Talk:Rockabilly/Archives/2015

Comment

On Elvis's "Jailhouse Rock", there is no sax.

fusion or precursor?

Was rockabilly really a fusion which included rock and roll, or was it a precursor to rock and roll, predating the existence of rock and roll?

Although historians can certainly find convincing examples of recordings which quite evidently place clear traces of the stylistic musical roots of (and transition from jazz to) rock and roll decades before it became a popular and identifiable genre, rockabilly certainly emerged fairly close to the birth of rock and roll as a recognised cultural phenomenon and it would be interesting to see if it is possible to determine whether it was rockabilly or rock and roll which was really the 'fusion' in the sense given in the article.

ericross

See First_rock_and_roll_record. Rock and roll is typically said to have begun in the 40s, even if it wasn't recorded until later, so it pretty definitely predates rockabilly, which wasn't born until 1953 or so. Tuf-Kat 16:40, Dec 11, 2004 (UTC)

Sorry, I did not make myself clear, but what I meant was:

Although rock and roll unquestionably has its roots traceable to material which appeared well before the advent of Rockabilly, I am wondering whether, just immediately before the roots of rock and roll transformed themselves from their jazz/pop precursors into rock and roll, one of those imediate precursors was not rockabilly.

I am obviously thinking of very early Presley recordings as an example of this.

I suppose the question revolves around things like:

What was the first rockabilly record?

To what extent were the earliest major rock and roll successes influenced by rockabilly?

Certainly we can think of 'lines of development' in rock and roll, where rockabilly had no discernable influence, because those lines can be traced to recordings made before and after the emergence and decline of rockabilly.

However to say that rockabilly was a fusion of rock and roll and something else, seems to imply that rockabilly was essentially influenced by rock and roll, rather than being an influence upon rock and roll, and it is the possibility that rockabilly could have been an influence upon the development of rock and roll (or at least that there was a bidirectional process of influence) that I wished to enquire about.

Ericross 00:37, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Oh, well there's no strict line between blues, rock and rockabilly. I guess it's more of a spectrum, really. So, yes, rockabilly certainly had an effect on rock -- it was the first fusion of the two styles. It had an effect both on country and rock. Tuf-Kat 02:46, Dec 13, 2004 (UTC)

Linguistic origin

When was the term "rockabilly" first used, and did it specifically refer to Elvis Presley? If so, when and how did it come to be used to refer to the genre as a whole? --kidbritish 20:01, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

The answer to the Elvis and rockabilly question is that, no, it did not, and does not refer specifically to Elvis Presley. I will be adding info that I just obtained references for, soon. I will also be following up on something that someone who hosts a huge Rockin COuntry Style database told me over the phone. Steve Pastor 22:46, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I heard from my source and he states that the term "rock billy" predates even the use by the Burnettes and Burlison. Note the use of the term in the text about the Saturday Night Jamboree. The first written use that could be found was in 1956. Lots of country music was referred to as Hillbilly music in the 40s and early 50s. Try the links to The Maddox Brothers and Rose, and other people listed as "forebears". Listen to their music at the Emory RCS site. Elvis was and still is sometimes referred to as "the Hillbilly Cat". The word "rock" appears not only in blues titles, but also in hillbilly titles and lyrics in the same time (as well as the Boswell Sisters in 1934 [1] [2] ). Put the two words together... "Verifiable" is where the hangup is. Steve Pastor 22:54, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Re: Stray Cats etc.

The Stray Cats were the crest of the wave of Rockabilly's re-emerging popularity in the early 80's becoming the most famous/successful of the genre at the time.

Also, note that The Cramps formed in the early 70's (1973, I think?) and what came to be called "Psychobilly" sprang up around them some 15 years later.

According to Wanda Jackson, "We called it Rockabilly before we called it Rock And Roll."

Interestingly, in an interview for BBC radio in the early 1980's, one of the members of (Gene Vincent's)The Blue Caps commented "We didn't call it Rock'n'Roll, we didn't call it Rockabilly, in the beginning we called it Rythymn and Blues, that was all we ever called it."

Stray Cats, Country Music etc.

