Talk:Mass shooting

Removal of perpetrators section

@Love of Corey: There was no edit summary given for this: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mass_shooting&curid=31883778&diff=1041527226&oldid=1039773372 Any particular reason for the removal? - Scarpy (talk) 05:49, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

@Scarpy: I guess it is because Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, and the perpetrators section is only meant to give the characteristics of mass shooters, rather than giving a list (List of rampage killers already does the job of giving a list of mass shooters pretty well). And unnecessary mentions of the names of mass shooters can cause contagion.--RekishiEJ (talk) 17:30, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

This sentence appears to contradict itself to a casual reader

"The Investigative Assistance for Violent Crimes Act of 2012 defines mass killings as three or more killings in a single incident, however the Investigative Assistance for Violent Crimes Act of 2012 does not define mass shootings"

It took me three readings ... and for the third reading I copied the entire sentence into a text editor, placing the second half of the sentence directly below the first half before I noticed there is in fact no contradiction.

The difference is "killings" vs. "shootings".

It is a long sentence, and there are twenty-three words between "killings" and "shootings". By the time I got to the end of the sentence the subtlety was lost on me. -bobB (talk) 00:31, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Agreed, whoever wrote that seems to think the reader should understand why "shooting" needs to be specified, but since anyone killed in a shooting is also a killing, everything after the comma seems vague and unnecessary. I think it can be dropped. 24.251.236.40 (talk) 21:10, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

I removed it, however if the point was just to clarify that it's not specifically about shootings (the article's scope) then I would suggest changing it to something like "The IAVCA does not specifically define mass shootings, but defines mass killings as...". 24.251.236.40 (talk) 21:17, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: English 102

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 9 January 2023 and 5 May 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): 6ftblexican (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by 6ftblexican (talk) 18:51, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Lead image

@Tobiasi0: I noticed you changed the lead image of the article. While I do not intend on reverting this decision, I would merely like to ask your reasoning for this decision considering that the previous image seemed more representative of the concept of mass shooting as it was direct camera footage of a mass shooting (not a graphic picture). ―Howard • 🌽³³ 17:01, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

My main intention is to obtain an image which isn't that fuzzy and has fewer artifacts, because security footage usually looks like garbage. I wouldn't mind changing it to another picture, even if it is graphic (that shouldn't matter in an encyclopedic article imho). However, I haven't found something appropriate and still representative. I think the previous image was somewhat representative, but in the end it was just a blurry guy holding a firearm – even if he committed a mass shooting at that very moment, there was nothing that directly indicated the concept of a "mass shooting" – it could've symbolized gun laws or a specific gun manufacturer as well. Meanwhile I considered something like a training picture as it seems more direct while still meeting basic quality criteria. Other possibilities include images of police barriers or other active shooter guidance.The current image is the result of my search for something that indicates a dangerous situation that can cost several lifes like in a mass shooting. I would appreciate your input to this. –Tobias (talk) 19:48, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Per MOS:OMIMG: "a potentially offensive image—one that would be considered vulgar, horrifying, or obscene by typical Wikipedia readers—should be included only if it is treated in an encyclopedic manner, i.e. only if its omission would cause the article to be less informative, relevant, or accurate, and no equally suitable alternative is available." I take this to mean that we should ideally use an image of a mass shooting that doesn't feature gore. A possible exception to this might be images which show corpses, but not blood or wounds.

While the fuzziness of the image would obviously disqualify it from becoming a featured picture, I believe that it should not matter if the general subject of the image can be understood from a glance. Indeed, mass shooting incidents are usually recorded in security footage, so I wouldn't be surprised if people automatically register such a picture as a mass shooting. For this reason, I believe security camera footage of an active shooter is the most acceptable depiction.

If the low quality of the image is not something you can compromise on, then I would be satisfied with a drill of an active shooter situation:

―Howard • 🌽³³ 20:24, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

I would prefer something from an actual incident rather than a dramatization or training exercise. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 07:01, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Violence by groups, shootouts, and related categories, templates and lists

This opening paragraph of the article says that the term mass shooting is "generally characterized by the targeting (often indiscriminate) of victims a non-combat setting, and thus the term generally excludes gang violence, shootouts and warfare". The article on Mass shootings in the United States says something very similar in its lead section. I confirm that was also my prior impression of what is ordinarily called a "mass shooting". I therefore suggest that at all or nearly all incidents of gang violence, shootouts with (or between) police or military forces, killings by groups of police officers, anti-union violence, union violence, mob lynchings, violence by clans and tribes, politically motivated violence conducted by groups of people, etc., are not what would ordinarily be called "mass shootings" and thus should not be put into Wikipedia article categories and templates about mass shootings. In particular, I think many of the incidents that are currently in {{Mass shootings in the United States in the 1980s and before}} do not belong in that template (and that template doesn't belong in such articles). That includes nearly everything listed there before 1940 – specifically the Enoch Brown school massacre (1764), Saint Valentine's Day Massacre (1929), Young Brothers massacre (1932), Kansas City massacre (1933), Chiquola Mill Massacre (1934), and Kelayres massacre (1934). It also includes most articles on incidents prior to 1970, such as Moore's Ford lynchings (1946), 1954 United States Capitol shooting, Orangeburg Massacre (1968), Glenville shootout (1968) and 1969 Greensboro uprising. In the 1970s, Newhall incident (1970), Kent State shootings (1970), Jackson State killings (1970), Marin County Civic Center attacks (1970), 1971 shooting of Dallas police officers, Fountain Valley massacre (1972), 1973 Hanafi Muslim massacre, Golden Dragon massacre (1977), Blackfriars Massacre (1978), Greensboro massacre (1979), and in the 1980s, Norco shootout (1980), Wah Mee massacre (1983), and 1986 FBI Miami shootout. I might also personally exclude Attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan (1981), as that incident presumably had a primary target with incidental casualties, and Lester Bower (1983), whose killings were part of a robbery rather than indiscriminate, and 1984 New York City Subway shooting, since that shooter was acquitted for self-defense. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 05:55, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

This also calls into question some of the topics discussed in this article, such as the 1919 Jallianwala Bagh massacre, 1948 Babrra massacre, 1972 Lod Airport Massacre, 1997 Luxor massacre, 2008 Mumbai attacks, 2014 Chhattisgarh attack, 2014 Peshawar school massacre, 2015 Garissa University College attack, and 2016 Pathankot attack, as these were acts by politically motivated organized groups of people. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:05, 9 January 2025 (UTC)