Talk:The First Take

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Recent changes to this article have caused many of the numbers in the "Date" column to link to WP:Disambiguation pages. The dates should not be wikilinked per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers.— Rod ^talk 18:27, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Online Bus reservation system 2405:201:E013:8050:987B:1838:CB7A:D725 (talk) 13:09, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Repeated deletion of sourced paragraph

I makes me sad that a sourced paragraph which is stating proven facts has been deleted repeatedly. The paragraph
"On October 20, 2024, the YouTube channel Wings of Pegasus demonstrated that The First Take had engaged in fraud by using pitch correction in videos, contradicting the channel’s claim that it features unedited performances."
states proven facts and is connected to discussions about the public claims of "The First Take" that are real and relevant.
Hinnerk R (talk) 12:34, 30 November 2024 (UTC) Sorry, I forgot to include the reference, so here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og2Bcm-ZTVs Hinnerk R (talk) 14:06, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was very sorry to see that User:Yeeno again deleted the said paragraph without discussion, starting an edit war. I created this section in accordance with Wikipedia guidelides to clear disagreements. As per WP:VIDEOREF: "The appropriateness of any source depends on the context. In general, the best sources have a professional structure in place for checking or analyzing facts, legal issues, evidence, and arguments. YouTube and similar sites do not have editorial oversight engaged in scrutinizing content, so editors need to watch out for the potential unreliability of the user uploading the video." (Quote from today's version). So, in contrast to User:Yeenos opinion (and actions) YouTube videos are not always regarded as unreliable. The "Wings of Pegasus" YouTube Channel has gained a solid reputation for having a professional structure in place for checking or [in this case and] analyzing facts, for example in the controversy about Ken Tamplin. It does have a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy (see WP:QUESTIONED).
On top of that, "The First Take" is itself "just a YouTube channel". It is an advertising platform owned by Sony Music. In [their channel trailer] they state some pretty bold claims about the nature of their content, which have been proven false - beyond any reasonable doubt (see above). Sony Music might be somewhat unhappy about the fact based analysis of their videos on "The First Take", but that should not concern Wikipedia editors.
Hinnerk R (talk) 17:47, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Hinnerk R, I appreciate you starting a discussion on this matter and apologize for not noticing it earlier. However, you have yet to present any reliable sources to back up your claim that "The "Wings of Pegasus" YouTube Channel has gained a solid reputation for having a professional structure in place for checking or [in this case and] analyzing facts" beyond linking to another Wikipedia page containing a section (link to diff), which frankly, shouldn't exist at all given the high standards required byWP:BLPRS (which is why WP:OTHERCONTENT is listed as an argument to avoid). Nonetheless, the same standard applies in both cases: exceptional claims require exceptional sourcing - in these cases these claims presented would qualify as "surprising or apparently important claims not covered by multiple mainstream sources"; if you believe a claim "exposes" something about the subject, then you require multiple reliable sources to back it up (for example, a news article making the same claim or covering Wings of Pegasus making that claim), not just a single YouTube video, no matter how well produced it may be. Yeeno (talk) 01:48, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Yeeno thank you for your reply. If the Wikipedia standards are that high, neither the Article Ken Tamplin nor The First Take should exist. I have issued proposed deletion requests for both.

Hinnerk R (talk) 14:14, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I believe you are confusing noteworthiness with notability. Different guidelines govern the existence of articles and the content within them. A YouTube channel or person can have enough coverage in reliable about them to warrant an article, but the content of the article is governed by what is said in those articles (see WP:WEIGHT). Per Wikipedia:Reliable sources, "Wikipedia articles should be based on reliable, published sources, making sure that all majority and significant minority views that have appeared in those sources are covered (see Wikipedia:Neutral point of view). If no reliable sources can be found on a topic, Wikipedia should not have an article on it." Yeeno (talk) 04:55, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]