Talk:Olaf Guthfrithson (disambiguation)

Possible article names changes

Per Talk:Rögnvaldr Óláfsson (fl. 1164) there have been discussions aimed at attempting to amend the names of various kings with Manx associations. The general view there seems to be that the language of the name has to be taken on a case by case basis but that the use of Roman numerals should be deprecated as they are not used by (most/all?) modern historians.

We currently have:

• Amlaíb mac Gofraid (died 941), King of Dublin and York - now a redirect to Olaf III Guthfrithson
• Olaf I Godredsson (c. 1080–1153), or Olaf Morsel, King of Mann, son of Godred Crovan
• Olaf the Black (1174–1237), or Olaf Godredsson, son of Godred V of the Isle of Man

There are various options. The simplest may be:

• move Olaf III Guthfrithson to Amlaíb mac Gofraid. It is not clear to me why the disambiguation 'died 941' was in this article title. An alternative is Olaf Guthfriths(s)on.
• Olaf I Godredsson to Olafr Godredsson or similar (with our without diacritics)
• keep Olaf the Black.

I will drop a note on the pages affected. Ben MacDui 07:58, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

I have done a trawl to see how Olaf III Guthfrithson is named in sources currently available to me:

• Olaf III Guthfrithson. Smyth Warlords and Holymen
• Olaf Guthfrithsson. Charles-Edwards Wales and the British and Foot Æthelstan.
• Olafr Gothfrithson. Biographical Dictionary of Dark Age Britain.
• Olaf Guthfrithson. Stenton, Anglo-Saxon England, Blair, An Introduction to Anglo-Saxon England, Higham, Kingdom of Northumbria, Rollason, Northumbria 500-1100.
• Óláf Guthfrithson. Online DNB
• Amlaib. Woolf, Pictland to Alba
• Anlaf Guthfrithson. Livingston ed, Brunanburh

I would therefore suggest Olaf Guthfrithson, as it is used in four books and is much the most popular, with the current disambig page re-named Olaf Guthfrithson (disambiguation). Dudley Miles (talk) 19:09, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Many thanks for this input.

• Benjamin Hudson in the ODNB has Óláf Guthfrithson [Óláfr Guðrøðarson]
• Downham's Viking Kings... has Amlaíb mac Gofrith

which still leaves Olaf Guthfrithson in pole position. Ben MacDui 20:09, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

A few more:

• Olaf Godfreyson - Benjamin Hudson's Viking Pirates (2005).
• Oláfr Gotfrithason - Patrick Wallace's The Archaeology of Ireland's viking-age towns, in Dáibhí Ó Cróinín's A New History of Ireland (2008).
• Olaf Guthfrithsson - Forte, Oram, and Pederssen's Viking Empires (2005). This book calls Olaf the White Olaf Guthfrithsson too, so maybe we could add him to the dab page too.
• Óláfr Guthfrithsson - Alex Woolf's Scotland, in Pauline Stafford's A Companion to the Early Middle Ages, Britain and Ireland c500-1100 (2009).
• Óláf Guthfrithson - William Aird's Northumbria, in Pauline Stafford's A Companion to the Early Middle Ages, Britain and Ireland c500-1100 (2009).--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 01:12, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Interesting that Woolf has changed his mind about calling him Amlaib since Pictland to Alba. Guthfrithsson seems nearly as common as Guthfrithson, but I think the latter is marginally more popular. Dudley Miles (talk) 09:18, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

• Óláfr Gothfrithsson - Smyth's Scandinavian York and Dublin Dudley Miles (talk) 19:20, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

A few more.

• Ámlaíb - Woolf's Anglo-Scottish relations: i. 900-1100 in in Michael Lynch's The Oxford Companion to Scottish History (2001). I don't think I've seen the accent on the first letter in this name before, which makes me wonder if that's an error of some sort. Woolf gives the name a couple times in the text though, so it seems to be intentional.
• Amlaíb - Ó Cróinín's Ireland, Wales, Man, and the Hebrides in Peter Sawyer's The Oxford Illustrated History of the Vikings (2001).
• Amlaíb mac Gofraid - Woolf's Constantine II in Michael Lynch's The Oxford Companion to Scottish History (2001).
• Olaf - Ó Cróinín's Ireland Scotland and Wales in the early eleventh century in Rosamond McKitterick's The New Cambridge Medieval History, volume ii c.700-900 (2006).
• Olaf Guthfrithson - D.M. Hadley's The Nortern Danelaw: It's Social Structure. c.800-1100 (2000).
• Olaf Guthfrithsson - Simon Keynes' England, c.900-1016 in Timothy Reuter's The New Cambridge Medieval History, volume iii c.900-1024 (2006).
• Olaf Guthfrithsson - Keynes' The Vikings in England c.790-1016 in Peter Sawyer's The Oxford Illustrated History of the Vikings (2001).--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 22:43, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Summary so far

1. Well it looks to me that Olaf III Guthfrithson should be either Olaf Guthfrithson or Olaf Guthfrithsson with the latter slightly the favourite. Moving on (and I am concerned that Brianann MacAmhlaidh may suffer a mischief moving more books up from the library in the cellar if we don't):
2. I see no objection to Olaf the Black remaining in situ
3. or to Olaf I Godredsson moving to Olafr Godredsson
4. and we have a proposal to have this page to re-named Olaf Guthfrithson (disambiguation) - which I am happy to support. Ben MacDui 20:39, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

I am just envious at Brianann's library. Olaf is obviously easily the favourite for the first name. For the second I make it: 8 Guthfrithson - Smyth, Stenton, Blair, Higham, Rollason, ODNB, Aird, Hadley. 6 Guthfrisson - Charles-Edwards, Foot, Keynes (twice), Forte, Woolf. However, either seems to me fine. Dudley Miles (talk) 22:34, 21 August 2013 (UTC)