Talk:The British Grenadiers

Rationale:

This song is always almost always referred to as such. It is entered as such in anthologies , whether of words or music. It is also referred to as such in commentary, e.g., the Regimental Quick March of the Grenadier Guards is "The British Grenadiers." A redirect should exist under British Grenadiers for clarity. … Please share your opinion at Talk:British Grenadiers. --FClef 17:13, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

PLEASE NOTE: I have read the Rule of Thumb regarding definite articles and the definite article is warranted in this case. -- FClef 23:36, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Survey

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

• Support, as the creator of this article, I did not know of the alternative name, and a redirect will work fine. Rshu 18:14, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

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COPIED FROM DISCUSSION ON WIKIPEDIA'S help desk where I visited earlier today 14 June. -- FClef 23:33, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

But note: Wikipedia:Naming conventions#Avoid the definite article ("the") and the indefinite article ("a"/"an") at the beginning of the page name. More info at: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (definite and indefinite articles at beginning of name). Thanks/wangi 21:18, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Understood; but notwithstanding this, the definite article here is an integral part of the title. I will copy your comment, for which many thanks, together with this reply to the discussion section of the talk page of the article and refer you there for further discussion over the next five days. -- FClef 23:29, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I have carried out the suggested move and therefore deleted the Proposed Move notice. -- FClef 14:10, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

"In the movies The Patriot and Empire of the Sun "The British Grenadiers" is played." I seem to remember it being played in "Waterloo", as well. 68.234.47.231 03:24, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, if it was played in that movie, then add it to the list. Rshu 13:24, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

It seems to exist two different versions of this tune. As an example you could compare the version played in Barry Lyndon with the version in The Patriot. The variation comes after the first repetetive part. Is this actually two different songs or just variations from different eras or what? 80.217.105.223 (talk) 09:32, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

==Italic text

--fusees-- Is there any evidence besides that one website that does not site its source that "fusees" in this song means a Fusile (firearm)? because it would seem more logical that what is meant is a fusee, which has two definitions that make more sense: a)A combustible fuse for detonating explosives. b)A friction match with a large head capable of burning in a wind.

--24.202.13.194 (talk) 00:10, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

No. 'Fusee' is a very common C18 term referring to lighter muskets carried by grenadiers and light infantry in British Army as well as by junior infantry officers in general. Moreover, 'fusil' initially referred to the first flintlock muskets which obviated the need for slow matches and musket supports and were thus more convenient and safer for assault troops carrying explosive devices. Obviously every soldier, not just the leaders, would have carried ignition devices to light the grenade fuses.

JF42 (talk) 08:28, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Wilhelmus?

Today it is played at special events, as a musical tribute to the Ministry of Defence and as a substitute for the Wilhelmus in absence of the monarch. What has the Wilhelmus got ot do with it? If the British monarch is meant then I can't really believe that the Dutch national anthem is played as a substitute, and if the Dutch monarch is meant: I'm quite sure that in his/her absence other tunes than 'The British Grenadiers' are played. Mvdleeuw (talk) 13:01, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

'Historical terms' etc- Errors

Several mistaken assumptions here.

The 'pouches' were the large satchels that contained the hand grenades

To clarify- 'Louped clothes' refers to button loops; the exaggerated 'lace' binding around button holes that extended across the breast of the coat. This was part of the 'grenadier' fashion first seen when these units were adopted in western Europe circa 1670. Along with tall caps and moustaches, the uniform imitated the costume of eastern European troops, particularly those serving in the Austrian army. These in turn may have been influenced by uniforms of elite troops of the Ottoman Turks. This was intended to create an impression of fierceness and barbarity.

Shoulder wings were a distinction added in the 18th century by which time most British infantry had lace binding on the lapels of their coats.

'toe row row' – this simply mimics the beat of drums

JF42 (talk) 08:42, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Flanders and Swann version

Article currently [1] reads in part Some people like a motorbike, Some say a tram for me or for bonnie Annie Laurie, deliberately set to the same melody ("Annie Laurie" being First World War slang for a 3-ton army lorry). Another F&S version begins "Some speak of a Lagonda, some like a smart MG." I assume this is a reference to the Flanders and Swann song A Transport of Delight, from which these words are taken. The prologue to this song does start out with the first line of the tune of The British Grenadiers, but then rather than repeating that line it proceeds to a number of variations on it, with modulations.

Firstly, to call this a version is a bit of a stretch. It is based on the first line, yes, but it's a new composition.

Secondly, even if it were accurate (which it's not), isn't this original research anyway? Andrewa (talk) 11:47, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

'The Granadeer's March',

"The first known association of the tune with the regiment is during 1706 as 'The Granadeer's March',"

The writer may want to check his source. "The Grenadiers March" is a different tune, a Slow March played during the annual Trooping of the Colour by the Foot Guards during the stage of the parade when the Colour is actually trooped.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFHYkRZ_n8w

JF42 (talk) 22:58, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

2018 Update

I'm linking to this page from a rewrite of the 1695 Siege of Namur and I wanted to make sure it was current.

I've updated this to include additional references while some of the original points were at variance with those sources. The link to the Foot Guards re-enactor website wasn't working so I took it out but I've replaced it with others.

Hope that's ok.

Robinvp11 (talk) 11:02, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

== Popular culture

The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers since 1763...

That regiment was raised in 1968 by the amalgamation of the Royal Fusiliers, the Lancashire Fusiliers, the Royal Warwickshire Fusiliers and the Royal Northumberland Fusiliers. And in 1763 of those foot regiments the only fusilier unit was the 7th Royal Fusiliers. The other units were granted the title of fusiliers in the 19th and 20th centuries.