Talk:Taleb Al-Abdulmohsen

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Pro Greater Israel Views

It is important to mention the suspect was a staunch supporter of Greater Israel, calling for an Israel from the Nile to Euphrates in the middle east, effectively devouring great parts of its neighboring countries. Celebrated Israel's recent occupation of parts of Syria. His ultra-Zionist views are evident in his social media accounts. 78.40.176.221 (talk) 09:37, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, he was not, he was staunchly anti Israel and pro-Hamaas.

here is an image of tweet from his account

https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestinian_Violence/s/ShlGslR352 Lols314 (talk) 18:39, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A Google translated tweet from random Reddit thread... He was known to praise pro-Zionist far-right figures like Geert Wilders and pushing Islamophobia while being "pro-Hamas" (according to you). Doesn't add up. 2001:4C4E:2493:9800:E399:7A2F:E21F:D6E7 (talk) 21:42, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can you source that? Bc it’s common for people to lie.

https://www.indiatoday.in/amp/world/story/ex-muslims-claim-germany-magdeburg-christmas-market-attack-saudi-atheist-warn-of-taqiyyah-conspiracy-2653579-2024-12-22 Lols314 (talk) 13:19, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I read the article and they don't actually assert anything. They just speculate if he was secretly a Muslim, seeing how strange the crime is. It does not seem a BLP viable claim for now. Maybe in a few weeks.

Speederzzz (Talk) (Stalk) 15:07, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://x.com/DrTalebJawad/status/1723984908400328869

here is the original tweet. Based on the ‘so you can taste it’ talk and his other comments regarding the Israel, I suspect that he is mocking a pro-Palestinian/Hamas (not saying they r the same thing but the original comment was deleted) person Cherry567 (talk) 15:12, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fake atheist

(non-admin closure) Devolving into a WP:FORUM. Please present reliable sources supporting the content you want added. Nythar (💬-🍀) 18:57, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The man has been exposed to be an Islamist who supported ISIS and Hamas, but pretended to be an atheist. The MSM has fallen for his lies. See these Twitter posts:

https://x.com/Moraqeb2020/status/1870281930983219599?t=-Qk8vnK-wYotE3GNyYf0gQ

https://x.com/Salansar1/status/1870382338040848634?t=YuaCrqluxHDyrTDlOHEX1A

Linkin Prankster (talk) 15:41, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Linkin Prankster, what are we supposed to do with these claims? We can't add anything to the article unless the content is supported by reliable sources. Regards, Nythar (💬-🍀) 17:05, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lmao you clowns consider CNN as reliable source 😂 2A02:AB88:3800:E880:6147:EF99:C526:EA4B (talk) 17:27, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

more reliable than random twitter accounts

Speederzzz (Talk) (Stalk) 17:35, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That same CNN which showed a torturer of Assad regime as some innocent prisoner? Linkin Prankster (talk) 17:53, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Was it purposefully done like Fox News (Read: Faux News) and others do? Theofunny (talk) 18:26, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Odd claims posted to Twitter could be completely true or completely made up, and it may be difficult to tell when it comes to a confusing case like this one. If these claims were published at CNN, on the other hand, the likelihood that they're true is much higher because CNN and their counterparts have certain standards that are nonexistent at Twitter. And while they aren't infallible and they do have bias issues (like most news media organizations), they're the best we've got. A talk page is a place where editors discuss potential improvements to the corresponding article; like I said, if there isn't a reliable source presenting these claims as facts, they can't be added to the article. Nythar (💬-🍀) 18:41, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He has tweets in support of Hamas

https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestinian_Violence/s/vOhUWWlM7R

How can he be an atheist Lols314 (talk) 18:47, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please refer to reliable sources and his own X profile for Wikipedia editing.Theofunny (talk) 18:51, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reliable sources overwhelmingly state him as a far right Islamophobic extremist. Theofunny (talk) 18:28, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

His passport

https://archive.ph/fgyZV 176.7.1.191 (talk) 17:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Article (co-)written by him?

Could this be an article he has worked on? Maxeto0910 (talk) 18:56, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How’s that relevant Lols314 (talk) 19:37, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It could be notable if this would be his dissertation. At least in the German Wikipedia, it's not unusual to include it as a part of someone's biography, though I don't know if it's like this in the English Wikipedia as well. However, we'd still need more clarity for such a statement. Maxeto0910 (talk) 19:55, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Confirmed, his email is there on the website. I just searched it on Google and the first result was his X.id, where he had posted it in 2016. Aliyiya5903 (talk) 08:12, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ideological set pieces

Security policy scholar Peter Neumann (King's College) pointed out that Taleb Al-Abdulmohsen has "cobbled together" a private worldview from a mixture of ideological bits and pieces. All of his statements indicate that he saw religious and political Islam as a danger, as represented by right-wing radicals. His accounts were followed by a number of German and other neo-Nazis (AfD politicians and others). He sees the AfD, with its Islamophobic stance, as the only good political party.^[1]

All of these set pieces should be summarized in a conservative manner in one continuous text. The trigger for the copycat attack of the Breitscheidplatz attack can also be caused by Taleb Al-Abdulmohsen's private or psychological situation. It's important to write that we don't know his motives (yet)! --FederalElection (talk) 10:08, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP: EXTREMIST and WP: BLPCRIME motivations

