Talk:Murder of Gurgen Margaryan

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This article was nominated for deletion on 2 September 2012 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep.

This article was nominated for merging with Ramil Safarov on 18 September 2012. The result of the discussion was No consensus.

On 27 September 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved from Murder of Gurgen Margaryan to Murder of Gurgen Margaryan. The result of the discussion was moved.

Untitled

I added a section about the Azeri response to the murder of Markaryan. I felt that it was important to note that Safarov's actions do not appear to be widely condemned by the Azerbaijani government, but are rather promoted as an example to follow. If there are any significant opinions in Azerbaijan to the contrary, please add them to this section. Augustgrahl—Preceding undated comment added at 17:33, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Baku87 what do you call the IWPR? VartanM (talk) 06:44, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment

Seems like political motivations why there is an issue this should be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.109.96.114 (talk) 10:57, 2 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

marked for deletion - why?

I find it very strange that this page was marked for deletion now, shortly after the scandal broke out. It is here for 6 years already. Kozka (talk) 15:25, 4 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

All in favor of keeping this this article?

Aye! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Khimaris (talk • contribs) 18:08, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

just little turkish low freedom index paid propaganda things 24.24.213.180 (talk) 03:04, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

budapest.info

Can someone tell me what's wrong with budapest.info? It is the only website available that gives near complete coverage of the murder. So what if it is Armenian, you can't discriminate against sources based on their origin. If you have any other concerns about it, I'm open to hearing you. George Spurlin (talk) 08:46, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Do not slander! My comment here. You know it. You can not forgotten that. --Esc2003 (talk) 09:13, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This is also spoken by other users.(sumgait.info in Ramil Safarov and related articles) --Esc2003 (talk) 09:20, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Who and when did I slander? Do you have another website that gives this much information about the subject? George Spurlin (talk) 09:46, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You says: the only reason that was given was because it was Armenian If no verifiable information in this website, more much information, who cares? --Esc2003 (talk) 10:01, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Since day one you have been attacking the site because it was Armenian, that's not slander, that's stating the facts. If you can't provide alternatives, why are you attacking the only available one? George Spurlin (talk) 11:00, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

My justification is obvious. Armenian or Azerbaijani does not matter to me. You can not close that subject to citing the excuse of discrimination or racism. I'm sorry, but attacker person is only you. Everyone understand my rationale (although my bad English). --Esc2003 (talk) 11:51, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

But you have numerous times pointed out that it was pro-Armenian. Please, if you can state what is wrong with the site, so we can discuss it. I'm sorry if you feel that I attacked you, I have no interest of attacking anyone. George Spurlin (talk) 14:28, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

* -Esc2003 (talk) 09:13, 4 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was no consensus. Last comment made over half a year ago, so time to close. Iselilja (talk) 07:39, 21 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Pardon

hongari pls — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.104.0.221 (talk) 20:21, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Merger

