Talk:Phoebe Plummer

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Neutrality

Think editors need to be careful on neutrality here. Plummer is an activist convicted by English courts and is thus also a criminal. Venividiscripsi (talk) 13:45, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The word 'criminal' is anything but neutral in this context, because it evokes associations with the organized, serious criminal circuit. It is unnecessary to call them 'a criminal' because - as you yourself say - that information is already in the word 'convicted'. Moreover, they are appealing, the case is not over yet. 2001:1C08:70C:3800:D480:F100:634C:B700 (talk) 17:48, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with your edit. Appeals not relevant (though could be added). Venividiscripsi (talk) 21:08, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Venividiscripsi: The word "criminal" is a value-laden label and its use needs to be supported by reliable sources that use the word to describe the subject. See MOS:LABEL and and the essay about Wikipedia:Crime labels. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 16:35, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Late to the party, but yes. Venividiscripsi (talk) 17:34, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 17:42, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

( Comment or view )

( Article history links:

)

... that during Phoebe Plummer's May 2024 jury trial over a climate protest, the court finished early on several days due to the heat? Source: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/15/uk-climate-activists-convicted-in-first-trial-of-new-anti-protest-laws
- ALT1: ... that an October 2022 protest involving Just Stop Oil member Phoebe Plummer inspired many activists worldwide to throw food at paintings? Source: https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/11/17/just-stop-oil-phoebe-plummer-prison/
- ALT2: ... that when Phoebe Plummer and Anna Holland faced trial over the Just Stop Oil Sunflowers protest, they were "unfortunate" to draw Christopher Hehir as judge? Source: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/30/just-stop-oil-soup-throwing-protests-moral-toddlerhood/
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Zero-emission zone in Oxford, Template:Did you know nominations/CyberJoly Drim, Template:Did you know nominations/Ajah Pritchard-Lolo, Template:Did you know nominations/Alison Creagh
- Comment: Plummer was created 27 September, though I did a 5x expansion on 2 October, added Just Stop Oil Sunflowers protest three days later, added Christopher Hehir two days after that, and added Holland on 5 November.

Created by Launchballer (talk) and Folkezoft (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 253 past nominations.

Laun chba ller 03:13, 2 October 2024 (UTC).[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Ooh, a quadruple hook. All of the articles are new enough, long enough, and well cited. There are a few places where phrasing could be a bit more neutral (I feel like inspired would be better than empowered, for example), but those may also be stylstic considerations. Earwig isn't happy, but it's the large block quote that speaks to Plummer's inspiration in that instance. Ideally Hehir's article would have a bit more on his early life, but if the sources aren't talking about it, rather difficult. (Minor quibble: the source says "unfortunately" rather than "unfortunate", but I think it works here). — Chris Woodrich (talk) 19:27, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This has been sitting near the top of Approved for over a week. What else do I have to do to get this promoted? (For the record, I believe "unfortunately" --> "unfortunate" is covered by MOS:SIC.)--Laun chba ller 02:04, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not entirely sure that Holland in particular meets the independent notability standards of WP:CRIMINAL. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:03, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

She's a lot more borderline than Plummer, I'll admit that. From memory, there's significant coverage of her role in Politico at least and this Prospect piece was what clinched it for me, but I will of course take another look later.--Laun chba ller 16:30, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Since we are dealing with a BLP, I think we should veer on the side of safety as described in WP:CRIMINAL. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've had another look and I believe Holland meets WP:CRIMINAL#unusual crime.--Laun chba ller 00:16, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll wait for another promoter's opinion. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:44, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@AirshipJungleman29: This nomination is over two months old. I still believe Holland meets WP:CRIMINAL, but is it worth posting at WT:DYK (though arguably this'll get another review when it's queued anyway)?--Laun chba ller 14:30, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, why not? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 20:12, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Posted there.--Laun chba ller 03:00, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have started an AfD. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:29, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination must go on hold until the AfD finishes. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:38, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The AfD for Anna Holland has closed as a redirect. Flibirigit (talk) 01:26, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have struck ALT2 and proposed ALT2a below: Flibirigit (talk) 01:29, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

- ALT2a: ... that when Phoebe Plummer faced trial over the Just Stop Oil Sunflowers protest, she was "unfortunate" to draw Christopher Hehir as judge? Source: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/30/just-stop-oil-soup-throwing-protests-moral-toddlerhood/
Restoring this tick for the three surviving articles. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 02:10, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

POV

@Folkezoft: You added a {{POV}} tag to this article. I believe this to be a fair reflection of the sources, but perhaps you've seen something I haven't? This is at DYK anyway so doubtless the reviewer will pick up on it.--Laun chba ller 09:35, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Article reassessment

@Launchballer: I noticed you removed the class assessment while posting your previous comment. I see no reason to change my previous assessment of this article as being Start class at the moment, if that is what you intended to happen. If there was another reason for your edit, then please explain the need to remove the assessment rating. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 16:46, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was surprised to see it assessed as that as similarly-sized articles of mine tend to be assessed as Cs and Bs. What is this missing?--Laun chba ller 16:53, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article primarily deals with the subject's criminal convictions for their activist behaviour. While the article covers their education, it doesn't explain what a "Mander Portman Woodward" is and suggests they have only attended school for 3 years. The article also doesn't really explain how they became involved in the "Just Stop Oil" protests nor how their activism evolved over time. The article goes from them reading a paper about climate change to being arrested for protesting as if it was some sort of religious conversion or miracle, without providing any analysis of how they joined any activist organisations. While the change in mindset might have been quick, I don't think it was as sudden as the article portrays. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 17:20, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Per The Telegraph, Mander Portman Woodward is a college in Kensington. I've added this to the article. I haven't found exactly when they started doing what or how exactly Plummer became involved with Just Stop Oil (although Politico implies that they found the organisation via its activism); might have a rifle through some podcasts.--Laun chba ller 18:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 20 December 2024

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{{subst:trim|1=

Says shes a climate activist. Should be updated to "convicted felon"

Not done: Putting "convicted felon" at the top of the lead would be undue weight. –Skywatcher68 (talk) 21:58, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]