I've heard that rockabilly was still popular in the UK when the Stray Cats came along, but to American listeners the group was something of an anomaly: rockabilly had essentially migrated to country music by the time the Stray Cats hit American shores. Many of the original rockabilly acts, including Elvis Presley, Johnny Cash, Jerry Lee Lewis, Wanda Jackson and perhaps Roy Orbison, were enjoying greater success on country radio than on pop radio. Also, rockabilly was a major influence on the outlaw sound (Waylon Jennings was a protege of Buddy Holly. Even the modern psychobilly stuff is classified under alt.country. Of course, many of the original rockabilly hits were also major country hits, but American pop music had moved on.

Someone with more information than I do should write about the countrification of rockabilly. --Archola 8/24/2005

List of rockabilly musicians

The increasingly LONG (and often redlinked and vanity-laden) list of "bands" in the article was becoming a malignant growth on the article. I dragged all the info over to List of Rockabilly musicians where it properly belongs. wikipediatrix 20:31, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

bands

Hey,what about the Johnny Burnette Trio? Probably the biggest rockabilly band going outside of Gene Vincent and The Blue Caps! Ever heard of Sonny Burgess either???

What about The Palidans. This band was huge in the rockabilly revival. You mention The Beat Farmers, The Blasters, and may other west coast bands and not the Palidans???? Dave Alvin played with the Palidans for a short stint and remain friends to this day. In the 80's and 90's the Palidans played both USA and Over seas to huge crowds. Los Lobos and the Fabulous Thunderbirds helped discover them and helped produce their first record. They also went on tour with Stevie Ray Vaughn. I know this is to much info, but I just thought you can't mention the Rockabilly revival without The Paladins. JunkJohnson 18:19, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I must retract. I checked the list of rockabilly musicians and you have the Paladins on the list. I know your list of bands in the article was getting to long, but maybe you will reconsider the Paladins. They are huge in the rockabilly, roots rock scene. thanx JunkJohnson 18:28, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

dyeing bird mountains

Is the phrase "dyeing bird mountains" correct? what does it refer too? Rahulchandra 22:12, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Maybe somebody made it up. I Googled the phrase (in quotes) and got zero hits. Maybe it should be removed.

albalb -- 5 Oct. 2006

---

MATCHBOX…

Trev: 01.Nov 2006

One of the first main-stream UK charts successes in the late 1970's-early 1980's by a contemporary band was probably "Rockabilly Rebel" by Matchbox. This group had been in existence for a number of years, previously more as a Teddy Boy band (see 'Riders in the Sky'album). The nad was formed from members of The Houseshakers' (amongst others), who had supported gene Vincent on his final UK tour.

The first 'Rockabilly' album of Matchbox (also called 'Matchbox') has a very country-feel to it. The second album, Midnite Dynamoes, also has some very county-esque numbers, especially the instrumental 'Stranger in Nevada'. matchbox became less accessible as their work got more countrifed and commercial and the younger 'hep-cat' sound became more popular. The band also played the Wembley Country festival as part of the Rockabilly Night.

---

Rewrite Posted.

I read and agreed with the many criticisms of this inadequate and inaccurate article. Bill Haley is definitely NOT a rockabilly artist, the Stray Cats did NOT start the Rockabilly Revival, etc. So I got out my records and my reference books and posted some major revisions--complete with sources and images. I've tried to cover the major points without getting bogged down in detail that belongs in articles on individual artists or vanity projects and pruned the pointless and red-linked "see alsos" about such nonexistent genres as "gothabilly". Kingandrew 00:40, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Characteristics?

Shouldn't someone put the characteristics of rockabilly in the article? For example: you could put the lyrical themes, arrangements, track times, types of instruments used, vocal styles, etc.--Yellow Stripe 23:54, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

The article is horrible

This is without a doubt one of the worst articles on Wikipedia. WAY too many POVish statements with no citation. Throughout the article, it talks how glorious Elvis was Much of the article seems to have been ripped-off from some kind of an Elvis fan-site. This article is about the genre of Rockabilly, NOT Elvis! C'mon people you can do better than this.--Yellow Stripe 02:56, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. I'm a big Elvis and rockabilly fan but c'mon - this sort of junk is not encyclopedic:

"Clad in black leather, he sang his heart out, proving not only that he could rock, but that he had far more emotional depth to share than he had 10 years earlier."

"The King returned to live performances, setting attendance records across the USA."

"Although none of these captured the fire and excitement of 1950s rockabilly, they did create curiosity about the real music of that era."

