Talk:Shenzhen/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

¥200 or HK$200?

The article says "Shenzhen airport is conveniently connected by coach directly to Hong Kong airport for a fee of ¥200 or HK$200 " [my emphasis]. HK$200 as of December 2007 is $25.63 USD while ¥200 is $1.76 USD. Thus, is this statement correct? 208.2.17.2 (talk) 16:45, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

To answer your question:

HK dollar and RMB (china yuan) has been at the exchange rate @ 1 (HKD):1.06 (RMB) or 1:1 (due to deflation in recent years) during the last 8 years. The statement is correct in the origional article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.11.71.70 (talk) 23:42, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Demographics

"About six million of these people are migrant workers who return home on the weekends " - Of course most of the migrant workers do not return home on the weekends as they live very far away from their hometwon, are not rich and even have to work on the weekends — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.204.137.134 (talk) 11:36, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

"However, many people think there are far more residents, mostly because they are commuters from Dongguan."... "most 'old' Shenzhen locals felt that the practice of opening the city to inland residents is making it less competitive with other Chinese cities."

This is rather not convincing with the use of words like "many people", "most 'old' Shenzhen", adding up to the emphasis on "Dongguan". Yes, citation please. Otherwise this is not appearing to be objective. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.49.124.107 (talk) 13:37, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Economy

Is this right? "The city has more than four hundred of the world's five hundred biggest companies." http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/global500/2006/cities/ lists the city with the most global 500 companies as Tokyo, with 52. Is Fortune going by how many companies have their head office, and this is perhaps going by how many offices at all? Darinteb Well so does San Jose, California, an office doesn't mean anything. Tokyo is the most headquartered.

Population

Latest figures put population above 10 million, with only about 2 million posessing a LEGAL hukou. cf: http://www.china.org.cn/english/government/130137.htm

Regarding population guesses disguised as fact, they always seem to double every few years for places believed to grow fast. I know 17 million is a very dubious figure for Shenzhen, whether entire 2050 km or inner districts. News reports are full of errors, only people who specialize in counting people really know, like me.

Inner Shanghai official Census 2000 of China only had about 8 million people, meaning the inner qu (市中心 and 浦东新区) comprising 1,364 square km, add it up yourself on the Shanghai page! Contrary to popular belief, Chinese authority DO count non-legal residents, but they separate the statistics, which would be self-evident if you can read Chinese. Most of the rest of Shanghai is very low density similar to US suburbs, or atleast was during that Census. The extent of any major city can be verified with Google Earth as low density looks obviously different. 8 million is a ton of people, it shouldn't be taken lightly, it took New York 200 years to get there. But yes, its easily to inflate that number to 12 or 17 million by the stroke of a pen.

根据深圳市统计局网站公布的资料，2005年末，全市常住人口827.75万人，其中户籍人口181.93万人，暂住人口645.82万人。 This says in 2005 year end, Shenzhen Municipality had 8,277,500 residents, of which 1,819,300 were legal.

Accordung to Shenzhen Daily article published on 4th Dec 2007:

Registered temporary residents who have stayed in Shenzhen for more than six months will in the future be treated the same as hukou holders in terms of education, medicare and housing. The figure for these two types of population are quoted as 8.46 million at the end of 2006. However, this excludes the temporary population who stay less than six months and those who do not bother to register.

Up until now there has been no incentive to register for the non-hukou population, unless the employer insists. Therefore, most of the workers in the small retail trade, restaurant trade, transport consultants, etc, do not bother. In studying the transport needs for Shenzhen we find that the demand for public transport is more consistent with a figure of about 12 million than anything less than 10 million. Who knows?

Mikecc46 (talk) 10:23, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Massage

Um, not to put too fine a point on it, but when the article mentions "massage", does it mean massage, or prostitution?

Second question, where does that image come from? It's clearly not a photograph (or if it is, it's been heavily Photoshopped).

Finally, from what I recall of my brief visit to Shenzhen, the air was very heavily polluted. Is this typical, or did I just go on a really bad day...--Robert Merkel 00:13, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

In aswer to your question, Mr. Merkel, it does indeed mean prostitution. I lived in southern China for five years and I can tell you firsthand that it is simply a codeword for the world's oldest profession. You know this very well when hotel employees say the word and make rude gestures at the same time. You know it even better when the "masseuse" comes to your door offering her services!

Therefore, I have clarified the point in the article (ATTN: ADMINISTRATORS! You may want to zap that line altogether) by putting, perhaps as you say, too fine a point on it. It now says "prostitution", rather than "massage", complete with a link to that article, if indeed there is one (I haven't checked).

These are two distinct activities in Shenzhen, although the latter frequently advertises itself as the former. Both Luohu and Futian have a very large number of genuine massage parlours interspersed with the restaurants and shops of all classes. The various types of back and foot massage are conducted in public rooms or glass-fronted cubicles at about 10-20% of the cost in Hong Kong, and are thus a major attraction for Hong Kong visitors as well as local people. Since the redevelopment of the part of Luohu adjacent to the Hong Kong border, the prostitution trade has been largely limited to two red-light areas, one a little to the north-east of that and the other close to the Huanggang border crossing. In addition, as in most other cities in the World, prostitutes can be called to the rooms in many, but by no means all, hotels.

The only images I can see are the buildings reflected in the lake and the Luohu Metro station construction. Why do you think that they are not normal photos? I live next to that park, and the metro area looked just like that, with the rail station to the left and the Shangrila Hotel in center. Mikecc46 (talk) 10:35, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Port

The page says:

The rapid growth of Shenzhen port, its lower labour costs and its proximity to factories in Guangdong province has put pressure on Hong Kong's terminals. Shenzhen's total sea container throughput caught up with Hong Kong's Kwai Chung port in August 2003, when each handled 1.06 million twenty-foot-equivalent units (TEUs) of goods.

Shenzhen has moved more goods than maninland China's busiest port of Shanghai for the second month in September 2003.

According to statistics from The American Association of Port Authorities, in 2002, Shenzhen moved 7.6 million TEUs and Hong Kong moved 19.4 million. It is very difficult to believe that both Shenzhen and Hong Kong's traffic decreated to 1.06 million TEUs by August 2003, and I am more inclined to believe the AAPA on this than the unnamed source of the Wikipedia article. -- Dominus 14:54, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Request to merge with economy of Shenzhen section. Philpm930 (talk) 20:48, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

pollution

In answer to your other question, the air in that part of China is often foul. Some days, though, it is worse than others. The current photo was taken on a bad day, good days tending to be the windier ones when most of the smog is blown away.

The photo now with the article seems to have been uploaded after you posted your message.

