Talk:Maria of Castile

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Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved to Maria of Castile, Queen of Aragon, a title supported by two of the three editors in the discussion, and not specifically opposed by the third. - GTBacchus^(talk) 19:20, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Maria of Castile → Maria, Princess of Asturias — The article should have an unambigious title instead of a highly ambigious one. The proposed one is also in compliance with WP:NCROY, while the current one may just as much refer to Maria of Castile, Maria of Castile, etc. Surtsicna (talk) 12:13, 31 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose She was only Princess of Asturias for 3 of her 56 year life. Why not Maria of Castile, Queen of Aragon?--Queen Elizabeth II's Little Spy (talk) 23:24, 31 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Maria of Castile, Queen of Aragon is an alternative I would agree with. Surtsicna (talk) 11:13, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose You know what I'm going say: Queen Maria of Aragon. Her entire notability is as a married woman, so use the married name, especially if the maiden name is ambiguous. Kauffner (talk) 01:21, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

But Aragon had four other queens named Maria. Thus, Queen Maria of Aragon would be just as ambigious as Maria of Castile. Surtsicna (talk) 11:13, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I notice only two other queen Marias of Aragon, Maria de Luna and Maria of Navarre. I'm pretty sure Maria of Castile is by far the most notable of this group. After all, she has an entire book about her in English. It happens that more than one person can have the same name and we cannot change that. "Queen Maria of Aragon" isn't being used for anything at the moment, so there is no technical issue. Kauffner (talk) 14:33, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Marie of Montpellier and Marie of Lusignan are Maria of Castile's namesakes as well; they could just as easily be called Maria, and they are by many sources. Besides, even three are enough to make it ambigious. Maria of Castile does have an entire book written about her - and it is titled: "The king's other body: María of Castile and the crown of Aragon". The fact that "Queen Maria of Aragon" isn't being used by anything at the moment doesn't mean that we should move the article to that location. It means there's a reason why it's unused - it's too ambigious. "Maria of Castile" isn't being used by anything at the moment either, save for this article, but it doesn't make the title any less ambigious. Surtsicna (talk) 18:16, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see anyone else calling her princess of Asturias. She certainly gets a significant number of hits as "Maria of Castile", but I'd say that her common name is Queen Maria. The "of Aragon" disambiguator follows a common Wiki format. Aragon had other queens named Maria, and so what? This one is by far the most notable. From looking at the various titles, I suspect the reason "Queen Maria of Aragon" is not being used is because whoever made up these titles thinks every woman should be under her maiden name, which is not policy and not an idea I support. Kauffner (talk) 01:30, 2 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I respect and agree with your opinion that the maiden-name-rule should not always be a rule. However, that doesn't mean that we should always be against using the maiden name. Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't "Maria of Castile" (326) get significantly more hits than "Queen Maria" (273)? Besides, as you yourself noted, the only English-language biography of her refers to her as "Maria of Castile". That being said, I agree with the Little Spy and now feel that "Maria of Castile, Queen of Aragon" would be the best option. I really don't think we should ignore both Wikipedia:Common name and Wikipedia:Disambiguation simply because of your opinion that the maiden-name should not be used. Surtsicna (talk) 18:12, 2 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The numbers I got above are 257 post-1980 results for Aragon Alfonso "Queen Maria" -wikipedia and 137 Aragon Alfonso "Maria of Castile" -wikipedia. (The ratio in favor of "Queen Maria" grows if the you take off the date restriction.) I'm fine with "Maria of Castile" insofar as Earenfight's book of that title is the principle source for this article. I don't see any need for a disambiguator. Naming should be based on real world non-Wiki usage. If you can type the name in a search engine and only one person shows up in the top results, then the ambiguity is not significant. You already know how feel about maiden-married double names. It is quite an unusual style and you certainly don't see it in quality sources. I guess its better than disambiguating with vital dates, but not by much. Kauffner (talk) 01:30, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 4 September 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. There's a 3:1 majority in favour of the move, and it is supported by WP:CONCISE as well as WP:CONSISTENCY with other names such as Eleanor of Aquitaine and Anne of Cleves. — Amakuru (talk) 21:23, 21 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Maria of Castile, Queen of Aragon → Maria of Castile – Maria of Castile redirects here. It should be removed to prevent the title from being longer than necessary. Interstellarity (talk) 21:59, 4 September 2021 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 05:54, 12 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. The term "Maria of Castile" suggests a queen of Castile (like Isabella of Castile or Joanna of Castile), not a queen of Aragon. There are other Marias in Castilian royal genealogy, as well as various consort queens of Castile called Maria (e.g. Maria of Portugal, Queen of Castile). It is a useful disambiguator and fits the common pattern for consorts. Walrasiad (talk) 10:53, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I checked the reference section and the proposed form is what the sources use. 99to99 (talk) 00:22, 13 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 17:11, 13 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.