Talk:UEFA Super Cup

Date format

What do people think the best way to date the European Super Cup is? I noticed on Liverpool players such as Steven Gerrard that the 2001 European Super Cup was said to have been won in the 2001/2002 season. (Liverpool won the UEFA Cup in the 2000/2001 season).

As such, I dated their recent Super Cup win as occurring in the 2005/2006 season (they won the Champions League in the 2004/2005 season), although someone changed it to being the 2004/2005 season for the Super Cup.

The more I think of it, the more I think it should probably just be listed as the single year in which the Super Cup took place (so the most recent Super Cup would be called 2005, rather than 2004/2005, or 2005/2006). That seems to be in keeping with the dates in this particular article. However, I don't know whether UEFA has any specific dating/naming for the year/season the cup took place. Does anyone know? KeithD (talk) 22:03, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

I would be careful about dating it by year. Taking 1985 as an example - due to fixture congestion the game now normally played in Aug 1984 didnt take place until February 1985. The game that didnt take place between Everton and Juventus would have taken place in November 1985 i.e. two 1985 games. It is unlikely to happen in the near future but not inconcievable.

Date Specification

I think they should specify exactly the date for the matches. For example = Aug 31, 2007 at 20:30 (2007 one) Duduman (talk)

trophies

When Ajax won this trophy in 1972 & 1973 there was an altogether different trophy which must hve preceded the plaque, this trophy was huge, bigger than either the UEFA cup or even the European Champions Cup. So there have been more than three trophies to represent this honour. I have pictures of this trophy if needed

Gaffer77 (talk) 09:44, 30 April 2008 (UTC) gaffer77

Link in Records and Statistics

This is a small thing. In the records and statistics section, the link to Milan leads to the city of Milan, not A.C. Milan. I'm not really sure how to change that, but somebody can. Thanks! 75.87.249.123 (talk) 17:49, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Hello

Hello, please add UEFA Super Cup prize money, because is very important. All other european football competitions and fifa world cup have prize money in wikipedia. Thank you. Beratademaj21 (talk) 09:54, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 September 2020

Please change the linked team in the year 1986 from FC Fcsb to CSA Steaua București, FC Fcsb it's not Steaua Bucuresti. There have been 20+ trials that just proves this club (FC Fcsb) is not Steaua Bucharest, they don't have the name, the palmares(history), nothing and they are founded in 2003. --CristiCristii (talk) 12:16, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Not Done: at present, UEFA still links the 1986 wins to the FCSB entity: the Super Cup entry only talks about "Steaua", but the European Cup page shows the FCSB badge, and the entity is given 'title points' for that win at the coefficients table page. Until UEFA disassociate FCSB from the achievements of Steaua in that era, it won't be changed here either. Crowsus (talk) 14:52, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

The decision is not definitive yet. FCSB still owns the record from 1947 to present. CSA has the name. That's definitive only so far. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:2F0F:301A:E400:D851:4F4B:99DE:6C0 (talk) 14:11, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Ah yes, I know that story but if you think of it you can clearly understand who is the winner from 1986 if the name on the UEFA site is Steaua but the badge is of fcsb(since fcsb doesn't have the name Steaua). "They consider" fcsb as the winner from 1986 just because that's what they have been told from Federatia Romana de Fotbal, and FRF still at this day refused to inform UEFA who is Steaua. But it's ok, in this november will come the final answer about who has the history, and I think we all know who will win(the team that won it in the first place).

Order of the performances table

It might an irrelevant issue but what is the order shown in the performances table? I changed (sorry I didn't ask anyone for it) Juventus with Valencia because Juventus latest title was before Valencia's one and if that is not the "rule", Chelsea should be above Bayern Munich... XMillennium94x (talk) 20:00, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 May 2022

Rangers were runners up in the first Super Cup Final in 1972. Scotland should be updated to show one runner up 129.127.145.239 (talk) 05:19, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. MadGuy7023 (talk) 05:45, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

1972 was not official edition, and is not recognised by UEFA, check official website. Snowflake91 (talk) 09:29, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 April 2023

CHANGE in the "Throphy" section:

It was designed and manufactured at the Bertoni workshop in Milan. 