"The Buddy Holly Story was a biopic starring the magnetic Gary Busey, who seemed possessed by Holly’s spirit..."

"...but concluded with a barn-burning concert sequence featuring Jerry Lee Lewis and Chuck Berry, proving they still had all the moxie and charisma that made them rock gods in the '50s. This was exciting, but was just the prelude to even bigger things."

All of this from the 'Elvis’s comeback and 1970s nostalgia' section. I would conclude that this is actually a subtle form of vandalism as it seems to be so embarrassingly far beyond non-POV fanboy-ism that it's actually meant to mock the subject matter - damning by excessive praise. This truly is a vitally important musical genre that merits a "Featured article" sort of article and this version is simply awful. - 74.242.231.92 (talk) 21:49, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

If you start editing that stuff out, I will support you. My contributions are in the initial period of the genre, and before. I KNOW the rest of the article is not so good, but I have other interests in my life. Want to start editing? Steve Pastor (talk) 00:12, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

help i really do need this information and did i get it? NO!!!!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.174.35.2 (talk) 03:58, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Response

Yellowstripe, I'd like to respond to your criticisms. First you ask why the article doesn't describe the basic rockabilly sound and instrumentation. It does:

"Together, they would define the rockabilly style: “nervously uptempo” (as Peter Guralnick describes it), with slap bass, fancy guitar picking, lots of echo, constant shouts of “go man go,” and vocals full of histrionics such as hiccups, stutters, and swoops from falsetto to bass and back again. [8] [9]"

As you can see, style and instrumentation are described, with two references cited. Could there be a ton of details on specific equipment used by various artists? Sure, but a general-interest article like this is not the place for such items. Several of the links at the end of the article offer such details for those seeking them.

Regarding Elvis Presley, there is no question that Elvis was the first musician to record in the style and that he was the key influence on those who came afterward. He was also a much bigger star than any of the other rockabilly performers and events that thrust him into the spotlight--like the 1968 TV special or his death in 1977--brought renewed attention to the music that launched his career: rockabilly. Here is how Peter Guralnick states it in the "Rockabilly " article on page 62 of the Rolling Stone Illustrated History of Rock & Roll: "For rockabilly started and in a sense ended with Elvis Presley. He was the colossus that bestrode its narrow world. Not that he was its most devoted practitioner by any means, nor even necessarily its most inspired. He was, however, undeniably the first, and the influence he exerted over every one of the singers who followed, either directly or by example, is incalculable."

None of this article has been "ripped off" from an Elvis fan site or any other source. It HAS been carefully researched, as the 30+ citations in the text demonstrate. What "POVish" comments do you feel lack citations? I can provide citations for anything you request.

I appreciate you taking the time to read the article. I'll be glad to work to make it stronger in response to clear criticisms. Kingandrew 04:58, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

== Whither Bill? ==

Can I ask how Bill Haley and the Comets got left out of this article?

206.136.32.215 17:25, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Cut out racist BS sentence

I agree with this action. Polio, Nuclear War with the Soviet Union, the Red Menance, and the war in Korea, were some of the fears of adults living in that era. There's more, but maybe now I don't have to develop the arguments. Steve Pastor 15:25, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Hank

Here is a list of Hank's "juke box dominating" songs from Billboard's web site: 1949 1 Lovesick Blues 1950 4 Why Don't You Love Me? 5 Long Gone Lonesome Blues 1951 1 Cold, Cold Heart 1952 3 Jambalaya 1953 1 Kaw-Liga 2 Your Cheatin' Heart. The majority of these songs can be described as songs about heart break. One analysis of William's songs finds that 75% of them were about heart break, etc. [3] His 1947 "Move it on Over" is often sited as an early "rock 'n' roll song, Jambalaya is energetic and well know, but... Steve Pastor 18:29, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Lefty

Please read about his music at [4]. Here is selected text "Frizzell's records, while offering a fair share of heartbreak and despair," -- "poignant "Mom and Dad Waltz" skirt sentimentality not only in the lyrics but also in the dirgelike fiddle lines and moaning pedal-steel fills, ultimately saying what many feel in their hearts. Similarly, the buoyant expressions of romantic love fueling Frizzell's debut hit, "I Love You a Thousand Ways" " -- "the tenderness he brings to his singing" I'm not seeing rowdy Saturday night rockabilly stuff here. Steve Pastor 23:09, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Sun recording were not all covers of blues songs

