Talk:University of California, San Francisco

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the University of California, San Francisco article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find medical sources: Source guidelines · PubMed · Cochrane · DOAJ · Gale · OpenMD · ScienceDirect · Springer · Trip · Wiley · TWL

Archives: 1: 2 years

California: San Francisco Bay Area High‑importance

	California portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject California, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of California on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CaliforniaWikipedia:WikiProject CaliforniaTemplate:WikiProject CaliforniaCalifornia
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
	San Francisco Bay Area portal This article is supported by San Francisco Bay Area task force (assessed as Top-importance).

Neuroscience Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Neuroscience, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Neuroscience on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.NeuroscienceWikipedia:WikiProject NeuroscienceTemplate:WikiProject Neuroscienceneuroscience
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Higher education

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Higher education, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of higher education, universities, and colleges on Wikipedia. Please visit the project page to join the discussion, and see the project's article guideline for useful advice.Higher educationWikipedia:WikiProject Higher educationTemplate:WikiProject Higher educationHigher education
	This article was a past Collaboration of the Month.

University of California Top‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject University of California, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to University of California, its history, accomplishments and other topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.University of CaliforniaWikipedia:WikiProject University of CaliforniaTemplate:WikiProject University of CaliforniaUniversity of California
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This page is within the scope of the UC San Francisco task force. New members are always welcome!

Medicine Low‑importance

	Medicine portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Medicine, which recommends that medicine-related articles follow the Manual of Style for medicine-related articles and that biomedical information in any article use high-quality medical sources. Please visit the project page for details or ask questions at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine.MedicineWikipedia:WikiProject MedicineTemplate:WikiProject Medicinemedicine
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

UCSF is a research university

I'm challenging this edit by User:ElKevbo on 1 January 2023 which doesn't make sense. First, UCSF is a health sciences campus of which the medical school is only one part, so to call it a "medical school" is simply inaccurate. Second, as a "Special Focus" institution, UCSF is a research university under the Carnegie Classification. As this Web page explains in the first paragraph, the "Special Focus Research Institution" category is "comprised of the special focus institutions that meet the criteria for being considered a 'Research University' but confer degrees in a limited range of academic programs." Any objections before I fix this? Coolcaesar (talk) 15:11, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No objections here. UCSF is much more than a medical school. WildCowboy (talk) 15:51, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

First, the statement that "as a 'Special Focus' institution, UCSF is a research university under the Carnegie Classification" is blatantly incorrect. If this were a research university under the classification's criteria then it would be classified as such. It's a really bad idea for Wikipedia editors to impose their own judgment over what is documented in reliable sources. Second, the notion that a medical school is limited or narrowly focused is a misunderstanding of what many modern medical schools do.

With that said, the other source to which we frequently turn when asking how to describe an institution in the lede, especially the very first sentence and the infobox, is the U.S. News & World Report rankings. They classify the institution among "Global universities," an argument in favor of changing the article although it's not entirely clear if "research university" is the most appropriate label (in the prose, US&WR describes the institution as a "health sciences-focused university"). Maybe we can borrow a page from other articles like University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center and describe the institution as a "public academic health science center?" ElKevbo (talk) 23:43, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You are misreading what WildCowboy said. UCSF is defined as "Special Focus Research Institution" by Carnegie, which the definition says : "comprised of the special focus institutions that meet the criteria for being considered a 'Research University' but confer degrees in a limited range of academic programs.". This is not WildCowboy's interpetation, its spelled out cearly that this is a subset of Research Universities, not something lesser. Eccekevin (talk) 00:56, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The concern over calling it a medical school doesn't have anything to do with a perception of a narrow focus. There are three other professional schools (dentistry, nursing, and pharmacy) and a graduate division that are also part of the university beyond the medical school. I could probably get behind calling it an academic health science center though. Honestly, I'm a little surprised UCSF qualifies as a Special Focus institution under Carnegie given the good balance between biological sciences (CIP Code 26) and health professions (CIP Code 51), plus a few programs that probably fit into other CIP2 categories. Among Special Focus Research Institutions, I feel like like UCSF is possibly most similar to OHSU, which is described as research university in its Wikipedia lede and infobox. I don't think Carnegie Classification necessarily needs to be the final word on how an institution is described here, but at a minimum I hope we can agree it should be something broader than just "medical school." WildCowboy (talk) 00:58, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You might not want to lean on OHSU as a good example; it's also classified as a "Special Focus Four-Year: Research Institution" in the Carnegie Classification but USN&WR classifies it as a medical school. ElKevbo (talk) 03:05, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I specifically picked OHSU because it was listed in the same Special Focus category as UCSF and I wanted to see what Wikipedia editors had opted to describe it as for comparison. As for U.S. News, OHSU is not classified as a medical school; you must be looking specifically at the ranking of the med school. OHSU as a whole is a global university like UCSF. WildCowboy (talk) 03:14, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You're right; thanks for the correction. ElKevbo (talk) 04:04, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

