Talk:Spätzle

Old comment

Pronunciation please? —Keenan Pepper 00:55, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

hmm...difficult...I would say Sp(as in "spell")e(as in "knell" never as in "seed")tz(like ts)le(again as in spell...but a bit less "open")81.201.224.13 10:57, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

That isn't much help. I was hoping for something like IPA. —Keenan Pepper 17:35, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Something like [ʃpɛətsli]. At least, that's how my Bavarian grandmother pronounced it. There's almost certainly slight regional variations. -dmmaus 01:15, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

The [i] ending is typical for Swabian/Alemanic dialect pronouncation. In High German however Spätzle it is pronounced like [ʃpætslə].

There seems to be quite a few variations in the pronunciation -- my own relatives say it two different ways (i.e. eiding with an "ie" sound, or an "le" sound) -- so I'm going to leave someone else to do the IPA. Zorath 17:35, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

"Sp" would be pronounced as "Shp" so it is more like "Shpetsle" Norum 08.09.2006

Caption

The caption that reads "dried convenience food, not the real thing" seems a bit off? 24.164.77.105 00:06, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Measurements

How much is two hints of salt? Is that half a clue?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.173.177.55 (talk) 14:27, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Dumplings

Spätzle are indeed dumplings, as dumplings are merely “small balls or strips of boiled or steamed dough”. The Maggi product is even marketed as such. Additionally, a Google search finds hundreds of references to Spätzle as dumplings. Elcobbola 05:47, 11 November 2007 (UTC) KevinGER (talk) 15:16, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

"spätzle" are not regarded as a dumpling. Dumplings are rarely used in the Swabian cooking. Maggi does make dumplings, but not spätzle, which are considered pasta or noodles in Germany.

Spätzle are in Baden-Württemberg usually seen as a thing of their own, they are neither dumpling nor noodle/pasta 78.42.252.102 (talk) 20:25, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

noodles / pasta

I'd avoid calling them noodles, as the word noodle tends to refer to the long, thin pasta in East Asian cuisine. I've changed the text. "Spätzle ... (also Spätzli or Knöpfle) are a type of egg pasta or dumpling, typically found in cuisine from southern Germany and regions of neighboring countries" Huseyx2 (talk) 10:59, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree; that's a good distinction to make. I’ve tweaked the wording in the preparation section to match. Ɛƚƈơƅƅơƚɑ _talk 14:49, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I changed "pasta" back to "noodle". Pasta refers to noodles formed in the high Italian style; Chinese and Japanese noodles certainly are noodles and not pasta. There's a graduation between noodle and dumpling, though; that's harder to work out. Some spaetzle are long, like thick spaghetti or certain oriental noodles. (This article needs a more global POV, by the way. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a dictionary, so this article should include noodles that evidently are spaetzle even if not called spaetzle.) --Una Smith (talk) 05:25, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

KevinGER (talk) 15:12, 1 November 2008 (UTC) Actually - in the German Languuage there is no difference between noodles and pasta. In Northern Germany Spätzle are called "Nudeln" and in Southern Germany "Spätzle" - Generally all pasta and noodles are called in Hochdeutsch "Nudeln" - A Spätzle is generally not considered as a dumpling.

well Spätzle are NOT Nudeln, in Southern Germany Spätzle are usually not considered to be Nudeln ("noodle/pasta") they are Spätzle (they ain't dumpling either) 78.42.252.102 (talk) 20:22, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Italian translation

The italian rough translation to spazzato is actually a past tense verb. It should be changed to "spazzare" which literally means "to break/split". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mattycoze (talk • contribs) 06:47, 6 May 2008 (UTC) Mattycoze (talk) 06:52, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Milk?

Must be some goofy person with a Northern German background. If you want the real deal - never milk, only water! Kd4ttc (talk) 05:15, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Spätzli

I'd challenge the statement that "spätzli" is a north german term or even used there. I've lived in northern Germany and I have never heard it. I'd be surprised if there even was a word which is specific to the north since it isn't a common dish there. IMHO it'd simply be called "Spätzle" like almost anywhere else. The "-li" sounds more like it is an allemannic/swiss variant. --Eistreter (talk) 09:36, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, "Spätzli" is like "Knoepfli" a Swiss term. The suffix -li is typical Swiss and uncommon in Northern Germany. -- Primusinterparem (talk) 09:59, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Preparation order of dough and scraping of the dough

To the best of my knoledge the dough is prepared by mixing the flour, eggs and salt first, then add handwarm water to reach the desired thickness, not the other way round as in the article.

