Talk:Public-benefit corporation

Changed to disambiguation page

The current version of the page already served the purpose of a disambiguation page, but was not using the style of a disambiguation page. I think in the new style it will be easier to use. I will move the examples of benefit corporations to the Benefit corporations page. Delius (talk) 10:46, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Update: User:Onel5969 has reverted the change. I have asked them to join the discussion here.

Problem with Hebrew-English term

Something is wrong with the linking of this page to the page in Hebrew - according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_association, this is not the right translation for the page.147.236.176.90 (talk) 21:10, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

This article isn't right

It looks like the definition of "public benefit corporation" as used in this article reflects a definition unique to New York law (in the sense of implying that a public benefit corporation is essentially a form of state-controlled corporation). In many other states, including California, a "public benefit corporation" is a IRC 501(c)(3) tax-exempt nonprofit corporation, while a "mutual benefit corporation" is a nonprofit corporation that is either not tax-exempt or is tax-exempt under some IRC section other than 501(c)(3). This article needs to be fixed to show that New York's definition is an unusual one. --Coolcaesar 06:32, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Wow, this article is still a mess. Unfortunately, I'm still way too busy with depositions and law and motion practice to deal with this. And my main Wikipedia priority at the moment is fixing the Attorney at law article and fighting off vandals on articles I've invested a lot of time in, like Lawyer. --Coolcaesar 06:34, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Four months later. Still a mess. Sad. Very sad. This is the classic example of an orphan article because everyone is too busy cleaning up other articles to clean it up. In my opinion it would be better to not have an article like this, which is an incoherent mess, than to have it at all. --Coolcaesar (talk) 16:39, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

I have finally done some preliminary research on InfoTrac OneFile and ProQuest eLibrary. It appears that the most common and neutral terms for a corporation owned by the government are "government corporation" and "government-owned corporation." In most U.S. states, a "public benefit corporation" is simply a IRC 501(c)(3) tax-exempt nonprofit corporation that is run for the public benefit (but is not a government agency or even controlled or funded by the government).

I propose moving most of the content in this article into Government-owned corporation, and then making this article into a disambiguation page between Nonprofit organization, Not-for-profit corporation, Government-owned corporation, New York State public benefit corporation. Any objections? --Coolcaesar (talk) 07:01, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Okay, it's been three weeks and no one objected. --Coolcaesar (talk) 09:08, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I am hesitant to delete other efforts, but this is a really bad article. I don't see anything worth saving - except the title. Gadickson2002 (talk) 20:42, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Merge proposal

There is a merge proposal at Talk:Public-benefit nonprofit corporation.Pontiff Greg Bard (talk) 21:48, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

This article is primarily a American article. Other article exist in Wikipedia with different titles meaning the same thing.

e.g.

• Statutory authority
• Quango
• Independent agencies of the United States government
• Regulatory agency
• Visik (Chinwag Podium) 08:22, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

@Gregbard and Visik: While these seem similar at a glance, I think there is a difference we should strive to make more clear. Consider the Port of London Authority as the example of a Public-benefit corporation, established to "administer, preserve and improve the Port of London." by an act of government stating "Authority is hereby given....". This is delegation of government authority and responsibility to an organization which is not, however, directly managed or funded by the government. I'm not sufficiently educated in political theory to precisely define government authority or responsibilities, but it has something to do with natural monopolies, common-pool resources, or a goal of impacting a whole society or economy, like the Federal Reserve.

On the other hand, "a benefit corporation is a type of for-profit corporate entity... that includes positive impact on society, workers, the community and the environment in addition to profit as its legally defined goals." These are organizations which seek to have beneficial social impacts and generate profit, but are in no way associated with government authority or responsibilities. While they are trying to do "good" for society, their benefits needn't be "public" or be driven by a societal or political perspective, but can be directed towards their immediate neighbors.

There's been some confusion in these articles. Without checking the sources, I'm guessing American Prison Data Systems, mentioned in Public-benefit corporation#United States, is actually a Benefit Corporation. The terminology is surely confusing, and the above discussion demonstrates that 501(c)(3) organizations also use the term "Public-benefit corporation". We will need to work to make our terms and distinctions clear to readers; it's obviously not clear even to us! I'd love to see an existing reference work discuss these organization types rather than depending on sources which merely discuss one or the other separately. Sondra.kinsey (talk) 20:43, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Merge but understand that a Public Benefit Corp is exactly the same thing as a Benefit Corp. In some jurisdictions Public Benefit Corps have quasi-govermental status. The Columbian Journalism Librarian (talk) 22:01, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

References

Merger Proposal

I propose that Benefit Corporation be merged into Public-benefit corporation. The articles describe the same corporate form (if you look at the statutes referenced, this is clearly the case). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.237.168.50 (talk) 21:00, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