Regarding deletion of sentence on April 9, 2006... Sun released 5 records by Presley. That’s 10 songs. I Don't Care if the Sun Don't Shine is one of the sides, and "is a popular song, written by Mack David. This song was originally written for the Walt Disney Movie Cinderella. The most popular version was done by Patti Page in 1950". Elvis covered a Patti Page song! So the deleted sentence is incorrect. There are more examples. The "winning formula" was not simply Elvis doing blues. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Steve Pastor (talk • contribs) 15:30, 9 April 2007 (UTC).

Sam Phillips "quote"

There are several versions of this "quote"

Over and over I remember Sam [Phillips] saying, “If i could find a white man who had the Negro sound and the Negro feel, I could make a billion dollars.” (Sun Records co-manager Marion Keisker, citerad i Hopkins 1971: 66)

Marion Keisker ... recalled Sam Phillips saying repeatedly, “If I could find a white boy who could sing like a nigger, I could make a million dollars.” (Goldman 1981a: 129)

If I could find a white man who had the Negro sound and the Negro feel, I could make a million dollars. (Sam Phillips, citerad I Choron & Oskam 1991: 7)[ http://www.netikka.net/sek/docs/elvis-hela_avhandlingen.pdf] Elvis

Note the different words as the "quote" is repeated from text to text. The orginal "quote" is based on a second hand rendering. This is addressed in the following book -

After Elvis: The Posthumous Career of a Living Legend By Gilbert B. Rodman

page 32 “On more than one occasion, however, Phillips has denied making any such statement (Marcus, 198: 16n; Worth and Tamerius, 1988; 153n) and Keisker is the only source of direct evidence to the contrary.” [5] (emphasis added)

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First of all EVERY picture that is not in public domain used by Wikipedia is against the law. Their claim of "fair use" is "oh, we can make the picture a lower resolution and then its okay because we are non-profit" under the bogus Wikipedia foundation. SORRY, but under the US Copyright Act of 1976, a low-resolution change is called a "derivative work of content under copyright." Wikipedia is not a non-profit organization because they threaten to "all advertisements" if they don't get their money laundering from donations, and after reading the evidence of Wikipedia, Google, and YouTube executives in the Viacom x YouTube trial, Wikipedia's demise is finally certain. Wikipedia has knowing created opt-out copyright infringement which is a violation of copyright law, a violation of court rulings on file as far back as the history of the United States, and a violation of the US Constitution where copyright is an inherent right. Companies that obey the law will not hire a staff to "ask" you to remove content any longer. It's court and may the thousands of law suits coming to Wikipedia bankrupt your bogus company. Slanderers.

Japan

Should someone mention the rockabilly culture in Japan? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.195.188.89 (talk) 19:29, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

If you have verifiable information form an authoritative source, and think it's important, you could put it towards the bottom of the article. Steve Pastor (talk) 20:03, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

While there is a "following", it's no more of a following that all of the other things Japanese trends always niche up. It's the nation of marketing to niches. 24.48.160.108 (talk) 16:12, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Remaining Text before Cleanup ended

Feel free to work it back into the article.

• Most of Buddy Holly's big hits, including “That’ll Be the Day” and “Peggy Sue,” both of which were released in 1957, were his own compositions. Holly’s band was known as the Crickets. Holly died in a plane crash in 1959.
• Gene Vincent remained very popular in Europe and helped inspire the next generation of musicians there. Vincent died of a ruptured ulcer in 1971.
• Eddie Cochran—Humorously captured the details of teen life in his songs, much like Chuck Berry. Cochran was a gifted guitarist and songwriter, best known for hits like “Summertime Blues,” “C’mon Everybody,” “Sittin’ in the Balcony,” and “Something Else.” His slow songs generally showed a light touch and his rockers were exciting. He toured England to great success with Gene Vincent in 1960, but died in a car crash on his way to the airport to return to the USA.
• Ricky Nelson had other hits including “Hello Mary Lou,” “Lonesome Town,” “Travelin’ Man,” and “Poor Little Fool.” On these records, Nelson worked with major rockabilly musicians, such as Johnny Burnette and James Burton. He two hits after 1964. Nelson died in a plane crash in 1985.