As for scraping of the dough into the boiling water no special device is needed(for spätzle, for knöpfle you need one). You can scrape them from a (thin and not to wide) cutting board using a dough scraper or even a knive(if the blade is not curved). This is the traditional method but requires some practice though. Fjbeyer (talk) 20:56, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

No device is needed for preparing knoephla/knopfle except for a knife or scissors to cut the dumplings from the rolled dough. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.66.179.205 (talk) 23:07, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Issues with the article

Hey,

reading the article I found several things that need correction or changes. Note that I am German/Swabian, so maybe there is some bias with my comments.

• Introductory sentence:
  • To my knowledge (I am a Swabian), Spätzle are common in Southern Germany and the alps. The introductory sentence currently is an enumeration of places where Spätzle are found. And "Spaetzli" is alemanic/swiss german.
  • The introductory sentence should state that "Spätzle" is clearly a dialectal word. "-le" being the diminutive suffix. I don't think it would hurt to hint at the "literal" translation: "Spätzle" (swabian) -> "Spätzlein" (standard german) -> little sparrow. (Note that nobody uses spätzlein, but I have many elder relatives who refer to spätzle as "Spatzen" - "sparrows").
  • Knöpfle are small, compactly button-shaped spätzle (Knöpfle -> "Knöpflein" -> small button). I think they are more common in the allgäu/vorarlberg regions, but I am unsure.
• Etymology:
  • The attribution to "spät" is not based on the citation and seems ridiculous to me. In contrast to italian pasta, Spätzle ought not to be "al dente", thus it does not hurt if they rest a few minutes before serving. Furthermore the statement is referring to pizza - very strange.
• preparation
  • This paragraph is sadly totally unstructured and confusing. I would start to describe very briefly the traditional way of making spätzle. Ingredients being flour, water, egg, salt and the scraping of the spätzle into hot boiling water. Then the Spätzle are skimmed.
  • The article states that you pour the flour into the liquid. In my experience the opposite is true. I suppose pouring the flour into the liquid would produce a chunky dough.
  • Sure some spätzle dough may contain the listed spices (dill, etc.) except for nutmeg I have never tasted/seen this.
  • Leberspätzle are common, so is spinache in spätzle.
  • I would suggest to put all the helper devices into an own section. Noteworthy would be that those devices are generally accepted even with old people.
  • Commercially Spätzle are available not only dry, but also precooked in the supermarket refridgerators

I don't know of spätzles counterparts in hungary and slovakia. This is probably one of the main reasons why this article is more or less centered around the german variety. I would say that they earn an own article.

Comparing spätzle to dumplings, gnocchi is giving me the creeps, by the way. I consider dumplings to be Klöße. But maybe my dictionary is not accurate.

--129.13.72.197 (talk) 00:51, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

I now changed the article to incorporate some of my ideas from above. --129.13.72.197 (talk) 01:26, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

hi!

the issue Knöpfle are small, compactly button-shaped spätzle is still not solved. in the german wikipedia knoepfle and spaetzle are also not treated as the same thing. so i guess, this should be corrected in this article. -- seth (talk) 11:25, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

Knöpfle = Nokedli?

When I look at the picture and read the description, I instantly think of the Hungarian nokedli. They look exactly the same and are (probably) made of the same ingredients, so what's the difference? And why isn't there an article on nokedli? Nederbörd (talk) 19:08, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Huge article on it in German Wikipedia

Huge article about it in German wikipedia which, given the number of German speakers posting notes here, could be culled for material to translate and add. Doubt I did the link right, but you get the idea. Enjoy. Profhum (talk) 04:29, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

• I've read it and thought about translating it in the past, but I have higher-priority projects and couldn't get to it until next year. I agree, it has great material.--ColonelHenry (talk) 05:14, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Merge with Swabian Spätzle?