-- it is unfair to add a single section of pollution for shenzhen especially the section . although the air condition in shenzhen may not be as good as some places in the world, it is not as bad as needing a special section. http://pdf.sznews.com/tqb/pdf/200612/1221/TA05c21C(ps).pdf "Shenzhen's severe pollution problems also make it representative of the new Chinese economy." - untrue, in fact, shenzhen is not a city depending on polluting industry. "In 2004, 21 days in October were smoggy and, in April 2006, two companies in Bao'an District were fined for dumping chemical wastes directly into the Shanghenglang River. " --- if you are accusing shenzhen being severely polluted, these examples are not convicing. 21 days of smoggy was subject to weather condition. "Shenzhen's pollution concerns are likely far worse than public statistics reveal." -- this is so subjective and i find a little bit amusing, a better place for it should be sb's blog. Chenyun 02:06, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Chenyun, I've been there. Maybe I'm just a naive Westerner, and it may have been a bad day, and I'm told that there's plenty of places in China with worse air pollution, but the air was absolutely filthy on the day I visited. Maybe not warranting a paragraph on its own, but certainly worth a mention--Robert Merkel 03:14, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Setting up of the SEZ

"The one-time fishing village of Shenzhen, singled out by late Chinese paramount leader Deng Xiaoping (鄧小平), is one of the so-called Special Economic Zones (SEZ) of China originally established in 1978 in competition with Hong Kong, then a British colony."

Was it set up to compete with Hong Kong, or to make use of the advantage of its proximity? -- 20:16, January 26, 2005, UTC

most certainly the latter. much harder to take a mere village than an already bustling city and transform it to a competitor of HK. ---HXL 何献龙 23:03, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

BTW, why was my line about the expansion of the SEZ In June zapped? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.165.213.18 (talk) 11:49, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Yantian

Do ships going to Yantian have to pass through the waters of Hong Kong's territory? Or do they go detour round Tung Ping Chau? -- 20:36, January 26, 2005, UTC

Why Yale and Jyutping but not IPA?

IPA is the preferred system of marking pronuncations on Wikipedia. -- 20:47, January 26, 2005, UTC

User:Ran changed the text by removing IPA.

BEFORE

Shenzhen (深圳; Sham Chun [Shamchun] in old or Hong Kong documents; pinyin: Shēnzhèn, Cantonese IPA: sɐm1dzɐn3, Yale: sām jan; Jyutping: sam1 zan3; lit. deep drains) is a sub-provincial city of Guangdong province in southern Mainland China, located at the border with Hong Kong.

AFTER

Shenzhen (深圳; Sham Chun [Shamchun] in old or Hong Kong documents; pinyin: Shēnzhèn, Cantonese Jyutping: sam1 zan3, Yale: sām jan; lit. deep drains) is a sub-provincial city of Guangdong province in southern Mainland China, located at the border with Hong Kong.

Comparison

Well, because:

1. IPA is causing us lots of dispute. I'm not just talking about /b d g/ and the tone numbers; theoretically we can go into arguments about how to transcribe every single vowel.
2. It is not needed when we already have Jyutping and Yale.

Why do you think the Mandarin pronunciation is given in Pinyin, not IPA? Because there's no need for IPA if we already have Pinyin. -- ran (talk) 20:56, Jan 26, 2005 (UTC)

Neither Jyutping nor Yale to Cantonese is comparable to Pinyin to Mandarin. -- 20:58, January 26, 2005, UTC

Okay, do you want to continue the conversation at Talk:Political divisions of China, for the next week or two?

This is a waste of your time, and a waste of mine. If we decide to use IPA, what next? We're going to spend a week arguing over whether to use /b d g/. Then another week over whether to use tone numbers or tone contours. Then what? If we use tone numbers, should we have separate /7 8 9/ tones or should we merge those into /1 3 6/? If we use tone contours, what's the 4th tone? /11/ or /21/? What's the 5th tone, /23/ or /13/ or /12/ or /24/?

And that's not all. How are we going to do the long /a/ and short /a/? Are we going to use the /a/ and flipped /a/? or are we going to use /a:/ and /a/? Or perhaps /a:/ and flipped /a/? What about short /i/? Are we going to use the IPA lax /i/? Are we going to mark all the long vowels? What about the vowel of seoi "water". How do we write it? Is the first half /œ/, or maybe /ø/? And the second part? /y/? or /i/?

If you want to spend six months over this thing, please find someone else to discuss it with, I'm tired of this game. Insert all the IPA you want. Insert IPA that's clearly different from what's described on Standard Cantonese. I guarantee you that over the next six months many people will come and argue with you and change the IPA or remove it. But if I were you, I'd be using the IPA as described in Standard Cantonese; or I'd use Jyutping and Yale. (And for that matter, if you're so sure about this /b d g/ thing, why don't you change the article Standard Cantonese too, to show what the phonology of Cantonese is really like?)

Once upon a time, I was arguing with User:Shorne over the history of the People's Republic of China. We argued for a very long time. Then I wrote a version that incorporated both his views and my views, and the argument was over. The way of least dispute is the easiest and fairest way on Wikipedia. I think you should learn that too, in the same way I did. -- ran (talk) 21:05, Jan 26, 2005 (UTC)

The GDP per capita

The page says:

In 2001, the working population reached 3.3 million. Though the secondary sector of industry had the largest share (1.85 million in 2001, increased by 5.5%), the tertiary sector of industry is growing fast (1.44 million in 2001, increased by 11.6%). The GDP per capita was ¥136071 (US$16,430) in 2001, ranked no. 1 among 659 Chinese cities, per the Guangdong Provincial Statistical Bureau (the city itself quoted a much cheaper number equivalent to US$5,605).[1][2]

I live in Shenzhen ,and I think the "The GDP per capita was ¥136071 (US$16,430) in 2001" is wrong number. the true number is about $5000, and in the 2004,The GDP per capita was about 7000, and was 7300 in 2005.

The problem with Shenzhen's per capita figures is always about the population: does it exclude temporary (migrant) workers, or not? DOR (HK) (talk) 00:27, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Map

Is it possible to change the map in the info box to one which shows where Shenzhen is in China? At the moment it is impossible to tell exactly where the city is, only after reading a bit can you gather that it is near Hong Kong.Suicup 07:10, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Seconded. Frankly, this is the most useless map I have ever seen in my life.

The city is located just north of HK geographically. Do u need a whole map to display where it is in china. There is a map that in the zh.wikipedia.org that shows where it is situated in relation to guangdong province.

Hong Kong on map

While reading this interesting article I referred to maps a few times to try to find Hong Kong in relation to Shenzhen. Hong Kong outline has been obliterated from the map. I discovered this by simultaneously opening the Hong Kong page. It would be very helpful for Australians like me, and others, if HK was indicated on map. HK is after all very intertwined with your story of Shenzhen. Thanks for article. Tiddy (talk) 03:43, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Tourist Attractions Section

I can't help but notice that the section on Tourist Attractions seems to have been written by the Shenzhen Tourist Bureau. I am going to remove the advertising blurbs. If anyone believes each "attraction" is worthy of more than a passing mention, could they please edit it so it is more NPOV. --Roisterer 16:20, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

The sad point is that there's really not that much of interest to the tourist in Shenzhen, apart from a few nice parks, and the gallery I mentioned on the Wiki Travel page (depends on taste, I suppose). Most of the 'attractions' are just money-making theme parks, shopping centres, and the like. Still, detailed tourism information really belongs on the Wiki Travel site. I previously included the link to the site in the article. As can be seen from the article's current content, there really isn't much to do! Actually, "China-Hong Kong St" is probably worth a visit, although I haven't actually been there. According to a policeman we encountered near the site, it takes ~30min for a Chinese (China/HK/Macau) citizen to get a permit to enter, and at least a day for a non-Chinese. Probably worth investigating and including. --СђrΐsτσρhΞr ScЋδlτξη 18:42, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Shenzhen is basically a miracle city established over night as a window to the world. It has never been famous at its natural beauty. Other than a couple of beach resorts, including da/xiao mei sha, da peng, xi qong, some nice parks and gallery (as mentioned above), yinyu and wutong mountain, shenzhen's tourist attraction is more about the exciting night life, fashion & electronic product shopping, and city lifesyle.