Steve Pastor (talk) 20:54, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

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First of all EVERY picture that is not in public domain used by Wikipedia is against the law. Their claim of "fair use" is "oh, we can make the picture a lower resolution and then its okay because we are non-profit" under the bogus Wikipedia foundation. SORRY, but under the US Copyright Act of 1976, a low-resolution change is called a "derivative work of content under copyright." Wikipedia is not a non-profit organization because they threaten to "all advertisements" if they don't get their money laundering from donations, and after reading the evidence of Wikipedia, Google, and YouTube executives in the Viacom x YouTube trial, Wikipedia's demise is finally certain. Wikipedia has knowing created opt-out copyright infringement which is a violation of copyright law, a violation of court rulings on file as far back as the history of the United States, and a violation of the US Constitution where copyright is an inherent right. Companies that obey the law will not hire a staff to "ask" you to remove content any longer. It's court and may the thousands of law suits coming to Wikipedia bankrupt your bogus company. Slanderers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.237.68.223 (talk) 19:57, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Dwight Yoakum isn't a Los Angeles native

He was born in Kentucky and raised in Ohio! This is just simple fact-checking stuff, and something that seems pretty obvious at that. PinkPanther 04 (talk) 21:15, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

If you see something that is obviously wrong, and you can back it up, (verificable source) go ahead and make the change. The Revival section of this article is very weak. Steve Pastor (talk) 18:17, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

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Jump Blues

This type of music has been listed as an influence on rockabilly for some time now, along with "blues music". However, nowhere in the article is "jump blues" mentioned again. That plus the fact that jump blues is a kind of blues means that the way it is currently written is redundant. Also "the tenor saxophone is king in the world of jump", and "Jump tries to do with three horns and a rhythm section...". With the exception of the Comets, who had been a western swing band (horns were common in western swing) there are no horns in "pure" rockabilly. I've read a lot about Elvis, Perkins, Cash, etc, and although they mentioned blues (whitle coutnry musicians often played blues, too) I don't think I've ever read them mention "jump blues" as an influence. So, does anyone have referenced material (hopefully from a book) to back up the jump blues sentence that currently stands unsupported only in the introduction of the artcle. Steve Pastor (talk) 20:55, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

I think we should remove this jump blues bulls**t; there's no proof that any rockabilly musician was influenced by such a blues style. I read a lot about rockabilly, but I never read anything about jump blues, and indeed, if musicians had jump blues influences in their music, they play no rockabilly. Horns, trumpets and saxophones aren't rockabilly instruments. The yodeling cowboy (talk) 11:28, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

How about we replace blues music and jump blues with simply rhythm and blues. I've worked the rhythm and blues article, and everything is referenced. That label covers all "black" music from about 1948 through the 50s. I don't question that guys like Perkins, Presley, the Burlisons, etc, listened to and "were influenced by" black musicians of the era. They recorded many of their songs, after all. Just not "jump blues" in particular. And it certainly doesn;t deserve to be highlighted. So, does the suggested change work for you (and anyone else who cares to comment)? Steve Pastor (talk) 21:10, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

I support your suggestion. Rhythm and blues is as far as I know more considered as an influence of rockabilly. The yodeling cowboy (talk) 09:38, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

The Rockabilly Look

I removed this section and bring it here for discussion.

The Rockabilly look, either the men's version or the women version, can be vaguely but briefly described as what the "bad boys and girls" wore during in the 1950s.

In the United States, rockabilly fans have favored the greaser look, in which men have flamboyant pompadour hairstyles, with lots of hair pomade and long sideburns. They may also comb their hair straight back, but the pompadour is the most favored look. For clothing, men wear tight jeans or black slacks, brothel creeper shoes, thin “bolo” neckties, and leopard-skin accents.

In the UK revival, Teddy Boy fashions are popular while American fans have also adopted other 1950s-style clothing. Such types of clothing are bowling shirts, gas station "work" shirts, cowboy shirts, and Hawaiian “aloha” shirts, as well as the leather motorcycle jacket. The motorcycle jacket stems from the rockers, who needed them as much for fashion as for function.

