Talk:Soccsksargen

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Untitled

http://www.nscb.gov.ph/activestats/psgc/PSGC_updates/reorg_Armm.asp

http://www.nscb.gov.ph/activestats/psgc/articles/intro_EO36.asp

The NSCB site is actually my source for information. Whoops, I must've put E.O. 31. It should be E.O. 36 --seav 08:30, Aug 18, 2003 (UTC)

Pronunciation

I think there should be some IPA note stating how is SOCCSKSARGEN usually pronounced... Ciacchi 20:59, 26 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I second that, if anyone is watching this page. When I first saw a link to this, I thought it was vandalism. —Cuivi é nen 23:44, 10 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I can't read/write IPA, if anyone wants to know, it's "sok-SAR-gen". --Howard the Duck 06:10, 23 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING

A GEOGRAPHICAL NAME THAT'S ALL CAPS IS FANTASTICALLY ANOMALOUS. WILL SOMEONE PLEASE MAKE THIS BE "Soccsksargen", PLEASE? --Milkbreath (talk) 02:14, 23 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's because the name is an acronym. --seav (talk) 02:20, 23 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, it's not, it's a portmanteau, often rendered even more ridiculously as "SoCCSKSarGen". Nobody spells "Tribeca" "TriBeCa"...hold on. O, my God. What the hell is going on in here? --Milkbreath (talk) 02:32, 23 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's an acronym, not a portmanteau (which combines words and their meanings together; e.g., spork for spoon and fork). Besides, it's written in all caps as stated in the law that created the region, Executive Order No. 36. I'll add this reference to the article, and revert the mixed case. --seav (talk) 05:58, 23 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, not to be argumentative, but no "Executive Order" can change good English usage. All caps is offensive to the eye, ruins the page its on, and flies in the face of the conventions of the language. It needs to be transliterated by those of us with some idea about English. (You're right about "portmanteau, but an acronym consists only of the capital letters that begin each word, hence the "acro-".) --Milkbreath (talk) 12:16, 23 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Er, no. First, acronyms do not necessarily have to contain only initial letters. Take sonar for example. The "so" there stands for "sound". Second, if you think all caps is offensive to the eye, then try lobbying to have NASA changed to Nasa. Good luck. Third, "SOCCSKSARGEN" is perfectly acceptable in Philippine English, or are you suggesting that an article on a Philippine topic needs to use American or British English? Please see WP:ENGVAR to be enlightened. Thanks. --seav (talk) 18:46, 23 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And I take offense in your suggestion regarding "those of us with some idea about English". The Philippines is an English-speaking nation and the United States and United Kingdom don't have a monopoly on "correct English". --seav (talk) 18:52, 23 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, aren't you the touchy one? I know that y'all speak English, it's the politicians that don't in whatever country you name. I was hoping you'd see yourself included in the "us" in "those of us who..." and get on board. NASA is not a placename, and it's not "SONAR", is it? Your attitude makes it clear that I was right in my suspicion that the matter is another of those political-nationalistic bones of contention that crop up here in Wikipedia, so I give up trying to convince you of the obvious, that "SOCCSKSARGEN" is an abomination. Good luck with your crusade. --Milkbreath (talk) 19:33, 23 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm the touchy one? You're the one that started this thread with an exclamation written in all caps (ironically) as if the name is a personal affront to your sensibilities. And it's utterly presumptuous to say that politicians in the Philippines don't know English. For your information, there is no "English Language Institute" that dictates that place names should not be in all caps. Who are you to say that an all-caps place name is "anomalous", "offensive", "ridiculous", and an "obvious" "abomination"? (FWIW, "sonar" used to be an acronym but since it became a regular word, it dropped the all-caps spelling. Besides, the "sonar" example is just to correct your wrong notion that acronyms have to be all initial letters and has nothing at all to do with whether acronyms should be capitalized, title-cased, or lower-cased.) --seav (talk) 04:04, 24 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

All caps it is. That's how it's officially named. Same with CALABARZON, CAMANAVA, ARMM, CAR, MIMAROPA, etc. Hideous acronyms are a common part of Philippinized English and are often used even in official language. See Acronyms in the Philippines. Shrumster (talk) 06:46, 24 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Philippine English to many may seem abominational to native Anglophones, but we can't do anything about it. I'm Filipino and a native Anglophone, yet Philippine English seems quite normal to me. However, I do have to agree that we are a very..."acronimous" nation. Personally, I wish SOCCSKSARGEN was renamed back to Central Mindanao, legally or otherwise. --Sky Harbor ^(talk) 07:01, 24 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We could change this to the CaMel caps... –Howard the Duck 10:18, 24 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that it's unfortunate, and I find the very practice apalling (it's indicative of bureaucratic gobbledygook dominating over geographic sensibilities), but a proper name is a proper name, capitalization included. I know someone formally named "Z19," whom everyone calls "Zee", but that doesn't give anyone license to enter his name as "Zee" in official documents, or, for that matter, in an encyclopedia. -- Alternativity (talk) 18:04, 24 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder when would USA PATRIOT Act be targeted... –Howard the Duck 01:58, 25 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 4 February 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved. (non-admin closure) Natg 19 (talk) 08:09, 18 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

SOCCSKSARGEN → Soccsksargen – WP:Commonname and WP:Concise. Apart from being easier to read and see, the media has begun using the lower-cased name over the upper-cased one as seen with these two articles. Also consistent with Calabarzon. Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 03:57, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support per WP:CAPS and usage : see headline in GMA "DA in Soccsksargen starts cloud seeding to ease El Niño's impact" January 24, 2016. (..but WP:Concise isn't relevant). In ictu oculi (talk) 07:34, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose as per discussion above. It's premature to say that lowercase is now the norm based on a few recent articles. -- P 1 9 9 ✉ 15:23, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support per WP:OFFICIAL. SoCCSKSarGen whose official name is written in all caps actually is styled in normal caps in most WP:RS like Google news.--RioHondo (talk) 01:53, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support per reasons listed above and for consistency, the region of Calabarzon is also an acronym, yet it is spelled out on Wikipedia in normal case. — Abrahamic Faiths (talk) 16:21, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.