After thinking about this more, I agree that "medical school" may not be the best description. But I'm still not convinced that "research university" is the best description either (but it's probably better than medical school). I still think that "public academic health science center" warrants consideration. ElKevbo (talk) 19:23, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The label Academic medical centre can be applied to the UCSF Medical Center, but it would be inaccurate and diminutive to apply it to the University at large, since big chunks of it are not connected at all the medical center (such as the UCSF Graduate Division or any of the non-medical research centers. Eccekevin (talk) 00:30, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Research University absolutely is the best description. Across all American universities, it has the second (2nd) highest Research spending, with 1.71 billion dollars - that's more than Harvard, Stanford, etc... Only Johns Hopkins has a higher research budget in the whole country. This fact alone goes against the idea that it is not a research university. : it is the top public recipient of NIH research money, and few places on earth have a higher research output. I'd invite you to look at University_of_California,_San_Francisco#Research and try to deny that the massive research output and focus does not match the definition of research university. Also, 'medical school' is simply inaccurate, since it is made up of five schools, only one of each is a medical school (the largest school). In accordance with WP:BRD, I reverted the change to status quo ante until the discussion is completed. People don't think of it as a proper university because it does not hosts undergrads, but those in the know are aware of its massive research output, possibly the most of any university when it comes to medical and biological research. ^[1]^[2]

The Times Higher Education World University Rankings ranks it as number #45 for research in the world^[3] while ARWU has it at 21.^[4]

Finally, it is not even true that Carnegie doesn't classify as such: In addition, there is a new category Special Focus Research Institution, comprised of the special focus, institutions that meet the criteria for being considered a Research University but confer degrees in a limited range of academic programs. ^[5] So according to Carnegie, UCSF meets the criteria for being considered a “Research University" .Eccekevin (talk) 00:04, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Nietzel, Michael T. "Top 25 American Universities For R And D Spending; Johns Hopkins #1 Again". Forbes.
^ "NSF – NCSES Academic Institution Profiles – Rankings by total R&D expenditures". ncsesdata.nsf.gov. Retrieved 1 April 2023.
^ "University of California, San Francisco". Times Higher Education (THE). 19 October 2021. Retrieved 1 April 2023.
^ http://www.shanghairanking.com/rankings/arwu/2022. Retrieved 1 April 2023. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
^ "Basic Classification". CARNEGIE CLASSIFICATION OF INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER EDUCATION. Retrieved 1 April 2023.

Notable Alumni and Faculty

Looking at the Notable Alumni and Faculty list I believe it is time to split the list into two separate lists as it is getting long and hard to read. Thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wabbit98 (talk • contribs) 17:05, July 25, 2024 (UTC)

This article should not have such long lists. One or more new list articles should be created and the lists moved there with summaries and links to those list articles added to this article. ElKevbo (talk) 22:37, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 22 December 2024

It has been proposed in this section that University of California, San Francisco be renamed and moved to UCSF.

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly.

Links: current log • target log • direct move

University of California, San Francisco → UCSF – WP:COMMONNAME. Theparties (talk) 11:04, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. The full name provides a WP:TITLECON consistent naming convention across all articles on universities and colleges in the United States. Many reliable sources like Forbes and US News and World Report still use the full name. The OP has also made numerous individual RMs on this same issue like this one, which may violate WP:ACROTITLE or use a shorter common name that is rarely used outside a sports/athletic context. Better to stick to the status quo. Zzyzx11 (talk) 14:55, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as unnecessary, unwise, and confusing for readers. ElKevbo (talk) 15:11, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, per the comments of Zzyzx11. —Eyer (he/him) If you reply, add {{reply to|Eyer}} to your message. 15:53, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for the reasons articulated above. --Coolcaesar (talk) 18:42, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Nietzel, Michael T. "Top 25 American Universities For R And D Spending; Johns Hopkins #1 Again". Forbes.

[2] "NSF – NCSES Academic Institution Profiles – Rankings by total R&D expenditures". ncsesdata.nsf.gov. Retrieved 1 April 2023.

[3] "University of California, San Francisco". Times Higher Education (THE). 19 October 2021. Retrieved 1 April 2023.

[4] ttp://www.shanghairanking.com/rankings/arwu/2022. Retrieved 1 April 2023. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)

[5] "Basic Classification". CARNEGIE CLASSIFICATION OF INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER EDUCATION. Retrieved 1 April 2023.

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

[5]