With the China-HK st, it is famous as it used to be the place to witness HK police officer on one border while the Chinese solider on the other side of the street. In the old days it is somewhere to do a lot of shopping as some of the products sold there were not available in SZ. However having a more open market in mainland China these days, China-HK st probably is still in the tourist map due to the histrical reasons and lost its charm in the old days. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.11.71.70 (talk) 00:03, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Integration with hong kong.

Seems to just contain information on shopping centres. Zazaban 04:27, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

There should be info somewhere about how shenzhen is economically important to HK and vice versa.

The Integration section should start with the Basic Law, which says HK does not have the option of changing before 2047, and real integration (as opposed to mere facilitation) would therefore require Shenzhen to change its laws, currency or whatever. What the Chief Executive dreams about is not nearly as important as what the Basic Law says.DOR (HK) (talk) 00:29, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

What the Paramount Leader dreams about is not nearly as important as what the Treaty of Nanjing says. We have to review the Treaty of Nanjing, which says HK does not have the option of reunifying with China ever, and real integration (as opposed to One country, two systems) would therefore require China to adopt economic reforms and liberalize it's economy to equal or surpass HK level of development. Using your logic, HK will still be in Britain's control, because it doesn't matter what Deng dreams, only the Treaty of Nanjing matters.72.81.233.159 (talk) 18:40, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

-> Debatable about how much the British or anyone could really do if they did change things. Particularly if it could be argued it was in HK's interest.

The last paragraph is a little out of date. Many of the glitzy malls in Shenzhen sell identical products at *much higher* prices then in HK. This is in part because the value of the HK$ vs RMB has collapsed in recent months, but mostly because of inflation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.101.129.56 (talk) 09:51, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Should this topic be changed to "Close Tie with Hong Kong" instead? The word integration seems to give an impression that the two cities are merging into one. I know there are speculation about this, the two governments have no firm plan or time table for the integration. So despite social and economic ties, the two cities will continue being administrated by different regimes and it is likely to stay this way. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wingthesnowman (talk • contribs) 16:51, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

I am also concerned that the title is misleading. That's why I have changed it to "Economic Cooperation with Hong Kong." The cornerstone of Shenzhen and Hong Kong's cooperation is based in business, so I think the new topic makes more sense.(Anna Huang 60 (talk) 01:18, 6 June 2017 (UTC))

External links

Are there too many external links in this article? According to WP:EL, they should be kept to a minimum if possible. Insanephantom 06:56, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Please keep the link to ShenzhenParty.com on the external links section it is the most well known web site to foreigners living in Shenzhen 210.17.235.228 11:51, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Clarity in history paragraph

Shenzen was not established in 1979, but the SEZ status of Shenzen originates from the 1979-1980 reform and opening period. Peter Hessler's oracle bones states the year as 1980 on page 83, but that book, though excellent, is not authoritative on Shenzen history. I suggest some edits in the history paragraph.

"Densely populated intellectuals"

What does "densely populated intellectuals" mean? It is in the source, but I don't understand it. --84.20.17.84 11:27, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I think it means the educated middle class who live in urban areas. The Chinese use "intellectual" to mean anyone who's been to university. LDHan 16:31, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Shenzhen Stock Exchange section not NPOV

The sentence " Here buying and selling orders are matched in a fair, open and orderly market, through an automated system to create the best possible prices based on price-time priority." specifically reads like a major massaged line. It would be better to refer to the market in technical terms rather than propaganda terms such as "orderly" and "fair" etc. Presumably this sentence is suggesting that the SSE is a Electronic Communications Network where no human market maker is used to facilitate trades. If the SSE is truely a ECN-only market and doesn't use market makers.

The rest of the section has tons of NPOV problems, filled with subjective and opinions. Does anyone know the real capitalization, impact and methods that the SSE uses?

Kunming is not a sub-provincial cities but Harbin is!

The table at the bottom of Shenzhen page is incorrect:

People's Republic of China

• Direct-controlled municipalities
  • Beijing · Chongqing · Shanghai · Tianjin

Sub-provincial cities

• Changchun · Chengdu · Dalian · Guangzhou · Hangzhou · Jinan · Kunming · Nanjing · Ningbo · Qingdao · Shenyang · Shenzhen · Wuhan · Xi'an · Xiamen

Provincial capitals (not included above)

• Changsha · Fuzhou · Guiyang · Haikou · Hefei · Hohhot · Lanzhou · Lhasa · Nanchang · Nanning · Shijiazhuang · Taiyuan · Ürümqi · Xining · Yinchuan · Zhengzhou · Harbin

Special administrative regions

• Hong Kong · Macau

Pictures

Could we get some pictures of Shenzhen before the SEZ was established for comparison? Brutannica (talk) 18:30, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Don't know if there are any good pictures on the web about this. However there is an exhibition in one of Shenzhen's public parks which show exactly what you want, i.e. pictures of Shenzhen before, during and after development of the city in the last 20 years. HamTin (talk) 12:41, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Lead section - investment claims

I have found a source confirming the $30 billion investment in Shenzhen over the past two decades: http://www.businessworld.in/content/view/962/1017/ however the lead section also seems to attribute all this investment to outsiders. Is this correct? Are there any more sources to confirm the accuracy of that last sentence in the opening paragraph? HamTin (talk) 12:46, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Sea

The second best beach in China comment is really subjective and should be scrapped. Just say a "particularly nice beach, Xichong." Furthermore, 1 hour from downtown is just false, unless you are travelling by helicopter. 2 hours would be more accurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.17.223.57 (talk) 01:45, 14 April 2008 (UTC) --218.17.223.57 (talk) 01:49, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

"Tourist attractions"

"Although Shenzhen enjoys a good reputation for shopping and travel, some Hong Kong citizens are concerned about the relatively high crime rate in Shenzhen[citation needed]. Reports of businessmen and tourists being robbed and kidnapped in Shenzhen are not uncommon in Hong Kong newspapers.[citation needed]"

If these things are common, then they should be properly cited. Otherwise please delete!--218.17.223.57 (talk) 01:50, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, please delete. This is NOT a common occurrence. I have lived in Shenzhen for four years and never heard of such a thing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.20.195.172 (talk) 07:33, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I am not so sure it should be deleted as I think the original author is trying to show Hong Kong citizens' impression of Shenzhen and China and not the crime rate of Shenzhen itself, which is in line with my own experience in this matter. I have been trying to find a link but the only one I can find is from a source that is on the [spam blacklist]. Chineserose (talk) 09:35, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

GDP per capita.

I would like to request the source of "ranked seventh" out of all the cities.

Thank you.

~~Uli3819~~

-- i apologize for my signature, havent edited anything for too long, completely forgot how to write anything at all, Administrator: please feel free to disclose any information by convention.

