Talk:Right Thru Me

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Move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. ~Amatulić (talk) 20:48, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Right thru Me → Right Thru Me — Per WP:MOSFOLLOW – all reliable sources use a capital 't'. Adabow (talk · contribs) 01:39, 30 January 2011 (UTC) Chase moved the page from "Right Thru Me" to "Right thru Me" (lower case 't'), per WP:CAPS, as prepositions four letters or less are in lower case. While I would normally agree with this, "thru" is not a proper word, and therefore should be an exception. "thru" is derived from the word "through", which is seven letters long, and would be capitalised if it were not stylised differently. The other thing is that most, if not all, reliable sources capitalise the letter. Adabow (talk · contribs) 20:15, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Strongly Support the move to "Right Thru Me" as all the media and the name on iTunes refer to it as "Right Thru Me" as it seems to be a derivative or slang for "through" not "thru." Candy o32 02:19, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Slang or colloquialization does not change the part of speech: "thru" is still a preposition. It's not Alex Da Kid but Alex da Kid. Yves (talk) 02:32, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

But if it were correct it would be 'Alex the Kid'. not 'Alex The Kid'. Adabow (talk · contribs) 02:33, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, it would. I'm not sure what you're trying to say...? Yves (talk) 02:36, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The word 'thru' is derived from 'through'. If it were spelt correctly it would be "Right Through Me", but 'through' is changed to 'thru', and one would think that you keep the same capitalisation... Adabow (talk · contribs) 02:46, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You're right; the abridgement of "through" does bring the word down into the character inclusion threshold. :\ Yves (talk) 03:03, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A quick search reveals it has been done either way and two consecutive posts by Xnux at WT:CAPS have both sadly received no response. Yves (talk) 03:13, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - not part of my rationale for opposing, but I greatly would have appreciated it if you had informed me, since I moved the page... my basis for opposing is WP:CAPS ("In general, each word in English titles of books, films, and other works takes an initial capital, except for [...] prepositions [...] shorter than five letters"). If the name of the song were "Right Through Me" then the middle word would be capitalized as "through" is seven letters long. "Thru" is an alternate spelling, however, it still serves as a preposition and is less than five letters. Our titling standards for captialization are not based on what the media uses. –Chase (talk / contribs) 05:36, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Furthermore, Adabow's argument for capitalizing "thru" is based on the fact that it is an alternate spelling of "thru" and we would title it "Right Through Me" had the song title used proper spelling. However, it did not, and as Yves noted above, slang does not change the part of speech. –Chase (talk / contribs) 05:40, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If slang is not a part of speech, then why are we treating "thru" like it is? If it is not, then it would be capitalized and be "Right Thru Me." Candy o32 22:19, 5 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand what you're trying to say. No one is saying slang is a part of speech, and I don't know why (s)he would. Nouns, adverbs, demonstratives, etc. are parts of speech; slang, i.e. informal jargon, can't be. Your sentence doesn't really make sense at all. :S Yves (talk) 22:24, 5 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I mean that since slang isn't part of speech, then why is it being lowercase and treated as such? Candy o32 13:18, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

How is slang not part of speech? :S Yves (talk) 18:58, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well slang isn't a part of speech, is it? That would mean "ain't" is proper. Candy o32 21:07, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Thru" isn't even slang, even though I improperly called it as such above - it's simply misspelled. –Chase (talk / contribs) 21:45, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Thru" was originally used on signs when "through" would have been too long to write, which is many drive-throughs spell it "drive-thru" or traffic signs have "No Thru Traffic". It is used in legal documents ([1], [2], [3]). Yves (talk) 22:28, 9 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well then this makes my point as in "No Thru Traffic," the word is capitalized. Candy o32 23:38, 9 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

And if we had an article about that traffic sign (which we do not), it would be titled "No thru Traffic" per WP:CAPS. –Chase (talk / contribs) 21:14, 10 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I just wrote it "No Thru Traffic" because that is how it is sic at sign stores. The actual signs are all caps, so no argument can be made there. Yves (talk) 21:25, 10 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, slang is not the same as a misspelling. Second of all, even if this was slang, its meaning in this context would still make it a preposition. –Chase (talk / contribs) 21:48, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I still stand by as intended to be meant as "through," "thru" should not be taken literally as a preposition in this case and capitalized. Candy o32 03:26, 9 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Thru" indeed should be seen as a preposition as it is an alternate spelling of a preposition. –Chase (talk / contribs) 21:25, 9 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Furthermore, Candy, dictionary.com notes that this can be either a preposition, adverb, or adjective (and it takes the form of a preposition here). It's not just a random word with no part of speech. –Chase (talk / contribs) 21:17, 10 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Weak support the move to lowercase "thru". A January discussion seems to have concluded that capitalization might be okay in borderline cases where reliable sources express a clear consensus. On the other hand, a literal reading of the MOS suggests that we shouldn't be capitalizing. And of course, a survey of other existing "thru"/"Thru" titles in the encyclopedia reveals that, really, we don't have any consistency on this topic. Personally? I think the MOS is wrong here, and preposition capitalization is more nuanced than a letter count. But significant changes to policy require a consensus -- and a better one than the discussion I linked above provides. Thus, I'm going to suggest a lowercase "thru" for now, and presentation of the wider issue to a MOS RFC in future. Serpent's Choice (talk) 22:50, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 21:09, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

