Talk:Tripartite Indenture

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England

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Wales

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Bad map?

Henry Percy

Glyndŵr

Mortimer

The Triparte Agreement shared England among three leaders: Glyndŵr, Percy and Mortimer, with military backing from Wales, Scotland and France.

The map doesn't remotely resemble the text description. In particular, the text notes Norfolk as belonging to the north. Does anyone have a better map? Alternately, can anyone confirm if the text is incorrect? Rhialto (talk) 15:52, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the map is definitely wrong. I don't have the skills to edit it, but there are other maps showing the Indenture at Google Images. (Some correct; some not. Be careful out there!)

BPMullins | Talk 00:22, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest you request the map's author @Llywelyn2000: to request changes. Cnbrb (talk) 12:48, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mmm. That comes from an old map, which I can't put my hands on, but there is another, a better map, which I saw the other day; I'll look further into the source of that one. Interesting to note that the English information on this indenture seems to be practically non-existent! I wonder why? This feeble article could certainly do with a better map and text! Llywelyn2000 (talk) 17:10, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting side-note here is that the The Owain Glyndwr Society met at Six Ashes recently, where a commemorative plaque was unvailed. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 16:31, 22 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The text discusses Onennau Meigion in some detail, yet the point at which the tripartite meet is way too north, also mentions Percy's land's including Northamptonshire and Warwickshire, which are clearly not encompassed here. Finally, as stated above, Norfolk was also specifically mentioned as Percy's lands as was a connecting strip of land across the Fens.

R Rees Davies' book does a good job of explaining the Tripartite's borders and why they were where they were. I've looked for a decent map online and, while I can't find anything that could be sourced here (and lack the abilities to make the map myself), a much better map can be found on this discussion page: https://www.owain-glyndwr.wales/word_web_pages/SixAshesNoticeboard.htm

I've removed the map and placed it here for now, it's a shame but it's definitely wrong and it's been nearly a year since there was any updates on this discussion.

Cymrogogoch (talk) 15:20, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hey. I came across this via an automated tool, so I don't have the expertise to evaluate this. However, the map's latest update was on October 24, 2024 and it links to a historical map that looks quite similar. Has this actually been resolved silently? @Llywelyn2000: You updated the image. Thoughts on this controversy? lethargilistic (talk) 12:53, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Lethargilistic, Llywelyn2000 is banned on English Wikipedia, so unlikely he'll reply here, but you could contact them via Welsh Wikipedia or Commons if you wish. But yes, he did change the map quite a while after this discussion, from the disputed version. I reverted the map edits due to current consensus here however. @Rhialto, @Cymrogogoch, is it now more accurate (enough) or another map is still needed/preferred?

However, the map now does appear more aligned with the biographical history society image (as referenced in the file history), compared to the previous version. Looking at the map directly from William Rees' "An historical atlas of Wales from early to modern times" p.g. 126, with clearer resolution, still shows there are some minor errors with the borders (visually, notably historical Cheshire), so maybe some improvements are still needed, but the new one appears to be much closer. Although is Rees' map the best with the borders? are there others? and is the new map version close enough or is some work still needed before adding to the article? Would be great if those little tweaks are done, imo. Dank Jae 21:31, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]