Significance of the 2008 Fire?

I don't see how "A blaze, apparently ignited by fireworks, killed at least 43 people and injured 88 others at the "Kind of the Dancers" club September 20, 2008." is significant enough to be placed in an encyclopedic article about the province as a whole. I think it would be a difficult argument to even put such a story on the page of the city it occurred in. FantajiFan (talk) 14:02, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

yeah, that seemed extraneous to me, as well. Nateji77 (talk) 09:38, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

link issues

in the table of chinese and pinyin names in the "Administrative divisions" section, you can't click the links... i don't know why but maybe someone else does :) Jessi1989 (talk) 14:50, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Cityscape?

"Possibly one of Shenzhen's main attraction is its abundance of 24 year old, single, recently graduated, nice, beautiful Chinese women."

Uhm, right... not even sure where to begin, perhaps at least with a reference and the removal of the 'Possibly', or maybe the list of superlative descriptions, or maybe the not quite NPOV stance...

anyways 118.208.252.216 (talk) 07:40, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

if it's POV and not sourced, just delete it. Almost no one living in Shenzhen today is a native of the place, and Cantonese women are not pretty, but cute, anyways. --HXL 何献龙 23:01, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Addition of sister cities, among others

Since B694kp8d is rather mute and will not respond on his talk page, I will bring these issues up here:

1. He insists on inserting Matsuyama (Japan), Osaka, Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh City, Fuzhou, Shanghai, Guangzhou, and Seoul as sister cities of Shenzhen. First off, listing those three domestic cities alongside foreign cities is not a good idea. Articles on cities in mainland China that do have partnerships with other cities domestically do separate domestic from international cities. Secondly, none of those articles list Shenzhen as a sister city and those are un-sourced and un-dated additions; the rest of the list is dated.
2. So int'l flights from Shenzhen are cheaper than those from HKIA? This is not as well-established as the fact that flights to mainland China destinations are cheaper from Shenzhen than from HKIA. --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 22:56, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Also, B694kp8d continues to remove the "See Also" section without rationale. I don't see any reason not to include it, as those links are certainly relevant to the city --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 22:31, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Deng and SEZs

6k7de3x4v continues to remove any mentions of Deng from the article, with the only reason given "don't mention Deng" or some reason. And like B694kp8d, he, perhaps a successor user, continues to remove the "See Also" section. This time, there has been a reason provided: he opposes mentioning other SEZs. That is not a reason to remove the entire section. If you wish to remove mention of other SEZs, remove only that link. And I see no problem with including links such as "Economy of the People's Republic of China" and "Sham Chun River"; they are relevant to the city. --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 23:55, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

I have warned 6k7de3x4v on xyr talk page for edit warring, and explained the purpose of See Also sections. This is not really a negotiable issue, as they are key part of Wikipedia's organization system. Qwyrxian (talk) 01:40, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

==See Also= section is not to be added to Shenzhen. This is like plagarism and taking away the prosperity of Shenzhen and shifting to other parts of China and the world. And particularly Hong Kong. Any reasonable person should know by now that HXL49 is actually from Hong Kong.

One editor cannot decide what belongs in an article and what does not. The "See also" section serves a purpose to guide readers to related subjects. Related...not superior. User:HXL49's origin is irrelevant to this discussion. Tiderolls 02:46, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

I understand that you want to provide a "See Also" section as a related subject. But this is not a related subject. The section directs Shenzhen's prosperity to others as a form of advertisement. HXL49 is someone who is trying to reduce Shenzhen to rubbles. The HXL49 does not want to see Shenzhen prosperous and is not allowed on Shenzhen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 6k7de3x4v (talk • contribs) 02:58, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Your assessment of the "see also's" result is incorrect. Continuing to speculate on the motives of other editors instead of offering cogent arguments will not serve you well. Tiderolls 03:06, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

My assessment of NOT including "See Also" is accurate and should NOT be included. I have already offered my reasons for why "See Also" is not to be included. (6k7de3x4v (talk) 03:27, 18 January 2011 (UTC))

The other SEZ of China, Shantou, Xiamen and Zhuhai make absolutely NO mention of =See Also=. Why should Shenzhen add the =See Also=? Perhaps the =See Also= should be added to those cities to see what kind of reaction is received. (6k7de3x4v (talk) 03:52, 18 January 2011 (UTC))

because "See Also" serves as an aid and is not necessarily required, but once it is added, it should not be removed. And you're wrong, only Xiamen doesn't have one. And yes, I'm going to go ahead and troll the hell out of you by adding a See Also to Xiamen soon. --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 03:55, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

=See Also= is not an aid. Even you mentioned that it is not required. So, please remove it. I have offered very concrete proof that the other SEZ that is Shantou, Xiamen and Zhuhai previously did NOT have a =See Also=. HXL49 just recently added the =See Also= only after the points were mentioned. Very high proof that the =See Also= should not be added to Shenzhen or the other SEZ for that matter. HXL49, you are now causing a real personal attack for no reason. (6k7de3x4v (talk) 04:08, 18 January 2011 (UTC))

I haven't added anything. Feel free to look at my contributions. I haven't touched either Xiamen, Shantou, or Zhuhai for many months, much less recently. And, no, you don't have a clear concept of what a personal attack is. --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 04:37, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Here is a version of the article from November of 2009 displaying the "See also" section. Seriously, 6k7de3x4v, you continue to harp on points that multiple editors have explained lack merit. Perhaps the articles you mention need "See also" sections. Bring your concerns to those talk pages. Tiderolls 04:59, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

As an outside observer, from reading the discussion, seems like 6k7de3x4v does not understand the WP:MOS and especially Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(disambiguation)#.22See_also.22_section.

Maintaining a partisan POV without any hard references and on top of that deleting already established text from the article is a big No No. 6k7de3x4v should read some basic policies and guides to ensure he is not misrepresenting the article's WP:NPOV for his own take of Deng. --Visik (talk) 05:30, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Tide rolls hits upon a point I had meant to bring up earlier--if the other articles lack See Also, that's more likely a problem on those articles not this one. Now, I do agree with the general sentiment of keeping See Also sections relatively short; for example, I just removed the linked to the SEC of China article, because that article is already linked in the lead, and we're not supposed to double link. And checking more carefully, the Sham Chun River is also wikilinked, in the Geography section, so that one's out. The rest make sense to me. I think it would be better if the football club were somehow incorporated into the article as well, but, until it is, it should stay there. The rest help the reader get to different, related topics, so they serve an important purpose in the article. Qwyrxian (talk) 08:46, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

The Checkpoints

Strange to read an article on Shenzhen which does not mention one of the most important things about the city - the system of checkpoints surrounding the city centre. However, the last time I was there was in '09 so perhaps they've been removed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.9.178.224 (talk) 08:35, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Culture

The culture section should be deleted, and the Media subsection integrated into other parts of the article. Shenzhen isn't exactly known for being a tourist attraction, no temples, doesn't have famous shopping districts, and doesn't have any annual festivals/special events. If anything, what Shenzhen is known is for its multitude of pirated/stolen tech goods on sale. Cooldra01 (talk) 13:18, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Shenzhen American International School

Should Shenzhen American International School, a satellite school of Lee Academy, Lee, Maine, be in the template above it, or not? I think not, as it is hardly "ordinary" by Chinese standards, but I welcome other opinions.--DThomsen8 (talk) 15:12, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

You might want to drop the word "ordinary" from the template and make a extra category with it for international schools. There is probably more than one. I think it gives undue weight to Shenzhen American International School to place it outside the template. Rincewind42 (talk) 01:32, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Propaganda?