I deleted a recent edit to the introduction paragraph labeling him an extremist, speculating about his motives, and claiming that he was motivated by anti-Islamic animus. WP: EXTREMIST, WP: BLPCRIME, and is also tabolid speculation for now. RomanianObserver41 (talk) 19:49, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a tabloid speculation at all, it's supported by a lot of reliable sources in the body as well the lead. Extremists like Anders Breivik and Martin Sellner as described as such. Please stop including your personal opinions and original research in wikipedia. Theofunny (talk) 19:54, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No source also claims that he was primarily known for his anti-Islamic views. (Which appear to be relatively ineffective.) The only thing that he is especially known for now is being the alleged suspect of the car attack. Calling him an "extremist" is a WP: EXTREMIST violation and not even used as descriptions for the heads of ISIS or Osama Bin Laden. RomanianObserver41 (talk) 19:54, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The policies you state don't even support what you are saying. And he also not referred to as an "extremists" as your claim. Theofunny (talk) 19:56, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"best known for his extreme anti-Islamic views"

He's obviously best known for the car attack.
Extreme/extremist should not be used.

RomanianObserver41 (talk) 20:02, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Osama is described as a militant leader, what point are you even trying to prove. You are just WEASELing. Theofunny (talk) 19:57, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

1.) Anders Breivik has been convicted. The suspect has not. Breivik's page also doesn't list him as an "extremist". It lists him as a terrorist similar to the Unabomber. If he is convicted of terrorism then of course that could be added.

2.) Martin Seller's page does not list him as an extremist. Although I'd obviously classify neo-Nazism as extremism.

3.) The sources don't state that he was best known for anti-Islamic views. He indisputably has them. But he's best known for the car attack - by far - with everything else getting relatively low attention.

4.) As no motivation has been stated (yet) or been accused of (yet) it's a violation of WP: BLPCRIME.

5.) He was indisputably a militant leader. Calling Osama or this alleged suspect an "extremist" is a loaded term. Doesn't matter how sicking you or I find their beliefs.

We can wait for the dust to settle and there's no requirement on Wikipedia to instantly update it with breaking information. RomanianObserver41 (talk) 20:00, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He is described as "being known for his extreme ..... activism" as he was a prominent activist before the attack. No one is ascribing any motive for his actions. Editors aren't investigators. A lot of sources in the body state what views he was known for. Theofunny (talk) 20:03, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We are not investigators. That's why the introduction paragraphs should only include the fact that he's the primary suspect of the attacks and not mention his views.

Several notable individuals have speculated that: 1.) His politics are incoherent (like many killers) 2.) Islam had nothing to do with it. Rather, Germany's treatment of Saudi Arabian refugees 3.) Personal matters 4.) He lied about his views. RomanianObserver41 (talk) 20:10, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please state those "notable individuals" and sources you are referring to and Islam not having any connection with it. Even the prosecutors didn't rule out anything and just suspected that it "could have been" due to treatment of Saudi refugees. Theofunny (talk) 20:12, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

1.) "In media appearances, Abdulmohsen has presented himself as an ex-Muslim activist against Islam." would work for now. "Extremist" or implying a motive should be avoided.

2.) The Tagesschau source for one. It appears he had syncretistic views. (e.g. It's very possible he supported same-sex marriage but also believed all Muslims should die because the vast majority oppose its legality. Many mass murders, are also, to put it simply: insane.)

3.) You're right. They didn't rule it out. They also didn't confirm it or imply it either. RomanianObserver41 (talk) 20:23, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait for other editors to weigh in. And "best known" should be changed to "known". Theofunny (talk) 20:09, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He wasn't a prominent figure in anti-Islamic or Saudi refugee resettlement. "Known" in the introduction gives off the implication that it was the most likely motive. Right now, the prosecutors have alleged that it was about the treatment of Saudi refugees in Germany, but haven't brought up his politics or religion otherwise.

If you noticed I haven't removed his views from the main meat of the article. RomanianObserver41 (talk) 20:12, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I’ve restored the edits because it’s based on reliable sources. The terms used aren’t meant to speculate on motives but to accurately summarize what’s documented. I’ve also revised the wording to better align with Wikipedia’s guidelines. Removing sourced material entirely, though, could affect the article’s accuracy and neutrality Aliyiya5903 (talk) 07:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He was just described and no motive was alleged by Wikipedia editors Theofunny (talk) 19:54, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Year of photo

Just because his passport was issued in 2008 doesn't necessarily imply that the photo used on it has to be from the same year. The reference cited doesn't verify the year of the photo either. Maxeto0910 (talk) 19:58, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"controversial views on politics."

"controversial views on politics." what does it even mean ? Intro just seems to waterdown reality and facts. ProudWatermelon (talk) 10:28, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I agree. Numerous sources describe him as being a far-right activist. Theofunny (talk) 13:16, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pre-alleged murder sources which describe him

Sources pre-attack that focus on him:

BBC News video piece on his website and what he does from 2019, how his website was a "go to resource" for refugees

The Jerusalem Post piece from 2019 on him as a refugee activist

2019 FAZ piece

2017 piece on him from the New Arab

He was covered before this. With the attack it makes this more complicated. Probably a few more, but a lot of it is in German and there's 50+ more articles that quote him, and it's mixed in with breaking news from today so it's hard to sort out.

Credits: PARAKANYAA

Maybe these can be worked on?

Theofunny (talk) 13:15, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

^ https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/gesellschaft/neumann-magdeburg-interview-100.html

[1] ttps://www.tagesschau.de/inland/gesellschaft/neumann-magdeburg-interview-100.html

[1]