WP:VOTE, we don't vote, please explain why you support the move. –Chase (talk / contribs) 21:42, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Especially on this page, when people are using both "oppose" and "support" to refer to the same thing. Darkfrog24 (talk) 21:03, 12 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This is going nowhere, so I've left a message at WT:MOS to see if someone with a bit more knowledge can put their two cents in. Adabow (talk · contribs) 03:31, 9 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Answering your call... The proper title should be "Right Thru Me". The reason being that "Thru" is an 'artistic' derivative of an existing word, and therefor not a proper preposition subject to grammar, and therfor should be capitalised. A similair discussion was held on Straight Outta Lynwood a few years with the above coming out as consensus. — Edokter • Talk • 13:38, 9 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That's a different case as "Outta" serves as a preposition and it is five letters. "Thru" also serves as a preposition but it's four letters. –Chase (talk / contribs) 21:23, 9 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Similar to Straight Outta Compton, which had a similar discussion on its talk page. (The album also contains the song "Fuck tha Police".) Yves (talk) 04:54, 10 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose moving the article from "Right thru Me" to "Right Thru Me." "Thru" might be an "artistic" word, but it's an artistic preposition. Prepositions should not be capitalized in title case. Also, music programs like iTunes routinely use improper capitalization. We should not copy their mistakes. Darkfrog24 (talk) 15:31, 9 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment You guys are going in rounds. First establish how you want the word through? Do you want it as an artistic word, or the derivative of a preposition? If the former, then "Right Thru Me", else the other option. Simple. — Legolas ^(talk2me) 03:34, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Those things are mutually exclusive? Yves (talk) 03:44, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Strong support "Thru" is not "through" and should be an exception. I also highly doubt iTunes or her label would have misspelled it on her CD. --ĈÞЯİŒ 1ооо 12:53, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- It's not a misspelling. Yves (talk) 14:48, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - Your point? --ĈÞЯİŒ 1ооо 22:30, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - You can't use the CD for anything, and it's not a misspelling. I'm not sure what your point is, or what your view is. Yves (talk) 23:21, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      - Fine! It's an improper capitalization! Happy? And yeah, if every retailer on the planet and the CD booklet lists it as "Right Thru Me", it's correct. --ĈÞЯİŒ 1ооо 23:26, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        Again, you can't use the CD booklet: it capitalizes every word. We don't write the opening track as "I'm The Best". (Also, it's not a booklet, but a fold-out page.) Yves (talk) 02:03, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        True, yet iTunes and other digital retailers list it as "Thru." --ĈÞЯİŒ 1ооо 02:16, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Another point – the MoS is used when sources give conflicting names. See Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Follow the sources: "Many points of usage, such as the treatment of proper names, can be decided by observing the style adopted by high-quality sources. Unless there is a clear reason to do otherwise, follow the usage of reliable English-language secondary sources on the subject." I have not seen one source that gives "Right thru Me", therefore the title she be in line with the sources (ie capital 't'). Adabow (talk · contribs) 22:28, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support, the five-letters rule or whatever it is is entirely arbitrary anyway. If all the sources agree on how to write the name, we don't have a problem that would need to be solved by applying the rule - we just report what the sources do.--Kotniski (talk) 11:38, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support, iTunes, Amazon and BestBuys all list the song on the trackllisting of Pink Friday as "Right Thru Me"... The "five-letter rule" is basically bullshit when it comes to songs... Artists spell things a different way for artistic reasons. The "T" is officially capital in the song, so if we don't have it that way on wikipedia, than the whole site's rules might as well change... Theuhohreo (talk) 19:43, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Have we not reached consensus on this yet? We only have one oppose. --ĈÞЯİŒ 1ооо 16:49, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's not about voting, it's about reaching consensus. While it seems to be heading towards a move back, it is up to an admin to close the reqmove, anyway. Adabow (talk · contribs) 03:48, 11 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah and consensus says capital "T." --ĈÞЯİŒ 1ооо 12:54, 11 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Thru not capitalised

Why is the word 'thru' not capitalised?

Maybe you hadn't noticed, but look at the section above. :) Yves (talk) 19:30, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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