Talk:Time's Up (organization)

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criticism section

Much of the second paragraph seems to be a criticism of Hollywood, not of the Time's Up organization? —valereee (talk) 15:45, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Removed the criticism of the Hollywood/the movement as opposed to of the the organization. —valereee (talk) 17:43, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Request about Time's Up Legal Defense Fund content

Hello, I have a follow up request from the edits made to the Organization section. I'm making this request as an employee of the TIME'S UP Foundation to make sure I'm following the rules on Wikipedia for conflict of interest. The second paragraph of the Organization section now discusses the Time's Up Legal Defense Fund, rather than it having its own section. I think that this may create some confusion about the operation of the fund, which is separate from the overall Time's Up organization and industry groups.

My request is: could the legal defense fund content be updated and made into a subsection of Organization? Splitting it out with its own heading, and adding some details to explain its operations would help readers to understand how the fund works and how it relates to Time's Up while not being under the organization's operational umbrella.

I have a draft in my user space here: User:Hope_with_Time's_Up/Time's_Up_Legal_Defense_Fund_Draft

The draft uses some of the existing content and also expands the details, to give a more thorough overview of the fund.

Thanks again for any help! Hope with Time's Up (talk) 14:08, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

The LDF is administered by a different organization, and TU just raises money for it, is that correct? —valereee (talk) 14:03, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Valereee: It's a little more complicated than that. TIME’S UP Legal Defense Fund (TULDF) was established with 100% of the funds raised from the initial 2018 Go Fund Me campaign. It is housed and administered by the National Women’s Law Center. TIME’S UP Foundation and National Women’s Law Center jointly support ongoing efforts to raise awareness about the TULDF and to raise additional funds to support its work. Due to that, it definitely makes sense to keep information on this page about it and how it relates to TIME'S UP. Though I imagine in the future it might have its own page, potentially, right now the sourcing about it is also about TIME'S UP as a whole. Does that help? Thank you, Hope with Time's Up (talk) 14:18, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Hey, @Hope with Time's Up, sure, but it doesn't convince me we need all that in the article or that it needs a section. Time's Up raises money for the defense fund, which helps women with their legal costs. We maybe could add that the two organizations work together to raise awareness, if that's in a source somewhere, but the rest of what's in your sandbox is about the other entity. If the legal defense fund needs its own article, that's maybe worth exploring -- if even three of those sources are significant coverage of the LDF itself, it's certainly a candidate worth looking at -- but we aren't going to shoehorn that in here when it's about a different subject. —valereee (talk) 10:18, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

I've rewritten the paragraph using language from your sandbox version; does that look more accurate? —valereee (talk) 10:37, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

I've created Time's Up Legal Defense Fund. —valereee (talk) 14:40, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Valereee: Thanks so much for making those updates and creating the TULDF page! Aside from one small typo in the paragraph under Organization, it all looks great. Would you be able to fix the typo? There's one instance of "TULDP" rather than TULDF in the paragraph.

I also wanted to ask if you would be able to update the first sentence of Organization to say Monifa Bandele is the interim CEO, following Tina Tchen stepping down? The CNN source at the end of Criticism mentions this, as does this Wall Street Journal article (as well as other coverage). Thank you, Hope with Time's Up (talk) 14:59, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

We can update it when a new CEO is chosen, but unless a position is very important -- like acting attorney general of the US or something -- or unless the acting person is notable, this is trivia here. —valereee (talk) 15:06, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Ah, I understand. Could that first sentence of Organization be updated to say that Tchen was the President and CEO until August 31, 2021? That way, readers won't be confused. Thanks, Hope with Time's Up (talk) 16:05, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

 Done —valereee (talk) 19:28, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks @Valereee: That looks good to me. Hope with Time's Up (talk) 19:56, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Request about Impact content

Hello, I have a final request (for right now) for this page. I'm making this request as an employee of the TIME'S UP Foundation to make sure I'm following the rules on Wikipedia for conflict of interest. Given that there has been a fair amount of coverage about what Time's Up has been able to achieve since the organization began, I wanted to propose some content to provide readers with some information about that impact.

