Talk:Lockheed Martin FB-22

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Lockheed Martin FB-22 has been listed as one of the Warfare good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: October 19, 2024. (Reviewed version).

A fact from Lockheed Martin FB-22 appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 28 November 2024 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the U.S. Air Force considered a bomber version of the F-22 Raptor known as the FB-22?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2024/November. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Lockheed Martin FB-22.

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Citation

A citation of source for the remarks I added will be provided soon. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Klauth (talk • contribs) 18:03, 14 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]

F-117A

Isn't this also a stealth bomber replacement? (Yeah, the F-117A, so called stealth fighter, which only bombs) 70.51.10.109 08:34, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The 2018 interim bomber will compliment the B-2 and other current bombers. The FB-22's range is only like 1/4 of the B-2 and other current heavy bombers. The interim bomber will replace the F-117, I guess. The F-35 will cover some of that too. The F-117 has missiles as well. -Fnlayson 17:17, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The bomb part is largely right. The F-117 mainly carried laser guided bombs. -Fnlayson (talk) 15:37, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And it's also retired now. Spartan198 (talk) 07:39, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Rename article

This article should be renamed to "Lockheed Martin FB-22" to follow WP:Naming conventions (aircraft) guidelines. In other words

FB-22 → Lockheed Martin FB-22

Any reasonable arguments not to rename it? -Fnlayson (talk) 21:09, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think the reason it hasn't been renamed that before is that Boeing is the primary proponent of the variant, and would probably be the lead contractor/manufacturer if it were to be produced. - BilCat (talk) 21:35, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, that's a good one. I have not yet run across anything on Boeing involvement with the FB-22. Other than with the F-22, I've only seen mention of a Boeing-LM partnership for the subsonic New Generation Bomber. -Fnlayson (talk) 23:08, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Has the consensus changed here? Cause the article's been moved. - BilCat (talk) 04:09, 5 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

...this would be an oops on my part, I didn't see this before moving it. >.< - The Bushranger (talk) 04:27, 5 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No problem, BR. I looked in the article,and there's no mention of Boeing in it that I could find anyway. I'll see what I can dig up this week, and we'll go from there. - BilCat (talk) 04:32, 5 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

FB-22 Strike Raptor

I think it should be called “Lockheed Martin FB-22 Strike Raptor. 50.75.39.166 (talk) 21:36, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reliable source(s) are needed to support renaming this article. -Fnlayson (talk) 21:41, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GA nomination

After reworking this article, is the quality sufficient for GA nomination? Steve7c8 (talk) 19:59, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I believe the 6 criteria at WP:GACR are met here. But double check that. Do ask if you help any help. Thanks -Fnlayson (talk) 14:04, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

Passed. Stivushka (talk) 11:38, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Lockheed Martin FB-22/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Steve7c8 (talk · contribs) 05:10, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Stivushka (talk · contribs) 06:53, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Started review

Review

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	Well written article Stivushka (talk) 14:36, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	Stivushka (talk) 14:36, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
2. Verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.	Stivushka (talk) 14:36, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	Well researched article. I did pick up a couple of issues in the final para of the "Design and development" section these are marked awaiting additional/alternative citations.Stivushka (talk) 14:36, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply] Found the information for the first cite request Found a better source for the second cite request Issue closedStivushka (talk) 19:43, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
	2c. it contains no original research.	Stivushka (talk) 14:36, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
	2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.	See 6a Stivushka (talk) 14:36, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.	Stivushka (talk) 14:36, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).	Stivushka (talk) 14:36, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.	Stivushka (talk) 14:36, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.	Stivushka (talk) 14:36, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	Infobox images is taken from a 2005 book published by Midland which on review I do think meets fair usage criteria. Other two images were taken from secretprojects.co.uk but source is not given. Per WP:NFCCP (item 10) the source needs to be provided.Stivushka (talk) 19:03, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.	Image showing the progression of the FB-22's development is poor quality low res, text underneath cannot easily be read. I am guessing this is related to copyright however it does detract from the article.Stivushka (talk) 19:03, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
	7. Overall assessment.	Well researched and written article. Need to find the find the original source for the two images taken from secretprojects.co.uk and credit them. Use a higher res version or replace the image showing development progression. On hold. Once these tasks have been completed will be happy to set as GA.Stivushka (talk) 19:41, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The images are official Lockheed Martin imagery presented at the 2005 Air Force Association Symposium, and can be found in Air Force Magazine publications as well such as in ref. 8. Some of these were in flyer cards, as is the case for ref. 23. These images used in Jay Miller's book on the F-22, published by Midland Publishing in 2005. The only way I can think of crediting them is listing it as Lockheed Martin official imagery distributed during an AFA symposium event. Steve7c8 (talk) 00:19, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Crediting the image to a Lockheed Martin presentation if fine. Using these images, non commercially, should not be an issue, as opposed to a situation where the art work was commissioned by a major publishing house for a book. Since you have now added this to “other information” on each picture the issue is resolved.