The article reads like it was written by someone in China's PR Ministry. After reading the article, one would believe that Shenzhen is second only to Eden in terms of heavenliness. --173.66.74.186 (talk) 02:50, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Doubt it. As of right now the reading sounds more or less like Chicago and Paris. Augend (drop a line) 00:31, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

@Augend: That comment was from five years ago. The article right now is different than the article at the time that comment was written. - 祝好，Josephua^(聊天) 00:36, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Too much photos for a C-Class article

There are almost 40 of them. But the thing is,some of them aren't meaningful to the article at all!

The following are some photos I suggest to remove:

• 
  East Pacific Center Towers (1)
• 
  East Pacific Center Towers (2), second building from the right being the headquarters of China Merchants Bank
• 
  View of Shun Hing Square at night
• 
  Shen Nan Rd. E West Night View
• 
  Shenzhen at night
• 
  Shenzhen Day and Night
• 
  Nanshan District
• 
  Nanshan District
• 
  Nanshan District
• 
  Nanshan District
• 
  An anchor outside the main entrance to the Minsk World theme park in Shenzhen
• 
  Bus Service to Shenzhen from Hong Kong

Photos 1 and 2 Both are of the same buildings,just in a different angle.Keep one or another,not both.

3,4 and 5 The second,third and fourth photos under the heading "Gallery" is just some night views from a same place on Shennan Road in Luohu,one would be sufficient.

6. This one really made me speechless...I don't think this is the perfect place to show off one's Photoshop skills.

7,8,9 and 10 There are four different photos of a same place-Coastal City

11. This one is under the section"Transport".But the fact is,Minsk World is a theme park not a means of transport,and an anchor isn't unique to Shenzhen so it again doesn't mean much.

12. There are a two things I have to say: 1)This photo is taken at Portland Street,Mong Kok,Kowloon,Hong Kong. 2)If you know Chinese and pay a closer look the sign on the corner of the window it clearly says its heading to Foshan,the other bus to Changping.They are two other Chinese cities,not part of Shenzhen by any means.

Agreed? Wishds (talk) 16:29, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

High Schools

I checked the Wikipedia entries of other big cities such as Los Angeles, New York, London, Paris. None of them have a list of high schools. The Los Angeles article does link to a separate Wikipedia entry entitled "List of high schools in Los Angeles County, California". I think that is fair, but to include a list of high schools in this Wikipedia article seems totally unnecessary. DevRockinAZ (talk) 07:35, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

@DevRockinAZ: I've since made a separate Education in Shenzhen article, and lists of secondary schools can go/be linked to from there. I'm guessing it has to do with the following:

• In the U.S. schools are managed by local school districts (in many states they are separate from other local government), so a list of school districts (for public) and private schools can be linked like that, but in China the provinces, prefectural cities, and/or urban districts/counties/county-level cities manage them. The U.S. school district has no equivlent here
• There are relatively fewer schools as not every resident has the right to go to high school in Shenzhen. A person needs a hukou of that city to go to school there, though rules may be relaxing? (Hong Kong/Macau permanent residents living in Shenzhen can't go to public school there)

WhisperToMe (talk) 00:35, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Shenzhen/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: CycloneIsaac (talk · contribs) 00:30, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

I'll get on it soon.—CycloneIsaac (Talk) 00:30, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Comments

Referencing:

• There are many sections are are uncited (1980 onwards as an SEZ, Geography, Administrative divisions, Demographics, Environment, Economy, Integration with Hong Kong, Road, Port, Air, Railway, etc).
• The formatting of the references is inconsistent.
  • Reference 27 would fit better as a quote inside a citation template.
  • Reference 28 needs a date
  • Reference 32 is suppose to be part of a url, I assume.
  • Reference 34 needs a citation template so an archive date could be added.
  • Reference 52 is dead.
  • Reference 54 is dead.
  • References 68-72 are not in any citation format.
  • Reference 87 is dead.
  • I could go on...

Original research:

• "Generally speaking, in most circumstances, people who are monolingual in Cantonese, Hakka, or Teochew are senior citizens of local ancestry; people who are bilingual in both Cantonese and Mandarin are the middle-aged and youth of Cantonese ancestry; people who are trilingual in Cantonese, Mandarin, and either Hakka or Teochew are of either Hakka ancestry or Teochew ancestry; and people who are monolingual only in Mandarin are those of out-of-province ancestry."
• "Although the Shenzhen Special Economic Zone have been extended to cover the whole of Shenzhen, colloquially Shenzhen is still said to be separated into two areas, with the original four districts comprising the SEZ before 2010 as 关内 (pinyin: guān nèi; literally: "within the border") and the rest known as 关外 (pinyin: guān wài; literally: "outside of the border")."
• "Dameisha and Xiaomeisha, two of the city's largest beaches, both located in Yantian District, are often crowded."
• "located in the popular electronics district of Huaqiangbei."
• "Connection to West Kowloon Railway Station in Hong Kong is scheduled to be completed in late 2018, allowing for 15 minute cross-border train journeys."
• "Conversely, the less-common yellow taxis charging the same as red ones, runs only within the original Shenzhen SEZ."

Prose:

• What happened between 1521 and 1979?
• "It was promoted to a Sub-provincial City in March 1983 was given the right of provincial-level economic administration in November 1988." Run-on sentence.
• "It makes part of Pearl Delta River Mega City built-up area with 44,738,513 inhabitants spread on 9 municipalities (including Macao) and 17,573 km2." A comma would be nice.
• Any information for ethnicity?
• Expansion on the religion section is needed. It could still use some information on notable religious monuments in the city, etc.
• "Its import and export volumes have been first for the last nine consecutive years. It is the second in terms of industrial output. For five consecutive years, its internal revenue within local budget ranks third. It also ranks third in the use of foreign capital." Combine these to two sentences or so.
• "Hong Kong and Shenzhen have very close business, trade and social links as demonstrated by the statistics presented below. Except where noted the statistics are taken from sections of the Hong Kong Government (HKG) website." Probably best not to mention this.
• "Hong Kong conducts regular surveys of cross-boundary passenger movements, with the most recent being in 2003, although the 2007 survey will be reported on soon." How long is "soon"?
• "A prominent Chinese and English language newspaper is the Shenzhen Daily." Are you sure that is the only one?
• I do not think a whole section of integration with Hong Kong is necessary.