TO

It was designed by italian sculptor Silvio Gazzaniga and manufactured at the Bertoni workshop in Milan. 

SOURCE: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvio_Gazzaniga Damianobonazzi (talk) 09:40, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Another Wikipedia page cannot be used as a source, provide a reliable source for those changes. Snowflake91 (talk) 10:03, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 July 2023

change

It was designed and manufactured at the Bertoni workshop in Milan

to

It was designed by Silvio Gazzaniga and manufactured at the Bertoni workshop in Milan

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvio_Gazzaniga https://www.silviogazzaniga.com/ https://www.instagram.com/silviogazzaniga/ Damianobonazzi (talk) 13:35, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Not done for now @Damianobonazzi Please provide WP:SECONDARY reliable source that is WP:INDEPENDENT of the subject. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:51, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Wrong info

the current champions league trophy holders are Man City, not Real Madrid. 85.200.239.2 (talk) 13:20, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

The sentence is clearly talking about super cup holders and not CL holders, everything is fine. Snowflake91 (talk) 13:35, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Major trophy

The lead says that the UEFA Super Cup "It is not recognised as one of UEFA's major competitions." and gives two sources for it. The first source, speaking of Tottenham's chances on the UEFA Champions League says:

Only five sides have lifted all three major club trophies – Tottenham could make it six.

The second source mentions the following:

Up-to-date booking lists – including the latest player suspensions – are available here for the UEFA Champions League and the UEFA Europa League, the continent's two major club competitions.

Why not call it a major trophy since the source calls it that way? Nxavar (talk) 12:56, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Where do you see the sources calling it that way? Both sources are literally calling the Champions League, Europa League and Cup Winners' Cup as the "UEFA's major club competitions", and not Super Cup. Snowflake91 (talk) 13:49, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

You're right. My mistake. Nxavar (talk) 06:41, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Records section

As I said in the edit summary, only the records that are mentioned by UEFA or media reports should be added to the article per WP:VERIFY, and not any random statistics that you find on questionable websites with incomplete history.

• "Most assists (since 2011)" – why on earth would we add some incomplete information by some random betting website, that has only selective and incomplete information? And its not even "since 2011", they have very selective assists reports - for example they have it for 2009 (because its Messi, of course), then for 2010 they don't have assist information, for 2011 they again have it (because its Barcelona - selective match reports), and then Atletico-Chelsea match from 2012 is again missing assist information. So no, we won't include those half-done information from some random website.
• "Most wins with different clubs by player" – provide a source for this claim and stop re-adding unsourced claims. If none of the media websites or UEFA mentions this as a record, then you cannot add it to this article per WP:OR. Check Guardiola information - there are 2 different sources (UEFA, BBC) that mentions his record for winning the cup with 3 different clubs, while for Kovacic there are no such articles, so its apparently not notable.

So I will revert all your selective WP:OR and non-notable records that none of the media websites or UEFA finds it unworthy to mention, only the records from the official record book should actually be included. Snowflake91 (talk) 14:38, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

And I almost forgot, that same official UEFA source doesn't even recognize Kovacic as the four-time winner, so this should be removed as well. Check the official source above, updated as of 16 August 2023, they list only Alves, Benzema, Carvajal, Kroos, Maldini and Modric among the record winners, because apparently Kovacic isn't recognised as the winner in 2017 since he didn't play in the match. Snowflake91 (talk) 16:33, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Well, I'm tired of arguing with you, and I'm tired of your bossiness, this is the last time I'm going to respond, and if you keep doing that, go and file a complaint against me.

The policy of "original research" states that we should not post information as long as it cannot be verified. All information that i have provided can be verified by anyone.

For example, Kovacic's information, you can see the players who have achieved three UEFA Super Cup titles and more, you will not find a player who won with three clubs other than Kovacic, so we can verify this information, and therefore it is not considered an original research!