My request is: would it be ok to add a new Impact section to this page? The section can provide an overview of areas and events where Time's Up had a major impact.

I have a draft in my user space here: User:Hope_with_Time's_Up/Time's_Up_Impact_Draft

Thanks again for any help! Hope with Time's Up (talk) 19:57, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi Hope with Time's Up, let me dig into this and feel free to tag any other editors who have worked on the page. There's a lot here, so need to analyze a bit deeper. There's definitely a mix of here of direct causation and correlation and--while I appreciate the incredible impact of Time's Up--we need to ensure we demonstrate exact causation and citations for those notes. I'll try to start with the least complicated statements and build up from there. --FeldBum (talk) 19:31, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks @FeldBum: I appreciate this is a fair amount to review and I'm looking forward to your feedback when you've been able to dig into this. Thanks, Hope with Time's Up (talk) 19:39, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

I completely appreciate the nudge. Wikipedia is a hobby for me, so I can fall behind or forget that I'm working on pages. Let me dive back into this, Hope with Time's Up --FeldBum (talk) 15:30, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks again @FeldBum: I just noticed you'd suggested also pinging some others who've been active on the page. @Valereee, JBchrch, Ritchie333, ARoseWolf, and Innisfree987: Would any of you also want to take a look at this content for review? Thanks, Hope with Time's Up (talk) 13:58, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Hope with Time's Up, my view is that you should stop interacting with this page. I don’t like the appearance of Wikipedia becoming part of Time’s Up’s damage control efforts which how this all starts to come across to me. I am rarely this blunt so I understand some of my colleagues may take exception but I think it’s a matter of Wikipedia’s integrity. Innisfree987 (talk) 16:44, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

@Innisfree987: I appreciate your reply and this candid feedback. I understand your point of view, which is why I've stayed away from making any requests related to any of the edits around criticism of Time's Up, or any of the edits made regarding the recent announcements, as it felt better to allow Wikipedia's community to decide what is most appropriate. The Impact draft I've offered here was written much earlier this year (I finalized it in late May) and it is the final piece that I wanted to share with the community. In general, my requests here have focused on fixing issues in the page, and offering new content that was given a lot of coverage in media sources. If there's anything that the community feels is too much, I will understand if trims need to be made. Thanks, Hope with Time's Up (talk) 21:02, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Hope with Time's Up, thanks for your collegial reply. I’ll try to explain where I’m coming from; apologies that it got a little long.
From my perspective, your sense (which I agree with) that you should avoid the criticism just highlights the intractability of the WP:COI problem here. The result is front-loading the entry with a large amount of highly detailed (too much so for an encyclopedic summary, IMO) favorable coverage, while the criticism doesn’t get the same treatment. This leads to a neutrality issue with the entry overall.
Moreover I am concerned that the highly detailed and univocally favorable additions, while all sourced, may be leaving out any equally verifiable unfavorable material from the same or contemporaneous sources, creating a gigantic (and realistically, unlikely ever to be accomplished) task for unpaid editors, to re-read all the sources for WP:NPOV presentation.
Both problems would only be made worse by the addition of another large and entirely favorable section, particularly one making claims about the organization’s impact (about which another editor has already raised a concern w/r/t attributing unverifiable causality).
As stories come out (e.g.) about how long the organization has had difficulties, the fact that this has been in the works for months does not lessen the appearance of a conflict. I am only one editor and we work by consensus so I’ll be interested to hear if others have a different view, but for me the best route forward at this point would be to leave the entry’s development to uninvolved editors. Innisfree987 (talk) 04:54, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

I've closed the request, as this does seem to have significant WP:UNDUE issues, as well as the fact that at this stage in the game, adding a section on impact would probably not be beneficial for the company anyway, so I doubt there's still interest from Time's Up about this. Yitz (talk) 03:55, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Sreed103.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 04:20, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 January 2020 and 8 May 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Cmansell3.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 04:20, 18 January 2022 (UTC)