Talk:Voiced labiodental fricative

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history

it seems likely (to me) that the (voiced and unvoiced) labiodental fricatives would tend to descend from bilabial plosives via bilabial fricatives, seeing as (a) there are letter correspondences between labiodental fricatives and bilabial plosives, and (b) if you create a fricative variant of a bilabial plosive (or rather, you start distinguishing between the fricative and plosive), then a labiodental fricative is essentially the same sound with the distinctive turbulence emphasised, but you'd have little reason to morph a labiodental fricative back to a bilabial fricative. anybody know anything about this? I wouldn't know where to start looking. my alternate explanation is that B/V confusion has arisen from the two letters being adjacent on keyboards. 131.172.99.15 (talk) 07:54, 4 November 2008 (UTC)snaxalotl[reply]

B/V confusion preceded keyboards. Plus, how common is B/N confusion or Y/T confusion? Yes, [b] > [v] has occured in some languages like Greek, Hebrew, and Irish and a similar process occurred in Spanish with [b] > [β]. French, and potentially many other Indo-European languages like German, Sanskrit, and Russian got /v/ from *w; English /v/ comes from either loanwords or from the voicing of /f/ ([f] > [v]). If I recall correctly, other potential sources of /v/ include from [ɣ] (as in Russian его [jɪˈvo] and paralleling English [x] > [f] as in laugh) and [ð] (as in Ebonics or Cockney brother [ˈbɹʌvə]). — Æµ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 18:14, 4 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hebrew

Should be added in my opinion, especially since in modern Hebrew there are two different letters which give a v sound (Vav and Veth). TFighterPilot (talk) 13:55, 21 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Added. Dan ☺ 20:13, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Occurrence

Isn't /v/ also common as a phoneme in Africa, at least in Bantu languages and perhaps West Africa? --Florian Blaschke (talk) 22:02, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Chinese

Should a note be added about /v/ occurring in Mandarin spoken in Shanghai? I have not found any articles on WP describing such a change, but from my personal experience, I have heard /w/ being pronounced as /v/ by speakers from around China. EditWorker (talk) 23:37, 17 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This is only conjecture, but the mispronunciation may be due to the labiodental approximant ⟨ʋ⟩ used in Mandarin, like in 为 (Pinyin: wèi, IPA: [ʋêi] ). I agree that a note may be a good idea. On the page on the labiodental approximant, it is said that for Mandarin, ⟨ʋ⟩ “corresponds to /w/ in other varieties.”; this may have been added after your enquiry. 杜浩然 (talk) 15:51, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hindi and Urdu examples

What exactly is the status of [v] in Hindustani phonology? What are the rules for its allophony with the phoneme /ʋ/? This article links to Hindustani phonology in two places, but its data on the phoneme shows a couple discrepancies with the ones here, and I'd like to reconcile them. Johanna-Hypatia (talk) 09:21, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Georgian

is the Georgian /v/ really labiodental? to my ears it sounds like bilabial fricative or something similar. 2A01:CB10:65:400:F9FF:4FA0:EC78:14EC (talk) 09:09, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

German example

The German example is wrong, could somebody change it? I'm not good enough in IPA to also transcribe it (still certain enough by comparing it to Dutch, French, and English examples). IDon'tFindAName (talk) 23:55, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong how? Nardog (talk) 00:14, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As a native German speaker, I don't find anything wrong with it. Nikola M 8421 (talk) 14:01, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

So from my experience (growing up around these languages)

French: valve [valv]
Dutch: vreemd [vreːmt]
English: valve: [væɫv]

All have the same /v/. However Wächter as [ˈvɛçtɐ] is something I don't recall ever hearing, and at the very least it is not how I pronounce it (also a native). [ˈʋvɛçtɐ] is how I would pronounce it. In the spelling alphabet W as in Wilhelm is the W I would use in Wächter. V for Viktor is what I think of as an example for /v/ in German. IDon'tFindAName (talk) 12:26, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]