Talk:Old Leonese language

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about "yeísmo"

Asturleonese does not have yeísmo, the /ʎ/ sound exists in Asturleonese and it is distinguished from /ʝ-j/. Asturleonese /ʎ/ comes from latin ll (such as collar from latin collāris), from initial l palatization (eg: llabrar [ʎaˈβɾaɾ] from latin labōrāre) and also from spontaneous (non-etymological) palatization (eg: pallabra, colloráu, parllar). The thing is the latin clusters gl, pl, fl, li that give /ʎ/ in Galician-Portuguese give /ʝ/ in Asturleonese (except Mirandese and Sayaguese) thus getting "muyer" from "mulier" (gl: muller), but this is not yeísmo, the /ʎ/ sound still exists, just that it doesn't come from the same places as Galician. Fueyo221 (talk) 12:49, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A quotation from the Zampaulo ref should clarify things. @That Northern Irish Historian: could you help us? --Jotamar (talk) 22:18, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The "yeismo" actually did indeed affect /lj/, but several scholars still propose this was yeismo.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=AJGqDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA59#v=onepage&q&f=false

also, in one of these videos, the leonese do have yeismo. That Northern Irish Historian (talk) 22:30, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For anyone familiar with Spanish dialects, yeismo implies total absence of the [ʎ] sound, so if that is not what is meant, the word should be taken out of this page. About the videos, nowadays virtually everyone who speaks Spanish in Spain is a yeista, and since Leonese is being replaced by Spanish, it's not surprising that the remaining Leonese speakers have become yeistas too. --Jotamar (talk) 23:17, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It wouldn't be strange that because of the heavy Castilian influence in León, many leonese speakers became yeístas, but in Asturias, for example where I'm from, most people are not yeísta and do pronounce and distinguish /ʎ/ (this except the younger population in big cities but they'd never speak Asturian anyway) Fueyo221 (talk) 10:57, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Furthermore, there are asturleonese that have yeísmo, Cabrales and areas of the Montaña Central (Ayer, Oseya de Sayambre...) mainly, and this is noted in the DGLA for example: llorar (in variants there's the yeísmo variant yorar documented only in Cabrales and Ayer) Fueyo221 (talk) 11:01, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Now, changing the wording is not easy. On the one hand, the current text is misleading, but on the other hand it is referenced. Suggestions? --Jotamar (talk) 20:59, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

With no suggestions so far, I've changed the wording in a way that I find more balanced. --Jotamar (talk) 22:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]