CG: These articles should not be merged. A public benefit corporation and a B-Corp are quite different (at least in the U.S.). A Public Benefit Corporation, or sometimes just Benefit Corporation, includes a specific legal commitment in its State approved ByLaws. A B-Corp is any for-profit entity that is certified by the nonprofit B Lab. As described by B Lab, "Certified B Corporations are businesses that meet the highest standards of verified social and environmental performance, public transparency, and legal accountability to balance profit and purpose" — Preceding unsigned comment added by ColoradoGeneralist (talk • contribs) 15:11, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

I agree with the above edit. A Public Benefit Corporation in the United States must meet several considerations to be a B Corp. I would vote against merging these two articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Asparish (talk • contribs) 22:41, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

Closing, given the opposition and lack of support. Klbrain (talk) 23:18, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Resolved

There is an entire other article about Benefit corporations. This article is indeed a mess and so I am deleting most of it, leaving the explanation that the term is used in at least two very different ways depending on the jurisdiction. Mastimido (talk) 17:57, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

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Proposed revisions

I work in marketing for Veeva Systems, a public benefit corporation, and therefore have a potential conflict of interest. Since the current page is only two sentences and has no citations, I wanted to share a potential draft I believe is neutral, properly cited to legal scholars, and an improvement over the current page. My hope is that more impartial editors will consider using all or part of the draft to jump-start the page, at which point it might continue to improve through the normal incremental process. The draft also helps elaborate the difference between public benefit corporations and some similar concepts that have their own Wikipedia pages. Meaganbusath (talk) 22:40, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

I've read your draft and, although it explains the difference between a public-benefit corporation and a the B Corporation certification, I don't understand the difference between and a benefit corporation. I have a suspicion that they are actually the same thing, which is what I think Mastimido thinks. (They cut the article down to two sentences.) If so, the article might as it is might as well be moved to Public-benefit-corporation (disambiguation). Noaht2 (talk) 16:34, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

Concur with User:Noaht2. I also want to belatedly voice my support at this point for User:Mastimido's sudden reduction of the article to two sentences. The better option would have been to expressly propose the reduction in advance, but it was clearly necessary because the existing article was an utterly incoherent and unsalvageable mess. The only people with the advanced knowledge of comparative corporate law necessary to clean up such a mess are probably too busy serving their paying clients, so the next best option is to start over from scratch.

The underlying problem is that there is an irreconcilable split between jurisdictions over whether a "public benefit corporation" should be allowed to be for profit, or whether that very idea is an oxymoron, so as a result, the phrase is now used to describe two drastically different types of corporations. For example, in California, a "public benefit corporation" is a type of nonprofit corporation under the California Nonprofit Corporation Law. A well-known example of this is ICANN (see the ICANN articles of incorporation]). I am not a specialist in corporate law, but my vague understanding (which may be incorrect) is that part of the problem is that other states refused to follow the major reforms implemented by California due to the scandal arising out of Marvin Braude's unsuccessful attempt to run for a seat on the board of the Automobile Club of Southern California. --Coolcaesar (talk) 19:24, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

@Noaht2: and @Coolcaesar:. "Benefit Corporation" is a general term for any legal entity in any state that is required to balance the interests of shareholders with the public. "Public-Benefit Corporation" is the term used by the state of Delaware for benefit corporations organized under Delaware state law. In corporate law, the state of Delaware is probably more important than all other states combined, because most large American companies are organized under Delaware law.

The source material explains this, though not all that well. For example, Reuters says "'public benefit corporation,' a Delaware legal structure gaining attention among would-be financial reformers." Citation 5 in the draft I shared from the Delaware Journal of Corporate Law says on page 86: "(and most states) use the term 'benefit corporation' while Delaware employs the term 'public benefit corporation'"

In other words, "Public-benefit Corporation" is a type of benefit corporation adopted by the state of Delaware. Meaganbusath (talk) 03:09, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

There are plenty of potential citations for "Public-benefit corporation" & Delaware:

• ""Public-benefit corporation" Delaware". Google Search. Retrieved 2021-03-31.

Peaceray (talk) 17:11, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

And there are roughly three times as many for "public benefit corporation" and California. --Coolcaesar (talk) 18:04, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Coolcaesar:. According to the Delaware Journal of Corporate Law: "Delaware's term may cause some confusion, as some states, such as California, use this term to refer to nonprofit corporations." Hence, the search results for "Public-Benefit Corporation" and "California" are so voluminous, because those search results are referring to the more common non-profit entity of California, as opposed to Delaware's public benefit corporation structure. IMO, Wikipedia can make a big impact in helping to clear up all of this confusion by educating its readers. Hope this helps! Best regards. Meaganbusath (talk) 21:09, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

References