Many of today’s female rockabilly fans are inspired by bad girl pinup models of the 1950s, such as Bettie Page. They often wear animal prints, horn-rimmed sunglasses, fishnet stockings, tight jeans & capris, or short shorts. (Perhaps the look can more accurately be described as what "bad boys and girls" wore in movies made about the 1950s, as it is doubtful that the average bad girl of the time ever heard of Bettie Page.)

Holding fast to this "bad girl" dynamic, women’s fashions in the rockabilly community have never really revived the true 1950s look of poodle skirts worn with letter sweaters, as such clothing was mainsteam during the era and not edgy at all. However, glamorous 1950s dresses, often with crinolines, have found some favor.

Tattoos are also popular among both sexes.

As is often the case with sections of this type, a large number of assertions are made, with no references. Most of this seems to be about the "rockabilly revival," and so is based on observations of people active in that "scene," and personal observation is not encyclopedic. Only one reference is provided, in regard to tattoos, and it is not very specific. The section should be left out until it can be brought up to WP standards. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 19:20, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Being Rockabilly to large degree, I just wear flannel and jeans, or plaid and jeans in the summer, with 50s style shoes. I'm not sure where the original author of the quoted section got his info unless he experienced it himself. 24.48.160.108 (talk) 16:14, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Ext. links in text

The multiple external links embedded in the text need to be converted into formatted refs. If this page at Emory University is notable and meets Wikipedia standards, it should be cited just as any other webpage. If it does not meet our standards, all those links must be removed. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 22:32, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Let's see, hosted at Emory University, thousands (tens of thousands) of samples of songs, at a law university, thousands of label shots, detailed explanations of how "ratings" were assigned... Yeah, I think think it meets Wikipedia standards. I am removing the tag.Steve Pastor (talk) 20:58, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Please convert one of those web page references to the "formatted refs" that is the current standard so that I have an example. I will convert to that as time permits. Your help with that task would be appreciated. Steve Pastor (talk) 20:58, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Another important band

Someone should probably also mention The Living End. One of the most sucessful rockabilly acts of recent times. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.233.218.149 (talk) 07:48, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

POV

"Clad in black leather, he sang his heart out, proving not only that he could rock, but that he had far more emotional depth to share than he had 10 years earlier. The so-called “comeback special” created tremendous excitement among the record-buying public, and Elvis’s newer, harder-hitting songs soon began enjoying major chart success." This article isn't for glorifying Elvis, it's for explaining the history of Rockabilly. Conversely enough, someone put this anti-Elvis sentence. The downside of articles about genres is that they must constantly be checked for neutrality, because you know there will be die-hard fans and critics who will want to slant the articles to their own viewpoints. --Whip it! ^{Now whip it good!} 04:51, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

I have worked long and hard on this article. But I haven't touched anything below "Additional Performers". If someone wants to start hacking away at unreferenced, non objective stuff in the second half of the article, I say knock yourself out. I will support you. I wouldn't have a problem with that stuff being spun off into a different article, much as happened with the Rhythm and Blues article, which ends when "soul music" begins. Steve Pastor (talk) 20:35, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Regarding the Elvis "comeback special", Elvis outgrew rockabilly by the time he was with RCA. The Jordanaires were singing backup and he was singing more ballads than "rockers". If I get involved in editing the second half, I would want the listed material about this appearance toned down considerably. Steve Pastor (talk) 20:43, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I wonder what the heck has Bill Haley to do with rockabilly? He played the Nothern Band style and no rockabilly. He used saxophones and was heavily influenced by jazz. Jerry Lee Lewis is another guy who wasn't a rockabilly musician. I think many people are confused about the term rockabilly. They regard it as similar to "rock and roll". See also the List of rockabilly musicians, which listed artists like Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, Bill Haley and Creedence Clearwater Revival as rockabilly. See also my notes on the list's talk page. Regards, The yodeling cowboy (talk) 08:59, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm going to guess that you know Haley was a Yodeling Cowboy at one time? And he was also in western/western swing bands, and even had his own bands in that "genre". He was playing that western stuff in Eastern Pennsylvania (after being in the Midwest)! If you listen to the stuff he did early in the 50s, it's clearly "country" influenced. Eventually he and others around him, found that people liked stuff that was heavier, and more like "rhythm & blues". Still, he and his music are an example of the evolution in "country" music, or western swing, or whatever you want to call it, into "rock and roll".

