Talk:List of open-source mobile phones

Comments 2012/2013

How does Replicant fit in here? Should it be included? 216.57.190.239 (talk) 19:13, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

What about the Firefox OS? --Friechtle (talk) 23:25, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Answer: 1. Firefox OS definitely should be added, as well as be returned vandalized Nokia's N900 and others. Possibly HP webOS could be included also, since it seems its code was finally fully opened (this needs recheck). And anything else that holds the criterias can be added. Android doesn't hold the criteria of opennes, because it has closed source kernel with wiretapping components, alas.

2. Considering adding section with big mobile OSS components, like GNOME_Mobile_&_Embedded_Initiative as grand part of these platforms. 82.199.194.33 (talk) 21:32, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Open Source

This list only includes phones that run 100% free software on their main CPUs.

Why is this the criteria for "open source"? Open source is not "free software" and should use the criteria for open source.

I disagree. Open Source is "Free". You do not have to pay for it. The source code is available to download, modify and distribute. GNU is the originator of software that is non-proprietary. Open source spun off of that social movement. GNU's (www.gnu.org) philosphy is that free software should be a human right like free speech. When you pay for software that is Free and Open Source (FOSS) you are NOT paying for the software, you are paying the distributor for their time and products created from the the Open Source Software and NOT for the software itself. The Open Source Software itself is STILL free. Services related to distributing, supporting or improving open source can be for pay. For example if you compile and package the FOSS you may charge for the CDs you created. You cannot charge for the Source Code, therefore the software is STILL Free and Open Source or FOSS.

Linux for example was released under the GNU General Public License and is free or is supposed to be, however, linux distributors are making locating source code more difficult over time.

(http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-for-freedom.html) TheKingRat (talk) 17:53, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

'Free' does not mean cost-free, but restriction-free (which is the relevant sense of the term, here). The two senses of the term are not equivalent, and all four combinations of them are possible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.28.164.71 (talk) 00:46, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

How does the Blackphone fit in here? It looks like it will run both Android & Firefox OS. Scratch that. I was thinking of the GeeksPhone Revolution. It looks like Blackphone will run a modified version of Android with enhancements for privacy. Not sure how open source this will be yet. Gwylipedia (talk) 04:17, 17 January 2014 (UTC) 04:31, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

I see the mention of Android on Freerunner for the GTA02 was removed. Android on Freerunner is free software--Apache 2.0 and GPL license, no binary blobs, no proprietary apps. What is the rationale for removing it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scarhill (talk • contribs) 17:14, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

The page title is too vague: what does "open-source mobile phone" actually mean? That the phone runs Free Software, that it runs only Free Software, or that the phone has an "open source hardware" design (according to some reliable definition)? Or is it that both the software and the hardware uphold their own respective openness/transparency principles? PaulBoddie (talk) 12:31, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

See "Definition of an "open-source mobile phone"" section below. HLHJ (talk) 04:38, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

"Proprietary baseband firmware"

Currently the article contains the sentence:

All mobile phones have proprietary baseband (GSM module) firmware.

The sentence has had a citation since 26 September 2013, but I'm not totally happy with it. First off, it links to osmocomBB wiki — I personally have no issues with wikis being used as references, but I know that some people might. Secondly, according to that very page, it was "Last modified 4 years ago". Four years ago companies like GeeksPhone or Jolla didn't exist, and neither did their respective operating systems (Firefox OS and Sailfish OS) or other competiting free and open source software mobile operating systems. As such, I think that this claim could either use a re-evaluation or a more recent source that would reflect today's situation — even if the situation remains unchanged. --Jack Phoenix _(Contact) 13:43, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Jack Phoenix, found some better citations, added update and more detail, review and mods welcome. Some technical wikis are OK with WP:PRIMARYCARE, I think. HLHJ (talk) 04:37, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

we're talking about hardware itself, not about preinstalled OSs, right?

some android devices have root by default, so should we add them if it's possible to install other OS? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.87.139.121 (talk) 16:19, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

That would be a bit unwieldy. I'd suggest that this scope is for another article. HLHJ (talk) 04:35, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Purism Librem 5

What aboutPurism Librem 5 - why isnt it in the list?

