Talk:No. 37 Squadron RAF

Images to accompany article

No.37 Squadron Wellington in Egypt

A Wellington of No.37 Squadron, 1942

This is fair warning that I intend to improve the choice of images for this article. This may include removing/replacing the existing images. What follows is my reasoning, and an invitation to discuss the matter.

• "No.37 Squadron Wellington in Egypt"

This is an image focussed entirely on a particular piece of nose art, and a pilot who isn't identified (i.e. not notable). We are told it is a Wellington in Egypt, but it could just as easily be a Sunderland flying boat in the middle of the Bristol Channel. I do not believe it enhances the article.

• "A Wellington of No.37 Squadron, 1942"

The image is not great, but considering the date and the circumstances, allowances could be made (unless there is something better available). Where it really fails is that there is no detail displaying the 37 squadron connection e.g. visible squadron codes. It is anonymous and could belong to any unit. It also fails because the caption gives a date, but no location. I'm guessing it isn't Moreton-in-the Marsh, or Lower Sodbury. With the bombs casually strewn around in the foreground, it adds atmosphere, but is that enough? Not for me.

Now let's move on to what isn't there. Where are the first world war types? Perhaps also an image of L48, the Zeppelin that they shot down in 1917. And then there are the post-WWII types, the Lancaster and Shackleton.

Comments welcome. Failing that, I will try and revisit in a few days and make some improvements.

WendlingCrusader (talk) 12:41, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

The images have detailed descriptions on their respective Commons pages - first is "The nose insignia on Vickers Wellington Mark IC, T2508 'LF-O', of No. 37 Squadron RAF at an Advanced Landing Ground in Egypt. Each emblem represents a member of the crew under the devices of the aircraft's captain, Flying Officer P C "Cheese" Lemon."; second is "Middle east, 1942. 37 squadron RAF Wellington, "W" for William, aircraft preparing for operation."

The article is also large enough for a WW1 photo and a post-war photo if there are any appropriate ones, so I don't see why these two images have to be removed. Alin2808 (talk) 15:48, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Thankyou, I was already aware of the full descriptions at Commons; unfortunately that extra detail is not included in this article, making those images inadequate. I would also ask if Flying Officer P C "Cheese" Lemon is notable; if not, that is detail that can and should be omitted. Likewise, is the nose art particularly notable? If not, there is nothing left to justify that image.

How about these images instead? The first shows three Wellingtons, in flight (worth a bonus point), in close formation (another bonus point), with the squadron code 'LF' clearly visible (lots of bonus points). I suggest the following caption; "Three Vickers Wellington Mark ICs of No. 37 Squadron RAF based at Shallufa, Egypt, flying in formation, 1940-43"

The second image shows the business end of a Wellington bomber, with service crew crawling all over it, giving us a sense of scale. Another bonus is it shows the open-air servicing that took place due to the very limited facilities available at bases like Shallufah. Note also the clothing worn by the groundcrew (pith helmet and shorts) confirming the (very) warm location. I suggest the following caption; "Groundcrew servicing a Vickers Wellington Mark IC at Shallufa, Egypt, 1940-43"

Footnote; as it happens, F/O Peter Coplestone "Cheese" Lemon was a distinguished pilot, surviving the Battle of Heligoland Bight (which is barely mentioned in the article), receiving the DSO and DFC, surviving a spell in Stalag Luft III, and ending up as a Wing Commander after the war. But until some eejit somehow dredges all this up, he's just a nobody peering down from his cockpit.

BTW, "Defaecamus Luces Purpuras" does NOT mean "turn out the purple lights", although it comes to the same thing.

You're welcome!

WendlingCrusader (talk) 18:53, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Those are indeed better images. The first one in particular is great because it shows the Wellington bombers of the squadron in flight, I also added the squadron Commons category to it because it was missing. The second image while not showing a squadron bomber, the airfield where it was taken was also used by No. 37. So yes, you can go ahead and replace the images. Alin2808 (talk) 18:02, 10 October 2024 (UTC)