There are so many areas to fix, I don't think it could be fixed within a week. Wishva, I'm sure you can add much more to this, considering you live inside the city. I will fail the article for now, and I hope you can renominate it in a much better status than this.—CycloneIsaac (Talk) 01:35, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

SHENZHEN POEMS

SHENZHEN POEMS SHENZHEN POEMS BEST POET NOT DUPU BUT HIM NOT WALTER WANG IN SHENZHEN ​​​​

《有风有舞之彭德怀》《有风有舞之川军抗》《有风有舞之西安事变》《有风有舞之长沙抗战将士》《有风有舞之九一八》《有风有舞之母亲一三年》《有风有舞之一六年》《有风有舞之父母一七年》《有风有舞之父母二笑一七年》 ​​​​

PENGDEHUAI, A GENERAL FROM CHINA, AND HE IS ONE OF THE MOST OUTSTANDING GENERALS IN THE HISTORY. EMPERAL LISHIMIN IS ONE OF MOST SUCCESSFUL LEADERS IN THE WORLD, OUTSTANDING , AND HE IS ONE OF THE BEST BOLES IN THE WORLD. QNGSHUBAO, CHENGYAOJIN, WEIZHEN, TRAINED BY HIM, AND THEY ARE BRILLIANT STARS IN THE WORLD HISTORY. WALTER WANG, PENGDEHUAI, LISHIMIN, WEIZHEN, QINGSHUBAO, CHENGYAOJING, CHAT FOR TEN THOUSAND YEARS, SINGING AND DANCING, SMILE NOW AND LATER. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 113.89.29.194 (talk) 17:52, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Future article expansion

Some historical and economic historical details

• here

in the promotional materials for the 2001 APEC summit, part of which occurred in the city. — LlywelynII 04:03, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

The Jasic Incident

Hey, I'm wanting to add details into this article regarding The Jasic Incident of Summer and Fall 2018. This was an event that consisted of protests, labor strikes, and political demonstrations in the city of Shenzhen, which is exceptionally rare in The People's Republic of China. S1d6arrett23 (talk) 20:58, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

The history section in city articles put very low to no emphasis on protests, labor strikes, and political demonstrations etc. Since this is also a recent event, may also lead the article to recentism Wikipedia:Recentism. For now, since this incident is barely impactful on the city of Shenzhen, the The Jasic Incident should not be included in the history section. It is rather suggested that this incident has more to do with human and civil rights in China rather than Shenzhen itself. - Josephua (talk) 02:25, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

Source does not support claim

I'm a fact checker looking to source the claim that Shenzhen is the world's largest manufacturing hub. I have been unable to locate a credible primary source for this claim so far. This Wikipedia article makes the claim and the citation points to a source that does not contain the claim.

The article says: "Shenzhen became one of the largest cities in the Pearl River Delta region, which itself is an economic hub of China, as well as the largest manufacturing base in the world.[31]"

The citation [31] goes to https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/mar/22/un-cities-mega-regions

It seems like maybe the sentence is trying to refer to the Pearl River Delta region as the largest manufacturing base in the world, which might be more provable, but is not what the sentence says grammatically and also is not supported by the underlyling link. Also the link is a 9-year-old story, pretty outdated for industry stats.

Apologies, I don't know Wikipedia conventions, hoping I'm leaving this comment in the right place. If I find a source I will update this page but I'm stuck right now so figured I would leave a comment.

Citadrianne (talk) 19:45, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Citadrianne To be honest, this article is a mess. The history section is missing a great deal of info. There is a lot of information that are either missing citations or have original research. Prose is also used, which is not a good sign in Wikipedia standards. If someone were to read this article, might as well use the Russian or Chinese versions and translate it. You can help improve it more than just updating or deleting an old unrelated source. - Josephua (talk) 04:37, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Wait I misstated, I meant bullet-points, not prose. Rip. - Josephua (talk) 04:48, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Proposing to merge Shenzhen (market town) to Shenzhen

I have proposed to merge Shenzhen (market town) into the history section of the "Shenzhen" article. I see no reason why the article should be itself, as I believe the history section can cover up all the information that "Shenzhen (market town) provides. - Josephua (talk) 03:51, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Chinese city expert @Esiymbro:, Shenzhen editor @WhisperToMe:, China editor and expert @Zanhe:: can you express your opinions on this? - Josephua (talk) 03:06, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

• Support - Shenzhen (market town) provides little more than the history section of the main article. -Zanhe (talk) 03:17, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
• Comment: The market town of Shenzhen could be developed as a distinct topic. See:
  • O'Donnell, Mary Ann, Winnie Wong, and Jonathan Bach. "Experiements, Exceptions, and Extensions." In: Learning from Shenzhen: China’s Post-Mao Experiment from Special Zone to Model City. ISBN 022640112X, 9780226401126. p. 9. I'm guessing the reason this was made separately is that the Bao'an County until 1979 is equivalent to Shenzhen today, and that "Shenzhen (market town)" was just a settlement in Bao'an County. Note that Nantou is also in what is now Shenzhen.
• WhisperToMe (talk) 03:58, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
  • • @WhisperToMe: Were present-day Shenzhen is to be equated with Bao'an County, then Bao'an County is useless by itself, and hey, I unintentionally got Shenzhen's history to match everything Bao'an County has, even though I imported all the historical information from the Chinese-version of this article. - Josephua (talk) 04:13, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
      • Sometimes old names are used for historiographical reasons. See: Talk:Constantinople#Article_name. The city was Constantinople under the Byzantines, then Konstantiniyye (Ottoman Turkish) and Constantinople (French) under the Ottomans, and now Istanbul after 1923 under the republic. Likewise the development of Shenzhen as an economic hub by the PRC government could be the big historiographical break between Bao'an County and modern Shenzhen. WhisperToMe (talk) 04:17, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
      • New info: Huang, Weiwen. "The Tripartite Origins of Shenzhen: Beijing, Hong Kong, and Bao'an." Learning from Shenzhen: China’s Post-Mao Experiment from Special Zone to Model City p. 69 notes that Bao'an County was converted into a prefecture-level city named "Shenzhen" in March 1979. In 1981 Bao'an County was re-established as a division of Shenzhen city. So even that title could still remain distinct. WhisperToMe (talk) 04:26, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
        • To be frank, the fact goes down to size. Istanbul, as well as the History of Istanbul article, cannot contain all the information that is about Byzantium and Constantinople, because they are two great cities that had changed history, and why is there are so much cited content for them, therefore justifying their existence as articles. We can also look at Beijing, and History of Beijing, and how the significant data of each city name cannot be contained in both of these articles because they will give Beijing and its affiliated articles enormous size and that there is a plethora detail of each city name. Now look at Nantou, Bao'an County, and Shenzhen (market town). They are not significant to be articles themselves, because of the scarcity of data. Shenzhen has enough room in its history section (plenty I should say, because before renovations, it was a mess that did not follow Wikipedia convention of cities) to fit all the information that makes up both Nantou, Bao'an County, and Shenzhen (market town). It can also be stated that Khanbaliq (Dadu) is different than Beijing, just like how Shenzhen (market town) is different than present-day Shenzhen, but Khanbaliq is still to us Beijing, that Constantinople is to us Istanbul, and so on. @Zanhe: Can you update your input based on this discussion? - Josephua (talk) 04:41, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
• Support. The topic itself is distinct enough to justify a separate article, but at the moment there is too little content. All the current content of that article can be covered by the history section here.