Another exampleو look at this edit, it's just right with just a simple check! But at the same time, I did not find a source stating this information. Will we consider it an original research? of course not! Because the information is completely correct and we can check and watch the results of the team's matches from 2017.

As for the number of assists, it is natural that any statistic related to assists will not find a unified source for it. Look at the assists of the World Cup, even in the largest tournament there is a difference in the sources. I found a site that shows the number of assists since 1997 in the UEFA Super Cup, and anyone can verify This information is easily obtained, so the diligence of the editors is not considered original research as long as verification is possible. As for the fragmentation of history, there is nothing that contradicts the policies of the encyclopedia, and there are many, many statistics that have been mentioned from a specific date.

I don't want to get an WP:Edit warring with you, so please stop bothering the editors and making ridiculous excuses. --Mishary94 (talk) 08:06, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

What you did IS an original research, you now manually searched and calculated assists from each edition to come with your own conclusion who is the assist leader, and by the way the source you are using is unreliable and cannot be used (Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Archive 129#Playmakerstats). For the last time - if none of the reliable sources (UEFA, media...) doesn't keep a track of the assist leaders, then you CANNOT do this by yourself by combinating different sources, player profiles, and calculate things by yourself. And you re-instated unsourced claims about Kovacic for the third time when I asked you to provide a source two times, and furtheremore you even removed a reliable BBC source that I've added. And don't even bother me with WP:OTHERSTUFF, I don't care about European association football club records and statistics which is one big WP:OR and WP:SYNTH, you cannot use another Wikipedia page as a source in this article you know? "You will not find a player who won with three clubs other than Kovacic, so we can verify this information" – fine, give me a media source that would say "Kovacic is now the record holder for winning the cup with 3 teams", unless you will do this it will be reverted. And we already saw how "great" your original research is, when you were edit warring by trying to add Johan Cruyff as the only manager that contested 5 matches even though none of the sources confirmed that, while in fact it was also Alex Ferguson who managed 5 matches, you can't even do WP:OR and WP:SYNTH properly. Snowflake91 (talk) 09:30, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Why?

Why only picture is a Barcelona player hanging a trophy if Milan got it first an Madrid got the same and first in a row? 2A02:9130:9434:E305:17BC:2658:E69E:5853 (talk) 02:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 March 2024

• Most wins by player: Mateo Kovacic and Nacho (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nacho_(footballer,_born_1990)) are missing with also 4 wins

It needs to be added "Most wins with different clubs by player" similar to "Most wins with different clubs by coach"

• Most wins with different clubs by player: Mateo Kovacic (three clubs), with Real Madrid (2016, 2017), Chelsea (2021) Manchester City (2023) Catbayarea (talk) 22:00, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

You are right, done. --Mishary94 (talk) 00:01, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

Unsourced additions will be removed, do not use WP:OR for records, UEFA doesn't list Nacho and Kovacic as 4-time winners, see source Snowflake91 (talk) 10:43, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

The necessary sources have been added. On the UEFA website, it was not mentioned that Kovacic and Nacho win four titles, because they did not participate in all of them, but in Wikipedia policies, according to the community discussion, the title is credited to the player only if he is called up, see the discussion here. Not mentioning a statistic by UEFA does not mean denying it. Kovacic won with three different clubs (this was proven by sources from the official websites of the three clubs). Please, do not retrieve the edit until you have used the talk page first. --Mishary94 (talk) 12:04, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

Per that (rejected) proposal by the community, the verdict is "Consensus is clear that supercups should not be included in a player's trophy count if they were not called up for the match". So no, Nacho did not win it 4 times regarldess of what the biased primary source (Real Madrid website) says, he was in the squad 4 times and won it 3 times (2016, 2017, 2022, lost in 2018), so you are literally contradicting yourself and your own policies by adding this, it will be removed on sight. Snowflake91 (talk) 12:33, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

You're right, thanks for your edit. --Mishary94 (talk) 13:00, 17 March 2024 (UTC)