Talk:Too Much and Never Enough

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A fact from Too Much and Never Enough appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 18 July 2020 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that in the tell-all book Too Much and Never Enough, Donald Trump's niece Mary L. Trump alleges that he mistreated his father Fred Trump after Fred developed Alzheimer's disease?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2020/July. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Too Much and Never Enough.

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Imprint

Still no word on which particular imprint of Simon & Schuster is bringing this title out? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Silas10961 (talk • contribs) 20:03, 18 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know if it is on an imprint. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:34, 18 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mary Trump

Is there a reason the author does not have her own entry, buy rather redirected to her book? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.39.60.27 (talk) 22:15, 18 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Because she's not notable. She has avoided the spotlight, except for the interview she gave in 2000 regarding Fred Sr.'s will. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:34, 18 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. There are a handful of news outlets all regurgitating the same scant biographic facts: she is the daughter of Fred Trump Jr., was involved in family drama 20 years ago, and is writing an upcoming book. There is a deleted Linked-In profile and an unverified Twitter account. Cut through all the padding and there is about 2 sentences worth of relevant biographical material appropriate for an encyclopedia. If she receives additional biographical coverage unrelated to the book, then a future stand alone article may be warranted, but not yet. Wikipedia is not a newspaper, and thus doesn't have to trip over itself daily to put new content in front of readers' eyeballs for sweet ad revenue. --Animalparty! (talk) 23:29, 20 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 13:56, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

~~... that in Too Much and Never Enough, Mary L. Trump says that she provided tax information from the Trump family to The New York Times?~~

Reviewed: ~~IOU~~ Template:Did you know nominations/Flag of Saint Vincent and the Grenadines

Created by Muboshgu (talk). Self-nominated at 03:13, 18 June 2020 (UTC).[reply]

ALT1: ... that in Too Much and Never Enough, Mary L. Trump, the niece of President Donald Trump, says that she provided tax information from the Trump family to The New York Times?

~~Consider the above, as it adds some context. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 23:57, 18 June 2020 (UTC)~~[reply]

New enough, long enough. QPQ ~~needed~~ done. Issues below. starship .paint (talk)

Mary L. Trump, a clinical psychologist, is the oldest child of Fred Trump Jr., and the oldest grandchild of Fred Trump Sr. - needs source. Simon & Schuster [1] says: Mary L. Trump holds a PhD from the Derner Institute of Advanced Psychological Studies and taught graduate courses in trauma, psychopathology, and developmental psychology. She lives with her daughter in New York. - no mention that she actually worked as a clinical psychologist.
~~claiming that Fred Sr. was suffering from Alzheimer's disease - source said They claimed Fred Sr. was suffering from dementia.~~
~~Forbes contributors are unreliable. Please get a better source.~~
~~Any issue with recent changes I and others made? [2]~~
I'm thinking we need to insert a "reportedly" into ALT1, which is itself better than the main hook above.
This seems like a good candidate for a July 28 DYK.

@Muboshgu: - see above. starship .paint (talk) 06:03, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No problemo. (Except I don't think the citation in the infobox is necessary). I'll fix that and provide QPQ today. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:06, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

QPQ provided. Now examining bullet points... – Muboshgu (talk) 03:14, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Starship.paint, (1) other sources refer to her as a clinical psychologist. And since she has a PhD in clinical psychology, she is a clinical psychologist. Much like someone with a JD is a lawyer whether or not they're practicing. Some sourcing is saying she was working as a life coach, so I should probably add that... (2) I changed it to dementia, and will probably add this BBC.com source that says that the book will say it was Alzheimer's, and that Trump was predictably Trump about it (3) I took out the Forbes contributor (oops, didn't notice) and conformed the text to sources. (4) Nope. (5) Any hook changes for policy or hook-i-ness are welcomed. (6) Thanks for the date suggestion. Yes, July 28 should make for good reading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Muboshgu (talk • contribs)

Muboshgu - still have to cite that she is the oldest child of Fred Trump Jr., and the oldest grandchild of Fred Trump Sr. I'll think about the hook if I have a better suggestion. starship .paint (talk) 14:57, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Crystal ball hooks. starship .paint (talk) 15:06, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ALT2: ... that the family of Donald Trump unsuccessfully tried to stop his niece from publishing Too Much and Never Enough, a tell-all book?