  (I'm no expert, though... Certainly not when compared to Zanhe and WhisperToMe -- They are among the greatest contributors to Wikipedia's China topic.) Esiymbro (talk) 07:53, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

• Alright then, so the decision has been made. - Josephua (talk) 16:06, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

• Ok! I'm fine with the decision due to the lack of content for now. If/when expansion happens, then it could be revisited. WhisperToMe (talk) 17:06, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Development in two photos

Guangming District

2012

2018

I just uploaded a photo from a hill in Guangming District and discovered that User:Aimaimyi had uploaded a photo from the exact same location taken six years earlier. Look at how those high-rises have shot up. Would this pair of photos be useful in some article to illustrate how fast construction and development in Shenzhen have been? —Granger (talk · contribs) 03:08, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

@Mx. Granger: I do not see a place where these two images would have a place in the article. I feel there are enough images in the article, and any more would make the article look less proper. Besides, high-rises sprawling up out of nowhere in like six years is a trend in almost every city in China, so the impact of these two images would make no difference in this article. - 祝好，Josephua^(聊天) 21:05, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

Historical crime info

From http://press-files.anu.edu.au/downloads/press/p152481/html/Text/appC.html?referer=118&page=19 I found a bibliography of articles related to crime in some Chinese cities, Shenzhen being one. My understanding is that crime was an issue in the 1990s/early 2000s but has gone down drastically. WhisperToMe (talk) 00:36, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

@WhisperToMe: Will be considered when I start renovating the Demographics section. Those Russian sources were sketchy anyway. (Five month late response >_<) - 祝好，Josephua^(聊天) 21:08, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Beijing Skyline.webp

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:53, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

GAN Justification

It's been awhile since the last Good Article Nom. Since then, many of the issues have been addressed, and there are several more citations, a big issue in the last GAN. Personally I think it's time to give this article another shot. Augend (drop a line) 00:36, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

@Augend: Not yet. The Culture, Politics, Cityscape, Relationship with Hong Kong, and Demographics still need work. Citations and prose are still big issues of the article. We would also then try to get this article up to B-status and then we can go for the GAN. But until these sections are renovated, the article would not go for GAN, and I am saying this as the most prominent renovator of the article, who fixed the History, Economy, Transport, and Education sections of the article. - 祝好，Josephua^(聊天) 19:20, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Virus outbreak

Did the corona virus also affect this town? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.10.99.140 (talk) 08:35, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

@178.10.99.140: Here's a link: [[1]]. It is not really important and addition to the article may count as WP:Recentism. - 祝好，Josephua^(聊天) 23:48, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Work on the Culture Section

@WhisperToMe: Since you are a resident of Shenzhen, I want to get your input on this issue. Recently, I renovated the culture section, giving it reliable citations while emphasizing prose. I cut down repetitive information through avoiding creating lists in prose form through commas. The result turned out to be four paragraphs of cultural information, which irked me as it seemed to be too short of the city's culture. To be frank, Shenzhen is a young city, so it probably has a culture that is emphasized very little. However, I want your input on this, as there is more culture in the city that you have experienced more than what is inputted in the article. I can add your inputs into the article and hopefully get at least one more paragraph within the section. - 祝好，Josephua^(聊天) 23:39, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

@Josephua: Thanks for the ping! I have an idea: There's an academic book called Learning from Shenzhen which might have some cultural info. Also the mix of people from different provinces and the influence of technology may be material for additional sections. WhisperToMe (talk) 23:47, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

@WhisperToMe: Thanks for the response. Looking at the content section of Learning from Shenzhen, I think it is great information when it is applied to other sections (Chapter 2 is really interesting when you put that into the Politics section of article; the use of prostitution can be applied to Crime, urban village chapter is great for Cityscape) but just not the Culture section. I am scraping the barrel when it comes to Chinese migrants going to Shenzhen. I could only find one reliable source calling Shenzhen a cultural melting pot, with all the other sources calling it that being blogs. The only evidence that can be seen in that is the culinary part of the Culture section, stating that Shenzhen is home to many cuisines and what not. However, I will be looking really forwards toward the influence of technology of the city. Could provide interesting results. - 祝好，Josephua^(聊天) 00:00, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

@Josephua: Awesome! I also found this SCMP article http://www.scmp.com/magazines/48hrs/article/1517060/theres-lot-more-our-neighbour-shenzhen-cheap-suits-and-massages and I'm hoping it helps with culture info WhisperToMe (talk) 07:12, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

@WhisperToMe: Added! Here's the paragraph that I did on the city's nightlife (sources can be found in the article):

Shenzhen has a prominent nightlife culture, with most of the activity centered in the entertainment complexes of COCO Park and Shekou, with the former being referred by the South China Morning Post (SCMP) as "Shenzhen's answer to Lan Kwai Fong." There are many bars and clubs in the city, mostly unregulated, that stay open till the morning. Tunnel raves, referred by the SCMP as "a Shenzhen nightlife staple", have earned a reputation in the world, though they are often cracked down by police. Police has also cracked down on prostitution and pornography, which were elements of nightlife entertainment in Shenzhen, with one of the most prominent operations being centered in Shazui (沙嘴村) in the Futian District in the mid-2000s, resulting in closures of entertainment businesses and a decrease of foreign tourists in that area of the city.

Does the last sentence fit, or is it better if it is put in the crime section. I also got to add some more information to the culinary section (especially in regards to diversity) thanks to the source you gave. - 祝好，Josephua^(聊天) 15:55, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

@Josephua: I'd suggest putting the last sentence in the crime section, and add which year the source was from ("As of .... police have also cracked down...") so people understand when that was true WhisperToMe (talk) 17:50, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

@WhisperToMe: Ah I see. I will get to it when I start reforming the Demographics section. The last sentence though is a bit of original research, because this was one case that was sourced out a hundred cases that were not sourced. I'll keep looking though. To be honest, does Shenzhen still have an active nightlife culture? It should be unregulated until a few years ago (2017 at best) when now a lot of people know Shenzhen and the government has to keep in mind of the city's reputation. Right now, the nightlife culture should be in better terms moderated than what was years ago, at least that was how I felt when I visited the city back in January before the pandemic hit. - 祝好，Josephua^(聊天) 03:42, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

@Josephua: Sorry for being late, but, yeah, there's a nightlife in COCO Park and the surroundings. WhisperToMe (talk) 14:11, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

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• Huawei 1.JPG

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Yale romanization of Standard Mandarin pronunciation

The infobox section on Mandarin pronunciation gives the Yale Romanization as Shēnzhèn, identical to the Hanyu Pinyin, but Yale_romanization_of_Mandarin suggests that zh isn't a Yale digraph. Wouldn't Yale romanize this as Shēnjèn? --Octavo (talk) 19:30, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

@Octavo Fixed. - 祝好，Sinoam^(聊天) 22:33, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Looks good! Octavo (talk) 04:44, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Some possible sources?

