Talk:Veliky Novgorod/Archive 1

Archive 1

Holmgard=island garden?

It is stated that the norse Holmgard should be translated to island garden in English. However, gard has a much wider meaning than just garden, eg. farm and area. Also holm has more meanings. Besides being an island, a holm can be a small plateau. See Danish Holm (ø). Hence Holmgard and Holmgrad can have more or less the same meaning. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mortengrud (talk • contribs) 12:56, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Yup, compare Miklagard for gard. Holm in nl:Munnekeholm is explained as "sandy height" (well OK, "height" in the Dutch sense: it doesn't get flooded when it rains). Erik Warmelink (talk) 01:50, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Slavic City?

Interestingly enough, the article fails even to mention the fact that the Nestor Chronicle (or whatever the name is in English) mentions two Slavonic and three "Finnish" tribes (Finnic speaking) as the founders of Novgorod, instead the city is represented as "purely Slavic". Is there a good reason for that? Should I write something about it?

With sources. --ajvol 09:15, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Something like this [1]? "According to the Primary Chronicle, the earliest chronicle of Kievan Rus′, a Varangian (Viking) named Rurik first established himself in Novgorod, located in modern Russia (he was selected as common ruler by several Slavic and Finno-Ugric tribes) in about 860 before moving south and extending his authority to Kiev. The chronicle cites him as the progenitor of the Rurik Dynasty. The Primary Chronicle says: Upon year 6367 (859): Varangians from over the sea had tribute from Chuds, Slavs, Merias, Veses, Krivichs...." By the way, "Viking" is a bit misleading because we are not talking about the kind of pirates the Vikings primarily were.

One of the original districts of Novgorod the Great is Nerev's End. Nerev were Finnic people. Also known as Nerova.

Well, Slavic and Finno-Ugric people intermixed a lot all along the way, so now it is hard to distinguish the traces. It is believed, FU were migrating east-west from Urals, while S went west-east from somewhere in Eastern Europe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.109.119.103 (talk) 19:17, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Massacre ?

Why isn't there more mention of the massacre made by Tsar upon the population ? It completely ruined the city. --Molobo 23:11, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Misuse of term viking

Four Viking kings — Olav I of Norway, Olav II of Norway, Magnus I of Norway, and Harald Haardraade is wrong at least harald was one of the vikings most importnt enemies. Read the saga as about Harald. He attacked them again and again, and finally drove them to Iceland. The other three are also doubtful, he word viking is used in its old national romacy style from 1800, but is not relevent.

Harald I was one of the most mentioned enemies of vikings that history knows.

Dan Koehl 11:56, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Dear children has many names

Rurik, the founder of Novgorod Principality is also mentioned by names Ruri, Rurikka and Hraerekr. Non of Slavonic origin. Novgorod was also called Kalmogor (Vatja name), Holmgord (Scandinavian name), Uuslinn (Estonian name), Uuslinna (Finnish name). Listed by Arabian Ibn Dustah from Bagdad Kalifate who visited there c. 880-890. Non of Slavonic origin.

Oleg is also mentioned by names Olav (Olaf), and Olavi. Both names non of Slavonic origin.

The first attackers from Holmgord toward south to Kvenugard (Kiev) in 865 were Askold and Dir. Also Askola and Tiera (Finnish) and Höskuldr and Dyri (ancient Scandinavian). Non of Slavonic origin.

Merja and Ves (Veps / Vepsä) are names of Finnic origin, not Slav, tribes.

Isborsk is derived Russian name from Issa (Big) Veps name. Setu tribe had also their own name to Isborsk, ancient Ispora. (Isopuro in Finnish).

JN

Veliky vs Velikiy

Both forms Veliky and Velikiy can be found from the net, but I was unable to find an ultimate reference to confirm which one is right. Veliky is used in addition to Wikipedia at least in Novgorod State University site. Velikiy is used at least in http://www.novgorod.ru/english/, Encyclopædia Britannica, Google Maps, Wolfram Alpha. What is the source in this article to determine the correct form to be Veliky? Ketorin (talk) 20:03, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Both forms are right (and there are several other forms as well); it's just the matter of the romanization system one chooses. As far as the titles of the Wikipedia articles go, the applicable guideline is WP:RUS (which in this case lead to using "Veliky"). For purposes unrelated to Wikipedia you are, of course, free to pick any other romanization system you like. Hope this helps.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); January 5, 2011; 20:17 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, yes it was very helpful! Ketorin (talk) 21:42, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Airport Yurievo

The city's airports Yurievo and Krechevitsy do not serve any regular flights since the middle 1990s.

Airport Yurievo no longer exists. In its place at the moment is the construction of residential houses. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.54.65.113 (talk) 14:42, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Why is ,Novgorod'?

Why is this name not translated like Newtown? --Ячсмак (talk) 19:39, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Because most names are not translated.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:49, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Why would Nazis destroy churches?

In Kyiv it was asserted in the '90s that the destruction of churches during the Second World War had actually been performed by retreating Soviet troops, not German (or Axis) ones...has anyone heard anything similar about Novgorod and/or Russia? It makes sense, insofar as the communists were much more anti-religious than the fascists...Historian932 (talk) 22:57, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

In Kiev, they just want to represent Russia as the Evil Empire, and everything bad must be related to Russia. Novgorod is not in Ukraine, therefore here we just need reliable sources. This one [2], for example, says clearly that the churches were destroyed by German troops. However, the problem was that Novgorod was on the front line for three years, with Soviet troops on the right bank of the Volkhov, and Germans on the left bank, and it was under constant cross-fire. Now it is difficult to establish exactly who destroyed what in the crossfire, but it was certainly not in any way related to the anti-religious attitudes.--Ymblanter (talk) 09:31, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

@Historian932: Who in 'Kyiv'? Is this an allusion to the Ukrainian government, or a conversation someone told you they'd overheard at a bazaar? Please don't post sweeping assertions and treat article talk pages as if they were a forum for gossip. You may have posted this in good faith, but you've already demonstrated a behavioural pattern of using other talk pages in a similar fashion. Unless you can point to reliable sources backing up the fact that it was asserted by an influential, non-fringe body/person, such postulation reads as being nationalistically provocative. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 18:20, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

@Iryna Harpy:I've demonstrated a pattern? You have nothing better to do than stalk me online? Yes it was just some Ukrainians (and expats) I talked to while I was there, did you mistake my question for a formal academic presentation? This *is* a forum for talk, that's why it's called it.Historian932 (talk) 21:16, 11 July 2018 (UTC)