Now you can agrue that he didn't play "rockabilly", but what about when Elvis added D.J Fontana and his drums to the "Blue Mountain Boys"? Some people argue that there are no drums in rockabilly. Some stuff "classed" as rockabilly even has sax.

If you haven't been to the "Rockin Country Style" site, check out the information they have on Haley [6]. This is a great site, and they include him, which to me is a prettty good endorsement. The songs with the red dots are "pertinent".

Haley is one of those "inconvienent" guys who doesn't fit the mold, but I think he deserves mention here. Steve Pastor (talk) 16:17, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Oh, hey, Chuck Berry definately played rockabilly stuff, as did other black musicians. If you haven't read the stuff I added to his article about him playing "hillbilly" stuff, check it out. RCS doesn't include him in their list, however. I forget which book I read that listed other black musicians. Does Chuck deserve a mention here? I could live with that.Steve Pastor (talk) 16:23, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Some months ago, I read that rockabilly and black musicians cannot "agree". Rockabilly was created when white musicians played black rhythm and blues with their instruments, it was not the other was round. I admit, when the other musical attributes are present (slap bass, vocalisation, sparse line-up), it is possible to classify them as "rockabilly". Presley changed his style when he went to RCA Victor and recorded for them. At RCA, his song material was dominated by black urban songwriters like Otis Blackwell, he was backed by a vocal group (the Jordanaires) and his style was changed more pop-oriented. I think drums are part of rockabilly music, just as a piano is. I think also steel guitar and on some recordings, a sax can be part of a rockabilly song. But, to explain it with Bill Haley, rockabilly musicians weren't influenced by jazz just like Haley was. Sure, he played country music for many years, but - you said it - he played western swing, a style that incorporated many elements of urban jazz music. By the way, RCS aims ti list every "country and western rock'n'roll record and related styles". Terry Gordon explains that he avoided to use the term rockabilly, because in his opinion, rockabilly and C&W rock and roll are two different things. The yodeling cowboy (talk) 10:53, 10 April 2009 (UTC) Right. But he also evaluates each song based on a listed criterea,(http://rcs.law.emory.edu/rcs/criteria.htm] and "many"? of Haley's early songs with the Comets get the same "rating" as Elvis Scotty and Bill's "Blue Moon of Kentucky". I guess I would prefer to avoid what I consider to be "excessive pigeon holing", or too stringent arguments about did these guys play THIS, or did they play THAT.

I don't think we can resolve the question what is rockabilly, because there are too many probably equally valid answers. So, if you can;t live with him being in the article without qualification, would you like a sentence saying something like "Purists don't accept Haley's songs as rockabilly, although others recognize that a portion of his work was in the rockabilly style." We can use RCS for the second statement. Could you find one for the first? Steve Pastor (talk) 17:52, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

I think that's good. Craig Morrison writes in his book "Go Cat Go! Rockabilly music and its makers" about Haley's music: "Bill Haley is a predecessor whose style is a synthesis similar to that of rockabilly. Although his earliest recordings show him to have been a hillbilly and cowboy singer [...], the band in the Decca and Essex days was a modernized western swing band with with big band and Dixieland elements." Morrison later declares: "For some, Haley's version of this song [Rock the Joint] is bona fide rockabilly, even perhaps the birth of the style, but to my ears, it is an energetic rendition of an R&B song by s small western swing band. Certainly 'Rock the Joint' point toward rockabilly." Craig Morrison: "GO Cat Go! Rockabilly music and its Makers", University Press of Illinois (1998). I think we should Haley as an artists that played a similar style to rockabilly and we should say that there are some, which say he is a rockabilly, and some which say he is not a rockabilly. He's a kind of controversial musician in rockabilly music. The yodeling cowboy (talk) 09:03, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

what the hell is it?

Rockabilly is one of the earliest styles of rock and roll music, and emerged in the early 1950s.