There is a separate article called Swabian Spätzle but as it isn't really a separate food, just a regional way of preparing it, I would suggest a merge --Mezaco (talk) 22:05, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Etymology

Nice one. Kind of cleaned up. Wrong, though.

Spaetzle was originally Spitzle, you still find Bubespitz in some regions. It's a slang word for penis, espc. a small boy's penis.

So your whole 'sparrow' spiel is very funny. And rather typical for the way current society deals with anything sexual.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.47.91 (talk • contribs)

You're right in principle but not in this case: Bubenspitzle.--TMCk (talk) 21:32, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Untitled

This should not be done as this recipe may have changed when it was brought to the New World. Also, Knoepfle or Spätzle soup is certainly very uncommon in Germany. Therefore, merging these articles would cause a loss of information — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sokafemi (talk • contribs) 00:27, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Merger proposal 29 April 2020

Is there a reason Knoephla should not be merged into Spätzle? --Melsj (talk) 19:33, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Equivalence isn't clear; is there a reference demonstrating equivalence? Oppose, if no such evidence. Klbrain (talk) 21:26, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

As they are different dumplings/preparations in Germans from Russia cookbooks, I am against any merging. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.66.179.205 (talk) 23:08, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Spatzle are a different dish; it's like bootleg pasta, whereas Knoephla is a type of dumpling and more soggy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.105.34.183 (talk) 22:11, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Closing; no merge. Klbrain (talk) 13:33, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

Pasta or noodle

@Quark1005: I'm ok with changing "pasta" to "noodle" but we would need a new source for the definition. GA-RT-22 (talk) 20:41, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Made the change with added citations. Thanks Quark1005 (talk) 21:40, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

That change has been wrong from my perspective. First of all: In Germany (especially Swabia), Spätzle are neither noodles nor pasta. The dough lacks the texture of a typical noodle dough and pasta is used only for the Italian type of noodles. Honestly, if I served a dish with Spätzle and you would ask for some more noodles, it would take me a second to realize what you mean.

The correct correct German general term is Teigwaren (which includes pasta, noodles and dumplings). Unfortunately, such a specific term is not existing in the English language. Teigwaren is typically translated to pasta, e. g. in the documents of the European Union (this document specifically refers to Spätzle):

• German: Klasse 2.7. Teigwaren
• English: Class 2.7. Pasta

The same terminology is used in other documents, e.g. [1] (1.4.5 in table) or [2] (Annex I).

Thus, the official English term in the EU to describe Spätzle is pasta and not noodles. And official use clearly beats entries in dictionaries. Any objections to change this back to pasta? JogyB (talk) 10:31, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Merge proposal - Spätzle and Swabian spaetzle

The article Swabian spaetzle should be merged into Spätzle, simply because it's exactly the same dish. The swabian is often used because Spätzle are one of the standard dishes in the Swabian cuisine and thus are associated with that region. This is comparable to Pasta being the same as Italian pasta - and thus Italian pasta is a redirect. -- JogyB (talk) 09:15, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Merge Obviously identical or closely related topics that should not be covered with overlapping and duplicative articles. Reywas92^Talk 13:42, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Merge I agree with the merge, but think that the older Spätzle page needs to be clearer that "noodle" for something that is not long and thin is an Americanism, and most English-speaking places would refer to it exclusively as a shape of pasta. Lewishhh (talk) 12:52, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

  Y Merger complete. Klbrain (talk) 10:41, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

"Knöpfle" not a synonym for "Spätzle"

As far as I know, Knöpfle are in a more round shape compared to the longer and thinner Spätzle. If this is true, then this information should be corrected both in this article and in the Käsespätzle article. Maxeto0910 (talk) 12:51, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

After reading the etymology section, I noticed this is already explained to some degree. The lead should probably also be changed accordingly to reflect the state of facts that Knöpfle is not always a synonym. Same for the Käsespätzle article. Maxeto0910 (talk) 12:55, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

I've changed the lede as part of the merge to better reflect this. Klbrain (talk) 10:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Resolved