Currently both articles Gurgen Margaryan and Ramil Safarov are essentially about the murder case and related developments, such as international reactions. This leads to a duplication of effort. It is also contrary to WP:1E, which says: "When an individual is significant for his or her role in a single event, it may be unclear whether an article should be written about the individual, the event or both. ... The general rule in many cases is to cover the event, not the person." For these reasons, I propose merging both articles into a single one about the murder case,Murder of Gurgen Margaryan. That article would have subsections for the biographies of both men. Sandstein 08:53, 18 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - The suggestion to move Ramil Safarov article to the proposed Murder of Gurgen Margaryan article has already been discussed and such move was rejected just 7 days ago. The suggestion to delete Gurgen Margaryan article has also been discussed and the desion to keep it was made only 9 days ago. --Daniel (talk) 09:09, 18 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose I would support the merger before the extradition, but since then both articles passed the WP:1E threshold. George Spurlin (talk) 10:12, 18 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - Ramil Safarov is known for at least two events: the murder he committed in 2004 and his controversial extradition and pardon in 2012. The second event received probably even more publicity in the world than the first one. So it's clearly not the case of a single event (WP:1E). --Daniel (talk) 10:39, 18 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Merge Both articles copy each other describing the same event (murder, trial, further developments and reactions etc), citing the same sources along with very little biographic content Angel670 talk 19:17, 20 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Article Ramil Safarov is mostly (or significantly) not about murder, but about his extradition. If we had a separate article, "Extradition of Ramil Safarov", this merging might be reasonable, but we do not. My very best wishes (talk) 01:58, 30 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Merge - they are participants of the same event and they are popular because of the same issue. There is no reason for having separate article about Gurgen Margaryan, because there is no encyclopedic significance of this person outside of the murder event. Best, Konullu (talk) 21:57, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Requested move 27 September 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Consensus exists that almost all coverage about Margaryan is about his murder, not about he himself. A merge with the Safarov article can be discussed separately. (non-admin closure) Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 01:26, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Gurgen Margaryan → Murder of Gurgen Margaryan – The guy is only notable for being murdered, so WP:BIO1E/WP:VICTIM applies. There is also a lot of content in the Ramil Safarov article that belongs in the event article. (t · c) buidhe 11:09, 27 September 2021 (UTC) — Relisting. — Amakuru (talk) 15:16, 5 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support per WP:BIO1E. Additionally, the article's current form is almost entirely about the murder and its aftermath, making it all the more suitable to move to the title of the event. ModernDayTrilobite (talk) 14:03, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose due to the unique nature of this case. Both the murderer and his victim have separate entries that discuss aspects of the event from different angles. Thus, there should be no mergers and the main title header of the Gurgen Margaryan entry as well as the main title header of the Ramil Safarov entry should remain unchanged. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 15:59, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Wouldn't it make more sense to create a single article that synthesizes both angles on the event, then? Both Margaryan and Safarov appear to be notable only for this incident, so WP:CRIME and WP:EVENT would both suggest that a single, event-focused article would be the most appropriate way to handle this case. ModernDayTrilobite (talk) 18:21, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly what I was thinking, according to WP:VICTIM a crime victim should only have a stand alone article if there is historical significance, "indicated by persistent coverage of the event in reliable secondary sources that devote significant attention to the individual's role." For example, there are many sources covering George Floyd's life prior and during the incidents that lead to his death, sufficiently to justify a separate article. But none of the sources I've examined about this murder focus on Margaryan's role, all he did was be the wrong nationality at the wrong place/time. (t · c) buidhe 01:05, 28 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It should be noted that the majority of detail regarding the murder and its aftermath is in the Ramil Safarov article which has 63,500 bytes and 102 inline cites. The Gurgen Margaryan article, on the other hand, has 15,379 bytes and 20 inline cites, seven of which are also in the Ramil Safarov article, while the remaining 13, which are specific to Margaryan's life and family, are not among the cites listed at Safarov.

Also, the three entries under Margaryan's "External links" — 1) Media related to Gurgen Margaryan at Wikimedia Commons 2) Budapest Case - on the murder of Lt. Gurgen Margaryan: Safarov's testimony, eye-witness accounts, Armenian and Azerbaijani Responses and 3) ArmeniaNow.com Murder of officer at NATO peace program provokes outrage — are not listed under Safarov, which has different "External links".

Thus, it would seem more intuitive to propose Ramil Safarov → Murder of Gurgen Margaryan and then merge the biographical details as well the 13 inline cites and the three "External links" unique to Margaryan into the newly-renamed Murder of Gurgen Margaryan article, in the event there is consensus for the Ramil Safarov → Murder of Gurgen Margaryan renaming. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 15:42, 29 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. Unfortunately, yes, Gurgen is only notable for his horrible death. And I trust Buidhe's suggestion, she's one of the most prolific editors in AA area and far beyond, especially in genocides/massacres articles. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 15:30, 28 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.