Talk:Robert Dickson Crane

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I am afraid this entire article is suspect as it appears to have been either written by the subject himself aor somebody working with him using sources entirely written by the subject. Some of the claims are fantastic (escaping from a Stalin-era prison camp) and some are entirely self-serving (such as statements about Kissinger). This needs to be entirely re-written with true source material and until then, I am taking it on myself to edit it down. Whatever these case, its far too long for a very minor personage. I found nothing on his early days on either LexisNexis, newspaper archives, or on the Web (other than his own biographies. I did find a 1967 newspaper article identifying a Robert D. Crane at Hudson but further work will have to wait for another day.

Sgmiller 16:27, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I was accused of "vandalism." However Wikipedia policy states:

"The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. "Verifiable" in this context means that any reader should be able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source. Editors should provide a reliable source for quotations and for any material that is challenged or is likely to be challenged, or it may be removed."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability

As I pointed out, the only sources used in this article are sources written by the subject himself. I was intending to start over and try to do this article correctly with 3rd party sources which I why I started with a stub and was intending to build it back up if possible. Obviously somebody objects. Ok fine. Then what I am doing is removing the most eggrecious material such as the claim that the subject escaped from a gulag or that he was fired from various positions because of Henry Kissinger. I will be glad to put those back in when there is proper sourcing. More later

Sgmiller 17:06, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sgmiller, I created this page and contributed the original material. I am not Robert D. Crane and neither do I work for him. Please refrain from making baseless statements about this article having been written by the subject or someone connected to him.

With the exception of the article written by the subject "Compassionate Justice", all material has been referenced to 3rd party sources. Even the article "Compassionate Justice", though authored by the subject, is published on a 3rd party website. This article is particularly informative, which is why it is referenced several times. You yourself have chosen to retain some of the information from it.

As for some of the "eggrecious" (egregious?) material, I agree with some of your omissions, but not all. I have removed the following points until there is further reference:

That his great grand father was one of the financial founding fathers of Northwestern University
That he escaped from the Gulag twice
That he was the "principal advisor" of Nixon
The specific disagreement with Kissinger that lead to him being fired from the position of Deputy Director (Planning), NSC. Since both of them are still alive, its best not to mention it unless their is further evidence.
That Henry Kissinger had him fired from his position as the ambassador to the UAE.

I believe the following points should be retained.

His studies at Harvard, his education at Munich University and involvement in the anti-communist underground. In my view this information is useful and non-controversial.
His firing from the position of Deputy Director (Planning) of NSC. Kissinger was the Director at the time, and therefore it is fair to mention his name. As mentioned earlier, I have omitted the part about their specific differences.
His firing from the position of Ambassador to the UAE. Alexander Haig was the Secretary of State at the time, and Crane's position came under his purview. Therefore it is fair to mention his name. As mentioned earlier, any references to Kissinger have been removed.

Finally, I disagree with your characterization of him as a "minor personage". He has held important positions in the US government. He is the author of several books and articles. He is the founder (or one of the founders) of several organizations. And he is still active as an author and activist. Far more has been written on Wikipedia on far less significant people. A simple google search shows a lot of of his works and activities. Just because it is difficult to find information about his private life or career does not make him insignificant or a "minor personage".

Sage 19:44, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dr. Crane is a well identified lawyer and a muslim activist

well, If you read for Dr. Crane you will realize how significant his personality is. I can see why some may try to undermine his work because he wrote once: "Islam is the only solution. It carries justice in it's soul and in it's major and minor details"

He also wrote "If people in the US would read newspapers they surly will fear Islam". Ghamma2d (talk) 16:25, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Doctor?

Doctor? Sorry, having a JD does not allow one to call himself doctor. This is well known and accepted in the legal community, however disappointing and unfortunate for those who would love their law degrees to grant them the title. Cjs2111 (talk) 01:59, 23 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of Sourced Material

It is against WP policy to remove sourced material without discussion and that certainly should not be done by anonymous editors. I have accordingly reverted the material on the subject's role as advisor to Ahmed Yousef Sgmiller (talk) 03:47, 4 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Story of his conversion - bad reference

Crane's conversion is sourced by a link to a webforum-thread that is dead. I hope someone will come with something better, or it should be deleted. Good luck to all, Jeff5102 (talk) 11:57, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Gulag Claim

I have not looked at this page in a very long time and I see that the claim of having been imprisoned in a Soviet Gulag has been repeated yet another time. Since there has never been a shred of proof for this claim other than the subject's own statement, I am deleting it until such time that a reliable third party souirce for the claim can be produced.

Sgmiller (talk) 14:40, 7 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed Deletion

Actually I have looked more carefully at this article and find it devoid of reliable sources. Either the source is a publication of the subject himself or does not support the statement made. For example, the subject is supposed to have been a Nixon advisor but the source refers to a Reagan Presidential commission which hardly qualifies even as a Reagan "advisor". Also, the suject is supposed to have been a Deputy Director of the National Security Commission but I can find nothing on this either on LexisNexis, newspaper archives, or on the Web other than what appears to have been drawn from this Wikipedia article. I thought about trying a rewrite but since there seems to be no reliable sources on this individual, I am not sure what the point would be. Sgmiller (talk) 15:33, 7 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think the article should be deleted, but I also think that something seems fishy here... KConWiki (talk) 04:23, 25 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Parking links here for potential future use

Encyclopedia of Muslim-American History by Edward E. Curtis IV
- http://www.fofweb.com/History/MainPrintPage.asp?iPin=EMAH0072&DataType=AmericanHistory&WinType=Free -Easier to read/link version of the encyclopedia article above.
Here is a 261-page pdf document of "Guide to Holdings" from Nov. 2015 from the Richard Nixon Presidential Library & Museum. It lists hundreds of Nixon staffers and indexes their papers. What is interesting as pertains to this article is that a CTRL+F of that pdf for the phrase "Crane" has zero results.

KConWiki (talk) 04:52, 25 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]