kingdom and Ireland for the Christian festival of Pentecost" - so that clears up any confusion once you get there. In the Pentacost article Whitsunday isn't mentioned until the second paragraph and then it links to the Whitsun article but the terms Whitsun and Whit aren't mentioned at all - and it would probably be overkill to mention all the terms used there. Richerman (talk) 23:17, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

How about including mention of Whitsunday in Pentecost (disambiguation)? Also the DAB says it is one of the 'prominent feasts in the Catholic liturgical year.' This might be overdoing it, because Protestants observe Pentecost also. EdJohnston (talk) 15:03, 1 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That seems reasonable. I would just change it to Christian liturgical year, however, the modern usage is Whit Sunday - if you Google Whitsunday you mostly get information about the islands. Richerman (talk) 17:05, 1 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Well

That was ... not the consensus. I have now pointed it to Whitsun, as consensus was showing. Red Slash 17:40, 11 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes but I'm afraid you still got it wrong - it should be Whitsunday (disambiguation). There is no mention on the article page or in the discussion of the plural Whitsundays. Richerman (talk) 21:24, 11 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, having this at the plural is simply bizarre. Not one of the entries is plural. older ≠ wiser 22:40, 11 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, it is weird, but I'm not an admin so I couldn't do it otherwise. Red Slash 21:47, 20 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]