Can you do anything about the low res progression chart showing the FB-22 proposals? maybe a slightly higher res version? Stivushka (talk) 05:48, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, that's another official Lockheed Martin diagram, and it's the highest resolution allowed for a non-free fair use image, it was even compressed slightly by a bot from my original upload. It's certainly not ideal, but the text is still readable. Steve7c8 (talk) 07:00, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fair comment. Not much point is putting a higher resolution image if it's going to get squeezed by one of the Wikibots. On balance the article is better with the progression chart than without and its low resolution is not a serious enough issue to warrant failing the article at GA level. Stivushka (talk) 09:51, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

While doing some small readability type edits, I noticed that references 3 and 17 (both Quadrennial Defense Review Reports) are coming up as dead links. Can you find alternative URL for these?Stivushka (talk) 09:55, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Already fixed I found the documents at DTIC website. Stivushka (talk) 10:17, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I’ve been trying to fix dead links too. One of the Aviation Week articles may only be accessible through their internal archive, which is a paid subscription unfortunately. Steve7c8 (talk) 10:46, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I just removed it. It was in the "Further Reading" section not part of the reference material, keeping it as a dead link serves no purpose.

Anyway, that all the issues I identified fixed. Between the two of us we have worked through the minor grammar and readability issues. Article is good to go. Well done. Stivushka (talk) 11:16, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 15:20, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that a bomber version of the F-22 Raptor called the FB-22 was once considered by the U.S. Air Force in the mid-2000s?

Source: https://www.airandspaceforces.com/PDF/MagazineArchive/Documents/2005/January%202005/0105raptor.pdf

Reviewed:

Improved to Good Article status by Steve7c8 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Steve7c8 (talk) 02:31, 21 October 2024 (UTC).[reply]

Article recently passed GAR, is free from copyvio, no QPQ is required. The hook looks good for the main page. I fixed the image formatting within the nomination, but unfortunately this non-free image can't be used per WP:DYKIMG. Is there a free image that can be used in its place? ❯❯❯ Mccunicano ☕️ 18:42, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- I went through the images within the article and noticed that they are also all non-free and that there is no Commons category for this version of the F-22. I don't see a way that the hook can be approved with an image unless we can track down some free images of the variant. ❯❯❯ Mccunicano ☕️ 18:54, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - Correct, there are unfortunately no free images for this design, since it wasn't built, all accurate renditions of it are officially released images by Lockheed Martin to industry publications and Air Force Association symposiums. Can the hook be approved without an image? Steve7c8 (talk) 20:49, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    - Certainly. The hook is approved with the image omitted in line with my previous comment. Excellent work on the article! ❯❯❯ Mccunicano ☕️ 23:53, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      - @Mccunicano Did this nomination get approved? I noticed that it's still listed as pending, which seems to indicate that it's still under review. Steve7c8 (talk) 06:55, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        Yes, see: Template talk:Did you know/Approved#Articles created/expanded on October 19 ❯❯❯ Mccunicano ☕️ 19:22, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]