Talk:Natives Representative Council

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 talk 03:05, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that the Natives Representative Council held meetings in school halls?

• Source: "Instead, the first session was postponed for six months from August to December 1937 when it was held in a cramped Pretoria school hall and addressed by the deputy prime minister General Smuts. This set the tone for subsequent sessions that were always held in dingy halls around Pretoria (Rich, 1996)."

• Reviewed:

Created by Iamawesomeautomatic (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.

Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 22:58, 22 May 2024 (UTC).

• Reviewing this, new article and no copyvio according to Earwig. No QPQ needed as this is first nom, the sentence also cited in the article. However I have one suggestion for the prep to maybe truncate it to just "held meetings in school halls" as the other part feels subjective and not stated outright in the source. Otherwise it's good to go for me. Nyanardsan (talk) 12:08, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
  • @Nyanardsan: Thanks. Just updated it. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 16:21, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Natives Representative Council/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Iamawesomeautomatic (talk · contribs) 23:06, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Borsoka (talk · contribs) 04:41, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it well written?

   A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

   B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:

2. Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?

   A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

   B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):

   C. It contains no original research:

   D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

   B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):

4. Is it neutral?

   It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:

5. Is it stable?

   It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:

6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

Comments

• Why "Cape" instead of "Cape Colony" in the first section's first sentence?
  • Corrected. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 02:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
• ...they met certain criteria One or two examples, or adjectives?
  • Added. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 02:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
• ... to Africans... Do you refer to Black Africans? I think the term "African" should be defined in the article's context to avoid midunderstanding ("Black citizens/inhabitants/... of the region, collectivelly called as Africans in the period", or something similar.) Borsoka (talk) 09:21, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
  • Addressed this and every subsequent comment related to this. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 02:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
• ...the Cape Parliament voluntarily extended voting rights to Africans in the Transkei Some context? ("in the newly annexed/conquered/.. Transkei"). Introduce Transkei as a region/state/town/.... Is "voluntarily" necessary? If yes, what does it mean? (Without British demand?)
  • Ended up rewording sentence. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 02:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
• In 1892, the qualifications for voting were made more stringent by Cecil Rhodes. By him alone? How could he make qualifications for voting more stringent?
  • Clarified. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 02:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
• ...they disproportionately affected Africans Why? Do you mean Black Africans?
  • Added an explanation. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 02:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
• ...the African vote... Do you mean Black African?
• ... in electing Leander Starr Jameson... As president or MP? Introduce him to help us to better understand why Black people voted for him.
  • Ended up removing section. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 02:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

    Why? Borsoka (talk) 05:52, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

    The source I used that discusses the alleged controversy of Leander Starr Jameson's election was not apparent in other sources that cover the history of the Cape Qualified Franchise. I decided to go with the consensus from other articles which mainly discuss the 1892 Franchise and Ballot Act being the catalyst of the Cape franchise's demise. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 21:48, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

• ...European voters... European?
  • Ended up removing section. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk)
• Shortly introduce the South African Native Affairs Commission.
  • Ended up removing section. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 02:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
• I think the term "Cape Franchise" should be named in the first sentence which introduces it without mentioning it.
  • Added. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 02:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
• ...disenfranchisement of Africans... Africans of any race/skin colour?
• Upon the establishment of the Union of South Africa in 1910, nationwide extension of the multi-racial franchise was not implemented, leaving most Africans, excluding the small number of eligible voters in the Cape Province, disenfranchised. I would follow chronology and place this before the previous sentence. Most Africans of any race/skin colour?
  • Ended up removing the preceding sentence, so I think it should be fine now. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 02:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
• ...disregarded African political organizations... African of any race/skin colour?
• ... the treatment of Africans... Africans of any race/skin colour?
• ...lack of African representation... African of any race/skin colour?
• ...inadequate African representation... African of any race/skin colour?
• Delink Transkei when it is mentioned for the second time.
  • Done. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 02:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
• I would write "Natives Representative Council (NRC)" when the NRC is first mentioned in the main text.
  • Done. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 02:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
• ...where Africans from all regions... Africans of any race/skin colour?
• ... rural Africans...urban Africans ... Africans of any race/skin colour?
• ...solely of African members... African of any race/skin colour?
• Why "white officials" instead of "White officials", "white domination" instead of "White domination", "all-white" instead of "all-White", "white civilization" instead of "White civilization", "white candidates" instead of "White candidates", "white representatives" instead of "White representatives"?
  • I don't capitalize any race unless it's part of a proper noun. I would capitalize White South African/African/European...etc.
• ... in the policy of segregation... I would write "ratial/ethnic segregation".
  • Done. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 02:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
• Delink Cape Franchise when it mentioned for the second, third, etc time.
  • Done. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 02:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
• Delink and shorten African National Congress when it is mentioned for the second time.
  • Done. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 02:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
• ...Africans seemed to be satisfied... Africans of any race/skin colour?
• ...nationwide African council... African of any race/skin colour?
• ...among Africans... Africans of any race/skin colour?
• Delink Hertzog when he is mentioned for the second, third, etc times.
  • Done. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 02:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
• ...the opinion of African citizens... African of any race/skin colour?
• ..an African council... African of any race/skin colour?
• ...the African intelligentsia... African of any race/skin colour of any race/skin colour?
• ...African organization...
• ...African councilors...
• ...African males..
• Delink House of Assembly when it is mentioned for the second time. Borsoka (talk) 05:22, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
  • Done. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 02:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
• ... African electorate...

