Talk:Sokol movement

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Organization of this and related articles

This article is now mostly about the Czech sokol, and we also have Sokol in Poland about the Polish branch. I think this article should be a general overview of the movement and there should be an individual article for each country where it is or was important. Most of the details from this article should go into a new Sokol in Czech lands (or other appropriate title). I've already added red links for Slovenia and Croatia, and we may also need others. Zocky | picture popups 11:22, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

IMHO Sokol should be disambig as it means quite a many things, some more important than this single organisation. "Sokol in Czech lands" looks good to me. Pavel Vozenilek 14:36, 27 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think any other thing named Sokol is comparable in notability to the organization, especially its history in 19th and early 20th centuries, so IMO this should stay as the default article. Zocky | picture popups 16:57, 28 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Organization - disambiguation

Wikipedia already started a disambiguation page for Sokol before these posts of May 2006.

Should "Sokol the movement" be the default article? Yes, with worldwide "Sokol movement" membership larger than membership of any of the other disambiguated terms, Sokol the movement should be the default article.

But, doesn't "Sokol in Czech lands" need disambiguation also? Or at least, clarification. After all, Czech refers to the language and culture. Czechoslovakia became a nation after Sokol. Bohemia goes back to before the Austrian-Hungarian Empire, so what makes Czech lands and culture? With the spread of Czechs and Sokols through out the world, what lands are not the Czech lands, from Wisconsin to Australia?SalineBrain (talk) 13:48, 13 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bohemia kingdom did exist during Austria-Hungary. It cease to exist when Czechoslovakia was established. "Czeach lands" (or Bohemian lands) used to be shortening of "Lands of the (Czech) Bohemian Crown". JanaKometaDušková (talk) 15:34, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Organization - stubs for Sokols abroad

There are strong Sokol movements abroad, outside the commonly-accepted "Czech lands" of Europe, that need description and documentation, as well as appreciation of their history. Why not stub out Sokols in the Americas, Australia, and Western Europe?SalineBrain (talk) 13:48, 13 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

They are mostly places where people from Czech origins liked to meet. Not exclusively of course but mostly. If you read French, you can see the part of the French article that deals with it. For that reason, I think it is best to deal with that aspect here and not in a specific article. --Bombastus (talk) 17:39, 13 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Václav Kukari edit

160.39.236.236 added the first content for this article in November 2005. Now under "1900–1914: Competitors and neo-Slavism", a sentence reads: "Václav Kukari developed the policy of "cleansing" (očistění) and sought to limit membership to those who he believed demonstrated commitment to purely Czech causes"

On 31 July 2007, Bombastus subsequently deleted the name "Václav Kukari", in a dirty edit, and left cryptic notes saying "He looks totally unknown, better be careful and put it as a comment only" and "this is not Czech name, I cound not find anyone resembling to fix it". An internet search revealed the following Czech document: http://www.archives.cz/zao/prerov/home/publikace/assets/Sborni%CC%81k%202006.pdf which discusses the names "Kokory" and "Kulkové" in year 1900 in a discussion of the Social Democrats, on page 43. I cannot translate it completely, but given the similarity in names, dates, and subject matter, imho Bobmbastus has no grounds for deletion of this passage. He probably decided against deletion of this passage halfway thru the edit, but failed to execute it properly. Since Bombastus looks to have as much command of English as I have of Czech, will someone else please read, translate, and edit this passage back to understanding? And, where is 160.39.236.236, and where did he get this material? SalineBrain (talk) 18:07, 13 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think you might be confusing for part of the edits you attribute to me. The reference remains extremely weak indeed and you will find much more trustworthy details in Nolte's book if you want to develop that specific point. It is also developped in the French FA I mentionned if you can read French.--Bombastus (talk) 19:33, 13 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the whole passage about antisemitism seems pretty odd to me, and it looks as if someone took that from an unreliable source and decided it's trustworthy because it mentions Czech National Socialist party. Hey, those sound like nazis, right? Well, Czech National Socialist Party was actually fairly liberal party of petty burgeoisie. I'll put there ^{[citation needed]} until further notice, and then delete it.