Thanks for the question; it is now on the list. You could have added it yourself, too; just click "edit". HLHJ (talk) 04:33, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Necunos NC_1

The NC_1 claims to be 100% open-source. Even though the company is in its early stages, I believe they just sold out their first batch. Should the Necunos NC_1 be added to this list?

for reference: https://necunos.com/community/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.175.131.55 (talk) 14:34, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Done, 81.175.131.55. HLHJ (talk) 04:34, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Definition of an "open-source mobile phone"

The "Notes" section says that "Android-based devices do not appear on this list because of the heavy use of proprietary components, particularly drivers and applications". While that is true, it also applies to many of the phones included. The Tizen phones need proprietary drivers and have proprietary pre-installed apps. Sailfish has proprietary userland parts and the phones also need proprietary drivers. Firefox OS phones need blobs and so on. If there'll be no objections in few days, I'll remove the devices that aren't unambiguously open source. There probably needs to be a source that says that the specific phone is open source, otherwise it is WP:OR. --ilmaisin (talk) 18:24, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Hi, ilmaisin. Sailfish and Tizen seem to have been removed before I got here. I went with "the phones included on this list contain copyleft software other than the Linux kernel"; this clearly defines the scope, matches the categorization in Mobile operating system, and keeps the scope inductively defined by the article's contents when I came to it (e.g., I don't need to remove phones, or add any but new releases). If this seems good to you, please feel free to remove the template. HLHJ (talk) 04:32, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Spoke too soon... can't even figure out what license some of these are under. Muddled. HLHJ (talk) 05:58, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

If someone can tell me the licenses of all the Maemo descendants, I will colour the diagram by license. HLHJ (talk) 06:17, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Add Fairphone?

I suggest the Fairphone should be added. Despite coming with Android pre-installed, it is designed to be easily changed to another OS, such as Lineage or Fairphone Open. Ben (talk) 19:47, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Ben, sorry, I didn't see this before removi ng the Fairphone as out-of-scope. I think we need a new article for phones which come with proprietary software but upon which you can install other software, as previously mentioned above in Talk:List of open-source mobile phones#we're talking about hardware itself, not about preinstalled OSs, right?. PostmarketOS has literally hundreds of phones that will boot true Linux, though a lot of them won't do much more than that. HLHJ (talk) 20:37, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, HLHJ. Yes, by default the Fairphone ships with Google's proprietary apps. However, it seems wrong to lump it in with the hundreds of phones which users have been able to hack to get Linux running, despite the manufacturer making it difficult. The Fairphone is designed to be open. For the Fairphone 2, the manufacturer, not a third-party, released the fully open source version of the OS. For their latest phone, the Fairphone 4, they have partnered with /e/ to sell completely Open Source versions. Ben (talk) 04:42, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Support adding Fairphone. There is a partnership to sell Fairphones with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//e/_(operating_system) pre-installed, without Google proprietary apps, but with a proprietary maps app. CalyxOS with no proprietary apps pre-installed also supports Fairphone 4. Fairphones are easily bootloader unlocked to install other ROMs without proprietary apps. See Fairphone#Operating_systems. -- Yae4 (talk) 13:35, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

With same logic there should be factory installed CyanogenMod phones (OnePlus One, YU Yureka, YU Yureka Plus, YU Yuphoria, Andromax Q, BQ Aquaris X5, Lenovo ZUK Z1, Wileyfox Swift, Wileyfox Storm, Alcatel ONETOUCH POP Mirage ) --Zache (talk) 18:24, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Except 70% of those are red links. No comment on whether the vendor for the other 3 are supportive of installing alternative ROMs, but Fairphone is. -- Yae4 (talk) 17:35, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

I didn't mean that they were just supportive of installing alternative ROMs but they were sold with factory-installed CyanogenMod. -- Zache (talk) 00:19, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Definitions for the Open-source mobile phone

I have been thinking that there is least following distinct features which are defining open-source phone, but not all are required at same time.

1. Open hardware schematics (vrt Fairphone, Raspberry pi)
2. Open hardware specifications for components (ie. documentation on how to write drivers for components)
3. Open source bootloader which user can update. (vrt U-Boot, Coreboot or GRUB as second stage bootloader)
4. Unlocked bootloader which can be used for starting a user-defined operating system
5. Published kernel source code AND user can compile new kernel using the kernel source ( Android Kernel with binary blobs)
   • Is kernel version or userland is limited to specific version because binary blobs? (ie. Android Open Source Project and Bionic (software), libhybris and Ubuntu Touch, Nemo Mobile etc)
6. Mainline Linux kernel or another major open branch of it. (etc Armlinux, Mobian kernel)
   • user selectable userland (Glibc mostly, but any user selectable userland which is not defined by binary blobs).
   • Open source operating system: PostmarketOS, Mobian, Arch Linux ARM, Debian, Manjaro ARM, Maemo Leste etc
7. How well device works? (ie. is there missing drivers or features using open source operating system, is device usable at all)
8. Is there open documentation on how to unlock the phone, how to compile the kernel, how to update own firmware?

-- Zache (talk) 06:54, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Fairphone 5 should be added to the table.

Fairphone 5 should be added to the table. 202.7.250.242 (talk) 14:52, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

I added Fairphone 5 -- Zache (talk) 09:08, 16 November 2023 (UTC)