@Iamawesomeautomatic: when do you think you can address the above issues? Borsoka (talk) 04:51, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

@Borsoka: Hello. Thank you for reviewing this. I've been a bit busy as you could tell. I should have everything by next Sunday (22nd). Thanks. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 04:54, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

@Borsoka: I have added all of your suggested revisions. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 02:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

• Dublinks abound in the article (each term should only be linked once, with one exception: the same terms can/have to be linked both in the lead and the main text).
• A lot of cotidian terms were linked in the article. If you instisted on linking them, more specific wikilinks should be added (for instance "secondary education in South Africa", or something similar instead of "secondary education")
• Introduce Pretoria as the Union's administrative capital.
  • Done. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 03:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
• Delink legislation and amendments.
  • Done. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 03:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
• ... the end of the war... Name World War II.
  • Done. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 03:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
• ...which they see as contrary... Why not simple past?
  • Changed. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 03:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
• Delink mineworker and strike. Do we have a link to this specific strike?
  • Done. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 03:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
• Decide whether council and parliament are capitalised or not.
  • Capitalized both of them. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 03:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
• They had expected that the end of the war would bring some relief to the restrictions placed on the African population... Why?
  • Clarified. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 03:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

    ..., especially in light of the Atlantic Charter declaration Of what? Be more specific.

• Following the councilors' meeting with the South African government... Did they attend a government meeting or met with all ministers, or ...?
  • Changed to Hofmeyr. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 03:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
• ...the South African government... Delete the adjective.
  • Removed most of them. I thought one instance should stay.
• Equality or equal opportunity (as the link suggests)?
  • Linking "equality" brings up a disambiguation page, so I did equal opportunity as the next best thing. Looking at it again, I'll change the link to "political egalitarianism" because that may be better. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 03:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
• ...to exclude candidates who had been issued orders... I am not sure that I understand.
  • Clarified. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 03:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

    For me the pronoun "who" is ambiguous they were not the subjects but objects of the orders.

• ...voting was conducted through a chief... I would say "tribal/local chief/leader" or "chieftain".
  • Done. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 03:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
• ...others were nominated against their will... Some context?
  • There's not much context to be found. I'd be willing to delete the entire paragraph if it's too confusing. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 03:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
• ...the party secretary... Was he the leader of the party? If yes, make it clear. Perhaps a link to General Secretary of the Communist Party?
  • Added. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 03:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
• ...on other sections of the population... Sections?
  • Changed to "parts", if that's any better. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 03:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
• Efforts to abolish the tax were defeated in 1939. By whom? Borsoka (talk) 08:09, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
  • Clarified. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 03:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

Image review

• File:City Hall, Pretoria., KITLV 1405127.tiff: I am not sure it is properly licenced at Commons.
  • Changed the CC license to CC-0 to reflect the website's description. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 03:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
• File:Cecil Rhodes ww.jpg: US PD tag is missing at Commons; introduce him in the caption, or consider deleting this picture
  • Added. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 03:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
• File:Sol Plaatje 002.jpg: In the caption, delete the words "Photograph of", but introduce him
  • Added. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 03:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
• File:1935VoterNumbers.png: the caption does not explain what we see
  • Updated. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 03:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
• File:Z.K. Matthews Cropped.png: the half man on the cropped image is quite bizarre; could you add a better picture?; I would introduce him in the caption
  • This is the best picture we can get of him. At least compared to the other photo of Z.K. Matthews on Wikipedia. I updated the caption though.
• In section "Later years and abolition", I would delete one of the two pictures to avoid sandwiching.
  • Removed Verwoerd's photo. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 03:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
• Could you add a picture to section "Elections"?
  • Added a photo of A.B. Xuma. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 03:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
• Could you add a picture to section "Issues"? Borsoka (talk) 08:22, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
  • Added a photo of Deputy Prime Minister Jan Hofmeyr. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 03:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

Source review

• Either add or delete the location for each book title listed.
  • Deleted. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 03:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
• Matthews (1981): ISBN is missing
  • Done. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 03:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
• Ngubane (1946): could a link or identifier added?
  • Added a PDF of the book. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 03:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
• Why are the last three newspaper articles deemed a reliable source? I would regard them primary sources. Could you name their author and/or the editor of the newspaper? Borsoka (talk) 08:35, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
  • According to WP:RSPSS, The Guardian and The Daily Telegraph are considered reliable sources. As for them being primary sources, WP:PRIMARY states that reliable primary sources are allowed. But to answer your question: William Percival Crozier was the editor of The Guardian and Arthur Watson was the editor of The Daily Telegraph. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 03:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

    I would name them as editors in section "Sources". Borsoka (talk) 04:48, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

• References 4, 6, 10, 21, 39, 46 are OK.
• The use of pictures or symbols was a novel and untested method of voting at that time. Rephrase to avoid copyvio.
• In practice, although the vote was by a show of hands, the results were recorded and placed in a sealed envelope for submission to the relevant authorities, ensuring that the vote was as confidential as possible. Rephrase to avoid copyvio.
• Please double check each sentence to avoid close paraphrasing and copyvio. Ping we when you are ready. Borsoka (talk) 05:24, 4 January 2025 (UTC)