Argh, can't we have the first sentence actually describe the music, not just say that it's an early type of rock and roll? 76.167.42.227 (talk) 17:38, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

weasel word tag rollback

This a verbatim recounting from the listed reference, not a lack of conviction by a wikipedia editor. With so many candidates for "first" of anything no one can really say what the first was. Steve Pastor (talk) 20:32, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

To long

Is it just me or is the article insanely long and over detailed. I think it's needs a major pruning and who sections could be cut down and turned into one paragraph instead of everything having it's own huge section. Ridernyc (talk) 01:51, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

I will support starting a Neo Rockabilly article where all of the unreferenced stuff starting with the Rockabilly Revival. I have seen at least two books that use the term "Neo rockabilly". That's because the second time around, the music was similar but different. And yes, I have references for this statement. The stuff on "original" rockabilly and its precursors is important, I think. Without that material you prune away all of the information that may or may not be readily available. And may or may not be correct. You can remove unsourced statments, whcich would accomplish the pruning of the article. I am always reluctant to do this, however, because someone put time into putting things together. I prefer the "spin off" article course. Steve Pastor (talk) 22:31, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

I disagree adding neo to a genre 9 times out of 10 is simply a neologism. Much of this information can be explained in one paragraph rather then 5 detailed a pragraphs in each section. Ridernyc (talk) 14:27, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

The historical flow is very poor. It jumps around chronologically. Notice the section on the Revival, then the Stray Cats and Blasters receive most of their mention in the Britain and the 90s section. Makes no sense.- Parsa (talk) 03:57, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

This issue slipped off the agenda, but perhaps we should get back to it. The article is over long and extremely difficult to follow with its many jumps and repetitions. I suggest a heavy pruning and some reorganisation are the only ways out of this.--SabreBD (talk) 09:16, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

"because of revivalists' unbalanced reinvention of rockabilly....many of rockabilly's essential ingredients have now been filtered out" Roy Brewer American Music Fall 1999. Go ahead and prune the sections after "Revival", most of which is not referenced. Meanwhile there is one musicologist's take on the revival. Steve Pastor (talk) 22:38, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

This is a bit harder to do than I thought, since there is sourced material in here that seems to need to be placed much earlier. I think there may be have to be a very radical resort in these latter sections. I will try to get on with this as soon as I can find some time.--SabreBD (talk) 07:27, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok. I have done this now. I had to go back into the revival section as there were many lonley sentences our of chronological sequence, so for the time being this is all in one section. I have removed all the unsourced material and a lot of things that frankly didn't seem to make a lot of sense. Hopefully we can rebuild from here with some reliable sources.--SabreBD (talk) 17:50, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Addtions in May 2010

A comtemporary band with washboard and jug? It's hard to figure what this has to do with rockabilly!Steve Pastor (talk) 16:05, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

1 HOrigins

Why there is a H before Origins? I can't find the H in edit but in view it says 1.HOrigins Broswer Chromium 9.0.597.16 Realdreamsplus (talk) 20:46, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

'Janis Martin on The Old Dominion Barn Dance Show' is not 'North of the mason dixon line'

The Mason Dixon line is the border between Pennsylvania and Maryland. Virginia (the Old Dominion) is south of the mason dixon line.

So, if this act was developed in Richmond, VA, it should not be listed as 'North of the mason dixon line'

Am I missing something here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.180.26.209 (talk) 05:27, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Neo-rockabilly (1990–present)

Isn't Imelda May a good example of current rockabilly? Novalia (talk) 03:33, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

I was going to mention Imelda May and her husband Darrel Higham both at the top of the current Rockabilly scene. Certainly a big oversight leaving them out of the article. --86.54.181.194 (talk) 11:00, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

I got rid of the reference to Bruno Mars because the two sources didn't mention rockabilly and his relationship with doo-wop is best characterized as influenced by the genre, not generative of music that is a member of such a genre (if doo-wop were even relevant in this article). I also removed the unsupported statement about "creative talent" because it seemed unuseful.Speedfranklin (talk) 02:42, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Elvis as originator

Not. from the Elvis Presley Talk Page "We had a long discussion here about whether or not Elvis was an "orgininator" of rockabilly, and, I think the evidence was that he wasn't... Steve Pastor (talk) 17:16, 16 July 2013 (UTC)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Elvis_Presley/Archive_30 Or, just read the article that goes with this talk page. Steve Pastor (talk) 01:16, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

See the Elvis on Beale Street section for the discussion which resulted in removing text in the intro of the Elvis article which proclaimed him as originator of rockabilly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Elvis_Presley/Archive_29 Steve Pastor (talk) 18:43, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Wow. I just read through that discussion again. Rather epic, I'd say. Interesting to see how we worked it out. Steve Pastor (talk) 19:09, 22 July 2014 (UTC)