• https://www.defense.gouv.fr/content/download/190850/2104919/file/04_Strategic%20Horizons_EN.pdf
• https://www.metropolis.org/sites/default/files/resources/the_story_of_shenzhen_2nd_edition_sep_2019_0.pdf

WhisperToMe (talk) 01:38, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

@WhisperToMe: Josephua here (now Sinoam). I think we have enough information for now, unless you want to try updating the Economy section with the listed sites as the data used is 6 years old now. (We can still borrow stuff from the Chinese version of the article). - 祝好，Sinoam^(聊天) 20:08, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

About the mayor

Qin Weizhong was appointed mayor of Shenzhen Municipal People's Government in 2021.覃伟中任深圳市政府副市长、代理市长--作业是不可能写的 (talk) 03:33, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

@作业是不可能写的:  Done Updated. - 祝好，Sinoam^(聊天) 20:09, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Planning to turn Demographics of Shenzhen into its own article

@WhisperToMe, I just finished renovating the Politics section of the article and am planning to re-organize Demographics of Shenzhen. One of the things I'll be doing is spinning this section off to create a new article. This new article would contain all the information that is currently present in the Demographics section of the article. After this is done, I'm going to renovate the Demographics section completely by giving the section only 2 sub-headings Religion and Language, therefore shortening the section at a large scale. The lead of the Demographics section will cover 1) population, 2) foreigners and ethnic groups, and 3) life expectancy and population increase and decline, with each topic given a paragraph (therefore 3 paragraphs in total). Religion and language are self-explanatory. This section will be based off of the Shanghai article's Demographics section. - 祝好，Sinoam^(聊天) 22:39, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

@WhisperToMe: This is the submitted draft: Draft:Demographics of Shenzhen. I'm going to launch my changes into the section now. 祝好，Sinoam^(聊天) 01:23, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

@WhisperToMe: Can you also create a historical population template for Shenzhen? - 祝好，Sinoam^(聊天) 01:28, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

@Sinoam: If I can find the relevant population chart I can make one WhisperToMe (talk) 02:28, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

In addition to that, all the demographics is screwed up since the 2020 China Census came out and Shenzhen's population was shown to have skyrocketed to 17.5 million, disproving every estimation for the city's population in 2020, so we can no longer rely on worldpopulationreview for its data. Fixing the demographics section is going to be difficult and updating Shenzhen's population would be tedious. - 祝好，Sinoam^(聊天) 02:36, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

I found Statista but don't know if it's RS. It only goes from 1995 https://www.statista.com/statistics/466986/china-population-of-shenzhen/ WhisperToMe (talk) 02:41, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

I think Statista's data is also outdated, as it was released before May 2021, when the Census was released. I doubt it took into consideration that Shenzhen's population was going to skyrocket into 17.5 million and I think the estimate they gave would be similar to worldpopulationreview. - 祝好，Sinoam^(聊天) 02:48, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

I found it very interesting that Shenzhen's population at the end of 2019 was 13,438,800. That meant that by the end of 2020 according to the Census, 4 million people became permanent residents of the city in a year. That is insane. - 祝好，Sinoam^(聊天) 03:58, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

@Sinoam: I think we should use the best available we have now. If Statista's data comes from Shenzhen government sources, see if we can cite that data directly if in English, and if not maybe cite both Shenzhen statistics and Statista at the same time? WhisperToMe (talk) 04:57, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

There's not a lot of opinion regarding Statista as a reliable source: Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 269#Statista, Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 311#Statista.com, and the fact that Statista is based behind a paywall can turn off readers and reviewers. WorldPopulationReview is declared not reliable as a source due to original commentary mixed in with research: Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 261#World Population Review. Try to directly use government sources (including ones that are in Chinese; just type '深圳人口(year)' in your search engines to find out their population data) with this, as well as archives. - 祝好，Sinoam^(聊天) 05:06, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

@WhisperToMe: How is the population chart coming along? The administrators has also approved the Demographics of Shenzhen article so you're free to put anything you have in mind regarding demographics there. - 祝好，Sinoam^(聊天) 16:07, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Assessment

@Sinoam: B-class assessment doesn't really require a formal review though, does it? The article saw a massive improvement and all sections are now well written and well sourced. I'm no expert on this, but I would say that the article already satisfied all B-class criterias. Esiymbro (talk) 02:36, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

@Esiymbro: Yea, B-class assessments are not really formal, but I guess we can make it a bit more formal if you (and not me) changed the article's class to B-class since you're a Wikipedia veteran, especially in China/Asia-related articles. - 祝好，Sinoam^(聊天) 03:45, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

@Esiymbro: Also, I haven't received an update from @WhisperToMe regarding the historical population chart for the city so I was wondering if you're free to do one? You don't have to if you don't want to. - 祝好，Sinoam^(聊天) 03:47, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Sure, I did the reassessing.

I can try finding the historical demographic data, but no guarantee though -- records on earlier demographics are probably going to be hard to find. Esiymbro (talk) 04:09, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

@Esiymbro: What I thought was typing '深圳人口(year)' in the search engine of your choice and find the website (probably the government of Shenzhen one) and use that (as well as some translating, usually through an installed Google Translate option). - 祝好，Sinoam^(聊天) 13:55, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

There is a chart here published by the Statistics Bureau of Shenzhen. The data is from five national population censuses 1982 – 2020. Recently they also do a yearly city-wide population census, but it seems that a different criteria is used as the figures don't match, and the data don't go back as far as the NPC ones. So I guess those are all we have here. Esiymbro (talk) 04:35, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

@Esiymbro: I can try to find more data for you to put in the population chart. - 祝好，Sinoam^(聊天) 05:03, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

@Sinoam: Sorry... I'd been busy with stuff. Anyhow I found copies of Shenzhen statistical yearbooks on the municipal websites. Mind if I link them? WhisperToMe (talk) 22:46, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

@WhisperToMe: That would be great! Apologies if I was bothersome. - 祝好，Sinoam^(聊天) 00:40, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Its alright... lemme get those WhisperToMe (talk) 03:26, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

@Sinoam: 深圳统计年鉴-2019 - I'll see if there are more but one can google sitesearch "深圳统计年鉴" on *.sz.gov.cn. Good news is that it has English content too WhisperToMe (talk) 03:30, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Seems to be others dating to 2010. Also I found here stats on the numbers of schools from 1979 onwards. WhisperToMe (talk) 03:41, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

@WhisperToMe: I finally have some time to work on the article. I added the population data from your former link. However, I don't have the time to give each population a citation if you're available to do so, I would be thankful. - 祝好，Sinoam^(聊天) 14:25, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

The population are from each PDF in the former link. I'll also try to work with the latter link as well as some stuff regarding the education section, as well as deleting extra citations so the article doesn't bypass 234,000 bytes. - 祝好，Sinoam^(聊天) 14:26, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

@Sinoam: I went ahead and added a population chart. Please double-check the source and note I converted the numbers WhisperToMe (talk) 21:54, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 4 October 2021 and 9 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Cecilia haha.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 09:12, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Nominating Shenzhen as a Good Article

@WhisperToMe: I think Shenzhen has aged well as a B-class article despite some hiccups. I also checked your demographics source and it seems that everything is covered, so we only needed two sources for the chart, yours and the 2021 source regarding the 2020 China census in Shenzhen, so the chart will not be overfilled with sources that is dependent per year. I believe Shenzhen is now good enough to become a Good Article, since I think its quality is on par with Shanghai. - 祝好，Sinoam^(聊天) 14:02, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:38, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

When were the historical towns founded?

There is presently only a single source for these towns that is not specific about when the towns were founded. I think we should be able to find a better source for this claim. Czarking0 (talk) 01:58, 28 September 2024 (UTC)