Talk:Nagler-Rolz NR 54

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National origin

The original link was to Austria, a landlocked country in Central Europe, but this was recently changed to Germany which is normally a different country in Central Europe. Unfortunately this change has not helped the situation.

I believe the argument is that Austria did not exist in 1940 when this helicopter was designed (by two Austrians). FWIW I believe it was built somewhere near Vienna, aka Wien. Following the Anschluss in 1938, Austria ceased to exist as an independent political entity, becoming part of the Deutsches Reich (German Empire). By that measure, 'Germany' didn't exist either.

An attempt was made to 'set the record straight', but in linking to Germany, we have shifted the definition back to a simple land-mass; one whose borders have shifted regularly over time. As with Austria, at different points in its history the various political concepts in Germany are identified by separate articles, such as West Germany (1949-1990) which thoroughly deserves a separate mention. Hence a more correct attribution here is Nazi Germany (1933-45). Regrettably, the Wikipedia article that covers this period has opted for the common British term Nazi Germany which implies a single recognisable country, instead of the concept of a wider reich, or 'empire'. Hence 'Nazi Germany' without qualification gives a misleading impression, and my first thought was to add (Austria) in brackets. But if we are going to do that, then it should be Ostmark (Austria).

Alternatively we can go back to the idea that this helicopter was designed by Austrians, in a country we recognise today as Austria, albeit at a time when the political landscape was different. How would we treat the works of 'Austrian' composer Alois Melichar, whose portfolio probably includes some music created in this same time-frame. Would his Third Symphony be Austrian, whilst his Fourth Symphony be identified as German, or maybe Nazi? I would find that strange.

@The Bushranger - if RS (plural) state the origin is 'German', then we have a problem.

WendlingCrusader (talk) 20:14, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The German wiki article states its nationality as 'Deutsches Reich' which converts to the English article Nazi Germany. The sources used in the German article are Die deutsche Luftrüstung 1933-1945 (German air armament 1933-1945) and Deutsche Flugzeuge bis 1945 (German aircraft to 1945). Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by) 20:29, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also multiple reliable sources state that the helicopter was German, no matter what WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS.

Heinz Nowarra, Die Deutsche Luftrüstung 1933 1945 [1]

Smithsonian, The Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum directory of airplanes [2]

Eiichiro Sekigawa, German Military Aircraft in the Second World War [3]

- The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:39, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]