Talk:René Vallon

This article was submitted or expanded as part of the 2024 Wikipedia Asian Month.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the René Vallon article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Biography

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography

Aviation: Biography

This article is within the scope of the Aviation WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.AviationWikipedia:WikiProject AviationTemplate:WikiProject Aviationaviation

This article has not yet been checked against the criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar and style: not checked Supporting materials: not checked	To fill out this checklist, please add the following code to the template call: \| b1<!--Referencing and citation--> = <yes/no> \| b2<!--Coverage and accuracy --> = <yes/no> \| b3<!--Structure --> = <yes/no> \| b4<!--Grammar and style --> = <yes/no> \| b5<!--Supporting materials --> = <yes/no> assessing the article against each criterion.

This article is supported by the aerospace biography project.

China Low‑importance

	China portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject China, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of China related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChinaWikipedia:WikiProject ChinaTemplate:WikiProject ChinaChina-related
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

France Low‑importance

	France portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of France on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FranceWikipedia:WikiProject FranceTemplate:WikiProject FranceFrance
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

A fact from René Vallon appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 22 December 2024 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that René Vallon (pictured) achieved the first aeroplane flight, and was the first aeroplane-related death, in China?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2024/December. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/René Vallon.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 17:23, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

René Vallon

... that René Vallon (pictured) achieved both the first flight and first flight-related death in China?

Source: Areddy, James T. (22 February 2011). "China Marks 100 Years of Flight". The Wall Street Journal. Shanghai. Archived from the original on 2 July 2022. Retrieved 6 November 2024.

Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Gitmo playlist

Created by Crisco 1492 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 703 past nominations.

— Chris Woodrich (talk) 19:47, 6 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

I don't causing a death is an achievement. The first flight is. Kablammo (talk) 00:28, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- It was intended for brevity. How about ALT1 ... that René Vallon (pictured) achieved the first flight in China, but died less than three months later in the country's first aviation accident? — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:41, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - Yes. Kablammo (talk) 01:40, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    - I wonder if another verb would work, such as: "... that R V is known for both..." ProfGray (talk) 03:03, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      - That could work too. ALT0a ... that René Vallon (pictured) is known for both the first flight and the first flight-related death in China? — Chris Woodrich (talk) 04:04, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        ALT0a could be revised since the wording is rather vague and doesn't make it clear that he was the first flight-related death in China. The hook could be interpreted to mean he was involved in the death without saying he was the fatality. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:30, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        ALT0b: ... that René Vallon (pictured) is known for both achieving the first flight and being the first flight-related death in China? — Chris Woodrich (talk) 10:49, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

With multiple ALT hooks proposed, a reviewer is needed to ensure the article and hooks are approved, and to comment on which ones are the most interesting. Z1720 (talk) 15:21, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I will do the review and I will share my opinion about the hooks. ProfGray (talk) 17:33, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hook idea, without known for: that René Vallon (pictured) achieved China's first flight and was its first flight-related death? -- But I might insert "and, three months later..." to clarify that aspect. ProfGray (talk) 20:04, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: NPOV and clear. Impressive use of historical sources -- I looked at a few, didn't notice any problems, nor did Earwig. There's an image of the crashed plane, though prob not suitable for DYK. ALT0b is fine and maybe we tweak to make it shorter. ProfGray (talk) 19:55, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I'll do this as an ALT in case the promoter is interested: ALT0c "... that René Vallon (pictured) achieved the first flight and was the first flight-related death in China?" — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:21, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Questions about the article

Depagniat has the first flight on February 20th, so that's an error?

No name for his wife?

"Intended" for burial but the burial place not known? I see it's not in the infobox.

Hope all you hard work on this and other articles is appreciated! ProfGray (talk) 00:13, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I tried looking for her name, but only found "Mme. Vallon", and "intended" because the source couldn't specify where. There are likely less than reliable sources like Ancestry, but they wouldn't be useful here. As for the 20th, it does appear to be an error. The 21st is the most widely reported date (1, 2). The Paper, meanwhile, gives the 25th :/ The French press seems to have focused only on his flight over the International/French Settlements, rather than his earlier flights. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:19, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

First heavier-than-air flight in China?

I can't fully access the WSJ article that this claim is cited to, but from the part I can see, it seems to say that Vallon achieved the first powered flight, not the first heavier-than-air flight. Manned kites have been used in China for hundreds of years, so it seems incorrect to say that Vallon achieved the first heavier-than-air flight. Does the source really support this wording? CodeTalker (talk) 08:45, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]