ALT3: ... that the family of Donald Trump successfully stopped his niece from publishing Too Much and Never Enough, a tell-all book?

Starship.paint, sources have referred to her as the "oldest grandchild" of Fred Sr., but they may be wrong, so I took it out. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:43, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Muboshgu: - is Mary older than her brother Fred III? Evening Standard says no. starship .paint (talk) 12:55, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Starship.paint, fixed – Muboshgu (talk) 16:15, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Muboshgu: - okay good. Shall we wait for the hearing of 10 July to see if a better blurb can be found? starship .paint (talk) 02:40, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Starship.paint, idk. Seems like the book will be published as scheduled as S&S is not party to the suit. But the more discovery happens, the more silliness may erupt. I'm happy with any hook that is fit for the main page and has a chance at >5k views. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:07, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ALT4: ... that in the tell-all book Too Much and Never Enough, Donald Trump's niece alleges that he mistreated his father after his father contracted Alzheimer's disease?

@Muboshgu: - how about the above? starship .paint (talk) 14:32, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Starship.paint, works for me. BTW the publication date has been pushed up.[3] – Muboshgu (talk) 18:07, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

- okay, article is within policy. ALT4 approved for July 14, the book release date. DYK runners would that be possible? starship .paint (talk) 00:33, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Starship.paint: Per Rule H2, you cannot approve your own hook. Could another reviewer take a look at this? Yoninah (talk) 07:00, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure whether this counts as me giving a new hook altogether, but I'm opting for ALT4 with some revised phrasing, namely "that in the tell-all book Too Much and Never Enough, Donald Trump's niece Mary L. Trump alleges that he mistreated his father Fred Trump after Fred contracted Alzheimer's disease?". There's no good reason to WP:EASTEREGG Fred's name by hiding with it with pipes, plus we can be straightforward with naming who the book's author is. Unless anybody has objections, I'm marking this as approved when supported by The New York Times. It is intriguing, neutral, and free of copyright. Article also is more than long enough and was submitted to DYK within a week of creation. QPQ additionally has been provided. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 03:23, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Conflict with Trump Family article

This article claims she is the oldest child of the President's brother Fred Jr., and oldest grandchild of Fred Trump Sr. But the Trump Family article says she was born in 1965, and has an older brother (Frederick Christ Trump III) born in 1963. It also claims she has a cousin, David William Desmond, born to Maryanne Trump in 1960. This makes her the second child of the President's brother Fred, and third grandchild of her grandfather. —MiguelMunoz (talk) 23:37, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Merging allegations section into synopsis.

The "Allegations" section here should be more integrated into the synopsis of the book. --Bangalamania (talk) 23:54, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Claims of Joe Shapiro talking the SAT for Trump

The article makes the correct claim that Mary did accuse Joe Shapiro of taking Donald’s SAT exam. It did however fail to mention that Pam Shriver, who was Joe Shapiro’s wife has not only denied the claims to Mary, but to a reporter in the past as well. There is absolutely no proof of this claim other than Mary Trump writing it in her salacious book. With Pam Shriver denying it I don’t understand how the claim can be left in the section without sharing Pam Shrivers claim of her lying. I do not suggest the claim be removed. Only add Pam Shriver’s claim that what Mary says is false. WhowinsIwins (talk) 04:51, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mary clarified in interviews that the Joe Shapiro media outlets hunted down was not the Joe she was referring to. We can add these details but I think the best course of action is to leave it as is, since the allegation is neither debunked nor independently confirmed. We just report on what's said in the book. Egawaryuki21 (talk) 10:55, 23 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Too Much and Never Enough Front Cover (2020 first edition).jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:22, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Add tape recordings

I added a subsection on tape recordings released by Mary Trump earlier today, since they are in response to the newspaper's (WashPo) questioning regarding the source of allegations made in the book, and therefore directly related to the book. Egawaryuki21 (talk) 10:55, 23 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, but I moved this new talk page section to the bottom. - DVdm (talk) 12:13, 23 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

“Robert died one month later…”

Karma is still Queen. Bearian (talk) 15:17, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]